Okay, I have to revisit the posting rules for Sniper's Hide specifically regarding 3 shot groups.

I know early on I said we can do 3 shot groups if they are beyond 100 yards, but I am gonna call myself out on this and change the rules.

From this day forward I am deleting any 3 shot groups period, and especially any groups that are groups within a group.

So here are the revised rules for posting groups on Sniper's Hide.


1. You must show the Entire target unedited.

2. Inside 300 yards you must post at least (5) 5 shot groups that can be identified on target or you may post (1) 10 shot group for record.

3. Anything beyond 300 yards a minimum of 5 shots is required, also please adhere to rule #1.

4. The group shot rules can be bypassed only with a target using 10 or more 1/2" dots with one individual round on each dot for a minimum of 10 shots.

5. Shots on steel can only be used for demonstration purposes and not as part of an exhibition of group shooting. These images must be in conjunction with rifles, optics, etc... they cannot be standalone.

6. Groups shots must be within 2 MOA of the aiming point, otherwise I consider the shots a miss.


This is my effort to help everyone strive to be a better shooter and to shun mediocrity. At Sniper's Hide we want to set the standard of what shooting good groups means, and we encourage those who are practicing to display their groups especially if you are working on improving your skills.

Any group currently posted on the site will be grandfathered in, however moving forward I ask the membership to be vigilant in enforcing the group shot rules and regulations. I think you'll thank me in the long run and we'll help raise the bar for everyone.

4. The group shot rules can be bypassed only with a target using 10 or more 1/2" dots with one individual round on each dot for a minimum of 10 shots.


Pls forgive a TARD, but does THIS also have to be at 300 +?.

No, it can be at 100 yards, see my dot drill target...

Good deal.

Good, I have printed off a few................

Thank You. I'm happy to support anything that keeps the quality of the posts as high as possible.

Lowlight, is there any acception for posting 3 or even five shot groups without shooting it 5 times if it is regards to load development?

No, why do we want to see your load development ?

If you're gonna develop it and you want to post it, a 10 shot group or (5) 5 shot groups.

Roger that.... I have not gotten into load development yet because i am still overseas but planned on posting my results when i come home for critism and tips on which loads and such... yada yada.... Guess i will just have to make 10 of each powder charge and post results from that.
.

Where is the dot targets that you guys are talking about..Please post a link?

+1 on a link for the targets. I have been getting my stuff from 6mm br website.
SS

http://homepage.mac.com/WebObjects/FileS...=US&lang=en


Rules for posting group target pics:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=779314#Post779314

G.A. Precision model 700 in .223 10 shot group, including CBS, @ 100 yards. Prone with bipod & a RedTac bean bag at the rear.
.520" group

heres one for ya. one 10 shot group and 4 9 shot groups all at 200 yards.

Lowlight,
NRA long range F-class matches are normally documented via the score cards due to the size of the target and the fact that target pullers tape the holes over when marking the shots. I always ask the scorers to put a dot on the score card to document where on the clock the hits were. Later, I plot the targets to scale with hits numbered (15 shots for 800 and 900 yards and 20 shots for 1000 yards). Is this Ok with you? I could just post a pic of a score card, but it is much more usefull to see how the shots progressed as the barrel fouled and heated up. Thanks!

If you're blaming the barrel -- that it is fouling and heating up, for your changes, you're not being objective about your shooting, because it is not the Barrel.

My experiences have been different. When shooting br its not me and i will put money on that. There isnt a way that you can screw it up that bad when the gun is tracking like its on rails and its about completely impossible to flinch on a 2 ounce trigger. So why does my first 2 shots always hit low? What happens when the barrel heats up? Have you tested this theory over a chrono to see what happens?

Sounds like you have a bad barrel... what make?

I cant bad mouth anyone like that on the net....

Sure test it over a chronograph, and tell me if every single shot the velocity goes UP... because I have yet to see a constant increase, I see a varying set of numbers.

I have tested it, posted it online as well. Heated the gun, heated the ammo, shoot 20 shots in 2 Minutes and watched me center punch the target... no shift. There are some guns that shift, but I think that is an issue with the gun, barrel, or a combination of the two, where possibly the threads are not right and the heat tightens it in... but that problem is usually very isolated, more times than not, it's the shooter. People think they shoot better than they do, and most are just looking for an excuse that isn't shooter error.


I have absolutely seen people screw up at 2 oz trigger, so that is a possibility as well. Trigger is the # 1 cause of shooter errors, I have also seen a 40 inch variation at 700 yards because of breathing, so if 14 thousands of an inch under the scope base will move the impact of the round more than 15 inches at 100 yards, imagine what errors we cause will do.

Frank,

I recently bought a nice cheap hunting rifle, that I've been doing some load development with lately. It has a pencil thin sporter barrel and during my load development I have noticed that after 3 shots, the barrel is pretty freaking hot (300 Win Mag) and the next rounds will move away from the group.

In your above statement about the heat of the barrel not affecting the rounds, does this also apply to the thin hunting barrels or just the fatter bull barrels usually seen on tactical rifles?

I've got a factory barrel that, if cleaned and scrubbed, the CBS will be 1" off to the left at 100 yrds.

If I put 60 rds through it and go home and leave it alone and go BACK, that CBS is, and stays on target each and every time.

My rifledoesn't like to be cleaned. It could be me flinching too though..

Franks right, most any decent rifle, even a hunting rifle will shoot a tight group or put a first shot on target each time.

My hunting rifle always puts the first round or two right where I'm aiming it. But by shot #4....the barrel is pretty dang hot, & the next shot wonders. I was curious about his comments on a heating barrel not having any effect on the bullets even with a thin barrel.

Anybody who feels they have to prove something by posting "how small of a group they can shoot" will be deemed to have a small penis and are trying to make up for it in other ways.
Nobody really cares, think about it, how many times have you looked at a group that someone posted and actually gave a shit?
The only person that should care what you or your rifle can do is YOU.

Here is the video, decide for yourself if you like.

The video isn't showing up & the link ain't working for me....

Yes i agree with you Frank. Im not saying that its gonna be their with every gun. The short fat contours that you use are gonna help keep that first shot right in their. I know that 95% of the cold bore varience that people complain about is their own fault. But when i have helped leo and other people setup up guns its just something that you want to take in consideration and check for but its something you cant let effect how well you take the shot. When you want to put that first shot right their at 1000+ yards its something that you want to figure out if your gun does or does not. I also have to remember to keep in mind if its a clean cold bore or not as well. I just want to say its not something you want to forget about or dismiss completely. I agree if your shooting tactical matches, just plinking, or hunting cleaning it before the accuracy goes away is like.... wiping your ass before you shit. (I agree with George thats one of my favorite quotes i have heard on here!) I understand you must make sure when you are teaching a new shooter to not let small petty crap like that get mentally in the way of making a quality shot every time!

Can anyone else see the video that Frank posted? I've tried to see it on 3 different computers through out today on 2 different internet providers.....I ain't seeing nothing.

Anyone...??

+ 1 same here??.......what gives??

Ya'll try this link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UZ-mApuUoM