Sniper's Hide Logo
Header Ad's
Site Supporters


Sponsored Ads help Sniper's Hide
Newest Members
sm0k3r, j27, urbanlychallengd, Joe Fitz, jc98ss
42195 Registered Users
Support Site Sponsors
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#1416167 - 11/01/09 09:32 PM Lapping required??
Amacron Offline
Lance Corporal

Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 39
Loc: Kentucky
I am about to purchase a NF 5.5x22x50 nxs, with badger rings. Is lapping the rings recommended??

Thanks in advance,

Top
Our Sponsors 2nd Post
Sponsored Links

Sponsor Our Sponsors



Ask about Advertising on Sniper's Hide
#1416183 - 11/01/09 09:44 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: Amacron]
LibertyOptics Offline
Master Sergeant

Registered: 01/20/04
Posts: 2257
Loc: Kalispell, Montana
I don't think lapping is "automatically" necessary or required, and Badger doesn't think so either. Still, many customers swear by it, and it does have its proponents.

I think lapping should be treated as a solution to a problem, rather than a predetermined treatment.

I'm sure others will chime in.

Good luck,

Scott
_________________________
Scott Berish
Liberty Optics LLC
An Official Vendor of Sniper's Hide.
www.libertyoptics.com
"See Better, Shoot Better"
406-890-2714
If no answer 352-572-1469
Scott@LibertyOptics.com

Top
#1416313 - 11/01/09 11:54 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: Amacron]
RADcustom Offline
Honey Dipper

Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 1555
Loc: NW Louisiana
I mount the rings to the base and set the scope in the bottoms. If it feels like the scope doesn't sit in the rings without sticking then I lap. YMMV
_________________________
The #1 Man in the #2 Business.

Top
#1416329 - 11/02/09 12:45 AM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: RADcustom]
BOLTRIPPER Offline
Super Bagman

Registered: 09/25/01
Posts: 13181
Loc: Dallas Texas USA
you're a pilot....you got the touch......d what RAD says....

Top
#1416642 - 11/02/09 08:10 AM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: BOLTRIPPER]
Longshot38 Offline
Staff Sergeant

Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 508
Loc: Montgomery, TX
Personally I lap every set of rings that I get. I see no point is unnecessarily risking damage to my expensive optics out of laziness or being cheap. So my suggestion is this:

I don't care where I got the rings or how much I paid for them, I'm still going to lap them.

Top
#1416680 - 11/02/09 08:32 AM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: Longshot38]
myerfire Offline
Sergeant

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 269
Loc: San Francisco
I'm with Longshot on this one, I lap all my rings. It doesn't take long and it's cheap insureance and I know it's perfect.
myerfire

Top
#1416710 - 11/02/09 08:54 AM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: Longshot38]
M.45 Offline
Gunnery Sergeant

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 1102
Loc: SOCAL USA
I lap all of my rings. It's easy and then I know I every set of rings will fit perfectly.

After you lap them, I'd recommend that you mark them so you know which top half goes with it's lapped bottom half ring so when you take the rings off to swap a scope out you can reassemble them and know which piece goes where. Lapping is unidirectional.



I put a score across the left side, two on the front set, one on the back.

(yeah that score mark is ugly but after a number of scope and rifle swaps, it's earned it's place)

Top
#1416728 - 11/02/09 09:07 AM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: M.45]
BOLTRIPPER Offline
Super Bagman

Registered: 09/25/01
Posts: 13181
Loc: Dallas Texas USA
....am i seeing things, or are that a ring mark just to the left of the red oval ?

Top
#1416751 - 11/02/09 09:18 AM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: Longshot38]
Skunkworks Offline
Head Skunk

Registered: 09/07/09
Posts: 764
Loc: Columbia Falls, MT
Originally Posted By: Longshot38
Personally I lap every set of rings that I get. I see no point is unnecessarily risking damage to my expensive optics out of laziness or being cheap. So my suggestion is this:

I don't care where I got the rings or how much I paid for them, I'm still going to lap them.


