- Thread starter TexPatriot
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This is a pretty sophisticated level of discourse, which I appreciate. I will lay out my answers in a somewhat dispersed fashion because they all contribute to the answer roughly equally, and thus none take especial precedent.
1. A well run government, staffed by patriots, and engaged upon for the civic good is the optimal machinery for providing the highest level of benefit to a people.
2. The people themselves are poor stewards of societal power.
3. Our government is becoming poor stewards of the public trust. I say that the way that I did, because compared to say for example any country currently in existence in Africa or South America our government is a fountain of trust and propriety.
4. And thus we come to the circuit breaker - armed citizens. The objective of armed citizenry is to act as a circuit breaker so the country doesn't burn down into tyranny.
5. That circuit breaker currently has tape over it - that tape is called "propaganda".
Why does everyone work to preserve the social order? Because there isn't enough misery flowing through the breaker yet to blow it. So it shouldn't blow - and the lights stay on. The taps still dispense water.
And the kids stay alive, and the women stay unraped, and food still shows up and all the other awful shit thats coming holds off for even another day. Which is worth it.
Besides - we are already at game over. There could be no revolution in the US that didn't weaken us enough that the second some peace accord was signed we put the pen down and lined up against the wall to be shot by the Chinese. This is a global problem, and without global nuclear war or a global plague we will finally get the opportunity to find out why pissing off the entire world was stupid.
The only thing that could save our country right now is peaceful Balkanization. Hand everyone nukes, break into 10 regions, let the commies go fuck themselves on the east and west coast, and call it a day.
1. A well run government, staffed by patriots, and engaged upon for the civic good is the optimal machinery for providing the highest level of benefit to a people.
2. The people themselves are poor stewards of societal power.
3. Our government is becoming poor stewards of the public trust. I say that the way that I did, because compared to say for example any country currently in existence in Africa or South America our government is a fountain of trust and propriety.
4. And thus we come to the circuit breaker - armed citizens. The objective of armed citizenry is to act as a circuit breaker so the country doesn't burn down into tyranny.
5. That circuit breaker currently has tape over it - that tape is called "propaganda".
Why does everyone work to preserve the social order? Because there isn't enough misery flowing through the breaker yet to blow it. So it shouldn't blow - and the lights stay on. The taps still dispense water.
And the kids stay alive, and the women stay unraped, and food still shows up and all the other awful shit thats coming holds off for even another day. Which is worth it.
Besides - we are already at game over. There could be no revolution in the US that didn't weaken us enough that the second some peace accord was signed we put the pen down and lined up against the wall to be shot by the Chinese. This is a global problem, and without global nuclear war or a global plague we will finally get the opportunity to find out why pissing off the entire world was stupid.
The only thing that could save our country right now is peaceful Balkanization. Hand everyone nukes, break into 10 regions, let the commies go fuck themselves on the east and west coast, and call it a day.
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You must have quoted me when before I deleted my post. I did so because there are too many soft people that can’t seem to read other’s opinions without throwing a fit. Speaking from one’s own mind is a banable offense even without malice intent. If I get banned it’s your fault
edit: hell I never quoted what I said in that other thread. What I deleted and you quoted was all fresh.
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I deleted your quote as I understand.You must have quoted me when before I deleted my post. I did so because there are too many soft people that can’t seem to read other’s opinions without throwing a fit. Speaking from one’s own mind is a banable offense even without malice intent. If I get banned it’s your fault
edit: hell I never quoted what I said in that other thread. What I deleted and you quoted was all fresh.
And I also understand your point. 3/4 of it is even spot on in my opinion. I hope we never get there, but the Captain of this ship certainly seems to have lit the smoking lamp and broke out the gasoline.
if i was a cop, i wouldn't do anything. that's why i am not a cop though.
I love how security is barely doing anything. Slow walk into the scene, no effort to stop the mayhem, lol. LE and security should just hang on the sides, take bets on the winner and collect the money then go on break.
Is it ironic that all that took place in front of a shop called "Urban Decay"??????
easier when you let them tire themselves out a bit.
That way they'll sleep good tonight.
I would throw a knife on the ground near them and let them sort it out. Less democrats at the polls.
Urban Decay is the correct definition.
