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Varget vs N140

Dildobaggins

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Minuteman
  • Jun 26, 2020
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    So I have shot Varget with great success, and other VV powders as well. The price of Varget compared to N140 for an 8# jug is almost $100 difference. Anyone switch to shoot N140 instead of Varget? Is the newer formula of N140 more temp stable compared to years past? I'm looking to buy a few 8# jugs for my 223, 22ARC, and 6br. Any compelling reason to choose one over the other? I'm just thinking if I bought 3 8# jugs of Varget, I could get 4 jugs of VVN140 for the same price. its tempting me.
     
    Anyone switch to shoot N140 instead of Varget?
    Been using it for a long time.
    Is the newer formula of N140 more temp stable compared to years past?
    Yes, I don't remember the exact year the formulation changed, but it was somewhere between 2014 to 2016 or so.

    Like many examples in reloading, you have to try and see if your particular recipe and rig like the N-140 more than Varget. There is no way to guarantee the outcome, you will just have to give it a run. The main point being, N-140 is worth the risk and does pretty well in terms of temp stability.
     
    Been using it for a long time.

    Yes, I don't remember the exact year the formulation changed, but it was somewhere between 2014 to 2016 or so.

    Like many examples in reloading, you have to try and see if your particular recipe and rig like the N-140 more than Varget. There is no way to guarantee the outcome, you will just have to give it a run. The main point being, N-140 is worth the risk and does pretty well in terms of temp stability.
    Good to hear. I think I'll grab a pound and try it. My concern with temp stability is colder conditions. From my reading, high temps can cause pressure issues. I haven't read anything about colder temps thoigh, which is my main concern being in upstate NY. I do alot of shooting in 20-45 degree weather. The summers here seem to get shorter and shorter.
     
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    Good to hear. I think I'll grab a pound and try it. My concern with temp stability is colder conditions. From my reading, high temps can cause pressure issues. I haven't read anything about colder temps thoigh, which is my main concern being in upstate NY. I do alot of shooting in 20-45 degree weather. The summers here seem to get shorter and shorter.
    Easy to test....put X amount of rounds in a sandwich bag in the freezer over night...put them in a cooler with an ice pack and go to your spot or range and shoot them over the Chrony...also let a X amount of rounds sit in ambient and throw X amount on your defroster vent of your car with the heater cranked up and shoot all over the chrony...you can check ammo temp with a cheap heat gun.

    I use to shoot a lot of RL17 and it was by far the most temp sensitive powder I have ever tested.
     
    I have made a lot of switching away from Hodgdon powders after they decided they're worth > $350/keg. Have been having great success with N150, N135, N133, and now N160. Will probably get some N140 to play with in the near future.

    *Edited because my fat fingers couldn't hit a VV powder designation to save my life with earlier.
     
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    In my powder lots, N140 has been slightly slower at the same charge weight as my current Varget load. My only real complaint is the N140 does not seem to be as uniform in size as Varget. When metering through my INGP trikler, I feel like I need a smaller size disk.

    Otherwise it seems to put up good SD's and produces solid groups.
     
    I've not used N140, but I've burned up quite a bit of N135 and N540.

    I'd buy the four cans of VV at the price of three Vargets. N135 flows really smoothly through Dillon and Redding measures.
    Does it? I need to find a powder that meters well through a Dillion while being stable and has good ES/SD for precision .223 loads I dont want to waste time using Supertrickler on.
     
    Easy to test....put X amount of rounds in a sandwich bag in the freezer over night...put them in a cooler with an ice pack and go to your spot or range and shoot them over the Chrony...also let a X amount of rounds sit in ambient and throw X amount on your defroster vent of your car with the heater cranked up and shoot all over the chrony...you can check ammo temp with a cheap heat gun.

    I use to shoot a lot of RL17 and it was by far the most temp sensitive powder I have ever tested.
    Brilliant idea! Thank you.
     
    Does it? I need to find a powder that meters well through a Dillion while being stable and has good ES/SD for precision .223 loads I dont want to waste time using Supertrickler on.

    N135 is a slightly smaller kernel than Varget (for reference). It isn't ball powder easy, but it is pretty easy.
     
    So, N140/N150 for Varget... N550/N555 for H4350... is N160 too slow, or...? The N5xx series powders are double base - just wondering if there's a single base powder equivalent for H4350/RL16?

