7 mm / .284 Win issues with Wilson Bushing Full Length Sizing Die

[hattori.hanzo]

Hi all,

today I've messed up my Wilson Bushing Full Length Sizing Die. The bottom of my 7mm/.284 Win Peterson case torn off.
The attempt to remove the case from the die resulted in the loss of the die and the .314 Redding titan nitride bushing.

I've had no issues with full length sizing new cases at all! They do fit into the die very well. After the first firing, the last 0.5 inch of the case did not fit into the die anymore. I've removed the bushing, but it still did not fit without an unhealthy amount of force. I've solved the issue with a lot of Redding die wax, but still need too much force pulling out the case of the die.
I've also tried to use 1:8 case lube with Lanoline and Isopropyl alcohol to get better lubrication. This did not work at all and the result was the damaged Wilson die with the case stuck in it.

P1 new case: 12.65 mm, once fired/not sized: 12.70 mm, Wilson full length sized: 12.67 mm
(see https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uploads/tdcc/tab-i/284-win-201110-en.pdf)
I live in Europe, so my rifle is not SAAMI spec but CIP (minimum). In general, this is no issue.

Additionally, I do not get consistent head spacing, because there is too much force to pull out the cases from the die.

Is there a chance that the Wilson die is too tight for the Peterson cartridge? Any other ideas?

Best
Uwe

 

[30cal user]

measure your chamber and brass +.200 from base and see what you get and measure the sizing die

 

[hattori.hanzo]

I've now ordered simply a Forster die to see if just the combination of CIP min chamber and Wilson die was not ok.

The cases are all about +.200 from the base. This fits to the chamber. Just the Wilson die seems to be very tight!

 

[918v]

The cases are all about +.200 from the base.

What does that mean?

 

[918v]

Generally, when you get a new die, you should remove all preservative lube. Then, you should break in the new die by incrementally sizing a case: you lube the case, run it partially into the die, withdraw, then relube the case and run the case a little deeper into the die and so on. After several attempts to size the case it will go in all the way. Then you take a second case and do it over again. You will find the second case is easier to size. The third case should be no problem as the die is broken in by then.

 

[hattori.hanzo]

I‘ll go for this process with the new Forster and Triebel dies. Basically, I did this with the damaged Wilson die too, withput knowing this is important. All my new cases has been sized as a starting point. This was no problem at all. The issue came up with the sizing of the once fired cases.

 

[MarkyMark007]

Additionally, I do not get consistent head spacing, because there is too much force to pull out the cases from the die.

this is not because of pull-out force, but because you don't have firm contact of die and shellholder.

but your willson die can be a little small, or not polished inside, or it is peterson brass just too thick...?

 

[hattori.hanzo]

The die and the shell holder should not have contact, since I‘d like to have at least .001“ shoulder bump for my chamber.
I assume its a combination of the die and the brass or so ething is wrong with the die.

 

[MarkyMark007]

The die and the shell holder should not have contact, since I‘d like to have at least .001“ shoulder bump for my chamber.

yes, wrong cutted die, like in 90% of the time. if you are lucky, you can change this with redding competition shellholders.

 

[mmlook]

post pictures of your die and brass before and after firing

almost sounds like you have a .284 shehane chamber

 

[hattori.hanzo]

I have a .284 Win chamber for sure. In Germany each new rifle gets checked against CIP (European version of your SAAMI). So they have an eye on the CIP measurements and max pressure. Without this check you do not own a legal gun in Germany.
Additional we are not allowed to cut chambers by pur own, you need to have a gunshmith for this job.

I‘ll add some pictures of new and once fired brass before sizing here by tomorrow, as soon as I am back home.

I recently bought a Triebel and a Forster sizing die with Triebel shell holder. I am pretty excited about the results.

 

[hattori.hanzo]

I have a .284 Win chamber for sure. In Germany each new rifle gets checked against CIP (European version of your SAAMI). So they have an eye on the CIP measurements and max pressure. Without this check you do not own a legal gun in Germany.
Additional we are not allowed to cut chambers by pur own, you need to have a gunshmith for this job.

I‘ll add some pictures of new and once fired brass before sizing here by tomorrow, as soon as I am back home.

I recently bought a Triebel and a Forster sizing die with Triebel shell holder. I am pretty excited about the results.

Here are the photos:

I have tried tu pull out the brass with the pliers … no chance at all!



From left to right: .284 Peterson new, fired, sized (Wilson sizing die from above, before damage)

 

[mmlook]

measure the neck to shoulder junction diameter of your fired brass
.284 win should be no more than .478"/12.141mm
.284 shehane will be about .485"/12.319mm

the fact that your new brass fits in the wilson die,
means there's likely nothing wrong with your wilson die.

 

[hattori.hanzo]

It measures .4785“ st the largest diameter for a fired brass / not sized.



This is exact value for P2 parameter of a regular .284 Win according to CIP (cartridge maxi): https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uploads/tdcc/tab-i/284-win-201110-en.pdf

Compared to the .284 Shehane specs according to CIP it doesn‘t look like a Shehane chamber: https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uploads/tdcc/tab-i/284-shehane-200908-en.pdf

 

[mmlook]

It measures .4785“ st the largest diameter for a fired brass / not sized.

View attachment 7944075

But this is exact the min diameter for P2 for a regular .284 Win according to CIP.

the reamer prints i can find have that between .474-.475” max

I would clean the die, and try again

to press the piece of brass out of the die,
use a punch and a shallow socket or something in a press or a vice

 

[MarkyMark007]

look if the die is polisched inside?

maybe you just get bad die... try with other die if you can.

 

[hattori.hanzo]

Yesterday, I've sized some bras with my new Präzipress Heavy 120 and a Forster die (with neck lapped to .314"). This works like a charm: very soft without any force. This was very impressive. Furthermore, I need much(!) less die wax to get the brass pushed into the die.

I assume the Wilson die is somehow not ok with my brass.

I've ordered a Triebel full length sizing die as well, to get rid of the SAAMI / CIP differences, which might be a reason for these problems as well. One additional reason is for the switch is, the Forster die is clearly less well-made than the Wilson. This starts with the threads and ends with the surface finish. So I definitely do not stay with Forster.

Thank you all for your support.

 

[MarkyMark007]

I dont think you have SAAMI/CIP differences.

manufacturers can have new/old reamers for dies and new/old reamers for rifle chamber. and tolerances in all this processes.

my forster seating die also sux, but only from outside you can't tell if the sizing process will be bad...

 

[hattori.hanzo]

look if the die is polisched inside?

maybe you just get bad die... try with other die if you can.

I’ll have a look as soon as I have removed the brass. Yesterday, Forster did run very good in my Präzipress with the Peterson cartridges.

I dont think you have SAAMI/CIP differences.

manufacturers can have new/old reamers for dies and new/old reamers for rifle chamber. and tolerances in all this processes.

my forster seating die also sux, but only from outside you can't tell if the sizing process will be bad...

I agree the measurements of the sized cartridges are good. Just from outside the die is kind of a pain.

 

[B y r o n]

One of these may save the die.

RCBS stuck case remover.

 

[MarkyMark007]

next time you can look for a gunsmith who makes his own dies from the reamer, which is complementary to chamber reamer. in Slovenia we have one.

 

[MarkyMark007]

but anyway, I dont think you can have problems with standard reamers and standard dies. you are just unlucky with this die.