PRS Talk New MK TMB Muzzle brake

Combining the disadvantages of a suppressor and a muzzle brake!

Its like 12" long, loud, and you have to wait a year to actually get it

I'm keen to get one of these ultra brakes, having shot the TMB since the prototype phase, he is a good dude who works tirelessly on his products.

He was running a gen 1 concept demonstrator a couple of years ago and that thing was next level... This is obviously the refined retail version of that so I have absolutely no problems trusting any data or claims and want to support a mate.

jthor said:

This concept someone else posted about?

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Yes, that was one of the early generation concept demonstrators for a new style of brake.
From memory that one did not have a tuner, it had large welded ports and was fitted to his match rifle.
I shot it, it's awesome.

Things have clearly progressed beyond that model. I am looking forward to getting one when they're available and run it on the 6GT.

jthor said:

From his socials

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I tried to get some items machined through a few different shops.

It's amazing how much of people's own time they are willing to waste, not to mention other people's time and money....

His new brake, "the Chad" is 14 fn ozs! Jesus

4O6shootist said:

His new brake, "the Chad" is 14 fn ozs! Jesus

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Not surprising… MPA DN5 is right around that too, maybe 12oz? I'll weight it next time I have mine off for cleaning.

Roksliding said:

View attachment 8356471

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The new ones will be louder tho. Hahahahahha

I’ll be impressed if it actually shows up. Still have my money in the ether for the original MK one.

It’s $515 fucking dollars lmao.


WTF OVER

Kadams1563 said:

It’s $515 fucking dollars lmao.


WTF OVER

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That’s fucking insane.

Doesn't bring pre-paid tmb mk version 2.6792 to market due to logistics, brings out version 3.7524 at 25% higher price. Hell of a business motto.......

Kadams1563 said:

It’s $515 fucking dollars lmao.


WTF OVER

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That's crazy.

You can get a Diligent Defense suppressor at that price

I don't think this business plan is going to work out well...

I have tried to reach out to BJ to find out when pre-orders would occur. So far got nothing but crickets from him. The design looks pretty sound.

kthomas said:

That's crazy.

You can get a Diligent Defense suppressor at that price

I don't think this business plan is going to work out well...

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People will still buy them.... The whole game is a money pit!
Just ANOTHER drop in the bucket....

Stuey said:

I have tried to reach out to BJ to find out when pre-orders would occur. So far got nothing but crickets from him. The design looks pretty sound.

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What isn't a good business plan is not spending the time to reply to customers..... or worse, not having the respect to be bothered to reply.

Now there could be of course another reason..... but a customer will generally assume the worst, and it is a fair enough assuption to default to.

There needs to be a thread in The Bear Pit full of fictional reviews of this product.

-Stan

I shot the last two matches with the Gen 2.5 TMB and I think I'm going back to ACE brakes. Developing a flinch and wicked headaches after each of the matches just isnt worth the extra recoil reduction.

Probably put my TMB up for sale and my MK Chad up if/when I get it.

Mormegil87 said:

I shot the last two matches with the Gen 2.5 TMB and I think I'm going back to ACE brakes. Developing a flinch and wicked headaches after each of the matches just isnt worth the extra recoil reduction.

Probably put my TMB up for sale and my MK Chad up if/when I get it.

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This point of view seems to be getting some momentum lately.... Almost everything has diminishing returns, and some have seriously increased negatives also. Be interesting how this all plays out.
Ultimately someone has to choose if that fractional gain is worth the negative, especially if you (like most of us) are nowhere near the podium?

Pete B said:

This point of view seems to be getting some momentum lately.... Almost everything has diminishing returns, and some have seriously increased negatives also. Be interesting how this all plays out.
Ultimately someone has to choose if that fractional gain is worth the negative, especially if you (like most of us) are nowhere near the podium?

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I'm usually close to or on the podium at local matches. I've been in the top 25 at a couple of pro matches.

I hope WIthout Warning is successful in the end. The more successful businesses in the firearms industry the better off the 2A movement will be, in the long run. We need more success stories.

