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Bergara sucks ass, buyer beware.

That’s a fair point, but I still don’t think I should take any more of a loss in this circumstance nor will I accept that.
Fair enough, and certainly your call. Gopherslayer makes a good point in his post above. I take back the " dumb " remark.
 
Red neck you have been shooting long enough I don’t doubt your abilities

Any company with a rifle that shoots that bad should want it back to see what they fd up on. If not it’s no company I would use or tell students to buy

Appreciate the endorsement Mike.

I’ve certainly had off days at the range, but I’ve shot enough to know 100% when I’m fucking up.
 
Man, if I had a quarter for every " unwise " thing I`ve done in my 76 years on the planet I`d be in a much higher tax bracket!


I think that describes most of us.

Hell, I've had a half dozen 22-250s in my time on this planet. It's a fantastic performer.
I got rid of the first one because of how much I hated trimming the brass.
Then, I bought another one. It shot great too. I don't know why I was expecting it would be less trimming. It wasn't.
Then I bought another one... and so on.

Did I mention owning a 220 Swift?


All of us do dumb shit. And most of us, knowing the possible outcome, do it again.
Stabby, crazy wimmerns come to mind. Getting puking drunk does also. For some, it's eating spicy food and dealing with the acid reflux and burning butthole.
It used to be Oreo Blizzards for me. 20-30 minutes after consuming it, I'd be doing a speed download. The next week, I'd eat another.


I don't, and have never, owned a Bergara, but I do have a few Savages.
 
I think that describes most of us.

Hell, I've had a half dozen 22-250s in my time on this planet. It's a fantastic performer.
I got rid of the first one because of how much I hated trimming the brass.
Then, I bought another one. It shot great too. I don't know why I was expecting it would be less trimming. It wasn't.
Then I bought another one... and so on.

Did I mention owning a 220 Swift?


All of us do dumb shit. And most of us, knowing the possible outcome, do it again.
Stabby, crazy wimmerns come to mind. Getting puking drunk does also. For some, it's eating spicy food and dealing with the acid reflux and burning butthole.
It used to be Oreo Blizzards for me. 20-30 minutes after consuming it, I'd be doing a speed download. The next week, I'd eat another.


I don't, and have never, owned a Bergara, but I do have a few Savages.
I agree! And sometimes we forget and criticize others for doing the same thing! Somebody pretty important said a long time ago something about noticing the speck in your brother`s eye while ignoring the beam in your own.

LOL! Just by the way, I have a couple of Savages myself, but mine have turned out fine!
 
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WTF….this barrel making in Pakistan ?

@Frank Green - think you need to hire this guy! lol.
LOL! I actually seen that video before. That was an awesome post!

Not sure if he twisted the tool steel far enough to make sure it's a proper 1-10 twist for his barrel? ;)

Love his left over shredded rag... and lapping compound to smooth out the bore also! :LOL:

His barrel blank only had a little runout... so good to go there also! :sneaky:

Where there is a will there is a way!

I wish I could find the new video (forget it if was ABS, or NBC or CBS) back when Russia was fighting in Afghanistan back in the 1980's time frame. Anyways they went to a open gun market.... and besides guns that where for sale (including M1 Garands and Lugers from WW1) they showed them making AK47's by hand which included hand cut rifling the barrels on a real old looking 1800's cutting type machine if you want to call it that. Back then they pulled the cutter thru by hand. Gotta say though... those hand built AK's worked and slinged lead to kill the Russians good enough.

I should make a video of making gun barrels totally by hand... I could be a TikTok star! :cool:
 
To everyone saying it's not a moral dilemma because bergara said it's gtg you are missing the point. Redneckbmxers stance is bergara is full of shit and its not gtg and they should fix it not claim we investigated ourselves and all is good. At this point is your time worth more than giving up and getting it rebarreled.
 
Appreciate all the replies. This experience has taught me (once again) what manufacturer to never by a rifle from as well as some members to never buy stuff from that think it’s acceptable to pawn off their fucked up shit onto others.

I spoke to a tech at Hornady this morning and went over the whole situation and their suggestions were completely in line with the troubleshooting I’ve already done and agreed there’s likely an issue with the rifle. Their suggestion was also to have a gunsmith look at it.

