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#1384900 - 10/15/09 06:24 AM How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle
.308Shooter Offline
Former8541

Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 126
Loc: NC
Hello Everyone,

While perusing the forum I came upon a post where I took the following from:

"As far as cleaning, I don't use brushes as per info obtained here although it was a controversial subject. I use the "KG" cleaning system. Occasionally some shooters choice. But based on what I read I needed to do more shooting than cleaning."

This caused some questions, so I tried to so some advance searching on the matter. While it did produce 8 pages of related matter, non of the threads were even remotely titled as such, and I wasn't about to go through every post (If anyone has the link please post it).

Anyway, can anyone give me a brief synopsis on the difference between "shooters choice", and "KG cleaning"? Also, maybe expand a bit more on the last part of that quote "I need to do more shooting than Cleaning"?

Thanks in advance for your input,
Chris
_________________________
A USMC Sniper is a Marine Highly trained in fieldcraft & marksmanship, who delivers LONG range precision rifle fire on selected targets from concealed positions in support of combat operations.

- Textbook definition of a USMC Sniper

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#1385075 - 10/15/09 08:44 AM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: .308Shooter]
steve123 Offline
Chief Warrant Officer

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 2865
Loc: Flagstaff, AZ
Some tips.

Use a bore guide.

It's a good idea to use bolt grease behind bolt lugs and the cam area at back of bolt.

With the warmer cartridges sometimes a ring of carbon will form right in front of the chamber in the rifling.Some JB bore paste will take care of that or fire some Tubb bore conditioner bullets every 300 rounds or so.

If you let the cleaners soak for a little while vs running one patch after the other it might save some land wear.

I shoot some hot chamberings but I only clean once every 150 rounds and never clean up the bore perfectly anymore because there's going to be carbon and copper in the bore the very next time I shoot anyway.

Steve

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#1385138 - 10/15/09 09:27 AM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: steve123]
Red_SC Offline
Red Headed Stepchild

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 3432
Loc: Darlington, South Carolina
Chris,

I'm guessing he's talking about just using different cleaners on patches, without brushes.

KG gun cleaners (great stuff, btw):
https://www.kgcoatings.com/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=24


Shooter's Choice:
http://www.shooters-choice.com/


As for the last line, he's realized that practice and skill matters more than spending an inordinate amount of time keeping his rifle spotless.
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#1385262 - 10/15/09 10:37 AM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: Red_SC]
m1garand30064 Offline
Sergeant

Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 155
Loc: Atlanta, GA
I use a boresnake. I put a little Hopes #9 solvent on the leading end and some sewing machine oil on the trailing end and it cleans up the rifle very nicely in no time at all. Just my 2 cents.

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#1385296 - 10/15/09 10:58 AM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: m1garand30064]
Unsichtbar Offline
Sergeant

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 481
Loc: Texas

You Might not have looked in your search for “For Anal Gun Scrubbers" for a thread on cleaning
www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=770562&page=1


Solvent Test, just a note anything this fellow that goes by kombayotch investigates is first rate bordering on obsession.

www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1121125&page=1

It’s a religious issue options vary with each individual but there are some golden threads of wisdom that you can decide for yourself. My only suggestion is be consistent

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#1385341 - 10/15/09 11:27 AM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: Unsichtbar]
NotAGuru ⊕ Offline
Master Sergeant

Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 2084
Loc: Dillon, MT
KG is the best copper solvent i have ever used followed closely by Wipeout patchout. 150 rounds is a good number some people just shoot till accuracy drops off. Everytime i clean my no comp guns its a few patches then let it sit for a hour of so and a few more till the blue mostly goes away. Then i use a under sized brush with a patch and some jb or issoi paste on it for about 15-20 strokes rotate then 15-20 more. That gets the pesky carbon out of your bore and its a fairly easy way to clean. Like steve unless its a comp gun i never clean all the copper out u just try to get 90% of it. My comp guns never get anymore then 80-100 rounds before they are throughly cleaned. Oh and kroil is a must after i have ran a few dry patches through it i use 2 or 3 with a few drop of kroil to ensure all the cleaners are out and it makes it much easier to clean the next few times.
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#1385446 - 10/15/09 12:33 PM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: Unsichtbar]
kombayotch Offline
Gunnery Sergeant

Registered: 09/20/07
Posts: 1522
Originally Posted By: Unsichtbar

Solvent Test, just a note anything this fellow that goes by kombayotch investigates is first rate bordering on obsession.

www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1121125&page=1


Lol!

I only use KG-12 now for barrel break-in or for de-coppering the bores of friends and relatives with factory tubes. With my regiment of BBS (and KG-2 every few hundred rounds), I don't get any copper buildup now. My reason for going with BBS is that I don't get a first round flyer with it like I do with some of the other stuff (particularly PatchOut).

For copper, KG-12 is simply the best.