+1....
_________________________
Mike
www.undergroundsw.com

Top
#1416757 - 11/02/09 09:21 AM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: Skunkworks]
JRose Online   content
itwas always Fumbles

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 6204
Loc: Back in BHam!!!
I've never lapped rings, or felt the need to. I have always used good rings though, so maybe I've been spoiled.
_________________________



Top
#1416758 - 11/02/09 09:22 AM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: BOLTRIPPER]
M.45 Offline
Gunnery Sergeant

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 1102
Loc: SOCAL USA
Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER
....am i seeing things, or are that a ring mark just to the left of the red oval ?


It was a superficial rubbing mark, wiped right off. The NF coating is really tough tho prone to leave light scuff marks when rubbed up against things.

Top
#1416762 - 11/02/09 09:22 AM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: M.45]
HDC-Deadly Offline
Chief Warrant Officer

Registered: 03/02/09
Posts: 4425
Loc: Bham Ala
yeah i have never lapped any of my rings, i dont feel that the Seekins need it.
_________________________

Top
#1416805 - 11/02/09 09:43 AM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: HDC-Deadly]
427Cobra Offline
TEAM Bukakke!

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 6315
Loc: Sanger, TEXAS!
I lap, it's cheap easy insurance.
_________________________
If Your Gonna Be Dumb You Gotta Be Tough!

Top
#1416827 - 11/02/09 09:57 AM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: 427Cobra]
7mmRM Offline
General Nuisance

Registered: 07/02/04
Posts: 10285
Loc: Celestine, Indiana
Originally Posted By: 427Cobra
I lap, it's cheap easy insurance.


Same here.
_________________________
Friends dont let friends listen to dumb sh!t...

TEAM B MEMBER

Top
#1416845 - 11/02/09 10:07 AM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: 7mmRM]
shooting4life Offline
Sergeant

Registered: 12/20/07
Posts: 384
Loc: Bay Area, CA
I only lap if the scope sticks when set in the bottom rings mounted on the base. I also mark my tops to match my bottom. A small F and R punch on the inside flat face of the rings keeps them straight and you would not be able to tell unless you knew to look for the mark.

Top
#1416861 - 11/02/09 10:17 AM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: shooting4life]
okiefired Offline
Master Sergeant

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 2476
Loc: The Reservation (OK)
I dont understand only checking the ring bottoms, the tops are just as likely to cause problems. I agree with Scott on this though. Check for problems, if there are none then no fix is needed. Its not a matter of laziness.

okie
_________________________
"In God we trust. Everyone else keep your hands where I can see them"

Top
#1416994 - 11/02/09 11:33 AM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: okiefired]
SPDGG Offline
What ???

Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 3110
Loc: So.CA/USA
fwiw: I'm going off memory......... crazy

I'd mic the main scope tube on the NF. Believe NF are on the larger OD size than most and most that knew in the past did lap their rings = Cheap Insurance. I do recall lapping mine when I had a NF.

Someone recall, have a link, or can back my info. on this, please do.

"I believe/assuming, again, not 100%"...Seekins makes rings that are for NF scopes. I would PM Mr. Glen Seekins first at see.


Have a great one

_________________________
"To each their own"


www.rdprecision.net

Randy "HateCA" Cain of R&D Precision can be contacted at link above, Thank you.

Top
#1417074 - 11/02/09 12:26 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: SPDGG]
kyle1974 Offline
Sergeant

Registered: 09/30/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Houston
I lap mine... it only takes a few minutes and it certainly works if anything is off by a few thousandths of an inch in the alignement.

Top
#1417090 - 11/02/09 12:38 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: kyle1974]
boone Offline
***Super Civ***

Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 547
Loc: West Virginia
It doesn't matter who the maker of the rings are. Some will require lapping some will not. Even my NF rings had to be lapped, very minimal but lapped none the less. I find it humorous that people will pay $1000-$3000 for a scope $100+ for rings but not $30-$70 for a lapping kit. JMO

Top
#1417097 - 11/02/09 12:42 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: kyle1974]
LFOD1776 Offline
Staff Sergeant

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 794
Loc: Austin, TX
I love it. This argument is just like so many others -- like barrel break-in.