What civilized person in their right mind would fly with those animals loose onboard.
They'd probably try and rob the pilot like he was an Uber driver and take the plane joyriding.
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PAWTUCKET, RI—Hasbro announced today an exciting new playset for kids and little innocent babies: "My First Knife Fight," to be released under its Playskool brand aimed at toddlers.
The playset features real shivs kids can use to stab each other in an innocent street fight. Including a variety of knives, from makeshift shivs made out of toothbrushes and razor blades to switchblades and kitchen knives, the playset is designed to entertain kids of all ages.
Playskool Releases 'My First Knife Fight' Playset
PAWTUCKET, RI—Hasbro announced today an exciting new playset for kids and little innocent babies: "My First Knife Fight," to be released under its Playskool brand aimed at toddlers.
babylonbee.com 
But a 2 year old autistic child cannot board without a mask...
I was talking to some buddies about this shooting and ammo choice. I suggested a mag of AP would be best. .50AE AP.
I can just see this in court now:
“Officer White -”
“That’s not my name”
“Where did you chose to shoot at on the deceased?”
“I knew nothing less than an M2 or a Carl Gustav would harm the beast, but I aimed for the blow hole when it reared up and just got lucky.”
“Why did you fire on the deceased?”
“Captain Ahab had just arrived and he said distinctly ‘THAT WHALE HAS A KNIFE!’”
“And this caused you to shoot the deceased?”
“Yes ma’am. I knew that when she was done with that other poor little gal we were going down to Davey Jones’ locker if I didn’t do something.”
“Even though the deceased was Black?”
“Whales are usually dark skinned, maam. I have seen an Albino whale before but they are rare.”.
I can just see this in court now:
“Officer White -”
“That’s not my name”
“Where did you chose to shoot at on the deceased?”
“I knew nothing less than an M2 or a Carl Gustav would harm the beast, but I aimed for the blow hole when it reared up and just got lucky.”
“Why did you fire on the deceased?”
“Captain Ahab had just arrived and he said distinctly ‘THAT WHALE HAS A KNIFE!’”
“And this caused you to shoot the deceased?”
“Yes ma’am. I knew that when she was done with that other poor little gal we were going down to Davey Jones’ locker if I didn’t do something.”
“Even though the deceased was Black?”
“Whales are usually dark skinned, maam. I have seen an Albino whale before but they are rare.”.
Curious as to when at what point during the lunge and arm swinging with knife in hand was she as her mom puts it;
“My baby was an innocent, talented, lovely teenager,” said Paula Bryant. “She had her whole life ahead of her.”
www.10tv.com
“My baby was an innocent, talented, lovely teenager,” said Paula Bryant. “She had her whole life ahead of her.”
'All systems failed her': Attorney for family of Ma'Khia Bryant calls for federal investigation into her death
The attorney representing the family of Ma'Khia Bryant spoke to reporters for the first time on Wednesday.
www.10tv.com 
They misspelled Mother.Curious as to when at what point during the lunge and arm swinging with knife in hand was she as her mom puts it;
“My baby was an innocent, talented, lovely teenager,” said Paula Bryant. “She had her whole life ahead of her.”
'All systems failed her': Attorney for family of Ma'Khia Bryant calls for federal investigation into her death
The attorney representing the family of Ma'Khia Bryant spoke to reporters for the first time on Wednesday.
R
Wasn’t her princess in foster care?Curious as to when at what point during the lunge and arm swinging with knife in hand was she as her mom puts it;
“My baby was an innocent, talented, lovely teenager,” said Paula Bryant. “She had her whole life ahead of her.”
'All systems failed her': Attorney for family of Ma'Khia Bryant calls for federal investigation into her death
The attorney representing the family of Ma'Khia Bryant spoke to reporters for the first time on Wednesday.
If so...well, the state doesn’t take your kids because they are bored and looking for something to do.
PAWTUCKET, RI—Hasbro announced today an exciting new playset for kids and little innocent babies: "My First Knife Fight," to be released under its Playskool brand aimed at toddlers.
The playset features real shivs kids can use to stab each other in an innocent street fight. Including a variety of knives, from makeshift shivs made out of toothbrushes and razor blades to switchblades and kitchen knives, the playset is designed to entertain kids of all ages.