    N160. I got it specifically for the 6/6.5CM. I don't think you'll be disappointed if comparing velocities to H4350...but in my rifles, I've always found that I can get RL-16 up a bit faster. You might lose ~75FPS comparing N160 to N555 with the heavies.
     
    Easy to test....put X amount of rounds in a sandwich bag in the freezer over night...put them in a cooler with an ice pack and go to your spot or range and shoot them over the Chrony...also let a X amount of rounds sit in ambient and throw X amount on your defroster vent of your car with the heater cranked up and shoot all over the chrony...you can check ammo temp with a cheap heat gun.

    I use to shoot a lot of RL17 and it was by far the most temp sensitive powder I have ever tested.
    When load developing in cold weather for cold weather hunting/shooting, I let the ammo match ambient temp for an hour before shooting. Keep the ammo in the bed of the truck on the way to the range.
    When load developing in cold weather for hot weather hunting/shooting, I warm the ammo with a hair dryer for 15-20 mins and keep the ammo in my pockets near body to keep them at 100F. for the 10 min trip to the range.
    It takes some time for the powder to get thoroughly heated or cooled inside the case. So I try for min of 1/2 hour conditioning.

    Yup, RL17 is spikey with hot temps.
     
    So, N140/N150 for Varget... N550/N555 for H4350... is N160 too slow, or...? The N5xx series powders are double base - just wondering if there's a single base powder equivalent for H4350/RL16?

    I use a lot of N1xx and N5xx in various cartridges. Here's how it shakes out for me:

    N150 - .308WIN heavy bullets in semi-auto

    N160 - 6mm Creedmoor in semi-auto

    N555 - 6mm Creedmoor in bolt gun

    N550 - 6.5x47L (or 6.5 Creedmoor) in bolt gun

    N570 - .338LM or .300NM for speed

    N170 - .300NM to save a unicorn barrel's throat
     
    I use a lot of N1xx and N5xx in various cartridges. Here's how it shakes out for me:

    N150 - .308WIN heavy bullets in semi-auto

    N160 - 6mm Creedmoor in semi-auto

    N555 - 6mm Creedmoor in bolt gun

    N550 - 6.5x47L (or 6.5 Creedmoor) in bolt gun

    N570 - .338LM or .300NM for speed

    N170 - .300NM to save a unicorn barrel's throat
    For 300 WM in Pete Long brass, N570 and N170 produce some great velocities and SD with Berger 215s. I reduce the N170 charge 1 grain from the N570 charge for same velocity. N570 with those tic-tac like kernels though. Worst metering and flow through ever!
     
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    When load developing in cold weather for cold weather hunting/shooting, I let the ammo match ambient temp for an hour before shooting. Keep the ammo in the bed of the truck on the way to the range.
    When load developing in cold weather for hot weather hunting/shooting, I warm the ammo with a hair dryer for 15-20 mins and keep the ammo in my pockets near body to keep them at 100F. for the 10 min trip to the range.
    It takes some time for the powder to get thoroughly heated or cooled inside the case. So I try for min of 1/2 hour conditioning.

    Yup, RL17 is spikey with hot temps.
    I am not a hunter but do a lot of shooting....temp swings from morning to mid day can be 30-40degs which will cause issues with some of the powders I use to use when things were hard to get and is what made me start temp testing powders...every powder I've done this with has velocity swings just some worse than others.
     
    Been shooting N540 in 6BR with 105/108/109 bullets for a while, maybe 2-3 pounds gone so far.

    Velocity seems pretty much identical to Varget. Precision seems about the same, shooting five, five-round groups at 500 meters shows them to be about the same.

    SD's were better with Varget and Fed205's than N540 and either CCI450 or 205's.

    Varget/205's over 25 shots had a SD of 4.7 (Garmin)
    Varget/cci450's over 25 shots had a SD of 6.0 (Garmin)

    N540 was about 8 with either above mentioned primer, though I should redo this comparison, as this was right before my about decade old Magnetospeed finally died.
     
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    VV's load data says you can use N550 with the 185s, but I found it was too slow. N540 was a better choice; I think around 43gr was my load way back when.
    That’s what I was worried about. What speeds were you seeing? I ran into this issue when I was trying to load for my Win mag. I have several pounds of powder that only have 10 rounds of it used until the guy at the reloading store recommended 4831sc.

    I appreciate your help
     
    I did not see body heat. Might have missed it. Defroster on car dash it too hot.
    I use my defroster and have never had an issue...I could see if someone was running a stupid hot load to began with...but then the samething would happen if someone was running a hot load and went to a match in 100+deg weather.
     