If you've got a high-quality one-piece base, and high-quality rings, then lapping makes absolutely no sense. Lapping removes any finish inside the rings (losing strength if they're aluminum, and corrosion-resistance if they're steel), and leaves a nice sharp edge where there was once a bevel. It does nothing to keep a scope securely in place that proper torque would fail to accomplish.

Lapping makes sense used in conjuntion with with two-piece bases, if the rings really don't line up. Ideally, then, the rings should be re-finished -- or simply silver soldered to the scope. Think German claw mount.


Edited by LFOD1776 (11/02/09 12:42 PM)
_________________________
NRA Life Member

Top
#1417103 - 11/02/09 12:45 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: LFOD1776]
BOLTRIPPER Offline
Super Bagman

Registered: 09/25/01
Posts: 13181
Loc: Dallas Texas USA
you know....a great person to ask is Chris at SWFA....he sees all kinds of things....from fuck-ups to no-brainers....after all....its his business.

Top
#1417106 - 11/02/09 12:47 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: LFOD1776]
7mmRM Offline
General Nuisance

Registered: 07/02/04
Posts: 10285
Loc: Celestine, Indiana
Originally Posted By: LFOD1776


If you've got a high-quality one-piece base, and high-quality rings, then lapping makes absolutely no sense.


Its often not the base and rings thats the problem, its the reciever they get mounted to.
_________________________
Friends dont let friends listen to dumb sh!t...

TEAM B MEMBER

Top
#1417135 - 11/02/09 01:11 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: 7mmRM]
M.45 Offline
Gunnery Sergeant

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 1102
Loc: SOCAL USA
Originally Posted By: LFOD1776


If you've got a high-quality one-piece base, and high-quality rings, then lapping makes absolutely no sense.


Not true.

Top
#1417210 - 11/02/09 01:51 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: M.45]
LawtonMachineLLC Offline
Quality Gun Products

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 71
Loc: Dillon MT
Burris signature series zee rings. Then no lapping is ever required. And they are a good price too....
_________________________
Quality Through Design and Craftsmanship.

Top
#1417223 - 11/02/09 02:02 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: LawtonMachineLLC]
JRose Online   content
itwas always Fumbles

Registered: 07/10/07
Posts: 6204
Loc: Back in BHam!!!
Now don't take this out of context here, because it's just a question from someone who's never lapped rings, but has anyone ever seen an improvement after lapping rings? I'm talking a good set of rings. If so, what was the improvement? Groups get better? Zero wander, or scope slip before lapping? Or is it a procedure just done to not mar the scope body?
_________________________



Top
#1417241 - 11/02/09 02:13 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: JRose]
Rafael Offline
General Nuisance

Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 8143
Loc: Virginia Beach, Virginia
Just the latter, for me. Didn't want to mess up the scope tube.
Of course I use $50.00/pair rings. I can buy 48 pairs for what my SN-3 would cost to replace.
_________________________
$
RAF
"I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
-Ayn Rand

Top
#1417247 - 11/02/09 02:17 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: JRose]
RADcustom Offline
Honey Dipper

Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 1555
Loc: NW Louisiana
Originally Posted By: JRose
a procedure just done to not mar the scope body?



Yes, and to remove any stress on the scope that may cause it to fail.

I have felt the scope "stick" with Badger rings and a one piece Badger base. So, it doesn't matter what setup you use, some will need it and some won't.
_________________________
The #1 Man in the #2 Business.

Top
#1417259 - 11/02/09 02:22 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: JRose]
M.45 Offline
Gunnery Sergeant

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 1102
Loc: SOCAL USA
Originally Posted By: JRose
Now don't take this out of context here, because it's just a question from someone who's never lapped rings, but has anyone ever seen an improvement after lapping rings? I'm talking a good set of rings. If so, what was the improvement? Groups get better? Zero wander, or scope slip before lapping? Or is it a procedure just done to not mar the scope body?



