I am looking at building a 7mm rifle and have narrowed it down to three possible chamberings. I am looking for reasonable barrel life and good case(Powder) effeciency. Most importantly I am looking for it to be a hammer. I am planning on pushing a 180 gr VLD at 2950 or so FPS. I have read most of the articles from 6mmbr.com but what do you think?

7mm Rem SAUM
7mm WSM
7mm Rem Mag

Thanks for the advice guys.

If you are worried about barrel life I would think about .280 or .280 AI.

7 Mag gets my vote. It holds more powder, and the brass selection is much better. 7WSM is a good choice as well, but you may have magazine length issues with the heavier/longer bullets. Magnum cases and long barrel life don't go hand in hand, but they shoot bigger bullets pretty fast.

7wsm Gets my vote, absolute laser with decent barrel life and moderate recoil.

.280 and 7mm-08 get my votes

A HDY Custom factory hunting load .280 139gr SST load departs at 3000fps, and will stay supersonic out to 1kyd and very respectably outshoots my best handloads in both my .280's an R77 and an R77V. I seriously doubt that anything more thoroughly terminal would be needed; but if so, your 180 VLD's would definitely fill the bill.

The 7-08 will do at least as well as the .308 out to 1Kyd. The 7mm Nosler 120gr Ballistic Tip is one helluva bullet for both game and paper, and the 175gr VLD's are absolute cruise missiles.

Please note that both of these bullets/chamberings are suitible for both paper and meat.

Greg

Sounds like you need a 284 shehane.

My shooting partner toasted his 7mm RSUM premium cut barrel after 570 Rds. He did not help extend the life by hot loads, over cleaning and it has been suggested his choice of powder. The barrel maker though it might have been a metal issue also and replaced the barrel. However after speaking to others and several barrel mfg concluded that if he got 1500 rds out of it that would be good. This rifle is for 1000 yd F class to give you an idea of accuracy requirements. At present he is shooting a two barrels test, one barrel as is and the other he is going to have MELONITE® nitrocarburizing applied and see if that extends the life.

He doesn't need a 284 Shehane. Noone does, you must have been at the long range hunting match this weekend and got whooped by the Shehane .... I did too

Another vote for the Shehane, my barrel should be delivered around Christmas time.

I am curious, what do you consider toasted? Did the barrel go from say 0.5 MOA to 1.5 MOA or worst?

Lands caterpillar heat checked, rounded and could not shoot a minute or a 1 1/2 at 100. At 1000 yds looked like someone had shot the target with a shotgun loaded with buck shot. He normally is shoots in the 190s with a good x count, 5 inch x ring F class target.

That ass whooopin" just made me realize how much more my 6mm drifts at 1000yds as compared to the 284. (58" vs. 80")

For the speeds you want a 7 WSM would be great. 7-300WSM as well

I get 2860 fps at sea level with my 280 Ackley and 180 VLds

I have a 7/08 Ackley that should be here in a couple weeks. I plan on running the 168 Vlds. I hope to get 2775 to 2800 with it.

Both should have great barrel life!!!

How far are you going to shoot?

Want to be able to have a rifle that will compete in 1000 yard matches. But if I wanted to stretch it out to say 1500 that might be the high end. So I would say about 800-1500 yards.

How much does that make a difference??

7mmRM gets my vote.

Some cartridge that make it to 1000 yards will not always make it to 1500 yards.
I am looking for something similar.
Here is something that may help:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=380958

If you are getting the rifle built by a gunsmith and reload then my advice is:

Long action and 284 Win loaded long. Use Lapua 6.5X284 Norma brass.

You can get the Shehane version if you want to pay extra for the reloading dies. Easier route is to buy VV N560 and get the speed what you want with the 180 VLDs. No real need to tinker Shehane chambering + RL17. BTW you can always opem up the chamber and dies to Shehane if the bug keeps getting to you. The other way does not work.

If you want to be able to buy ammo from the store then consider 7 Rem mag. You can buy ammo for it anywhere.

General rant from the other 7mm cartridges:

7 WSM is a little bit more difficult to get everywhere than 7mm RM and you can get proper brass only from Win. a 7/300WSM would be wiser and you could use Nosler, Norma, Win etc. 300 WSM brass. 7 SAUM is again on the fringe. Brass from Remington but does anyone else make it ? Norma or maybe Hornayd, I do not know.

.280 or .280 AI will of course work too but you will end up buying Lapua brass anyway. This time only 30-06. I think .284 Win is a better cartridge when loaded long than .280 AI.