It only took the first phone call to a notable precision rifle builder that was willing to get involved and look the thing over, so it will be going to them this week for a full inspection and detailed report on any issues found.
 
To everyone saying it's not a moral dilemma because bergara said it's gtg you are missing the point. Redneckbmxers stance is bergara is full of shit and its not gtg and they should fix it not claim we investigated ourselves and all is good. At this point is your time worth more than giving up and getting it rebarreled.
We are saying selling it with the honest opinion of how it shoots but along with the factory assessment of it. Just in case it’s error on the users end. It happens. You clearly haven’t purchased any optics where the user doesn’t have a clue what the diopter does. Sends it in for clarity issues, gets a clean slate back then sells it. Next guy is perfectly happy. It happens just be honest when you sell it

However,

I’ll be watching the updates on this thread after the OP gets his assessment back from the smith showing a faulty rifle. At that point when he completes his lawsuit or gets Bergara to admit the rifle is faulty then I will not only have more respect for the OP but I personally would never buy or recommend another Bergara rifle again

Shady and deceptive customer service behind a product says more to me about the product itself. I had my share of bad luck with vortex. But never once did the customer service disappoint.

If there’s a clear problem with the rifle then we can assume it did not shoot a .6 and .9 moa group during its test and was simply sent back to OP in same condition
 
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We are saying selling it with the honest opinion of how it shoots but along with the factory assessment of it. Just in case it’s error on the users end. It happens. You clearly haven’t purchased any optics where the user doesn’t have a clue what the diopter does. Sends it in for clarity issues, gets a clean slate back then sells it. Next guy is perfectly happy. It happens just be honest when you sell it

To the first part, who in their right mind would buy this rifle with me being honest about how it’s shooting? And why in the hell should I have to take a loss on something that’s GUARANTEED to shoot to a certain level of accuracy and after every type of rifle witchcraft does not? I’ve offered for those who are insistent that the rifle is fine and I’m doing something wrong to step up to the plate and take it off my hands. Fucking crickets. I’ve got confidence in my opinion of the rifle, but none of those folks have enough confidence in theirs to prove me wrong.

To the second part, I went through that exact situation with a Nightforce. Wouldn’t you know the next guy had the same fucking problem with it and they actually fixed it? LOL. Unfortunately that wasn’t a bridge I was willing to burn.

Companies do shit like that all the time and if others are willing to accept getting fucked that’s on them, but I’m not. I know that I have the right to get what is promised to me when I make a purchase and I’m stubborn enough to hold them to it.
 
To the first part, who in their right mind would buy this rifle with me being honest about how it’s shooting? And why in the hell should I have to take a loss on something that’s GUARANTEED to shoot to a certain level of accuracy and after every type of rifle witchcraft does not? I’ve offered for those who are insistent that the rifle is fine and I’m doing something wrong to step up to the plate and take it off my hands. Fucking crickets. I’ve got confidence in my opinion of the rifle, but none of those folks have enough confidence in theirs to prove me wrong.

To the second part, I went through that exact situation with a Nightforce. Wouldn’t you know the next guy had the same fucking problem with it and they actually fixed it? LOL. Unfortunately that wasn’t a bridge I was willing to burn.

Companies do shit like that all the time and if others are willing to accept getting fucked that’s on them, but I’m not. I know that I have the right to get what is promised to me when I make a purchase and I’m stubborn enough to hold them to it.
Fair enough. I’m not trying to shit on you or your experience. Just stating the fact that sometimes it’s ok to just move on to something else especially if your having that bad of luck and service from a particular brand

Honestly with your experience if you get it figured out I’d part with it anyway. I wouldn’t support a company who not only has dishonest customer service but clearly has an issue with quality if a single customer has been subjected to as many bad samples as you have.

This shows the overall quality is very poor as I’m guessing your sample size vs quality size isn’t huge. I’ve owned many savages (probably 10+ different rifles) and haven’t even seen 3 out of those than that I couldn’t make shoot an honest 1 moa or less.

As much as we crap on savage here I’d still buy and recommend one. I wouldn’t say the same of Bergara when your assessment proves you correct. At that point it’s shit quality backed by dishonest customer service

I truly hope you get it figured out and look forward to the outcome. The models I own are the rimfires (B14R and BMR)
 
LOL! I actually seen that video before. That was an awesome post!