Lapping isn't one of those make or break procedures (like bedding an action). I do it primarily so there's more contact surface from the rings to the scope so there's less chance of it slipping in the rings if I clunk it on something. And it ensures there are no areas that will pinch the scope tube, leaving marks.

Top
#1417263 - 11/02/09 02:23 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: 7mmRM]
LFOD1776 Offline
Staff Sergeant

Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 794
Loc: Austin, TX
Originally Posted By: 7mmRM
Originally Posted By: LFOD1776


If you've got a high-quality one-piece base, and high-quality rings, then lapping makes absolutely no sense.


Its often not the base and rings thats the problem, its the reciever they get mounted to.


How is that possible? If the base won't fit right to the receiver, how would lapping the rings help you out?
_________________________
NRA Life Member

Top
#1417313 - 11/02/09 02:40 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: 7mmRM]
Aries64 Offline
Gunnery Sergeant

Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 1688
Loc: Los Angeles, California
Originally Posted By: 7mmRM
Originally Posted By: LFOD1776


If you've got a high-quality one-piece base, and high-quality rings, then lapping makes absolutely no sense.


Its often not the base and rings thats the problem, its the reciever they get mounted to.

This is "true". However, if the receiver is the underlying problem it would be better (although almost assuredly more expensive and time-consuming) to have the problem with the receiver solved, rather than ruining good rings by lapping them. Not only are you sticking a band-aide on top of the real problem but the rings are now specific to that base and receiver.

Keith
_________________________
"Inferior products and service are foolish economy"

Top
#1417326 - 11/02/09 02:45 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: Aries64]
The Mechanic Offline
General Nuisance

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 5104
Loc: San Diego County Ca.
had to lap my Badger Max-50 ultra highs on my Windrunner with my Nightforce. The lapping was perfectly uniform all the way around so I know the rings were true, just a little undersized
_________________________
"Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" —Patrick Henry

Top
#1418035 - 11/02/09 08:12 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: LFOD1776]
Dinosdeuce Offline
Sergeant

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 81
Loc: Peyton ,Colorado
Originally Posted By: LFOD1776
Originally Posted By: 7mmRM
Originally Posted By: LFOD1776


If you've got a high-quality one-piece base, and high-quality rings, then lapping makes absolutely no sense.


Its often not the base and rings thats the problem, its the reciever they get mounted to.


How is that possible? If the base won't fit right to the receiver, how would lapping the rings help you out?



If using a 1 piece base, you should check to see if it sits on the receiver without and rocking. If the front is not in the same plane, when you torque the base it will stress the scope. If so you should bed the base and lap the rings. This should help alleviate stress placed on the scope body and provide a more secure grip.
_________________________
Dino
USAF Ret
"Don't Suck" quoted from Brig Gen Welsh

Top
#1419871 - 11/03/09 07:29 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: Dinosdeuce]
TRON Offline
Sergeant

Registered: 10/28/07
Posts: 239
Loc: central Iowa
I have never lapped a set but I might on my nest build just for shits and giggles

Top
#1419877 - 11/03/09 07:31 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: Dinosdeuce]
7mmRM Offline
General Nuisance

Registered: 07/02/04
Posts: 10285
Loc: Celestine, Indiana
Originally Posted By: Dinosdeuce
Originally Posted By: LFOD1776
Originally Posted By: 7mmRM
Originally Posted By: LFOD1776


If you've got a high-quality one-piece base, and high-quality rings, then lapping makes absolutely no sense.


Its often not the base and rings thats the problem, its the reciever they get mounted to.


How is that possible? If the base won't fit right to the receiver, how would lapping the rings help you out?



If using a 1 piece base, you should check to see if it sits on the receiver without and rocking. If the front is not in the same plane, when you torque the base it will stress the scope. If so you should bed the base and lap the rings. This should help alleviate stress placed on the scope body and provide a more secure grip.