Mormegil87 said:

I'm usually close to or on the podium at local matches. I've been in the top 25 at a couple of pro matches.

I hope WIthout Warning is successful in the end. The more successful businesses in the firearms industry the better off the 2A movement will be, in the long run. We need more success stories.

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Fair enough, but the podium guys are not the majority or the ones who keep the industry profortable (certainly can sway purchasing decisions). Your views of the negatives associated with the super effective brakes are becoming more prevalent.
Time will tell if the majority are willing to except the trade-offs, I'm not..... Best of luck to those that do, effects me not at all.
Best of luck to TMB, I have no doubt an immense amount of time, thought and effort has been put into this product.

April 22nd has come and gone. Still no brakes.

Shocked. Absolutely shocked I say.

I saw. You have more patience than I do. I've already sold my Gen 2.5 TMB and if I don't get a refund on the Chad I'll be selling that as well. Too many deadlines have been missed.

I dont think hes trying to do anyone dirty.
But I've hit the point where I'm past accepting excuses. I wish him and his business the best but won't have his products on my rifles.

jthor said:

@Mormegil87 I kinda also want to see if my prediction for April-May time frame at the beginning of Feb is correct. lol

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Yeah I just don't have the patience anymore to wait for something that has been over a year.

Mormegil87 said:

I shot the last two matches with the Gen 2.5 TMB and I think I'm going back to ACE brakes. Developing a flinch and wicked headaches after each of the matches just isnt worth the extra recoil reduction.

Probably put my TMB up for sale and my MK Chad up if/when I get it.

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Check out the ATS. Much more recoil reduction than the ACE, actually has less concussion too. I sold my ACEs and latest testing proves it. Sold my APA fat bastards, A419 brakes, ACE, ect to consolidate on the ATS. Its the perfect brake IMO.

on sale right now at anarchy:

Always.......an.......exucse, I mean manufacturing delay.

Mormegil87 said:

I shot the last two matches with the Gen 2.5 TMB and I think I'm going back to ACE brakes. Developing a flinch and wicked headaches after each of the matches just isnt worth the extra recoil reduction.

Probably put my TMB up for sale and my MK Chad up if/when I get it.

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When we call out flinch and headaches, what situation(s) are we referring to?

A) Side blast felt when spotting another shooter that has the TMB on

B) Concussion felt from behind the rifle with a TMB on

I'm now on match #4 with the TMB 2.5 (2-Day x1, 1-Day x3) and cannot say that I have encountered any of Scenario B. Not one single shot. I have been subjected to plenty of Scenario A, but the fix there is to relocate my tripod while spotting.

I am coming from the Hawkins tank --> Area 419 Hellfire --> Hellfire match --> FBG3 --> TMB 2.5

Small sample size of matches, but with >500 rounds now I can attest that I have seen a meaningful change in the ability to manage muzzle rise and the ability to spot shots.

Senor_Barney said:

When we call out flinch and headaches, what situation(s) are we referring to?

A) Side blast felt when spotting another shooter that has the TMB on

B) Concussion felt from behind the rifle with a TMB on

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Most definitely scenario B. I went from a can, to a APA LB to an ACE to the TMB 2.5 and now back to the ACE over the course of almost 10 years of shooting 1 and 2 day matches. I was never sensitive to concussion until I went to the 2.5. I can't put my finger on why the TMB is an issue for me but it is. I shot it my first two matches this season and had splitting headaches for the two days following each match.

As someone who is involved with manuf, and makes parts for a living...

If we miss a deadline on order, and there is a contract in place, there is a penalty. Each day is either a percentage, or a flat rate. Say a part is $100, and theres 100 parts on order to be delivered in 100 days.. if i miss that deadline its a 10% discount per day, OR a flat $20 per item per week. (These are not exact numbers, but an example).

In line with that is often a 25% or sometimes 50% up front deposit, and settlement within 7 days of delivery.

If you are cash struck or flow poor.. you deliver asap, and say 5% diacount if you pay on collect. Everyone wins.