Not sure if he twisted the tool steel far enough to make sure it's a proper 1-10 twist for his barrel? ;)

Love his left over shredded rag... and lapping compound to smooth out the bore also! :LOL:

His barrel blank only had a little runout... so good to go there also! :sneaky:

Where there is a will there is a way!

I wish I could find the new video (forget it if was ABS, or NBC or CBS) back when Russia was fighting in Afghanistan back in the 1980's time frame. Anyways they went to a open gun market.... and besides guns that where for sale (including M1 Garands and Lugers from WW1) they showed them making AK47's by hand which included hand cut rifling the barrels on a real old looking 1800's cutting type machine if you want to call it that. Back then they pulled the cutter thru by hand. Gotta say though... those hand built AK's worked and slinged lead to kill the Russians good enough.

I should make a video of making gun barrels totally by hand... I could be a TikTok star! :cool:
They were in Khyber Pass in Northern Afghanistan, between Kabul and Peshawar. That’s where the open gun market is that they went to. It’s been a running joke for decades about the people in that town making shitty hand-built knockoff and one of a kind piece mill guns.
 
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Appreciate all the replies. This experience has taught me (once again) what manufacturer to never by a rifle from as well as some members to never buy stuff from that think it’s acceptable to pawn off their fucked up shit onto others.

I spoke to a tech at Hornady this morning and went over the whole situation and their suggestions were completely in line with the troubleshooting I’ve already done and agreed there’s likely an issue with the rifle. Their suggestion was also to have a gunsmith look at it.

It only took the first phone call to a notable precision rifle builder that was willing to get involved and look the thing over, so it will be going to them this week for a full inspection and detailed report on any issues found.
IMG_8289.gif
 
It only took the first phone call to a notable precision rifle builder that was willing to get involved and look the thing over, so it will be going to them this week for a full inspection and detailed report on any issues found.
Make sure you post a photo copy of their response, on their Letter Head, here. Just to clear all doubt.
 
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Make sure you post a photo copy of their response, on their Letter Head, here. Just to clear all doubt.
It'll go deeper - just wait until they figure out that IF he does get into legal action they will be pulled in, and in that process will have themselves a PR issue to potentially deal with. That's the very uncool part nobody is talking about.
 
It'll go deeper - just wait until they figure out that IF he does get into legal action they will be pulled in, and in that process will have themselves a PR issue to potentially deal with. That's the very uncool part nobody is talking about.

I'd bet that the positive publicity that will come from them going to bat for someone that got shafted will outweigh any negative publicity the Bergarbage fanboys who would likely never hire a custom shop for work will see anyway.

You seem to be very bothered by all of this for some reason as well as the fact that I'm not just willing to take the L and let this go. Why is that? Are you a Bergara owner that's bothered by the negative publicity towards a brand you own, are you someone thats too weak to stand up for yourself, or is it something else?
 
Just curious

Who’s the smith looking the rifle over?
 
It'll go deeper - just wait until they figure out that IF he does get into legal action they will be pulled in, and in that process will have themselves a PR issue to potentially deal with. That's the very uncool part nobody is talking about.
Reread some of the posts, as that was covered but not in direct wording.
 
I am curious about one thing. Why did you not take us up on the offer of having another set of eyes look it over?
I’m sure he’s competent in what he’s looking at on the rifle himself

Since he’s pursuing a lawsuit in this matter a smith at this point should be the one looking it over. As their findings regarding legal action will be presented in court on the OP behalf.
 
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It'll go deeper - just wait until they figure out that IF he does get into legal action they will be pulled in, and in that process will have themselves a PR issue to potentially deal with. That's the very uncool part nobody is talking about.

It also has not come up that in some states you can't have a lawyer in small claims court.

Most everything else that has been brought up has been illeterates rehashing shit that was in the OP.

Not surprised by the bunch of blowhards that showed to throw shade. Probably would all shit their pants if they actually shot enough to break their Arkan and find out their Savages don't feed.
 