Right on the money.
_________________________
Friends dont let friends listen to dumb sh!t...

TEAM B MEMBER

Top
#1422230 - 11/05/09 04:57 AM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: 7mmRM]
REMF_95 Offline
Sergeant

Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 91
Loc: The Woodlands, TX
I just installed a set of 1" TPS steel rings on the factory two-piece Weaver base system that comes on the Sako A7.

Despite being good quality rings, the scope did bind in the front ring, and I figured it was a problem with base alignment.

Phil at TPS directed me to a product that seems pretty cool if you are averse to lapping. I chose to lap the rings and did not purchase the alignment bar, so I offer this without endorsement.

http://www.tpsproducts.com/product_info.php?cPath=10&products_id=30

Top
#1422847 - 11/05/09 12:54 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: REMF_95]
boone Offline
***Super Civ***

Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 547
Loc: West Virginia
Anyone who owns a NF read you manual. Bet it says something about lapping.

Top
#1423059 - 11/05/09 03:15 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: boone]
TheOneTwo Offline
Sergeant

Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 191
Loc: Utah
IOR says the same thing.

Top
#1423854 - 11/05/09 08:39 PM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: boone]
HomeSlice Offline
Sergeant

Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 138
Loc: IN, USA
Originally Posted By: boone
Anyone who owns a NF read you manual. Bet it says something about lapping.


Something like.... what?

Thanks,
-Slice

Top
#1424377 - 11/06/09 08:01 AM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: HomeSlice]
mavrick10_2000 Offline
Gunnery Sergeant

Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 1032
Loc: Oklahoma
Yep pages 7-10

Top
#1424427 - 11/06/09 08:36 AM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: mavrick10_2000]
RicosRevenge Offline
Sergeant

Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 207
Loc: D/FW
Nightforce Manual

Originally Posted By: Nightforce_Manual
Most production rifle actions or ring and base combinations are not manufactured accurately enough to ensure proper alignment out of the box. After properly securing bases and rings to the action, alignment and compression of the rings is required prior to mounting the riflescope. To fulfill this requirement a 30mm lapping bar kit is available from Nightforce or other suppliers of precision shooting products. This lapping bar kit consists of a steel bar 30mm in diameter with a handle attached and a nonimbedding lapping compound. This tool is used to remove unnecessary material from the lower halves of the rings eliminating misalignment. This procedure allows both rings to align with one another, thus creating a stress-free platform for the riflescope.
Step One
With bases and lower halves of the rings securely mounted to the rifle, mount the 30mm steel lapping bar and tighten top ring
halves. This procedure will cause the rings to compress and take set to the lapping bar instead of the tube body of the riflescope.
Do not use the riflescope in place of the steel lapping bar.
Step Two
Remove the lapping bar and apply lapping compound to the lower ring halves. Perform lapping procedure until a maximum of 75% of
the surface area has been lapped of the lower ring halves. (Note: or until the bar moves freely. i.e. no binding halves.)
Step Three
Remove the lapping bar and clean all surfaces with alcohol or other solvent to ensure an oil free surface.

I do it "just cause..." if that makes me wrong, I can live with that.



Edited by RicosRevenge (11/06/09 08:37 AM)

Top
#1424444 - 11/06/09 08:48 AM Re: Lapping required?? [Re: RicosRevenge]
boone Offline
***Super Civ***

Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 547
Loc: West Virginia
I will also mention NF does not recommend lapping Uni-Mounts.

Top

Footer Ad's (Reply Box )


Moderator:  Chiller, jasonk, Lowlight, Mike, Rob01 
Shout Box

Sponsor Square
Forum Stats
42195 Members
32 Forums
80671 Topics
1016609 Posts

Max Online: 2410 @ 08:53 PM
Who's Online
291 registered (***Ronin***, 1000yard, 1865, 30 gibbs, 73 invisible), 548 Guests and 113 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Sniper's Hide Photo Gallery
Girls & Guns
Something you want to see, then something you dont
Great View
Arpaflage in the desert

Footer Ad's (Bottom)