Range Report 6.5 SAUM vs. 7mm Rem SAUM vs. 7mm WSM

[WT1]

I just purchased a Winchester style action with a 300WSM bolt face for a build I'd like to complete. Was wondering if anyone had any recommended calibers? I've seen on a variety of pages that the bolt face is compatible with 300WSM, 270WSM, 7MM WSN, and a number of others to include 6.5 SAUM or 7mm Rem SAUM, of which the last two are the most interesting to me because I've read they have longer barrel lives than the standard WSM's and their ballistics are better.

Of the two, 6.5 SAUM or 7mm Rem SAUM, does anyone have any recommendations or suggestions? It seems finding brass for the 6.5 SAUM is next to impossible (but you can neck them down from 270WSM or another cartridge), but brass is readily available for the 7mm Rem SAUM.

Which has a longer barrel life? Which is the better long range hunting round (deer, elk).

Plan is to put either a Krieger, Rock Creek, or Brux barrel on it. Any suggestions about barrels, countour, rifling, etcetera would be well received.

Thanks.

 

[fdkay]

The 7mm will have slightly better barrel life.
That being said, if this is a hunting rifle, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
It isn't that their ballistics are better than the WSM, but the case design is a bit more efficient and the longer neck helps to slow down throat erosion.
Slow burning powders are your friend (such as H1000) but neither are noted for long barrel life.
They are both excellent hunting rounds, both will do the job. if Elk is on the menu, I would lean towards the 7mm and the 175 grain bullets.
That being said, My Dad took two nice elk with a 6.5x55.
Any of those barrels mentioned would be excellent choices, twist will depend on the bullet weight and profile you want to shoot, but a 1-8 in 6.5 and 1-8.5 in the 7mm would work well.
As far as brass for the 6.5, GA Precision sells it, Hornady makes it.

 

[WT1]

Brass is an issue for the 6.5 SAUM though there are a couple of videos I watched recently where the brass is necked down from 270 WSM I believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhyjQ6m-0WM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRgwGTFxsJo

 

[Ledzep]

6.5 SAUM brass is kind of an issue. Hornady is doing batches of it.. and the Hornady brass is okayish. I've had decent results so far, but have also wrecked a few cases that I wouldn't have expected to let go in either smaller calibers or with Lapua brass. I haven't tried anything else, though. You can also resize 7mm SAUM brass and neck turn.

I was debating between 6.5 SAUM, 7 SAUM, and 300 WSM for a long time and went with the 6.5. I'm glad I did. Flattest shooting of the 3, and lowest recoil. Brass is the only downer, but I think it is for all 3 of those calibers.

 

[WT1]

Can't locate the Hornady brass for the 6.5, only Georgia Precision's. No problem finding brass for the others, 7mm SAUM and 300 WSM.

 

[Ledzep]

http://www.gaprecision.net/ga-store/hornady-6-5-gap-4s-1000-count-6.html

That's the hornady stuff ^^^^. George Gardner at GA precision puts in a bulk order to Hornady to make batches of it. Things may have changed, but 300wsm and 7SAUM brass were both hard to find when I was putting the 6.5 together. I haven't looked since then. A lot of things in the industry are easier to get a hold of now, though.

 

[WT1]

Kind of leaning towards the 7mm because of the BC's on the newer projectiles. Hornady and Berger both have BC's in the sevens. That's incredible. Even the 6.5 BC's are in the sixes.

 

[Ledzep]

It's all a tradeoff. BC (and recoil as a side-effect with heavier bullets) vs. speed. Depends on bullet and barrel length, also. It all comes out pretty close for "useful" (above trans-sonic) range. From what I remember they (6.5 saum, 7saum, 300 wsm) were all within about 150yd of each other, all near 2000yd at my elevation. I mean you can fudge the numbers however you want depending on bullets used and what you think speed will be.

Really depends on what you want to do and how much you want to shoot it. The 7mm is going to kick more. The 6.5 SAUM is approaching the limit for me where I can shoot 100-150 rounds in a match and not hate it by the end of the day. I've shot some 300wsms and I'm done in about 30 rounds. I'd imagine the 7mm is in between. A muzzle brake or suppressor mitigates a lot of that, though.

7mm might have a slight edge on barrel life, but most everyone I've heard/read about burning a 6.5 barrel out are doing it in 2300+ rounds. Some over 3000 rounds before they call it quits.

