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Bubble level in front of turret?

ceruleanblue

ceruleanblue

Alterius non sit qui suus esse potest
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Minuteman
Mar 23, 2019
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I have all my scopes with the bubble behind the turret on the left-hand side. Now I've upgraded to a Vortex bubble that is unfortunately more "massive" in its frame. This prevents me from seeing and adjusting the parallax knob on the left side of the turret easily. I'm thinking of moving the bubble in front of the turret. What do you all think? Any advice or cons to doing so?

As always, thanks amigos,

Migs
 
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I even found my not-especially-massive MKM level to be in the way behind the turrets so put it in front. No downsides as long as it's designed for that (sticks out up at 10:30 or so) and should be easy to change. Just clamp up the gun so the current level says it's level, note HOW level (where the bubble is inside the ticks: there is some tolerance and the clamping likely is imperfect), unbolt the level, move it, and tighten, checking regularly that the new bubble position matches the old.

I'd also double check with a second bubble on the turret top, or so on, but should be easy. 2 minutes if you take your time.
 
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Changed said:
How about ditch the thing all together.
Click to expand...
I've seen this a few times around here from time to time: what do you mean?

Out past ~400 yards, too much cant in the rifle can put one off target. Even if it's steel hanging off a strap, or a target on a post, lining up the vertical reticle line as a coarse adjustment, that just gets coarser and coarser as distance increases. Using the horizon isn't any better (usually worse).

I don't get it? How do you get by without a level on small targets at distance, like a 1moa (~5-6") target at say 500 yards?

I feel like not using a level would mean missing a lot of first-round impacts that otherwise could've been made, or would introduce noise into correcting wind calls.

For the OP: I prefer the level out in front of the turret and further away from my eye, I shoot both eyes open and I think having it further away makes it easier to monitor the level just by switching my focus. I actually hate when the level is closer to the back of the scope.
 
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20210405_165214.jpg
 
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forgot to add.

If you do use a level don’t set it up with the bubble perfectly in the middle.

Have it touch one of the lines, either left or right

It’s much easier and faster for your eyes to match up “contact” points than trying to make it dead center.
 
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I moved it. The process requires care, but that's why we have rifles right? Pics are before, during and after.
 

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Texasflyer said:
I run a strait bubble off of the scope rail. I only use a bubble on my precision rifle, i dont have time for it when hunting.
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I shoot steel 200 to 500 meters. The farther out the more a canted rifle misses.
 
I also don't get the anti-bubble crowd now. I do only have it on the over-300 m precision rifle (not say the .300 BLK even though it's rather set as a precision gun otherwise). Though I knew that it was easy to confuse what level is, I only became a believer and added one after a day of being coached. I was missing (at like 900 yds) and started being regularly told I was ever so slightly tilted. It was especially hilly country, but it happens. Anyway, once level: essentially 100% hits. As in the video above: real easy to miss sideways and MAN is that confusing when trying to figure out if a random wind came up, etc when it's just geometry.

I also like in front of turrets as it's not something you constantly stare at, but more a double check that all is good during setup or just before firing. My main precision range is very, very flat, so I only spot it to keep in practice, but it's not /needed/ there. Other places the ground can be confusing, so worth having.
 
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ceekay1 said:
Out past ~400 yards, too much cant in the rifle can put one off target. Even if it's steel hanging off a strap, or a target on a post, lining up the vertical reticle line as a coarse adjustment, that just gets coarser and coarser as distance increases. Using the horizon isn't any better (usually worse).

I don't get it? How do you get by without a level on small targets at distance, like a 1moa (~5-6") target at say 500 yards?

I feel like not using a level would mean missing a lot of first-round impacts that otherwise could've been made, or would introduce noise into correcting wind calls.

For the OP: I prefer the level out in front of the turret and further away from my eye, I shoot both eyes open and I think having it further away makes it easier to monitor the level just by switching my focus. I actually hate when the level is closer to the back of the scope.
Click to expand...
People have successfully made impacts at distance long before bubble levels were a thing.

For most eyes/equilibrium combined with a horizon work well. One area where this becomes a problem is when your head is canted on the rifle. Have you ever noticed that your reticle looks crooked when laying on the gun? Getting your head straight up and down will go a long way towards helping you "self" level.

Also, scope mounted levels are notorious for becoming out of plumb when you tighten them. Just like your reticle can deviate from plumb when tightening your rings.

 
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Changed said:
People have successfully made impacts at distance long before bubble levels were a thing.

For most people who live in none- mountainous areas, the horizon is your best level.

If you cant your rifle you could miss a shot. You do need a level to avoid cant.

Scope mounted levels are notorious for becoming out of plumb when you tighten the screw.

Stop fixating on the accessories. Fixate on the fundamentals.