    I do alot of shooting in 20-45 degree weather. The summers here seem to get shorter and shorter.
    I got a chuckle out of cold being 20 to 45 F.......

    But yes, the problems start even before that when the topic is preloaded ammo. Just wait till you try it below zero.... or above 110....

    One last comment, be prepared to try different primers on the next chance you have to test in "cold" days. Carpe Diem!
     
    That’s what I was worried about. What speeds were you seeing? I ran into this issue when I was trying to load for my Win mag. I have several pounds of powder that only have 10 rounds of it used until the guy at the reloading store recommended 4831sc.

    I appreciate your help
    Honestly, it was so long ago and I don’t have the rifle I used them in anymore.
     
    The latest version of N140 is supposed to be very temperature-resistant. The U.S. distributor just sent me some, but I haven't had a chance to test it, mostly because temperatures haven't been very warm since it arrived!

    But so far I haven't tested any powder claimed to be temp-resistant that isn't, probably because so many handloaders have chronographs these days. If the powder didn't live up to the claim, it would soon become apparent.
     
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    Ok stupid question

    Is there any powder distributor that sell just like a sample size of powder. I use to not mind blowing $20 to find out if I liked a powder and it was easy to find locally. Now it’s at least $40+ a hazmat charge. I guess it would not be a good idea because you would have to pay hazmat for a sample size
     
    I got a chuckle out of cold being 20 to 45 F.......

    But yes, the problems start even before that when the topic is preloaded ammo. Just wait till you try it below zero.... or above 110....

    One last comment, be prepared to try different primers on the next chance you have to test in "cold" days. Carpe Diem!
    Let me rephrase. I wont shoot in temps colder than 20, unless my brother drags me out to shoot coyotes.
     
    Be aware this was posted in the powder thread by @Evintos

    "VihtaVuori Smokeless Powders has been incurring continuous cost increases on all the chemical components used to produce our premium powders for the past few years. As such, we have done our very best to absorb these material cost increases, where possible, with minimal cost increases to our valued retail partners.

    We, however, can no longer absorb the latest cost increases we face this year without implementing a price increase.

    To that end, the Capstone Precision Group will implement a 9% average invoice cost increase for all VihtaVuori powder shipments made on or after June 1st, 2024."
     
    I run n140 in my 223 and br loads and n150 in my dasher.

    Both have been excellent. I tried Varget 10+ years ago and wasn’t impressed so never tried it again. I shoot in Colorado so cold winters and warm/hot summers. I have not tested velocity changes due to temp but I shoot the same load year round and haven’t had any real issues but I also true every match.
     
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    Does it? I need to find a powder that meters well through a Dillion while being stable and has good ES/SD for precision .223 loads I dont want to waste time using Supertrickler on.
    The Double Alpha .223 powder funnel/insert for Dillon powder measures is mirror-polished inside and helps more than I thought possible for progressive-loading stick powder:

    103457.webp

    103457.webp
    103457.webp
     
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    So, N140/N150 for Varget... N550/N555 for H4350... is N160 too slow, or...? The N5xx series powders are double base - just wondering if there's a single base powder equivalent for H4350/RL16?

    only N555 ~ H4350 ~ ReloadSwiss62. not N550

    N550 is slightly faster than RS60 = Re17, and ReloadSwiss60 = Re17 is ~ S-065 = Shooters World ‘Long Rifle’ ~ Re16.

    N160 is slower than N555 for at least 1gr.

    N140 will probably be a little faster than Varger. N150 can be like Varget. and so is ReloadSwiss50.

    N555 IS LOW ENERGY POWDER !! 3700J/g. probably lower like H4350.
     
    only N555 ~ H4350 ~ ReloadSwiss62. not N550

    N550 is slightly faster than RS60 = Re17, and ReloadSwiss60 = Re17 is ~ S-065 = Shooters World ‘Long Rifle’ ~ Re16.

    N160 is slower than N555 for at least 1gr.

    N140 will probably be a little faster than Varger. N150 can be like Varget. and so is ReloadSwiss50.

    N555 IS LOW ENERGY POWDER !! 3700J/g. probably lower like H4350.
    So you're saying N150 is closer to Varget than N140? Just asking because Varget shot well in my 223, 6.5Grendel, 6 BR and I wanted to try it for my 22ARC