With Hornady's 147gr ELD @ 3050-3150fps, you have a laser beam. Same with the high BC 7's, though. It's a close call. Either way it's cheating within 1000yd, but I'm a little girl and went with flatter shooting and less recoil. A 180-195gr bullet may be "better" for BIG game, but a 140-150gr 6.5mm is more than enough for Elk, which is the biggest animal I expect to encounter.

 

[WT1]

I wonder if you can use Hornady's ELD 147 in 6.5 to hunt with?

 

[Ledzep]

I'm shooting 140 ELDM's for hunting, and shot 140 Amax's before that successfully. It's hit or miss with what you read from people-- with any bullet. You've always got guys that swear by them, and guys that "will never buy them again"... Shot placement is huge, and every animal is different, but 40 yards is the farthest I've ever had anything go from where it was hit.

 

[WT1]

If you read in the Sierra reloading manual about the history of the 7mm WSM, which I am also considering since the action for the build has a 300WSM bolt face and it's easier to get the brass and rounds, the manual says that 7mm WSM was designed for projectiles in the 140 to 160 size range and larger might be problematic as you might run out of room for the charge. But there a numerous vids on Youtube with people shooting up to 183's. I wonder if that is a problem with the 7mm RSAUM as well? I talked with Whidden about his dies and you can simply run 7mm SAUM through the 6.5 SAUM dies he makes with some Imperial sizing wax and there you have it. That is slick. 6.5 seems like the way to go if the 7mm case is too small to accommodate the 180 ELD's. I like that BC on the 180's for the 7mm. There is of course the 175 ELD-X with a BC of .689. But that BC is still between 12 and 14 percent lower than the 180 7mm's, depending upon velocity.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

I wonder if you can use Hornady's ELD 147 in 6.5 to hunt with?

I know you can kill several truckloads of game with the Lapua 139 Scenar

 

[FCS]

WT1 - What action did you get? What is maximum OAL that action supports? If you have a Montana Rifleman 1999, that mag box allows for a 3.125" OAL which means you can seat bigger bullets longer. 7WSM with bigger bullets and 2.830" max OAL hamstrings that cartridge a bit, 3.100" OAL changes the game significantly.

 

[WT1]

WT1 - What action did you get? What is maximum OAL that action supports? If you have a Montana Rifleman 1999, that mag box allows for a 3.125" OAL which means you can seat bigger bullets longer. 7WSM with bigger bullets and 2.830" max OAL hamstrings that cartridge a bit, 3.100" OAL changes the game significantly.

It's an FN Patrol Bolt Rifle action made in Fredericksburg, VA. New. Came with their standard rail and a Winchester 70 trigger, which is adjustable. Comes to my FFL early next week. I prefer a claw extractor to the other bolts. Nothing like a claw extractor when you are hunting around dangerous game.

It has an internal magazine, so I am guessing that is its max OAL. I found a kit though on an online gun auction web site. The kit allows you to change out the hinged floor plate for a DBM system and the guy says the magazine is an extra eighth of an inch longer than the internal magazine. But they are 308 mags and I don't know if I can fit the SAUM or WSM cases in it.

I was not aware Wisconsin had so many excellent barrel makers. Plan is to put a Krieger, Rock Creek, Brux, Broughton, Bartlein, or another brand barrel on it. Going to weigh the action when it gets here to help decide barrel contour. Already know somebody at Krieger so that is probably the way I'll go and they all make the highest quality products.

 

[WT1]

I know you can kill several truckloads of game with the Lapua 139 Scenar

What kind of range are you getting out of the Scenar's?

 

[FCS]

Mag box from a Win 70 CRPF action, factory barrel in 300WSM, measures 3.050" so you could easily run 3.030" OAL from that hinged floor plate set up.
6.5 SAUM
7 SAUM
300 SAUM
I don't see anything in North America walking away from a reasonably placed bullet from a 6.5mm, 7mm or 30 cal SAUM. If it has big claws, big teeth, weights same or more than you and has a nasty attitude then I'd go up in bullet diameter. Deer and elk, 6.5mm is going to drop animals just fine though I'd be tempted to go 7mm for higher retained energy at longer distances. Then again, how many shots are you taking on game at distances >600 yards?