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#1385584 - 10/15/09 01:58 PM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: kombayotch]
criver Offline
High Master Palma

Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 1089
Loc: Upper Andersonville TN
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#1385588 - 10/15/09 02:02 PM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: criver]
seaaggie Offline
Staff Sergeant

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 572
Loc: Katy TX
I use straight Wipeout, let it sit for an hour, if still blue, then i give it an overnight.
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#1385693 - 10/15/09 03:04 PM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: seaaggie]
Poke Offline
Gunnery Sergeant

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 1342
Loc: Kabul
I use wipeout on my AR's since I am lazy,

And on the other rifles I use Barnes CR. It works like a champ but you have to stay on top of it or its not pretty. Seems like the more copper in the bore the worse that stuff smells. I have used alot of the others and CR seems to do the best.
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#1385731 - 10/15/09 03:24 PM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: Poke]
LoneWolfUSMC Offline
USMC Scout Sniper

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 6244
Loc: Southern Indiana
I clean as little as possible. When I do, it's a couple of passes with a nylon brush with Hoppes 9. Then a couple of wet patches and some dry patches. I wait a little while between each step to let the solvent work.

I usually get 500 rounds between cleanings. If it starts to open up before that, then I may go ahead and clean it. I do wipe down the bolt and receiver then lube them after every firing.

Militec 1 and TW25 grease are my preferred lubes.
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#1385887 - 10/15/09 04:55 PM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: LoneWolfUSMC]
.308Shooter Offline
Former8541

Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 126
Loc: NC
Thanks everyonen for the feedback... I'm gonna look at those links as well.

Chris
_________________________
A USMC Sniper is a Marine Highly trained in fieldcraft & marksmanship, who delivers LONG range precision rifle fire on selected targets from concealed positions in support of combat operations.

- Textbook definition of a USMC Sniper

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#1385929 - 10/15/09 05:16 PM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: NotAGuru ⊕]
He_Shoot _Me Offline
Devilishly Handsome

Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 949
Loc: No. Cal.
Originally Posted By: NotAGuru ⊕
KG is the best copper solvent i have ever used followed closely by Wipeout patchout. 150 rounds is a good number some people just shoot till accuracy drops off. Everytime i clean my no comp guns its a few patches then let it sit for a hour of so and a few more till the blue mostly goes away. Then i use a under sized brush with a patch and some jb or issoi paste on it for about 15-20 strokes rotate then 15-20 more. That gets the pesky carbon out of your bore and its a fairly easy way to clean. Like steve unless its a comp gun i never clean all the copper out u just try to get 90% of it. My comp guns never get anymore then 80-100 rounds before they are throughly cleaned. Oh and kroil is a must after i have ran a few dry patches through it i use 2 or 3 with a few drop of kroil to ensure all the cleaners are out and it makes it much easier to clean the next few times.


For some reason this method sounds very familiar to me. laugh

-Pat
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#1386836 - 10/16/09 06:18 AM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: He_Shoot _Me]
.308Shooter Offline
Former8541

Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 126
Loc: NC
O.K. I read the "Anal Gun Scrubbers" thread and I have a question. I can understand the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality. I can also understand the theory of not cleaning until accuracy falls off...

But what is hard for me to contemplate is the thought of leaving all that carbon, dust, grit..ETC in the barrel for extended periods of time. Even if accuracy is still acceptable, the later has to be bad for the barrel, right?

I'm former USMC so as you can imagine, I am very anal about all my things, so my 5,000 rifle would be no different. Personally it would be extremely hard for me to deviate from cleaning the weapon each time I shoot (I do use KG products by the way).

However, if real proof... not theory can be proven regarding the above, I would be forced to chance my protocol. Can anyone confirm/deny the above with FACTUAL information?

Thanks in advance for your further input,
Chris
_________________________
A USMC Sniper is a Marine Highly trained in fieldcraft & marksmanship, who delivers LONG range precision rifle fire on selected targets from concealed positions in support of combat operations.

- Textbook definition of a USMC Sniper

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#1386907 - 10/16/09 07:15 AM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: .308Shooter]
Dr. Phil Offline
Staff Sergeant

Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 817
Loc: NE North Carolina
FWIW, check out the GA Precision recomendations
http://www.gaprecision.net/ga-precision-download.html

Since most of the top competitive shooters use their product, their instructions may be worth a read.
I have since switched to Boretech Eliminator and have cut my cleaning times down significantly.

YMMV
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don't tell them where they know the fish."
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#1386910 - 10/16/09 07:15 AM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: .308Shooter]
badkarma85 Offline
Sergeant

Registered: 11/27/08
Posts: 420
Loc: Fort Lauderdale,FL USA
Whats everyones thoughts on using bore snakes
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#1386934 - 10/16/09 07:34 AM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: .308Shooter]
criver Offline
High Master Palma

Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 1089
Loc: Upper Andersonville TN
A 308 with a quality barrel can go 500 plus rounds between cleaning with remarkable accuracy. I have completely shot out 5 barrels on my Palma rifles cleaning every 700/750 rounds. Twice I have let it go over 1000 rounds and accuracy was falling off (X count was dropping) However I have shot nothing but Sierra 2155 SMK's and Varget powder. Lately I have been testing some different bullets/powders, you really need to stay on top of your cleaning with a program change.