You guessed right: I am in the middle of getting a .284 Win Long action getting built. In Finland 6.5X284 Lapua brass is easier to get than 7 WSM. The cost is about the same.

By the term loaded long you mean what?

He means that you load the bullets in such a way to maximize powder capacity, and you don't care about the OAL other than for consistency.

For Example.

308 Win has a book listed max COL of 2.82" I believe. "Loaded long" you can put heavier bullets into it and load it to 2.95-3.00" and get the extra powder in there as well as get the bullet up to the lands as you want.

No need to get real fancy with it. The 7mm RM and WSM will get the job done without fire forming or have to resize the brass from different calibers.

+1 on the 7mm RM, When I wanted to step up from the .308 everything I looked at said the 7mm family of cartridges were GTG for the shooting I wanted to do. I ended up with a 7mag and have enjoyed it. Theres lots of bullet options and good brass is available for the 7mag.

is the long cse of the 7mm Rem Mag less effecient than some of the other "short and fat cases"???

That's a common claim, and so is the "less inherently accurate" claim. Personally, other than things like the 9.3x74R I tend to discount that idea.

The 308 vs. 30-06 debate flares on here all the time, yet when people like MontanaMarine show back to back group tests his 06 shoots the same as his 308 does. Both precision sticks.

I think a more appropriate line of thinking is to think this way.

What is the most GEOMETRICALLY efficient way to package powder capacity? It's a roughly 1:1 ratio of length to diameter. The shoulder angle and length/diameter ratio play heavily into proper ignition, hence the inherent accuracy of a 6BR or 6PPC case.

Neither the 308, 30-06, 7RM, 7-08, etc have the necessary dimensions to mimic those stubby little BR cases, and are therefore really just a shooting myth in my mind.

Precision Shooting did an article about this idea in September.

The 280AI is intereasting where can I get more info about this round? I have a long action wanting to be rebarreled and this may be the ticket.

I'd suggest searching for it on here and taking a look over at 6mmbr.com

Hodgdon has 280 data, the AI picks up about 100fps on every load, the lighter bullets come up with 150fps or a little more sometimes.

It's a smokin' load, akin to the types of velocities that come from a 7/300WSM almost. Not quite, but almost.

Brass is better for it though, since you can get excellent 30-06 brass from half a dozen sources.

Sorry for the delay.

Originally .284 Win was meant to be used in a short action and max length was the same as for 308 Win i.e. 2.795" max.

.284 Win is much better with heavier bullets when it is loaded long. Long means here anything where the bullet base clears the junction of the neck of the brass. With Berger 180 VLD it is around 3.15". Ammo this long does not fit into most short action mags and might be difficult to remove from the rifle wihtout shooting it first. This ammo does fit into any long action out there that can house 30-06. as the mag lenght for 30-06 is around 3.3".

This means that 95% of all official load recipes for .284 Win is for the short Cartridge Overall length version and therefore the max loads are pretty tame when C.O.L is lengthened 0.35". No problem for experienced reloaders. Not so easy for novices who should stick to official reloading tables.

I think the 7wsm in a custom long action is the ticket for shooting 180's!!!!!!

ok i will say it
Many consider the 7SAUM to be better than the 7wsm

Ck 6br.com for info

My brother has sucessfully shot his .284 Wihchester to 1,600 yards using Berger 180s (long-throated to seat at OAL of over 3.1"). I have done the same with my 7WSM using the Berger 180s. Depending on your location, the 7 SAUM may be the best choice of the 3 (read my comments on the .284 page at 6mmBR.com).

A .284 Shehane or equivilant (I have one to my specs), is virtually identcal in performance to the SAUM, but requires fire forming. Its a longer than the SAUM when you seat the Berger 180 with its Bearing surface junction with the boat tail at the neck, shoulder junction of the brass, with slightly less case capacity - using a 28-30 inch barrel.

Jeffvn

yeah its a tough decision. I have read through all the 6mmBR.com pages and find that is great information. Something keeps drawing me to the WSM. BUT, i definately want the best and most effecient all around cartride in 7mm so I shall keep looking.

Dont fall into the reloading trap at the expence of not being able to read wind.That extra 1/4 you gain in finding many loading combos is all for naught if you can't read the wind.Shoot and shoot and shoot.

Hornady has the 162 amax bullet with a BC of .625 that you can push fast with less recoil out of the 7MM. I am going with 7RM which I am having built right now by Surgeon on their new LA action.