Playskool Releases 'My First Knife Fight' Playset
PAWTUCKET, RI—Hasbro announced today an exciting new playset for kids and little innocent babies: "My First Knife Fight," to be released under its Playskool brand aimed at toddlers.
Picture of a white child? That's cultural appropriation!
If it weren't at an airport, i wish someone would have just rolled a knife into the middle of them on the floor. May the odds be ever in your favor.
god damn it, i didnt read your comment before making mine. You beat me to it
Must have been Spirit Airlines passengers. That airline attracts the best types of people.
Probably the only solution to address situations such as this is for officers to be retrained to "shoot to disable" rather than "shoot to kill".
You have inexperienced/overwhelmed officers (albeit well-intentioned) being asked to "handle" an intense situation and when the options are
a) difuse and/or disable
b) elimimate/let bullets fix s***t
All too often B seems to be the default...
Ever been in a shooting? With actual moving, attacking people?Probably the only solution to address situations such as this is for officers to be retrained to "shoot to disable" rather than "shoot to kill".
You have inexperienced/overwhelmed officers (albeit well-intentioned) being asked to "handle" an intense situation and when the options are
a) difuse and/or disable
b) elimimate/let bullets fix s***t
All too often B seems to be the default...
You don’t get out a ruler and dial calipers and start measuring shit for a disabling shot. You don’t get out Grey’s anatomy and begin writing your Masters Thesis on where you are going to put bullets so that they don’t put the other persons life at risk.
No powerpoints. No 3d modeling. No bullshit.
You have 1.5 seconds before the bad guy wins.
And if your handgun, which is a pretty shitty problem solver all things considered, doesn’t stop the bad guy then you lose.
And herein is the real rub. I used the words “bad guy”. Or gal. If you are stabbing, shooting, rapin, robbing, and murdering the innocents then I say “fuck you, please die”.
Your life doesn’t have value to me at all, and you should only be an example to others as they play a video of you being killed by society to all the students at the local middle school and your ashes buried in the schools “Garden of Shame”.
What if that was your daughter about to get the knife?? You can fuck right off....Probably the only solution to address situations such as this is for officers to be retrained to "shoot to disable" rather than "shoot to kill".
You have inexperienced/overwhelmed officers (albeit well-intentioned) being asked to "handle" an intense situation and when the options are
a) difuse and/or disable
b) elimimate/let bullets fix s***t
All too often B seems to be the default...
some officers can't hit a man sized object from 10' under pressure, so it would be a non starter to expect them to assess the risk, find a target that will stop the attack without killing the attacker, and hit that spot in the time required.Probably the only solution to address situations such as this is for officers to be retrained to "shoot to disable" rather than "shoot to kill".
You have inexperienced/overwhelmed officers (albeit well-intentioned) being asked to "handle" an intense situation and when the options are
a) difuse and/or disable
b) elimimate/let bullets fix s***t
All too often B seems to be the default...
shit happens fast in the real world, pal.
You really are a barney.Probably the only solution to address situations such as this is for officers to be retrained to "shoot to disable" rather than "shoot to kill".
You have inexperienced/overwhelmed officers (albeit well-intentioned) being asked to "handle" an intense situation and when the options are
a) difuse and/or disable
b) elimimate/let bullets fix s***t
All too often B seems to be the default...
If they needs to be shot. then deadly force is being deployed and needs to be countered with potentially deadly force to stop the attack.....there is no such thing as "shoot to disable" . If they don't need to be de animated instantly then they don't need to be shot .
Even as a civilian I'm not deploying deadly force against a human that doesn't need to be dropped as fast as possible to stop the deployment of deadly force against myself or others I am to protect. If you see my gun deployed, and I am telling you to stop what the fuck you are doing, your potential to be killed instantly is in the Red Zone.
VooDoo
Even as a civilian I'm not deploying deadly force against a human that doesn't need to be dropped as fast as possible to stop the deployment of deadly force against myself or others I am to protect. If you see my gun deployed, and I am telling you to stop what the fuck you are doing, your potential to be killed instantly is in the Red Zone.
VooDoo
Clearly a lot of strong opinions/ strong emotions on both sides of this topic.
