• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Which short action magnum?

I have a 6.5 SST(Sherman Short Tactical) on a short action and I use ARC mags with a 2.980 COAL. I load it at 2.910. I've been really happy with it. It's a long range hunting rifle and I've been shooting 147gr ELDMs at 3000fps for the last 5 years antelope hunting. Besides the proprietary brass made by ADG it's a perfect round for me. Super easy to load for and really easy to tune. 54gr H1000. I've been thinking about building a lightweight hunting rifle in 7 SST. Something like an Anti or Nanook with a 1:8 twist, 20-22" barrel. Looking for a sweet spot between 7SAW and 7SAUM to shoot copper bullets in a lightweight handy rifle.
 
Geno C. said:
The added brass availability is definitely nice. But it’s still not Lapua.

The draw to the 7-6.5prc is pretty easy to find when you look at why it was made to begin with. Fclass shooters have been looking for the best case to push a 180gr 7mm bullet at 2850-2950fps with the least amount of powder.
Click to expand...

I thought about adding that caveat to my original post. Outside of specific reasons for F-Class, I don't see the point. I can't see it catching on for hunting or practical shooting..

And just an interesting note, but Alex Wheeler has said he designed the cartridge with ADG brass in mind.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Geno C.
it was designed around adg because Lapua hadn’t made prc brass at the time.

I built a hunting rifle in 7-6.5prc on a model 70 with bdl bottom metal. Can easily do 3” oal
 
  • Like
Reactions: cornhusker86
Geno C. said:
A wsm will hold more powder than the saum with the bullet seated to the same length.
Click to expand...
Is it enough of an improvement to choose the WSM over the SAUM or PRC when you factory in brass availability and quality?

How does the 300WSM stack up? I'm guessing at a 3" COAL you'll be getting heavier bullets for more energy but worse ballistics that a 180gr ELD/Hybrid?
 
As a data point. Factory 200gr federal ammo is 2800fps. Handload berger 210gr are the same 2800fps. 178gr ELDX are 3043fps.
 
jbuck88 said:
As a data point. Factory 200gr federal ammo is 2800fps. Handload berger 210gr are the same 2800fps. 178gr ELDX are 3043fps.
Click to expand...
Is this 300wsm in a short action?
If so what brass are you using?
 
Yes. Mag length for hunting. I think nosler brass for those reloads. I grabbed a few boxes of ADG to use as well. So I'd have to check my note book to be positive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: beetroot
beetroot said:
Is it enough of an improvement to choose the WSM over the SAUM or PRC when you factory in brass availability and quality?

How does the 300WSM stack up? I'm guessing at a 3" COAL you'll be getting heavier bullets for more energy but worse ballistics that a 180gr ELD/Hybrid?
Click to expand...
Enough to go wsm over saum is all personal. We’re really just splitting hairs at this point when comparing the 2 in the same caliber.

Really there are 2 main reasons to pick a 30 over a 7 in these short mags. Heavier bullet for more energy on target, and longer barrel life.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jbuck88 and beetroot
I, my wife, and kids have been shooting/hunting with the 7-WSM for several years now. Killed a pile of Alaska game with this cartridge! (all on a R-700 short action clone receivers-custom short throat reamer) I feel this is the perfect combination off bullet weight, impact velocity and shoot ability in a lighter weight hunting rifle. I currently have enough 7 WSM to get me through the 3 current 7 WSM barrels on our rifles now but due to the nonexistent 7 WSM brass let alone any kind of premium brass available has me looking into options for the future… Here is a rough comparison chart for different variants of 7 short mag (missing 7 Sherman Short Magnum and 7 FCP) but will give you the idea. All percentage loss measurements where based off the 7-WSM due to it being the largest.

The 7 WSM and the 300/7 WSM where ran through a small base Full length die so probably reduced case compacity slightly, the 6.5/7 PRC and 7 SAUM were neck sized only.



True case capacity to me is with the desired bullet seated at desired length! 7 short mags.jpg
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: wind gypsy, jbuck88, Geno C. and 1 other person
907Lapua said:
I, my wife, and kids have been shooting/hunting with the 7-WSM for several years now. Killed a pile of Alaska game with this cartridge! (all on a R-700 short action clone receivers-custom short throat reamer) I feel this is the perfect combination off bullet weight, impact velocity and shoot ability in a lighter weight hunting rifle. I currently have enough 7 WSM to get me through the 3 current 7 WSM barrels on our rifles now but due to the nonexistent 7 WSM brass let alone any kind of premium brass available has me looking into options for the future… Here is a rough comparison chart for different variants of 7 short mag (missing 7 Sherman Short Magnum and 7 FCP) but will give you the idea. All percentage loss measurements where based off the 7-WSM due to it being the largest.

