Consecutive serial number pair of USMC 1903-A1's

[lonegunman762x51]

I visited a collection of old military rifles and the guy had a pair of 1903-A1 rifles, modified for scopes, blued bolts and Hatcher holes in the middle of the range for 1937 NM Springfield rifles ordered by the Corps. They are not in the best of shape and one has a DL number carved into the stock. A couple of hours of research shows they are both USMC NM rifles with blued WWII bolts, no scopes or bases but restorable.

Does anyone have a consecutive serial number pair of these? They were relegated to deer hunting for most of the late 1950's and 60's and have been sitting in a basement ever since. I have an offer in on them at the moment. I'm going to try pretty hard to get them but there is a very good chance they could disappear back into the basement if they decide not to sell.

 

[MarshallDodge]

(Edit, nvmd, you said blued bolts twice)

I'm not really good on pricing them but would enjoy seeing pictures if you could post some. In excellent condition, I have seen them go for 3-5K. The rifles that you are looking at would be closer to 1-2K.

 

[USMCSGT0331]

Do they have chrome bolts?

I'm not really good on pricing them but would enjoy seeing pictures if you could post some. In excellent condition, I have seen them go for 3-5K. The rifles that you are looking at would be closer to 1-2K.

If they are actual USMC 1903A1 sniper rifles (even without the scopes), they're easily $10,000+ (large emphasis on the "+" portion of that price estimate) for each rifle. It's a world of difference between regular or NM 1903 rifles versus legit USMC 1903 sniper rifles.

The OP specifically mentions that they don't have scope or scope bases, and that the rifles are "restorable." With that information, I'm assuming that he's inferring to these specific 1903A1's being sniper rifles, not just regular or NM rifles. I could be wrong, but that's why I gave the above price estimate on a USMC 1903A1 sniper rifle.

@cplnorton

 

[cplnorton]

When a legit 1903A1 Unertl Sniper pops up the guys with deep pockets come out. lol So they usually sell pretty for a decent chunk. 99% of them never hit the public, they are usually traded among the top collectors.

Is there any chance you took any pics of these? I just always advise to be careful. Almost everytime I hear of a legit rifle for sale, it usually ends up being a clone.

Before anyone spends a lot of money on one of these rifles I always advise to send me some pics and let me take a look at it.

I've had guys spend 20-40k on a rifle and then find out it's not real.

 

[cplnorton]

Btw it was pretty common in the 50's/60's guys would engrave their DL# or SS# on a firearm. A lot of the gun magazines of the day actually recommended it just in case they were stolen.

I do know of one legit USMC 1903A1 Unertl that has a DL# engraved on it on the rear sight base.

 

[lonegunman762x51]

This is carved into the stock of one of them. Any ideas? The "delta" symbol in the sequence makes it tough to call this a DL or SSAN number.

 

[cplnorton]

I honestly have no clue what that marking is. I don't think there is any chance it's Marine.

I almost honestly wonder if it's something foreign? I've seen some really weird markings such as this that had a foreign origin.

 

[USMCSGT0331]

That's clearly the product key to unlock and set-up Microsoft Office 365 on your computer. But what it's doing on the side of an old rifle? I have absolutely no idea. Time travelers or something, probably

 

[Skunk]

 

[lonegunman762x51]

I honestly have no clue what that marking is. I don't think there is any chance it's Marine.

I almost honestly wonder if it's something foreign? I've seen some really weird markings such as this that had a foreign origin.

Oddly enough, it does look like one of those keys used to unlock some Microsoft product.

 

[Jamie Hurley]

I visited a collection of old military rifles and the guy had a pair of 1903-A1 rifles, modified for scopes, blued bolts and Hatcher holes in the middle of the range for 1937 NM Springfield rifles ordered by the Corps.

I know I'm late to this conversation but...

Springfield Armory began drilling Hatcher holes on new production rifles beginning in 1937. ALL 1937 National Match rifles (1496xxx-1498xxx) will have Hatcher Holes. This is not specifically a Marine trait.

Furthermore, while the USMC did receive 150 National Match rifles in 1937, this is only 5% of the entire 3000 rifle National Match block of rifles produced in 1937.

The chance these rifles are USMC is highly unlikely though I'd love to be wrong.