The 162 looks good at first, but look at the wind drift compared to 175SMKs or Bergers at longer distances.

Here's the advice I give when someone poses this question. There is no right on wrong cartridge, only the one that works best for what you want to do with it. So here are your guidelines:

1) How far do you want to shoot?
2) What is the highest B.C. bullet you can get for 7mm?
3) What velocity does it shoot best at? Increased speed often comes at the expense of decreased accuracy.
4) What cartridge will push your bullet at the desired velocity with the highest load density (that is, the highest percentage of the case filled with powder). It's actually a disadvantage to have a big case that you can't fill over 95% with your chosen powder. Best to have a smaller case that you can run at its highest efficiency
5) What is your comfort level with reloading?
6) What is the quality of the readily available brass?

Add these up, ask other shooters, and make your choice, but out of your three options, I'd recommend the 7 Rem Mag. I'm not a fan of the WSM cartridges or brass, and ditto for the SAUM cartridges. I guess I'm too old school...

+1 on the 7-300. I think it's probably his best option, but it was not on his original list.

Bill Shehane beat me once in a relay with a soda straw and spitwads.

Don't know if that says a lot about Bill or less about me, but it's true.

Can you explain this if the BC of the 168 Berger is actually lower than the 162 Amax or were you talking the 162 Amax vs. the 180 Berger?

If you step to 180's you may as well go right to JLK's bullets. They're the top of the heap in 7mm by a fair margin.

I just bought a 7 SAUM, I plan to load 139 SST's for deer/hogs in SC and 162 Amax and 180 JLK's for long range exercises.

I see no point in shooting the best of the best target bullets at 60y deer or pigs. The hunting bullets stay sub MOA and the targets are multiple MOA across.

Unless my nightforce ballistics calculator is messed up of I am entering the data wrong there is little difference between the wind drift of the 162 amax (0.625)and the 168 berger (match VLD 0.617)running both at 3000 fps with a 10mph 3oclock cross wind.
Bullet Drop Drift
162amax -58.1 -17.9

168 Berger -58.4 -18.2

I'm not sure what to think. I guess I must have put something into JBM incorrectly somehow or their program changed. I'm looking at my range card printed a few months ago and when I put the same data back in the wind correction is about 5 minutes different.

The 162 Amax has a higher BC than the 168 Berger. The 180 Berger beats the 162 Amax's BC.

Therefore, the wind drift between the Amax and the lighter Berger should be that the Amax is a flatter, straighter flight.

Maybe I'm not thinking of it the right way.

I have the temp at 90F and the humidity at 85% since I am in houston. I have it at zero altitude since we are basically at sea level here in Houston and it is set to calculate standard atmospheric pressure. I had both bullets running at 3000fps to try to evenly compare but other than that I "think" I am calculating it right? Maybe if you have a different atmospheric pressure and it is much cooler with less humidity it makes that much difference. Also, I forgot to mention above that dope is 600yds I believe.

1ZNUF, do you really think that a case needs to have 95% fill to run an accurate load? Seems like it would actually burn the powder better with a lighter load than a heavy one? It will take the same pressure to move the bullet out of the case and will still have the same confinement of the gases until the bullet leaves the tube?....hmmm
I have no idea from experience because I never thought about that when reloading. I start at the bottom of the suggested load and move up until my bullet likes it. (watching for pressure signs etc. of course)

My experience with 30-06 was that as the load density increased (ie the powder volume goes up) the ES and SD wanderings came down. This was truly exemplified with RL-22 and 208 Amax in the 30-06.

The more I compressed the load the more the ES dropped til I got to 105% capacity loads, which meant that the last 40 thou of travel was an all out "crunch" when seating the bullets.

My current load runs about 103% because that's the most accurate and the ES is under 20 fps.

[/quote]I see no point in shooting the best of the best target bullets at 60y deer or pigs. The hunting bullets stay sub MOA and the targets are multiple MOA across. [/quote]

So true but part of the fun. I chuckle about this every year as I work with the boys to make them better shots at longer ranges and then carefully scout so we can get a good shot at 100 yds or less.

Any of the cartridges you have mentioned will do well, I like the 7RM or the 7WSM. I'd probably go with the WSM in a long action because it does not have a belt but the 7RM will do anything the WSM will do and brass can be easier to find.

Keep in mind that magnums are great but they have higher recoil which makes them harder for most people to shoot well. Accuracy is usually more satisfying than muzzle blast and the 280 will do almost anything the bigger 7's will do and the lower recoil will make for longer shooting sessions that are more enjoyable.