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JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

E

ESSAYONS

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
May 4, 2010
99
0
53
Dallas, Texas
Need some help. I am new to this site and have really been bitten by target and varmit shooting. I am considering a heavy Sabre Defense Bench Target AR15 and a JP15 rifle with the 22'' barrel. My hope is sub 1/2'' MOA. I have a Springfield Armory 10X56 Government scope to mount.

My use is:
Bench shooting to 400yds
Silohette/steel shooting to 400yds
Varmit hunting

Thoughts?
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

I have 2 JP uppers (16" & 18"), plus a 20" JP barrel and handguard on an Armalite rifle.

I also have a Sabre Defence SR-15 with a replacement Sabre mid-length 16" bbl.

For long-range I've been curious about a JP in 6.5 Grendel.
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

I have an 18" JP that I use for 3gun. With 77's it shoots 3/4 moa with my handloads. This weekend I was ringing a 12" plate at 525 without too much trouble and I had probably 500 rounds through it without cleaning it. When I was looking to buy a top of the line Ar I searched around the net and JP was the only one I couldn't find someone bad mouthing. Take that for what you paid for it but I can't complain
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eng07</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My hope is sub 1/2'' MOA.
Thoughts? </div></div>

Are you a 1/2 MOA driver
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eng07</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My hope is sub 1/2'' MOA.
Thoughts? </div></div>

Are you a 1/2 MOA driver
</div></div>

THIS!!

Sub-1/2 MOA accuracy from any AR on a consistent basis is the holy grail for most AR shooters. It is something that you just aren't going to get from ANY factory-built rifle/upper. Now, with that said, both the JP and Sabre Def rifles/uppers use high quality components and with the proper ammo and (more importantly) the proper shooter, they will achieve accuracy somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/2 MOA accuracy...but sub-1/2 MOA...don't get your hopes up.

The other "weak link" in your particular equation is the optics you are planning to run. If you want to maximize the potential of a high-quality AR, ditch the crap Springfield scope and get some decent glass.
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

yes the shooter is the nut behind the wheel but every single les baer super varmint I have ever seen at the range or own with factory ammo will cut ragged holes in the 2's and 3's 5-10 shot groups at 100 yards..IF the shooter does his part. My David Lauck listed above will duplicate the same task all day every day, IF the shooter can do their part. to say "sub 1/2 moa, dont get your hopes up" totally disagree....a JP, LB or similar in varmint set up with good optics will go toe to toe with any varmint, tactical custom bolt gun at any price built by any shop.
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

I have seen the Les Baer AR rifles being built and I have shot several different models. I don't group them in the same category as a "factory rifle" or in the same category as the JP/Sabre/etc. rifles. The fitting, finishing, attention to detail, quality of components, etc. that goes into the Baer rifles is NOT something you'll find in a "factory" built/assembled rifle. Baer is a custom shop, building "production" model rifles all with the same specs/features/etc. A LOT more goes into the building of the Les Baer rifles than your average AR. Same for David's rifles which are second to none...all of David's work is pure custom and it performs accordingly.

If you re-read my post, I was only referring to the JP and Sabre rifles/uppers that the OP listed when I said "don't get your hopes up" on consistent sub-1/2 MOA accuracy. I have handled/shot numerous JP rifles (223/308/6.5G) and while they were all approx. 1/2 MOA capable...they were NOT sub-1/2 MOA rifles from my experience with a variety of ammo options. Still not bad by any means...but I don't think it is fair to get the OP's hopes up of consistent sub-1/2 MOA accuracy from a JP or Sabre rifle. A Les Baer on the other hand...
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eng07</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> My hope is sub 1/2'' MOA.
Thoughts? </div></div>

Are you a 1/2 MOA driver
</div></div>
This is a great question, most people want a super tight grouping gun but they lack the experiance to outshoot the gun.
Before I started shooting for groups and any type of long range shooting I was always told "As long as you hit the paper plate at a hundred yards you are looking good" well that may be true to an AK or likewise. After I learned how to really shoot I watched as my groups in all my guns got better and now I don't own anything that won't shoot sub MOA except my mossberg 500. If you can't shoot the groups the rifle can then buy a basic rifle until you can outshoot that and save the money for ammo.
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