This forum understandably skews one direction (I get it), but the last year should have revealed that a large portion of the US may feel somewhat differently than I or (what seems to be) the consensus of Hide members. That base is entitled to an opinion. None of us have to agree. Any of us can disagree. I feel that is a founding principle of the US fathers. That's what makes US > Russia > China > A lot of MidE.
As such, I was just thinking out loud of a possible solution...and aimed to shift this thread toward constructive dialogue. I didn't see as much regarding possible solutions that would (as best as possible) try to appease all sides of this topic. I don't claim that I have the answer. I didn't even mean to imply that I agree with any solution I proposed. I don't know that anyone really has the 100% answer. Wish I did...
But, the thread seemed to descend (rather quickly) into mud-slinging and one-sided mockery. Maybe that is what the Hide is for and maybe that's all Hide members want -- a forum for like minded conversation where the only "right" opinion is "my opinion". If so, lesson learned -- I will just stick to leveraging the PX when I need something, withdraw my $20 subscription when I don't, and avoid participating in any other aspect. (I don't intend to do that).
I guess the takeaway here is that it is all about perspective and that changes mightily from Officer vs. Aggressor vs. Victim. I don't know what the solution would be that would appease all side of this discussion.
I'll get off my soap box now.
This forum understandably skews one direction (I get it), but the last year should have revealed that a large portion of the US may feel somewhat differently than I or (what seems to be) the consensus of Hide members. That base is entitled to an opinion. None of us have to agree. Any of us can disagree. I feel that is a founding principle of the US fathers. That's what makes US > Russia > China > A lot of MidE.
As such, I was just thinking out loud of a possible solution...and aimed to shift this thread toward constructive dialogue. I didn't see as much regarding possible solutions that would (as best as possible) try to appease all sides of this topic. I don't claim that I have the answer. I didn't even mean to imply that I agree with any solution I proposed. I don't know that anyone really has the 100% answer. Wish I did...
But, the thread seemed to descend (rather quickly) into mud-slinging and one-sided mockery. Maybe that is what the Hide is for and maybe that's all Hide members want -- a forum for like minded conversation where the only "right" opinion is "my opinion". If so, lesson learned -- I will just stick to leveraging the PX when I need something, withdraw my $20 subscription when I don't, and avoid participating in any other aspect. (I don't intend to do that).
I guess the takeaway here is that it is all about perspective and that changes mightily from Officer vs. Aggressor vs. Victim. I don't know what the solution would be that would appease all side of this discussion.
- As Victim: I am a father and I personally would do whatever I could to protect my daughter. I hope law enforcement sees my daughter as a life worth saving enough to step in, as well.
- As Officer: I commend him for doing "something" and acting swiftly and decidedly. This situation looked intense and challenging. I don't know what I would/could have done. I have never taken the life of another human being and hope I never have to -- hence why I am not in law enforcement. In my opinion, his intentions seemed pure and founded. Though I acknowledge ethical and legal do not always align.
- As Aggressor: In the same breadth, I am a father, and even if my daughter one the officer feels must be de-animated/eliminated/killed instantly, I know with certainty I would never agree with that decision or want that to be the case. Call it the unconditional love between parent and child. Don't have to agree, just respect.
I'll get off my soap box now.
Diarrhea of the mouth.
That cop has his life on the line every stop he makes or every call he's on. That particular call gave him no time to even think.
He did the right thing and, wow, he saved someone's life like a super human.
That guy needs to be celebrated
That cop has his life on the line every stop he makes or every call he's on. That particular call gave him no time to even think.
He did the right thing and, wow, he saved someone's life like a super human.
That guy needs to be celebrated
To put it in perspective, any man that works outside the house whether the trash man, contruction, oilfield, truck driver, or any other heavy industry puts his life on the line at work. Everyone of these fields I just described have fatality rates multiple times greater than a police officer. There is just too much pandering about the dangers of being an officer when statistically this isn’t the case.
This statement has nothing to do with this story of course.
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+1, all you have to do is watch the video.
That took place about 3 miles from my daughter's precinct. (She is CPD)
Is that portion somewhere in the neighborhood of 13%
If you are a father, don't raise your daughter to think trying to stab another person to death over pop tarts or whatever stupidity they were fighting over is a good idea. Perhaps also teach them if the police show up, don't keep trying to murder someone.