I have levels built into chassis. They are not referenced in my shot process.
Click to expand...
I always shot without a level, but then i bought one and tried it. I realised that it isnt so important to have it perfect plumb, but its important to repeat where you put the bubble each time, that is a tool to increase repeatability. As much as i would love to lie to myself and say i dont need that, it makes me a better shooter when used properly.
 
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Changed said:
People have successfully made impacts at distance long before bubble levels were a thing.

For most people who live in none- mountainous areas, the horizon is your best level.

If you cant your rifle you could miss a shot. You do need a level to avoid cant.

Scope mounted levels are notorious for becoming out of plumb when you tighten the screw.

Stop fixating on the accessories. Fixate on the fundamentals.

I have levels built into chassis. They are not referenced in my shot process.
Click to expand...

I feel like I just got a little dumber reading that.
 
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viking78 said:
MKmachining picatinny buble is also great, no need to be afraid to make the change on place of it.
View attachment 7602163



Greatly told the cant and how it efect.

Page not found • RifleScopeLevel

www.riflescopelevel.com www.riflescopelevel.com

Check this video, different calibers on 1000 yard, how much does 1 degree makes on impact.

Click to expand...

The mkmachining level I bought wasn’t even visibly straight when It tightened up big hump over the rail I through that pile in the trash the same say I did his junky ass throw lever. Y’all will hype up any product and if you’re shooting a 1.5 moa target and can’t eyeball enough cant out of your reticle an extra bubble level isn’t going to save you. I highly doubt anybody running one can tell the difference in 3° on their level.
 
I put the full-size Vortex bubble in front of the turret - indeed, in front of the front rings, about 1/4" behind the objective bell flare. You'll be able to see it fine while you're fully in the gun because it sticks out so far. I put mine way out there because I've had cataract surgery; ideally the bubble would be out near the muzzle and I'd be able to focus on it more clearly...

It's a waste of time to argue bubble pros/cons. If you like it, run it.
 
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Smokin7s said:
The mkmachining level I bought wasn’t even visibly straight when It tightened up big hump over the rail I through that pile in the trash the same say I did his junky ass throw lever. Y’all will hype up any product and if you’re shooting a 1.5 moa target and can’t eyeball enough cant out of your reticle an extra bubble level isn’t going to save you. I highly doubt anybody running one can tell the difference in 3° on their level.
Click to expand...
Nylon or billet version?
 
Not to get off track here (and regardless if one believes in using a level or not)... But, it just occurred to me:

Does anyone know why the hell levels aren't just built into our scopes?

I mean we all go through the pain in the ass to level our scopes in our rings/mounts. Then, we (well, most of us) go through the even bigger pain in the ass of mounting a level and getting it leveled with the scope (and the more sensitive the level, the more of a bitch it is).

I never really thought about how much easier it would be to just have to level 1 thing instead of 2, and then already have the level attached to the thing you're trying to make sure is level (reticle).
 
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ceekay1 said:
Does anyone know why the hell levels aren't just built into our scopes?
Click to expand...
You mean like Sig Tango 6 and Revic among a few others?

I would imagine the reason would be the extra expense to put this in and the fact that not everyone uses levels. I do not have canted butt's on all my rifles, those that don't - when I shoot using my natural hold the rifle/scope are naturally canted, instead of fighting my natural hold by making the scope/reticle perpendicular to the picatinny rail, I cant my scope to match my natural hold. The bubble thus becomes a training aid more than a crutch to constantly correct how I should be shooting to begin with.
 
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2aBaCa said:
You mean people actually put them blocking the turrets?
Click to expand...
Yup. A lot believe that you can't see the bubble on the other side of the parallax knob or they buy shit levels that don't allow them to be seen.

Pointed this out in a few other forums where guys told me I was lying. One guy straight up got in a pissing match with me. I posted photos of how visible the bubble was and he told me I was doing trick photography to make it look better than it was. He then told me I would have to break my cheek weld to see it.
 
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viking78 said:
Ah, i have the billet alloy, that is death straight, i have Audere mount that has also a small buble, it is same lelel on MKmachining level as is the mount buble.
For sure it is more expensive, but like they say.
Buy once cry once.
Click to expand...
If you release any product that is junk I don’t want the better version of that that isn’t. People that give a shit about the reputation wouldn’t ever release something so shitty to begin with whether it was cheap or not.
 
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Friends

Trying to use the landscape or the table or the ground as a reference to "being level" is very misleading. I see it every time I shoot 300-500 meters, as my table looks level, but the bubble shows it's not. Granted your target might not be as small as mine (12x15 cm) so it might not make that big of a difference.
I see the day when most scopes will have the bubble built into the reticle.

Migs
 
That's how I have all my rigs setup because I am far-sighter. If I put the bubble behindd the turrets, not only will the bubble get in the way, it's all a blur to me.
 
When I load my bipod, my shoulder pocket moves my rifle stock and reticle to the left about 15 degrees. Can I level my scope AFTER I settle in and load my bipod, so my rifle is already canted a bit left to eliminate the reticle cant without affecting POI?
 
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