Regardless of being Marine rifles or not, they could be worth a few thousand dollars a piece depending on just how rough they are.

As for the question about consecutively numbered USMC National Match Rifles...I'm aware of several pairs that are close to consecutive, but only one theoretical consecutive pair. 1526755 and 1526756. The first rifle was merely reported in the 1990s, though it's never surfaced to my knowledge, and may very well not actually be Marine. The second is currently up for auction with Rock Island, though to my knowledge it's never been torn apart to verify if it's real, and it too could just be a fake.

 

[lonegunman762x51]

You are wrong. The owner is not willing to share to much, especially more pics but I spent some time with them and a very knowledgeable person who was 100% happy. Not sure where to go from here, but we are staying in touch.

 

[cplnorton]

Just a FYI but Jamie Hurley is one of the most knowledgeable people in the country on the 1903 USMC Sniper. So, everything he said is spot on and you would be very wise to listen to his caution. The odds are extremely stacked against any 1937 NM being a Marine rifle. Without serial ranges, barrel dates, and pics there is just not anyway for anyone to tell anymore. But that marking in that one pic definitely is not Marine, which automatically would be a red flag to me because you wonder what else has been done to the rifle. But as Jamie said, all 1937 NM's had the additional gas escape hole drilled from SA before they shipped. So that is not a Marine trait on those rifles. Also a lot of NM's are drilled and tapped for a Unertl type target scope. So don't automatically assume a drilled and tapped NM is Marine either, because most likely it wouldn't be.

To answer more of your question a friend has a real 1937 NM that was a Unertl sniper. But he also found the consecutive serial to his Unertl Sniper that was actually owned by William Brophy a famous author. That rifle shows no traits of a Marine rifle and we seriously doubt it was. It looks like a 1937 NM that was likely just shipped to another organziation. So just because one NM was Marine, it doesn't mean the consecutive one was sent to the Marines as well. In fact the 2nd one might have had a DCM sales record. I can't remember.

But anyways, to be 100% honest I think Jamie is spot on in his statement. The chances these two are Marine is extremely low. Even if they are 1937 NM rifles the odds are only about 5%. So you need to be very careful because you can loose a lot of money fast on this deal.

I authenticate the 1903A1 Snipers for people and it's likely any research you are finding online is the research I made public about 10 years ago. I get probably 2 to 3 rifles sent to me a week that some "very knowledgeable person" out there said was a legit Unertl Sniper. Some were authenticated even by big name authors. Out of hundreds of rifles sent to me over the past decade, only a handful were legit.

So please understand Jamie is really trying to help you. I also have very serious doubts these two rifles are Marine by the description and the pic. But I would reserve judgement until I saw more. But you would be really wise to not disregard what Jamie is saying and understand it is coming from someone who is one of the most knowledgeable people in the country on this topic.

 

[lonegunman762x51]

I'm sure Jamie has got tons of great information. I am also sure if I shared too much information someone will gladly screw the deal for a shot to get them. I'm not short of either money or time so when the time comes to buy them, I want to be the guy who owns them. At the very least I want to make sure they don't get sporterized or handed off to some retard nephew for deer season. Thus far no scopes, the scope for one, "might be in a box somewhere".

If more interesting stuff turns up and I can get a picture, I'll post it here.

 

[Jamie Hurley]

Thank you Steve, that's high praise.

To the OP, it's never a bad idea to keep your potential deals tucked away. And like I said, I hope you get them, and I hope they are real. That would be quite a discovery.

Just know that the chances are extremely thin. Even if they aren't USMC snipers, a consecutive pair of National Match 1903s is worth going after. If you can get a good deal, go for them. Just don't get carried away and pay sniper money.

Recently, Collectors Firearms had a 1937 National Match Rifle sitting around unsold for years. They slapped a Unertl on it and sold it for $15,000. Ouch. Sadly it happens all the time. It has a 1498xxx serial number, star gauged 3-37 barrel, blued bolt, and of course a Hatcher hole. That rifle will probably get passed around for generations passing all the "simple tests" but those of us who watch these things like hawks, know it's fake.

 

[lonegunman762x51]

If these things ever get to daylight, I'll be in touch.