Rifle Scopes Do the new ZCO 4-20 or Kahles 3-18 challenge the S&B 3-20 Ultrashort?

[grizzlestomp]

Upon reading all the excited posts about the new ZCO 4-20 and Kahles 3-18, I am struggling to understand how either improve upon the specs of the S&B 3-20 ultrashort. The S&B has better mag range, field of view, and top notch glass and mechanics. The only possible "improvements," at least to me as someone who has never used any of these brands, would seem to be reticle options (depending on personal preference) and price.

What am I missing? Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated. Getting myself ready to take the plunge into alpha-class optics and in a constant state of indecision at the prospect of forking over $3000+ .

The only reason I didn't include the TT 3-15 is that I prefer a higher top-end magnification range. Even though the 6.5 Saum I'm putting this scope on is primarily a hunting rifle, I really like at least 18 or 20 zoom when playing around long distances at the range.

 

[Covertnoob5]

I think there are a few things. Having owned a 3-20US and currently own a 5-20US with H59 I would prefer a simpler free reticle. The h59 is fine, but I’d prefer a skmr3 or something. Also, I’d really prefer a less crowded elevation turret. At 17 mils per turn its really crowded and takes way more effort to see where I’m at than it does with my NF. Also, reports are on the zco the glass could be TT level. And yes TT glass is better than s&b glass.
So you get better glass, better turret spacing, and a better reticle In the zco if it lives up to the hype.

 

[grizzlestomp]

As far as the turrets, can't you get the 12 mil double turn turrets with the S&B 3-20 US?

I do see the point that if the ZCO glass and reticles are better, and the scope is cheaper, that might offer a significantly better option (assuming the field reports from Hide members prove the tracking/mechanics/etc).

 

[redneckbmxer24]

How can you compare two optics that are unreleased? I don’t think anyone here has a crystal ball and I wouldn’t put 100% faith into feedback from testing prototypes either as the final production product could easily have improvements or cut corners.

Wait until they’ve been on the market and ask this. If you’re comparing spec sheets then that really means nothing and is an armchair assessment.

 

[bjay]

As far as the turrets, can't you get the 12 mil double turn turrets with the S&B 3-20 US?

I do see the point that if the ZCO glass and reticles are better, and the scope is cheaper, that might offer a significantly better option (assuming the field reports from Hide members prove the tracking/mechanics/etc).

Im pretty sure all 3-20 US are double turns

 

[grizzlestomp]

How can you compare two optics that are unreleased? I don’t think anyone here has a crystal ball and I wouldn’t put 100% faith into feedback from testing prototypes either as the final production product could easily have improvements or cut corners.

Wait until they’ve been on the market and ask this. If you’re comparing spec sheets then that really means nothing and is an armchair assessment.

Understood and agreed. My only point is that, even assuming all specs are 100% true as to the unreleased scopes, I was trying to understand what improvements they would offer to determine whether or not I should wait for their release and subsequent field testing/reviews or move forward with purchasing an S&B 3-20US

 

[Glassaholic]

The 3-20 US is pretty much the standard for comparison. And you’re right, spec wise it still trumps the ZCO and Kahles but one of its struggles is with reticles. With the MSR2 and the LRR-Mil it should finally have some better options but those who rely on Christmas tree rets will still be looking and to me that is what may give the ZCO and Kahles the edge. ZCO may be a TT competitor but we won’t know until they get competently reviewed.

If you like the existing Schmidt reticles then I don’t see anything that should hold you back from getting a 3-20 US.

 

[B-P-UU]

The only reason I didn't include the TT 3-15 is that I prefer a higher top-end magnification range. Even though the 6.5 Saum I'm putting this scope on is primarily a hunting rifle, I really like at least 18 or 20 zoom when playing around long distances at the range.

You must be my dopple-ganger.. I'm waiting on a 5-20 US for a SAUM hunting rifle as well. Sold a TT315M as I also wanted more on the top end. Opted for the 5-20 as 3x seems to pretty thin anyways and like the smaller package. Going P4F.. half MIL graduations is plenty for a hunting rig in my opinion and really don't want a tree in that application anyways.
Ordered mine with the 13 or 14 MIL per rev double turn MTC locking turrets.. so a little bit better spacing over the 17 MIL per rev mentioned above.

I also prefer the low profile turrets and capped windage on hunting rifles. I don't have it in hand yet, but it certainly checks a lot of boxes for what I want in a long-range hunting scope.

 

[Covertnoob5]

You must be my dopple-ganger.. I'm waiting on a 5-20 US for a SAUM hunting rifle as well. Sold a TT315M as I also wanted more on the top end. Opted for the 5-20 as 3x seems to pretty thin anyways and like the smaller package. Going P4F.. half MIL graduations is plenty for a hunting rig in my opinion and really don't want a tree in that application anyways.
Ordered mine with the 13 or 14 MIL per rev double turn MTC locking turrets.. so a little bit better spacing over the 17 MIL per rev mentioned above.

I also prefer the low profile turrets and capped windage on hunting rifles. I don't have it in hand yet, but it certainly checks a lot of boxes for what I want in a long-range hunting scope.

Anybody know where I can find a picture of these new turrets? Thanks!

 

[B-P-UU]

Anybody know where I can find a picture of these new turrets? Thanks!

I don't have a pic but S&B told me there were 2 options for DT on the 5-20 US.. 34 MIL and 27 MIL (total over 2 revs). I opted for 27 MIL. Should have the scope in a few weeks.

There is also a 17 MIL single turn.. or something close to that.

 

[Glassaholic]

Here's my Chanlynn/Bighorn SAUM, granted it is a 7mm SAUM which I still prefer over the 6.5 but that is me It is my main long range/hunting rifle but my SAC 6.5 Creed is quickly moving up...

Here it is with the Premier LT 3-15x50 (basically the TT315M)

Then I put the Kahles K624i on it because I wanted something "more" than 15x like grizzle and B-P mention above

Then I got the Schmidt 3-20x50 (not the US) but hated the H2CMR reticle so sorry, no pics (but man I loved that scope)

Then I put the Schmidt 5-20x50 US on it for a short time (yes that is the Ultra Short but it does have a 2" sunshade on it)

But the scope that currently graces it is the Minox ZP5 (in the background)

The ZCO will have locking turrets and I wonder if the ZC420 would be a better fit... assuming the mechanics are reliable, if the optics come close to TT and the depth is there for an Ultra Short design, then this might just be the ticket!

But also, Schmidt just announced a new 3-21x50 scope defined as a "competition/hunting" scope so not sure what that means yet, but if it's lighter weight with FFP reticle like MSR2, that might be a serious contender as well; however, Schmidt is notorious for taking FOREVER to get a unit to market after it's first been announced, so I would not expect this until 2019 at best but more than likely 2020 time-frame before it gets onto shelves here in the US.

 

[koshkin]

The 3-21x50 is supposed to be a SFP design.

Ilya

 

[MysizeisMAGNUM]

The 3-21x50 is supposed to be a SFP design.

Ilya

I was excited for almost a full second.

 

[koshkin]

I was excited for almost a full second.

The scope I saw at SHOT was a prototype, but I specifically asked them and they said SFP. That does not mean they won't change their mind or bring out another version at some point, of course.

ILya

 

[Glassaholic]

Well at least I can stop hoping for something it is not or will not be. I suppose it makes sense, why a ffp 3-21 when they already have a 3-20. Man I really want to see that ZCO 4-20

 

[koshkin]

You and I both.

ILya