I would guess most reading this, but a handful in particular. If they want to chime in they will. Most everyone I know would gladly welcome another set of eyes to any problem they are having. Then again my crowd might be, just weird.

And exactly how would this be facilitated and of what benefit would it be of mine? What qualifies you to go over the rifle any more than myself? Are you a gunsmith? Do you have any sort of of professional background that qualifies you as knowledgeable that Bergara or a judge would give a single thought about?

Are you going to drive or fly to me out of the goodness of your heart to put another set of eyes on it?
 
And exactly how would this be facilitated and of what benefit would it be of mine? What qualifies you to go over the rifle any more than myself? Are you a gunsmith? Do you have any sort of of professional background that qualifies you as knowledgeable that Bergara or a judge would give a single thought about?

Are you going to drive or fly to me out of the goodness of your heart to put another set of eyes on it?

I bet you have a lot of really close friends. It seems like it would be a blast to hang out with you.
 
And exactly how would this be facilitated and of what benefit would it be of mine? What qualifies you to go over the rifle any more than myself? Are you a gunsmith? Do you have any sort of of professional background that qualifies you as knowledgeable that Bergara or a judge would give a single thought about?

Are you going to drive or fly to me out of the goodness of your heart to put another set of eyes on it?

Did you check to see if the picatinny screws were too long, usually a front picatinny that sits awkward is not being held down tight against the receiver and it appears that something is out of spec. The chance that front screw is hitting the tenon are good and will cause accuracy issues.
 
Did you check to see if the picatinny screws were too long, usually a front picatinny that sits awkward is not being held down tight against the receiver and it appears that something is out of spec. The chance that front screw is hitting the tenon are good and will cause accuracy issues.
That was measured and checked when it was installed. I had to sub another 6-48 screw I had around because the shorty that came with the Seekins rail was too short once the front was bedded and didn’t even have 1 full thread of engagement and the longer one was too long and would have bottomed out.

That would make zero difference anyway and all it would do is booger up the threads on the tennon and the screw and not properly clamp the rail, it would have zero effect on accuracy. There’s QC barrel systems that put tension on the barrel in similar ways to hold it (Terminus Zeus is one) and at least 50% of AR-15 gas blocks have similar set screws half way down the barrel than are tightened 10inlbs higher so if that type of pressure doesn’t present an issue on those applications then it sure as hell isn’t going to present an issue from a little 6-48 contacting a tennon at 15in lbs.

The second screw back that would contact the top bolt lug or the front action screw that would contact the bottom lug is what would cause an accuracy problem.

The rail was checked for straightness with a machinists straight edge because I could actually see the rail bending with the naked eye when snugging the front screws. That’s how it was determined that the front was low (it’s usually the back on R700’s) and needed bedding. It was low by .06XX” (have it written down in the garage) which is significant. The rail was then measured with certified brown and sharp calipers which to quote my machinist friend “those are nicer than we use in our shop” and determined to be in spec.

Any more questions from people who think I don’t know what I’m doing?
 
It's .060" off, you have a 1/16" of epoxy under the front of the rail?

Definitely interested in what this rifle builder has to say once they see that. Even if it is bedded, I wonder how much if any tension there is on the optic when installing and removing it. Be nice if you had a fixture to mount the action in and use a dial indicator to see if there is any tension on the optic as it's tightened or loosened.

I'd be willing to bet this is something simple that we are simply not seeing as a potential problem.
 
It's .060" off, you have a 1/16" of epoxy under the front of the rail?

Definitely interested in what this rifle builder has to say once they see that. Even if it is bedded, I wonder how much if any tension there is on the optic when installing and removing it. Be nice if you had a fixture to mount the action in and use a dial indicator to see if there is any tension on the optic as it's tightened or loosened.

I'd be willing to bet this is something simple that we are simply not seeing as a potential problem.

That’s correct. JB Kwik was used as I always use for bedding rails because it has 9000+psi compression strength. I’ve bedded hundreds of R700 based rails for myself and others and have never had it present an issue.

The rail is straight as mounted with the bedding and was confirmed with a straight edge and feeler gauges as I always do after bedding a base to confirm it’s not deforming. A fixture is not required to see if the rail is out of whack.
 