Then the chances of your daughter having their life cut short are drastically reduced.
Again, don't do murders, less chance of getting killed.
Unless you think that your daughter has the right to murder anyone she wants for any stupid reason and everybody else should just let her do it and then let her get away with it?
I can't find it in my heart to, even smally, to blemish his actions. Again, he should be celebrated.
The level of danger that each of our jobs has doesn't have anything to do w that cops quick, appropriate action that he took.
I understand the point you make, but man, nuts, let's not rain on that super studs day.
St Peter will pat that man on his back when it's his time to pass through the pearly gates.
A well written reply. Lots of good points.
If I walked in on my son choking a 6 year old kid to death and I had to shoot him to stop it, I would do so.
I’m an old man now, and he is a Marine in the prime of his life with extensive unarmed combat training. I don’t think I could take him anymore without using a tool of some sort.
Then, after I got random kid who had somehow appeared in this situation medical care, I would begin planning how I would shit in my sons coffin at the funeral for trying to murder a child and having put our family in this situation.
So yeah, there is an old saying that “He’s the kind of man who shoots his own dog.”. If one of my children had become an unperson through their actions, I sure as fuck wouldn’t criticize a police officer for doing exactly what I would have.
Post of the day
The law in almost every jurisdiction allows lethal force to protect yourself or a third party.
If welfare whores put as much effort into raising their brood to be somebody as they do selling their assholes to buy crack rocks, we wouldn't be having these problems
Yes, I 100% agree with this line of thinking.
I am certainly doing what I can
to ensure that the very same values my parents instilled in me, and the upbringing I was fortunate to have, will filter down to my daughter so that she never finds herself in such a similar situation. I also put the blame squarely on the lack of proper discipline and corporal punishment of children in this corrupted modern society.
It's also a side effect of all this B.S. about "Zero Tolerance" which is basically zero intelligence.
You bring up kids to think there are no real consequences for their actions until one day they run smack into lethal consequences or life changing consequences for their bad actions.
It used to be, the training started young, you pushed some kid or smacked them, the adults gave you a good hard smack, you learned quickly that doing bad things to others meant you would be receiving pain to yourself. later you did bad stuff you got spanked for it. You ran your mouth a bit much at school or bullied folks, you either got tossed into the boxing ring at PE with gloves to settle it, or you got spanked.
Now "children" (who are the same age as what people used to be when they were starting their own families and running their own farms) grow up thinking that because they are "minors" they can rob, carjack, murder, riot and commit all kinds of crimes and get away with it because nobody has ever held them accountable or punished them correctly. Then one day they try it with the police or someone who refuses to be a victim and well.... their life was turned around for good.
It's also a side effect of all this B.S. about "Zero Tolerance" which is basically zero intelligence.
You bring up kids to think there are no real consequences for their actions until one day they run smack into lethal consequences or life changing consequences for their bad actions.
It used to be, the training started young, you pushed some kid or smacked them, the adults gave you a good hard smack, you learned quickly that doing bad things to others meant you would be receiving pain to yourself. later you did bad stuff you got spanked for it. You ran your mouth a bit much at school or bullied folks, you either got tossed into the boxing ring at PE with gloves to settle it, or you got spanked.
Now "children" (who are the same age as what people used to be when they were starting their own families and running their own farms) grow up thinking that because they are "minors" they can rob, carjack, murder, riot and commit all kinds of crimes and get away with it because nobody has ever held them accountable or punished them correctly. Then one day they try it with the police or someone who refuses to be a victim and well.... their life was turned around for good.
There's also that saying "everyone has a plan until the bullets start flying..." which I think is meant to highlight that a lot of what we say we would/could do... is really what we believe we'd do or hope we have the strength to do.
I'd like to believe that if my child was harming another human I would step in and do "the right thing". But we get down the rabbit whole once more about who gets to define "right thing".
(in this case) If "right thing" meant taking another's life...I'd like to believe I would/could....but having never been in that situation (
I never am)...hard to say.A lot easier to say so from a mobile phone or behind a computer. I'll raise my hand and acknowledge (once actually in that situation) I don't really know 100% how I'd react (unconditional
for my child is a tough thing).Kudos to those of us strong enough to know
Modern school shootings are a direct descendant of this ideology.