I talked with BJ a few times and frankly got really pissed. I know he's trying to make a badass piece of kit, and he's doing his best not having manufacturing in house. It's just frustrating as fuck with all the delays when you spend a ton of money on a brake.

Needless to say, anyone who preordered is at the mercy of Without Warning.

I bought 2 regular 2.5 MB's and bought the MK one. I like the 2.5's, but they are def concussive as fuck, and I think tuners are pointless, but they are hands down the best brake I've personally used other than the APA brakes, which I fucking love. I bought the tuner delete nut for my 2.5's.

I'll wait end of month (May) like promised. I think he means well and I don't think he's a bad dude even when everyone meme's him to hell and back, and he actually gives a fuck.

We will see though.

I kinda have to say f this guy and his shit business motto. Straignt up goes to show the power of bullshit marketing and getting ONE GUY who's a top tier prs shooter to plug ur shit, all us pheasant mofos get in line and give out hard earned over taxed wages to a joker. He's robbed 90% his customers money and used it to R&D a product that's on gen3, and almost nobody get the first gens they paid for. This worse than the damn pyramid scams of the 80s and 90s, at least those early people made some money!

4O6shootist said:

I kinda have to say f this guy and his shit business motto. Straignt up goes to show the power of bullshit marketing and getting ONE GUY who's a top tier prs shooter to plug ur shit, all us pheasant mofos get in line and give out hard earned over taxed wages to a joker. He's robbed 90% his customers money and used it to R&D a product that's on gen3, and almost nobody get the first gens they paid for. This worse than the damn pyramid scams of the 80s and 90s, at least those early people made some money!

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There's very much a follow the herd mentality in PRS.

Get a couple of top PRS shooters to advocate for your product ("product mavens" per Malcom Gladwell), and people will be lining up to buy your product.

Just like when Impact actions debuted, the way people were talking about them you would think that if you had an Impact, you could walk across water.

Off course Impact actually knows how to run a business, and they do make a good product. I don't mean to draw equivalence between Impact and TMB on how they run their businesses. Merely pointing out how powerful having a "product maven" (i.e. top PRS shooter) to your product can be.

jthor said:

The dude isn’t ripping anyone off. While he did not handle the delays of the first MK brake well he did rectify that and explain everything later. The MK edition CHAD brakes are all physically made and at coating.
Those of us who originally ordered MK brakes will be getting them along with a coupon/discount code for another product.

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Really? Most paid for product 1, that was not delivered, then they never received product gen 2.2654 due to supply, now they're supposedly getting a product they never intended to buy. Whoever Pre-ordered financed this guys business, his r&d and his Porsche. Don't be mad, this is the truth.

jthor said:

Find it hard to explain how preorders crowd funded the CHAD considering he lost a lot of the money from the manufacture that said they could make the brake and then produced crap and kept the money.

I’d rather have this brake compared to the original product considering it is better in both recoil reduction and putting the concussion away from the receiver.

Did you order one?

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I did order one last spring, and got a refund upon announcement of the Chad is I don't want something the size, weight and price of a suppressor when a simple DN5 or fat bastard does 95% of what a TMB will for far less financial(and emotional at this point) investment. Has he lost money? Or lost some net profits? Or lost our money, cuz these orders are still unfulfilled? Idk, I personally don't want anything from this clown.

The whole reason he's jacked MSRP so fn high on the Chad is to make the people who've been waiting years for a product feel better, conning them into thinking their ungodly wait time has netted them a product that's worth more than their original purchase price. This is just a physiological move, there is nothing material or manufacting related to create this price point, kinda like the new 2200$ zermatt chassis.

I'll most likely be selling mine if and when it shows up. I've moved on.

4O6shootist said:

I kinda have to say f this guy and his shit business motto. Straignt up goes to show the power of bullshit marketing and getting ONE GUY who's a top tier prs shooter to plug ur shit, all us pheasant mofos get in line and give out hard earned over taxed wages to a joker.

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You avian people sure do get worked up.