Edited by criver (10/16/09 07:36 AM)
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#1389173 - 10/17/09 01:03 PM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: .308Shooter]
LoneWolfUSMC Offline
USMC Scout Sniper

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 6244
Loc: Southern Indiana
Originally Posted By: .308Shooter
.......if real proof... not theory can be proven regarding the above, I would be forced to chance my protocol. Can anyone confirm/deny the above with FACTUAL information?


The proof is in the pudding.

Clean your rifle spotless. Shoot four or five, five shot groups.

Don't clean it for the next 500 rounds. Shoot groups every 100 rounds or so.

See for yourself.

Honestly if you have the ability to fire foulers/sighters before every shooting session then it really doesn't matter. I don't have that ability. I need to know EXACTLY where that first shot is going to go. If my rifle was perfectly zeroed when i put it up, why would I want to change that by altering the condition of the bore?

I understand the desire to scrub it clean. I was indoctrinated into that in the Marine Corps as well. However the Corps has ruined many rifles.

I don't feel that PROPERLY cleaning your rifle after every range trip is going to harm it any. I just feel that it's wasted time and then wasted ammo to get it back to it's most accurate state.

As far as the carbon being in the barrel. There really is no difference between me firing 20 rounds on five different range sessions or firing 100 rounds in one range session. The amount of carbon in the barrel will be the same.

I just completed an LE Advanced school. I fired 413 rounds while I was there. I did not clean the barrel at all. I did clean the action and lube the bolt religiously. I shot a perfect score on every qualification, while many who cleaned their rifle the night before blew the cold bore shot.

I am a believer in a fouled bore.

Please note that a fouled bore and a dirty rifle are two VASTLY different animals.
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#1389639 - 10/17/09 06:43 PM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: LoneWolfUSMC]
coues7 Offline
Sergeant

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 455
Loc: White Mountains AZ
great thread, great info.
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#1389691 - 10/17/09 07:15 PM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: LoneWolfUSMC]
.308Shooter Offline
Former8541

Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 126
Loc: NC
Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC
Originally Posted By: .308Shooter
.......if real proof... not theory can be proven regarding the above, I would be forced to chance my protocol. Can anyone confirm/deny the above with FACTUAL information?


The proof is in the pudding.

Clean your rifle spotless. Shoot four or five, five shot groups.

Don't clean it for the next 500 rounds. Shoot groups every 100 rounds or so.

See for yourself.

Honestly if you have the ability to fire foulers/sighters before every shooting session then it really doesn't matter. I don't have that ability. I need to know EXACTLY where that first shot is going to go. If my rifle was perfectly zeroed when i put it up, why would I want to change that by altering the condition of the bore?

I understand the desire to scrub it clean. I was indoctrinated into that in the Marine Corps as well. However the Corps has ruined many rifles.

I don't feel that PROPERLY cleaning your rifle after every range trip is going to harm it any. I just feel that it's wasted time and then wasted ammo to get it back to it's most accurate state.

As far as the carbon being in the barrel. There really is no difference between me firing 20 rounds on five different range sessions or firing 100 rounds in one range session. The amount of carbon in the barrel will be the same.

I just completed an LE Advanced school. I fired 413 rounds while I was there. I did not clean the barrel at all. I did clean the action and lube the bolt religiously. I shot a perfect score on every qualification, while many who cleaned their rifle the night before blew the cold bore shot.

I am a believer in a fouled bore.

Please note that a fouled bore and a dirty rifle are two VASTLY different animals.


I totally understand and agree with what you have previous stated concerning cold bore shots and maintaining the barrel state.

My situation varies from yours right now. Unfortunately I'm not able to shoot as often as I'd like. Realistically it would take a month or so for me to get 100+ rounds down the barrel, and take 2-3 different range days to do so. In my situation, would it still be realistic to leave the carbon in there that long between cleanings? I would think that it would be a royal pain in the butt to get out once you finally decided to clean the bore.... Your thoughts?
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A USMC Sniper is a Marine Highly trained in fieldcraft & marksmanship, who delivers LONG range precision rifle fire on selected targets from concealed positions in support of combat operations.

- Textbook definition of a USMC Sniper

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#1389763 - 10/17/09 07:57 PM Re: How To Properly Clean Your Precision RIfle [Re: .308Shooter]
LoneWolfUSMC Offline
USMC Scout Sniper

Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 6244
Loc: Southern Indiana
If you are shooting every couple of weeks, then it's not a big deal.

If you have to put it up for a month or two, then I would clean the bore.

Let accuracy be your guide. It doesn't matter what the barrel looks like. Just how it shoots.
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