Thanks for your feedback. 1/2 MOA would work...what kind of glass would you recommend? I have a 10X42 Hensoldt that I literally bought from a friend ten years or more ago that was a sniper at the 10th MTN DIV. I have to admit- I am not fond of the scope. 1''tube, MIL-Dot reticle- I like the newer 30M scopes. I have really considered selling that Hensoldt with my 1993 Colt Hbar and putting all that $ into the JP15 rifle.
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

Strangedays..thanks for the feedback. I started this whole tactical shooting about a year ago by buying a .308 PSS and mounted the 10X56 Springfield Govt scope. I tweaked my loads and shoot the 168 Sierras, lapua brass, CCI primer and 45grs N550 in .5'' groups or less at 100 yards. That really put the shooting bite into me. I have a Colt HBAR 20'' stock gun- fixed carry handle preban that is just not scope friendly- and it has the old high sear block that the SAbre Defense rep warned me about with buying Non Colt uppers. Called COLT and they do not sell uppers onl- besides teh trigger in that Colt is horrible stock trigger. My thought is sell the Colt and along with the extra upper I have fo it (1:7 and 1:9) and reinvest into a higher grade gun such as a JP or Wilson.
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

I have both a JP CTR-02 and DL Precision AR and would state they are both equal in Accuracy. For Field use, I would go with the DL.
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

oh good god man !!!!!!




yah don't got to take it in the tookas and drop 5 large on a AR platform to get the holes to drop into the bottom of a coffee cup
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eng07</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Springfield Armory 10X56 Government scope to mount.
</div></div>

Please place that item in the nearest dumpster before you waste any ammo using it.
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eng07</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Springfield Armory 10X56 Government scope to mount.
</div></div>

Please place that item in the nearest dumpster before you waste any ammo using it.</div></div>




...verily so...........
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

The Sabre Defense barrels are under-rated.

I have a 18" 6.5 grendel Sabre bbl and it shoots as good as my bolt gun (sub-moa). It shoots like a laser, I was very surprised of how well it shot or maybe I justed lucked out and ended up with a really accurate bbl. I couldnt believe of how accurate an AR-platform can be. It shoots 5-shot groups that fit under the size of a dime @ 100yrds all day. I love it.
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

500grains...what is your recommendation for Optics? Dont have a budget for S&B. Have to be around the 1k mark.
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

Please understand that I am not taking a potshot at you. Today I was at the range with a friend and I busted his balls about a 200 dollar scope he was using. At 300 yards the target looked like I was seeing it through bathtub water. And it did not track worth a hoot.

See if you can find a used but excellent condition Nightforce. Another option would be to purchase a somewhat cheaper AR and a better scope. There is no way that Springfield can do justice to a JP. Or to a Rem 700 for that matter.

Example of a used Nightforce (not mine):

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1793201&gonew=1#UNREAD

(not mine)

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1794124&gonew=1#UNREAD


Or if you can put up with a fixed power, the Super Sniper 10x, 16x or 20x from SWFA costs only 300 bucks and is very reliable.

http://swfa-ss.com/

You can pick up a Leupold for less than a Nightforce, such as this (not mine):

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1790758&gonew=1#UNREAD
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

Also, when looking for used, it may take some time for what you want to pop up, so be ready to jump on the right one when it becomes available.

People will have lots of different ideas about rings and there are a bunch of good ones out there. But on an AR, it is important to move the scope forward for the correct eye relief. A Larue SPR mount (for a 3.5-10 sized scope) or SPR-E (for a larger scope) is my personal preference on an AR.
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

+1 on the nightforce or super sniper. Maybe buy the SS for now and get the NF later?

My POFs are sub .75" capable. . another option..
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

Picked up a Mark 4 LRT 8.5-25 last week for 1300 new...took 500gr advice- really clear scope.
 
Re: JP Enterprises or Sabre Defense

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eng07</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Picked up a Mark 4 LRT 8.5-25 last week for 1300 new...took 500gr advice- really clear scope. </div></div>

WOW!! Well, you certainly won't need any <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic">more</span></span> magnification than that on a 5.56 AR!!
wink.gif
 
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