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Benning sniper competition on History Chan

sirhrmechanic

sirhrmechanic

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Feb 23, 2010
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After a several year hiatus looks like the Benning Sniper Competition is back on History. Wed night.

I have mostly given up on HC... But the last times they covered this event, they did a pretty good job of it. Some good teams there and always creative scenarios.

Will be interesting to see how well they do the coverage... Or if they bollix it up.

Looks like Wed at 8 Eastern.

Cheers, Sirhr.
 
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Hope I see somebody I know.

My boss at the SDM school at Ft. Lewis placed somewhere in one in 2012(?) or thereabouts. Was cool to see him on there, sucked I wasn't able to do it with him!

Same guys always win it though, 1st, 2nd, 3rd --SF something or other.
 
Strykervet said:
Hope I see somebody I know.

My boss at the SDM school at Ft. Lewis placed somewhere in one in 2012(?) or thereabouts. Was cool to see him on there, sucked I wasn't able to do it with him!

Same guys always win it though, 1st, 2nd, 3rd --SF something or other.
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Makes sense since they basically have an unlimited budget to shoot all day everyday. Practice makes perfect.
 
Int Sniper Comp winners have come from everywhere over the years. Foreign Nat, SOCOM, Big Green, Nat Guard, AMU, USMC.
2001: CPL Martin Bedard / CPL Mike Gagnon / 1R 22R
2002: SSG Justin Shaffer / SGT Mike Hensley / HHC 1/501
2003: SGT David Kroupa / SPC Kris Hector / 5/19 SFG
2004: SFC Justin Shaffer / SPC Micoh Bates HHC 1/501
2005: SSG Jason Pedro / SSG Bundy Schnell / Nat Guard Sniper School
2006: SSG Mike Rach / SSG Joe Lynch / 3/75th
2007: SFC St. John / SSG Johnson / AMU
2008: SFC St. John / SSG Johnson / AMU
2009: SGT Joshua Huskey / SGT Grant Royal / Camp Pendleton Sniper School
2010: SFC Edmund Hoymeyer / SFC Chance Giannelli / D Co SWTG
2011: MSG Kevin Owens / SFC Terry Gower / 2/3rd SFG
2012: Open Class: SSG Daniel Horner / SPC Tyler Payne / AMU
2012: Service Class: SFC Tony Amerman / SFC Andrew Roy / 2/1 SWTG
2013: SSG Daniel Horner / SPC Tyler Payne / AMU
2014: SFC Travis A. Croy / SSG Rudolph A. Gonsior / 1st SFG
2015: CPL Adam Henery / CPL Dermot Nicholson / Ireland
2016: SGT Saykham Keophalychanh / SGT Nicholas Mitchell / Michigan National Guard
2017: SSG Jon Roque / SGT Brandon Kelley / 3-75th

USCG had a team in the Comp last year
https://www.facebook.com/USArmyISC/photos/rpp.738478106312264/804704219689652/?type=3&theater
USCG.jpg


Tim Kennedy - Some people love him, some people (in the community) are not fans. He brings attention to the Comp, which can have its benefits.

I am glad to see that the Int Sniper Comp is growing, there were some lean times when everything was being run on shoe string!
 
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Tim Kennedy is one "very intense dude..." I don't think he's down on people so much as some just don't handle his intensity all that well.
 
If you will note, his "title" on everything he does in public is "Special Forces Sniper".

Some people in the community take issue with that.

1 - US Army Special Forces are suppossed to be the "Quiet Professionals ", nothing quiet about Tim when it comes to letting everyone know that he is SF.

2 - He goes to the extra effort to add the moniker of "Sniper", which he is qualified to do, but why go to the extra effort to put that out there? There is also some "spirited discusion" about how much of a "special forces sniper" he has been?

Some people feel that he is "overplaying" his military background/credentials to "better his persona" for TV.

There was also the recent incident where he expressed that he felt that age restrictions on firearms was OK in an interview with Lance Armstrong. Given his position, that went over like a turd in the punch bowl, and then he tried to walk it back.

I am not a fan of "drama", but I can see multiple sides of what is going on.
 