The 7 WSM and the 300/7 WSM where ran through a small base Full length die so probably reduced case compacity slightly, the 6.5/7 PRC and 7 SAUM were neck sized only.



True case capacity to me is with the desired bullet seated at desired length!View attachment 8413051
Click to expand...
I'm saving this!

Ivbeen planning to to a 7 something for a while now and never could find out realistic comparisons as discussion usually just turn into "short action is dumb" and not provide SA info.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Im2bent, jbuck88 and 907Lapua
Just wait for the CDG and get a 7mm PRC barrel, it’s the new 7mm easy button. I sweated over 7mm’s for quite some time and finally had landed on the 7ss right about the Rich changed the reamer dimensions. After that I said piss on it and went PRC and have never looked back.
If you truely are stuck on a mag feeding in a short action with high bc bullets the Sherman shorts are the best answer. Just make sure your smith is using the B reamer and you get the dies to match.
 
Hondo1 said:
Just wait for the CDG and get a 7mm PRC barrel, it’s the new 7mm easy button. I sweated over 7mm’s for quite some time and finally had landed on the 7ss right about the Rich changed the reamer dimensions. After that I said piss on it and went PRC and have never looked back.
If you truely are stuck on a mag feeding in a short action with high bc bullets the Sherman shorts are the best answer. Just make sure your smith is using the B reamer and you get the dies to match.
Click to expand...
Did the b reamer fix the issues ?
 
Sherman sold to DI precision. If you have or have had any problems with a Sherman get a hold of them.
 
OP, don't waste your time with the Sherman Short Mags, complete cluster fuck scenario of the chamber designer vs the brass manufacturer and the customer paying for it all.

My crew fell into the hype trap of the Sherman Short Mags of pushing heavy-for caliber bullets at belted-mag speeds and had five rifles built. Not one of those oversized chambered rifles would produce marketed speeds without expanding the undersized ADG brass case heads and primer pockets, forcing you to reduce your loads, contradictory to your purpose for the Sherman chamberings. My 7mm-08 AI's and 7 SAW's will do the exact same thing with the same bullets as these Shermans we built, but with Lapua Palma brass that will last countless firings.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Earnhardt and jbuck88
If the B chamber fixes all their stupid shit and will do EXACTLY as advertised and survive, great, go for it, but we won't chamber another one while the WSMs are available.
 
The Sherman's are a interesting topic that I can't quite wrap my head around. The way to make a bullet go faster down the barrel is to increase or sustain the pressure pushing it longer. You can do that with shorter fatter cases to optimize powder burn with faster powders or slower powders and longer cases and barrels.

So with case design and capacity being close the only way I can see the Sherman making improvements is by adding more pressure. Or more realisticly hiding pressure signs better.

Add to it that people were having issues and it's enough to steer me away. Not saying it's not a good design, just I don't understand what it offers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Earnhardt and Clownbuster
Clownbuster said:
OP, don't waste your time with the Sherman Short Mags, complete cluster fuck scenario of the chamber designer vs the brass manufacturer and the customer paying for it all.

My crew fell into the hype trap of the Sherman Short Mags of pushing heavy-for caliber bullets at belted-mag speeds and had five rifles built. Not one of those oversized chambered rifles would produce marketed speeds without expanding the undersized ADG brass case heads and primer pockets, forcing you to reduce your loads, contradictory to your purpose for the Sherman chamberings. My 7mm-08 AI's and 7 SAW's will do the exact same thing with the same bullets as these Shermans we built, but with Lapua Palma brass that will last countless firings.
Click to expand...
This must have been Pre-B reamer. The newest iteration of chambering and brass works as advertised. A good buddy is pushing his 7SS with 184 Hybrids 3000+ with RL26.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Clownbuster
NiteQwill said:
This must have been Pre-B reamer. The newest iteration of chambering and brass works as advertised. A good buddy is pushing his 7SS with 184 Hybrids 3000+ with RL26.
Click to expand...
That's correct sir.
That's great, they're able to get there with one powder choice that's the most overpriced and impossible to find.
 