"Zero Tolerance" is a statist behavior that forces reliance on the school to take care of things.
In my day, if a school bully was an asshole you got into a fight. The teachers would step in before anyone went to the hospital. If someone was a school bully all the damn time 10 kids would get together and beat his ass if 1 couldn't.
Now its "Timmy, you can't punch Joey even though he spit on you. Don't worry. I'll take care of it by doing nothing whatsoever."
Do that 1000 times and its 0 surprise that Timmy felt like going to school and opening fire was his only recourse after being punished over and over again for taking care of things himself, and told the state would help him when it was never going to.
The hardest thing for me was going to school in an alternating fashion in Colorado and Texas. Colorado was doing the Marxist schooling and Texas was on the old model. And I got to see, year after year, both of them at the same time as a kid.
In Colorado school I watched 5 kids beat the piss out of a teacher in class. The classes I went to were 4 kids huddled around the teacher learning stuff and the rest of the class doing a pretty good re-enactment of the monkey cage at a zoo.
In Texas, a recent transfer student from Chicago tried punching our math teacher in the nuts and he literally knocked the kids teeth out in the middle of class. The teacher was there the next day with bandaids on his hand, and the kid from Chigago wasn't. I spent the rest of math class looking at 3 teeth on the ground and a puddle of blood.
It was educational.
Exactly. But this is not a conversation that we are having, instead of personal responsibility and being a parent we want to blame police for street thugs reaping what they sow. That dead idiot played a stupid game and won the stupid grand prize. These street thugs are the product of broken homes mostly due to leftist policies designed to keep them down. The families come crawling out from the nearest rock hoping to win the ghetto lottery when their little dindunuffins win the stupid prize.
That cop is a hero period. He saved a life from an out of control psycho in the act of committing murder. Anything short of treating this officer as a hero is just plain wrong. The media should be launching an investigation into the family of the dead idiot and exposing the cycle that created the idiot while praising police for saving a life.
There's also that saying "everyone has a plan until the bullets start flying..." which I think is meant to highlight that a lot of what we say we would/could do... is really what we believe we'd do or hope we have the strength to do.
I'd like to believe that if my child was harming another human I would step in and do "the right thing". But we get down the rabbit whole once more about who gets to define "right thing".
(in this case) If "right thing" meant taking another's life...I'd like to believe I would/could....but having never been in that situation (
A lot easier to say so from a mobile phone or behind a computer. I'll raise my hand and acknowledge (once actually in that situation) I don't really know 100% how I'd react (unconditional
Kudos to those of us strong enough to know
I don't think you know until you do, frankly. My first learning experience was folks shooting at me - I fell into the angry category of responses.
But the second learning experience was seeing someones young child dead, violently, and it was someones fault. Thats what went through my head. "This is someones fault. Not responsibility - fault. They did this, on purpose."
Any kind and caring liberal tendencies towards criminals that floated around in my brain had died right there. In a fire. Burnt to a crisp. It also reshaped my views on drugs, and it wasn't a kind reshaping.
Its one of the reasons I quit working Corrections. I knew if I had to stare at murderers and rapists who were getting let out in a few weeks any longer I was going to end up in that empty unit up on B. You could tell that they were planning to slide right back into "their spot". Get a job? Quit drugs? Don't be a douchebag? Fuck no - now they knew 10 times more contacts on the outside who were their kind of folks.
My advice - start seeing the person that is the true victim again and stop treating the criminal like they are just poor misunderstood regular folk who made a bad decision just ONE time. Some of them are. 3 of them. More likely 2 of them, but I'm willing to posit a 50% overage.
This is one of the reasons I carry solids in my sidearm.
Everyone bitches at me about "over penetration".......but if I'm ever attacked by one of those feral land whales, I like knowing I'm carrying a round capable of penetrating that beasts thick hide and able to achieve the required 36" of penetration required to reach vitals
I agree 100%.
Some former boss that Ive known since I was a teen and was a FB 'friend' until last week posted a notice "If you don't back the blue 100%, unconditionally, unfriend me!"
I said to myself 'Not a problem.' *click
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