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LRShooter101,

As noted, his "intensity" is a little too high for many.

1. There are a lot of "not so quiet" Ex-SF professionals out there. Many have made a lot more money than Kennedy. He is doing what a lot of them do when going public in that they use their background as instant credibilty to get you to come buy what they are selling.

2. Again, to the the quiet or not quiet, you aren't going to sell what he teaches if you don't put out there that you did it. He did deploy mulitple times overseas and does have combat kills as a sniper. Not the most, nor did he last the longest over there. But, he did go and do that. I will also go on to say he is very much an individualist, and that is hard to work with on the teams. Not that he's a bad guy, Just that at some point he felt he might not be moving along fast enough to get done what he wanted. MMA seemed like a good outlet for him. He took top notch skills and put them to use, which is now part of his platform.

I hate to say it, but unless you play it up, you won't be on TV, which relates to him making his money, very long.

I also hate to say it, but most of us pro-2A'ers who love guns, but hate stupidity with guns, are people would like to see some kind of vetting. I do my best when dealing with the public to make good suggestions to people. That doesn't go very far. Any suggestion of any such thing brings the rest of the "2A at all costs" people out. A suggestion is just that. It has no legal bearing on anything just throwing ideas out there. Sadly, at this time, I see almost no other recourse than to have your weapon ready at all times to take anyone out that may present a threat to you, whether they be pro-2A or not. I don't want to see a return to the wild west. Or, at least the wild west as it was portrayed on tv for so many years.

We have our 2A rights but no ones seems to think any of our rights include the responsibility to do the right things. The constitution won't stand forever if we don't protect all of it. Just because you have a right to shoot first doesn't always mean you have to. The 1A includes the right to speak freely, but it doesn't give the right to threaten. People misuse that amendment more than any other, and it destroys lives and careers.

TV has it's own directions and wishes and it's impossible to cover all the right things when you watch it. I think Kennedy does his best. What too many people focus on is his intensity. He has a lot of skills to teach that he bases on what he did in the Army and MMA.
 
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sandwarrior said:
Ex SF, did a lot there. Then got out and did MMA for a while. Did well there too. Somehow got picked up as a "next possible Mike Rowe" type because he did some pretty good videos.
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Also thinks you should be 21 to buy an AR. Said it in Joe Rogans podcast.
 
We could fill pages about Tim, everyone has an opinion, and different strokes for differnt folks!

I would just remind everyone to do your homework before you start drinking any Koolaid!
 
TacticalDillhole said:
Also thinks you should be 21 to buy an AR. Said it in Joe Rogans podcast.
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I understand how that sits wrong with people. I have been criticised for saying people need to learn how to shoot a weapon before being turned loose with it. A lot "looser" standard. Much like driving, even with mandatory training and testing, to various degrees, automobiles are involved in more deaths than firearms. But, does that mean we don't do something to better the situation?

My crtitics point out I'm against the 2A...Nothing could be farther from the truth. I want people to learn to shoot and have fun with it. And, learn to defend themselves. Taking responsibility to train ones self and vet ones self goes against the "2A at all costs" crowd. This is what I'm talking about. No one wants the responsibility, but everyone wants the right.

Tim did make the mistake of saying that without having the benefit of the full context of what we should do to better peoples use of firearms. So, all we can do in the meantime is teach whomever will learn. The rest who don't want to learn are out there and they are a hazard. I want them to learn gun safety, so that all around them can be safe when shooting with them. Mandatory training does not mean denial of the right to keep and bear arms. I don't like age limits as that's a wedge for the anti's to get in and end ownership. It was a popular but misbegotten idea that was thrown out there. Tim didn't come up with it, he repeated it. We can train as young as a student wants to learn. With training, a student not only learns how to handle a firearm safely, but, if included in the training, can learn the consequences of what they can do. I think that's a better way to approach the problem.

Like all things though, trust in ALL the states to follow a reasonable guideline like that is about as productive as pissin' in the wind. CA, MA, DE, MD IL (Chicago, home of gun violence in America) aren't having any of it. Too many people there who think the U.S. Constitution is archaic and outdated.
 