If you are building rifle from ground up, pick bullet that is best suited to majority of rounds that will be fired and define the OAL that will fit magazine system. Gunsmith can do chamber around dummy round so you have "ideal" amount of jump, little room in magazine for reliable feeding and you have combination for optimized accuracy. Don't get too hung up on the biggest, highest BC bullets because if you have those buried in case to fit magazine, you'll be quite a bit slower in velocity. 7 SAUM for example, the 162 Hornady gives up little to the 180 Berger in terms of ballistics inside of 1K when loaded to run from an Accurate Magazine AICS clone magazine max OAL of 2.975" for the WSM / SAUM.

Barrel life, generally speaking the bigger the bore the better the barrel life for same size case volume. Splitting hairs here because unless you are shooting F-open, accuracy requirement is 0.5 MOA @ 1K and shooting enough to wear out a barrel or 3 a year it becomes a quasi-moot point. What is your accuracy requirement to say barrel is shot out, barrel must be replaced? How many rounds a year are you expecting to shoot? Shooting comps? Hunting rifle where you are shooting 20-40 rds a range session, not shooting too many rds in rapid succession, do this 2X a month for 960ish rds a year then you could probably expect barrel to last you 3-5 years. Lotta variables come into play for barrel life. Barrel life is up when you can no longer get desired / needed accuracy after barrel cleaning, tweak to load, etc. Barrels are consumables, don't get too hung up on barrel life. Like most things, more performance comes at a price. Larger the case volume, smaller the bore the faster a barrel will wear out. Going to wear out a barrel a year? Get your own reamer and gauges so you can get the "same" chamber each time you rebarrel. Win 70 / FN actions have integral recoil lug, have multiple barrels chambered at one time and swap out as needed; will need barrel vise & action wrench.

You may want to consider the new Hornady 6.5 PRC as in theory you'd have factory ammo available, brass is currently available from GA Precision.

 

[WT1]

Just digging around in a search engine and can't even find 7mm WSM brass for sale. 7m RSAUM is available and you can make 6.5 SAUM from the 7mm RSAUM. But there is plenty of ammunition for the 7mm WSM and little if any for the 7 RSAUM or the 6.5 SAUM.

 

[mummra1981]

I have 2 7 rsaums I got from a friend that wants me to get more into long range. I have found so that brass is rare. I have not looked for the other calibers, but midsouth shooters supply seems to be the only ones stocking 7saum. They have norma and nosler there for pretty good prices compared to what people are trying to sell it for in forums or on gunbroker. As for the recoil I have Krieger heavy varmint barrels on both and the guns weight in at the 10-12 pound range, with that weight the recoil is very mild and I can shoot all day long with no sore shoulder as opposed to my 30-06 which I usually can only to about 20 rounds before I am done with that gun. The accuracy has been great at less than 1/2 moa with nosler trophy grade ammo so far. I will be getting the guns out this weekend to start testing handloads.

 

[mpk1996]

the 6.5 saum is awesome and the 143 eld-x is a great hunting bullet, with great BC. that being said, the 7 wsm and 7 rsaum do have factory ammo avail. so, if you want/need to pick up a box at the sporting good store, you can. the 6.5 saum is a custom only. as far as brass for the 6.5, GA precision has it, and so does OTM. you can also make some really nice brass from nosler 7 rsaum pretty easy. you just run it through the die a couple of times and neck turn (or not depending on your chamber). I have a 7mm WSM barrel for my 6.5 saum rifle, thinking I would want the "big 7mm" for hunting, but have never used it. I should prob sell it, lol, but you know how that goes

 

[coldboremiracle]

7SAUM is a destroyer of worlds when coupled with 175+ grain bullets. I run mine with the Sierra 183 SMK, at just over 3000FPS, incredibly flat (6.1 MIL to 1K) and will take an elk off its feet when it gets there. (ask me how I know )

 

[MShort]

I am running 180 ELD-M's in my 7 WSM at 2.94" from Accurate Mags. Results with R26 are 1/4" groups at just over 3000fps and no pressure signs. 200yd zero puts me at 5.8 mils to 1k.

works for me

 

[Ledzep]

140 ELDM @ 3155 is about the same, 6.0 to 1000 at my altitude with a 100yd zero. 147 ELD @ 3100 shaves off another tenth. IMO it's all recoil and energy between the 7mm and 6.5 SAUMs. Not a huge difference. Magical 1000 ft-lb and 1800fps all the way to 1000+ with either.

 

[MShort]

I couldn't agree more Ledzep! Any difference between the 6.5 mag and their 7mm counterparts is academic at best. If your already dialing who cares if it takes a few more clicks. Pick whichever one makes you happy at the time and have fun. Targets and animals will never know the difference between the 2.