Geno C. said:
A 7wsm with 190 atips crammed deep to fit a short action stomps on the 6.5prc with 147s. You don’t have to have all the bullet hanging out of the front of the case to make it work.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Just like everyone being scared of bullet jump. Some of the most accurate ammo/rifle combos I have jump bullets over .100"

Ern
 
  • Like
Reactions: jetmd, 907Lapua, Geno C. and 1 other person
NiteQwill said:
VV is available and not hard to find. While, you're not gonna find those speeds with VV powder, it's an alternative.
Click to expand...
Correct again, just wish using they didn't come at the expense of reduced barrel life. But 100% agree, VV is a great option looking for both speed and accuracy
 
  • Like
Reactions: NiteQwill
Guys have found a perfect combo in the 7fcp with n555. I wouldn’t hesitate to try any V powders.

That being said, with the 7wsm around, I don’t see the draw to the Sherman 7
 
NiteQwill said:
Yup. I'm running N565 or RL26 and I've had great success running 184s at 2700-2800. Which is all the speed I need for my application.
Click to expand...
I also run at the bottom end to preserve barrel life. I don’t know why people have issues with the caliber in the /B spec.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NiteQwill
www.creedmoorsports.com

ADG 300 Winchester Short Magnum Brass

ADG 300 Winchest Short Magnum Brass 50 Ct Box Caliber: .30 Finish: Standard Case Weight: 233.9 grains (average) Case Volume: 79.8 grains of H20 (average) Neck Wall Thickness:: .0157 inch (average) About ADG: Headquartered in Elizabethtown, KY and owned and operated by eight...
www.creedmoorsports.com
 
  • Like
Reactions: Geno C.
For short action, mag feeding, I say 25 or 6.5 PRC or 25/6.5/7 SAUM. I think the sherman SS case design is actually ideal but wouldn't plan on pushing them any faster, if even as fast, as a SAUM if I did go that direction.

I have a 300 WSM hunting rifle. Used it more than any other hunting rifle for a number of years but the more I shoot the less i want to deal with 8# 30 cal magnums. That amount of snort just isn't necessary. That and the fact that you're not going to outperform the high BC 7s with a sub 3" COAL 300 WSM when it comes to drop and drift anyway. I'd have no qualms about using a 257, 264, or 284 bullet for elk.
 
Last edited:
Clownbuster said:
Correct again, just wish using they didn't come at the expense of reduced barrel life. But 100% agree, VV is a great option looking for both speed and accuracy
Click to expand...

Are you referring to VV and barrel life? If so is it just based on the temp ratings? N555 for example doesn't appear to burn that hot
 
wind gypsy said:
Are you referring to VV and barrel life? If so is it just based on the temp ratings? N555 for example doesn't appear to burn that hot
Click to expand...
In comparison to RL and Hodgdon powders, VV is certainly more cooler burning. Makes it ideal for a substitute for 'more popular' US products that you find more common on the shelf.
 
I have a 6.5SS also and have killed lots of stuff with it shooting 122gr solids at 3400fps. I'd still build a 300wsm first for hunting.
 
NiteQwill said:
In comparison to RL and Hodgdon powders, VV is certainly more cooler burning. Makes it ideal for a substitute for 'more popular' US products that you find more common on the shelf.
Click to expand...
That’s over generalizing though. N530, 540, 550, 560, and 570 are some of the hottest burning powders out there.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Clownbuster, Geno C., moosemeat and 1 other person
wind gypsy said:
That’s over generalizing though. N530, 540, 550, 560, and 570 are some of the hottest burning powders out there.
Click to expand...
I only use N540 in my hunting rifles with very low rounds, burns really hot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

U
Bolt action build guidance
Replies
54
Views
2K
ConLaRoy
C
F
Long action magazine kit for short magnums?
Replies
2
Views
412
Franko
F
slewdog_hunts
Tikka T3X Switch Barrel Build - 6.5 PRC & 7 PRC
Replies
22
Views
2K
slewdog_hunts
slewdog_hunts
C
Tikka T3 Lite Short Action Magnum & Best AICS Mags
Replies
11
Views
1K
NewsShooter
NewsShooter
Heston McBride
New Rifle Build - 6.5 PRC or 300 WSM.. or others?
Replies
11
Views
1K
2c1fr
2
Top Bottom
Back