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Missed the first bit.
Now sipping a Stone Hop Revolver IPA and will enjoy watching the rest.

Thanks for the heads up, I never know if anything good is on Tv
 
Getting ready to shoot out of the H-60.
I got to run the mini gun out of a MH-53, but we were just burning up old ammo so it didn't have to go to DRMO.

They have to hit targets.
 
Drinking beer in my hotel watching it now. Not bad, better than anything else on.
 
It deteriorated into melodrama and oh my gosh who going to win... Courses seemed engineered for tv more than for real sniper training value at times.

The time running out on amputee by 3 seconds was just too much stupid drama.

The announcer always talking in feet was total b.s.. A 700 foot shot on steel... Please. Thats a chip shot. He made it sound like 700 yards in high winds.

Last stupidity was that in the final stalk, the dramatic shots... All three showed the same splash on the same red plate.. While announcer guy dramatically yelled hit and fist bumped people... Yes, he was with the teams. They edited in the same hit for every shot...

Last... It was all about 4 darkhorse teams... But I found it odd that the Marine team got nailed on the stalk in lame fashion.... They are better than that. Its like everyone sent,their third string. I'd love some inside baseball from anyone who was there last year or heard the feedback from the participants.

It was tv worth watching only because there was not a John Wayne movie on...

Compared to coverage a few years ago, this one sucked. Just what I would be expected from reality history bs, though.

Overall, after sitting through 2 hours of it.. Gotta say Buffalowinter was spot on. Bollix....

Cheers, sirhr
 

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Yeah, made it about half way through the show. When the shots never went long (700ft? AYFKM?), I turned it off. I'll have to ask a guy at our range if he knows the scoop about who and how they sent folks (he's at the Pendleton Schoolhouse, so he might know).

I also noticed that some of the stages seemed very similar to Franks 2015 SHC (the tower in particular). Saw a lot of PRS bags being toted around on bungees too. At least they're watching the civilians, and picking up what they can that makes sense.
 
SirH wrote " Its like everyone sent their third string. "

Well, that's probably because they did. Often, but not always, guys sent to fill school quota's or do stuff like this, are those assigned to the organization who are not on team's or in operational unit's. I went through a ton of shit to leave a deployed MTT three days early to go to the Olympic Trials in '88. Went right from the MTT to the trials.

You always had to be leery of "Patchfinders". Schools were viewed as an operational distraction and a lot of times people were sent just to get rid of them for a while. I tried like hell to get to MFF, never happened.
 
buffalowinter said:
SirH wrote " Its like everyone sent their third string. "

Well, that's probably because they did. Often, but not always, guys sent to fill school quota's or do stuff like this, are those assigned to the organization who are not on team's or in operational unit's. I went through a ton of shit to leave a deployed MTT three days early to go to the Olympic Trials in '88. Went right from the MTT to the trials.

You always had to be leery of "Patchfinders". Schools were viewed as an operational distraction and a lot of times people were sent just to get rid of them for a while. I tried like hell to get to MFF, never happened.
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I thought HALO was a given for SF'ers going on deployment.
 
And the USMC team that failed the stalk? WTF was up with their ghillie? It looked like a foam mop head dyed green.

On the other hand, I really would love to do that comp/course of fire.

And that Kennedy guy is worse than the bald guy who hosted that weapons show a few years back (special weapons iirc).

Was better than studying for grad school entrance exams, by a hair. Which kind of hair, you decide........
 
Sandwarrior, not sure if HALO is part of required training now or not. Even so, a lot of "required" stuff falls to the wayside due to op-tempo. For example, I never went to SERE, even though "required". When I was active in the late 80's early 90's there was only one HALO team per company and the school was hard to get. I tried to get it right out of the Q course while I was still at Bragg but it didn't happen...much harder for an officer to get...since it is a 1:11 ratio of Tm Ldr to Tm Member. Once you get to a unit, leaving for a school while on a Team was frowned on. Even so, I always had at least two guys in school. A lot of guys would get schools as part of their re-up incentive.
 