I'd bet that the positive publicity that will come from them going to bat for someone that got shafted will outweigh any negative publicity the Bergarbage fanboys who would likely never hire a custom shop for work will see anyway.

You seem to be very bothered by all of this for some reason as well as the fact that I'm not just willing to take the L and let this go. Why is that? Are you a Bergara owner that's bothered by the negative publicity towards a brand you own, are you someone thats too weak to stand up for yourself, or is it something else?
:ROFLMAO:
 
And exactly how would this be facilitated and of what benefit would it be of mine? What qualifies you to go over the rifle any more than myself? Are you a gunsmith? Do you have any sort of of professional background that qualifies you as knowledgeable that Bergara or a judge would give a single thought about?

Are you going to drive or fly to me out of the goodness of your heart to put another set of eyes on it?
Thanks for confirming suspicions, post # 145 should have been heeded.
If its a stick problem hope you get it corrected, if its otherwise hope that is corrected as well.
 
Thanks for confirming suspicions, post # 145 should have been heeded.
If its a stick problem hope you get it corrected, if its otherwise hope that is corrected as well.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions that you don’t have any sort of background that qualifies you to inspect a rifle any more than me.
 

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Not all Bergara's are Bergarbage. Just shot this at 200 yds a couple hours ago, same Bergara HMR in 7mm PRC. Ran out of ammo so its only 3 rather than 5.

Measures 1.25 center to center, so thats just above .5 MOA. The wind was whipping pretty well or I think I could have tightened it up a bit. It's also hit just outside 1 MOA at a mile.


1714420444203.png
 
Dude I got some fucking banana bread at work today dude hell yea my mom told me that if I like wait for things then like good things will happen like getting banana bread at work today dude hell yea so it just goes to show that waiting for good things is like worth it dude but there are like a lot of bad things in this world dude like fucking Berretta dude hell no buying a Bergara and it shoots like fucking shit dude, hell no dude buying A FUCKING SAVAGE AND THE EXTRACTOR TAKES A FUCKING SHIT AT A FUCKING MATCH DUDE WHILE ALL THE OTHER FUCKING DUDES ARE LIKE LAUGHING AT YOU DUDE HELL NO BUT BANANA BREAD AT FUCKING WORK DUDE HELL YEA DUDE HELL YEA
1714426305905.gif
 
That was measured and checked when it was installed. I had to sub another 6-48 screw I had around because the shorty that came with the Seekins rail was too short once the front was bedded and didn’t even have 1 full thread of engagement and the longer one was too long and would have bottomed out.

That would make zero difference anyway and all it would do is booger up the threads on the tennon and the screw and not properly clamp the rail, it would have zero effect on accuracy. There’s QC barrel systems that put tension on the barrel in similar ways to hold it (Terminus Zeus is one) and at least 50% of AR-15 gas blocks have similar set screws half way down the barrel than are tightened 10inlbs higher so if that type of pressure doesn’t present an issue on those applications then it sure as hell isn’t going to present an issue from a little 6-48 contacting a tennon at 15in lbs.

The second screw back that would contact the top bolt lug or the front action screw that would contact the bottom lug is what would cause an accuracy problem.

The rail was checked for straightness with a machinists straight edge because I could actually see the rail bending with the naked eye when snugging the front screws. That’s how it was determined that the front was low (it’s usually the back on R700’s) and needed bedding. It was low by .06XX” (have it written down in the garage) which is significant. The rail was then measured with certified brown and sharp calipers which to quote my machinist friend “those are nicer than we use in our shop” and determined to be in spec.

Any more questions from people who think I don’t know what I’m doing?
C'mon man! You either came on here just to rant, troll, or look for sympathy - which would be crazy to come here looking for sympathy!
 
I really hate to bash a fellow, but…

When you purchase a product you are terribly unsatisfied with, why would you purchase another and another and another??? (Of the same brand)

fellows who repeatedly spend good bucks and stuff they hate, and then complain about what rotten luck they have really tickle me. I suppose, a life long career working with the Developmentally Disabled, gives me a prospective of just how smart those folks are and some of us aren't.

So, OP, wise up, cut your loses and try a different path, because whatever you are doing now, obviously isn’t working for you.

As @Long Range 338 said, you’ve come to the wrong place for sympathy brother.