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buffalowinter said:
Sandwarrior, not sure if HALO is part of required training now or not. Even so, a lot of "required" stuff falls to the wayside due to op-tempo. For example, I never went to SERE, even though "required". When I was active in the late 80's early 90's there was only one HALO team per company and the school was hard to get. I tried to get it right out of the Q course while I was still at Bragg but it didn't happen...much harder for an officer to get...since it is a 1:11 ratio of Tm Ldr to Tm Member. Once you get to a unit, leaving for a school while on a Team was frowned on. Even so, I always had at least two guys in school. A lot of guys would get schools as part of their re-up incentive.
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It takes a little stopping and thinking about it to realize it's not available all the time. Being in '81-''85 it was kind of a given at that time (how I saw it organized) was teams that could go operational had to have people HALO qualified as it was a need. A skill that could be used world wide. A much lower "need" was SFUWO where it would be teams dedicated to certain regions. I'm thinking too, that in just the time I was in the SOC side was ramping up. And the schools that usually had slots were filled with Rangers, Seals, PJ's/CCT and anybody else on the non-SF side of SOC.

And yeah, I can totally see pertinent personnel participating in "non-command" type training being frowned upon. Until you get where they want you to be and go "WTF?!?!...you don't have this school/that training?" "Why not?" "We need this done." That's when my blood boiled. We needed it done 6 months ago and no one had time... I was really impressed with SF when I was up there. I liked the model of how they did things. But, like anywhere in the Army, someones always in more hurry than they know what they are doing.
 
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Do the SEALs not get an invite or want to participate? I don't think I have seen any of their teams listed for these comps.
 
yeah with the first stage making a huge deal out of some 400 FEET on a full headshot, I thought this was going to be lame. they definitely upped their game after that though. i didn't understand why most of the teams tried to get so close on the last stage, think i'd rather take a long shot than trying to hide from two guys very actively looking for me and knowing i was coming. maybe the target was only visible in close. i also thought they showed the same hit several times on the last stage. a little too much drama, yes, but i liked the show.
 
Yeah, I didn't understand why they talked feet for the first stage, then switched to yards (tower and others), then back to feet for the stalk stage. ...weird.
 
Thought it was okay. The video shots seemed to cut too much. You never got to see one angle for very long.

Of course, I was watching as a tutorial rather than entertainment.

The way the whole thing was filmed didn’t give much perspective as to distance. And I’m not sure why they kept speaking of distance in terms of feet.

I think a better description of the stages would have been good. Show the reading of the stage brief.

I understand they had to pare down a multi-day competition to two hours, though.
 
Eustice said:
Thought it was okay. The video shots seemed to cut too much. You never got to see one angle for very long.

Of course, I was watching as a tutorial rather than entertainment.

The way the whole thing was filmed didn’t give much perspective as to distance. And I’m not sure why they kept speaking of distance in terms of feet.

I think a better description of the stages would have been good. Show the reading of the stage brief.

I understand they had to pare down a multi-day competition to two hours, though.
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You'da thunk they would have shown multiple hits instead of one over and over again?
 
Eustice said:
Thought it was okay. The video shots seemed to cut too much. You never got to see one angle for very long.

Of course, I was watching as a tutorial rather than entertainment.

The way the whole thing was filmed didn’t give much perspective as to distance. And I’m not sure why they kept speaking of distance in terms of feet.

I think a better description of the stages would have been good. Show the reading of the stage brief.

I understand they had to pare down a multi-day competition to two hours, though.
Click to expand...
It wasn’t made for people like us. It was made to ramp up recruits and future recruits. They don’t understand yards or meters. But 400 feet sounds a lot longer than 133 yards.

Like most military stuff on TV, it’s a recruitment tool.
 
TacticalDillhole said:
It wasn’t made for people like us. It was made to ramp up recruits and future recruits. They don’t understand yards or meters. But 400 feet sounds a lot longer than 133 yards.

Like most military stuff on TV, it’s a recruitment tool.
Click to expand...
Ya know...that is true. Yet Big green still directs/allows this bullshit to show on tv this way instead of telling it how it is. I wonder if showing it the way it should be would be better for recruiting?
 
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