My question is, in open division is the use of a heavy Olympic style shooting coat, with sling attached/latched just below the shoulder, within the rules?
Thanks
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- Thread starter steve123
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If allowed (which I doubt), you’ll only use it for standing - and honestly, that is not a common position and it’s not a position that typically requires pin point accuracy. Typically, any standing shots are at large (5” to 6”) gongs at 40-50 yards.
To me, it wouldn’t be worth the cost and the effort. Plus it would be restricting on the following, or previous stage shots. Meaning you won’t have a stage where all 10 shots are standing.
To me, it wouldn’t be worth the cost and the effort. Plus it would be restricting on the following, or previous stage shots. Meaning you won’t have a stage where all 10 shots are standing.
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My other sling is pissing me off because it slides down my arm and it's hard to get the loop on it tight enough to stay where it's supposed to.
Last week I got the 30 year old shooting coat out, dusted it off, and it works so much better for me in offhand and kneeling. Also it's easy/fast to detach the sling from the rifle and the old leather sling just falls down out of the way without flopping around like a modern fabric sling does.
The old coat and sling seems to help the most in unsupported prone. I think I've got half the wobble zone vs the other sling and no coat. It's usually the guy who does best on the paper stage that wins, so...
I'll bring it tomorrow and if the MD says no then I'll make do.
Last week I got the 30 year old shooting coat out, dusted it off, and it works so much better for me in offhand and kneeling. Also it's easy/fast to detach the sling from the rifle and the old leather sling just falls down out of the way without flopping around like a modern fabric sling does.
The old coat and sling seems to help the most in unsupported prone. I think I've got half the wobble zone vs the other sling and no coat. It's usually the guy who does best on the paper stage that wins, so...
I'll bring it tomorrow and if the MD says no then I'll make do.
Shooting coats are allowed (both classes), and I agree it is most helpful in prone unsupported. Is of benefit in standing as well, no problem in other positions (sitting/kneeling) as long as it is setup correctly. I have used mine in the past for those stages where it is a benefit.
That said, if I didn't already have one I doubt I would buy one just for NRL22.
That said, if I didn't already have one I doubt I would buy one just for NRL22.
The MD said no, stating that stage rules mentioned "only" a sling". Gonna have to talk to him next time about this.
No matter, I hit all the standing and kneeling shots without a sling.
The ladder at the match has a low rung that's about 2"s higher than the 6' ladder I have at home so I wasted about 40 seconds finding a new position that was reasonably comfortable for me. First shot was absolutely dead center in the 10 and 2nd was touching it! Then I timed out on the ladder stage when I went to put the sling on, darnit, man that 2 minutes goes by fast!
But I did good enough on the rest of the stages that I won the match, encouraging for me because 3 other shooters that usually win were there.
It was a fun match for sure!
Anyone else want to weigh in on this subject, especially MD's, I'd appreciate it.
No matter, I hit all the standing and kneeling shots without a sling.
The ladder at the match has a low rung that's about 2"s higher than the 6' ladder I have at home so I wasted about 40 seconds finding a new position that was reasonably comfortable for me. First shot was absolutely dead center in the 10 and 2nd was touching it! Then I timed out on the ladder stage when I went to put the sling on, darnit, man that 2 minutes goes by fast!
But I did good enough on the rest of the stages that I won the match, encouraging for me because 3 other shooters that usually win were there.
It was a fun match for sure!
Anyone else want to weigh in on this subject, especially MD's, I'd appreciate it.
The rules state exactly what equipment is allowed. If it says sling only, then no other additional gear to assist in stability can be used.
Where does it state this?
NRL22 rules are vague, to say the least. If it is not specifically called out as "not allowed" then it is allowed.
The MD has final say about anything at his/her shoot, subjective to say the least.
I have seen decisions that were questionable, stage "interpretations" .
Equipment "allowed" , "sling only", pertains to the equipment used to support the rifle. A shooting coat does NOT support the rifle, rather stiffens the torso, (and is not attached to the rifle in any way) so therefore is allowed.
Using elbow pads legal for prone unsupported/supported, knee pads for kneeling/transitioning? If so then the shooting coat is also legal as it pads the elbows. main reason I like to wear it for prone. Does the shooting coat support the rifle if it is not being worn? Never saw that, but I suppose someone could come up with one that could.
Does it state anywhere that you can use shooting mats? In the rules?
Now to belabor the point, when I shot NRA Rifle Silhouette, shooting coats were not allowed (and still aren't), but trap/skeet vests were. Some were worn so tight they "acted" like a light weight shooting coat to stiffen the torso. Rule change, must be able to insert a PCV pipe (can't remember if 3" or 4" diameter between coat and shooter. Problem solved? or was it. There were shooters wearing 3-4 sweat shirts with a fall/winter coat to bulk up (read stiffen body support) in July!
Personally I see no reason shooting coats should not be allowed, as they are not specifically listed as not allowed. I know of at least 2 MD that agree. Lots of items in use that are not specifically listed as "allowed or not allowed", all have value to the person that is using that item.
Again, the first line of this reply answers the question.
And on a lighter note, if it is cold out, who is to say that is not my "winter" coat!
JMHO
The point is... it (the coat) provides additional support. The only allowable item to provide support is the sling. Additional support, or stability assistance, other than a sling, should not be allowed.
I understand your "point", however until there is a RULE that prohibits its use, I (and others) feel it (the coat) is useable.
Again, the coat does not provide additional support for the rifle.
The NRL22 powers that be need to make a ruling on this to clear things up. Just as was done with the AMP plates.
Personally, as I had stated previously, I would not buy one for NRL22 as its use is limited.
This is all I have to say on this issue. Again, JMHO
Have a great day!
Wouldn't it be cool if one of the rule makers of NRL22 came in this thread and gave a concrete answer one way or the other.
I did have two winter coats on which seemed to help me not shiver and maybe took some of the wobble off the shoulder/rifle butt contact point.
Oh, and what about a shooting glove???
I did have two winter coats on which seemed to help me not shiver and maybe took some of the wobble off the shoulder/rifle butt contact point.
Oh, and what about a shooting glove???
Either way, it is all up to the MD, until NRL22 comes out with concrete rulings.
If you contact NRL22 about rules, they'll give the same response to everyone. "ask your MD". Which SUCKS, IMO.
If you contact NRL22 about rules, they'll give the same response to everyone. "ask your MD". Which SUCKS, IMO.
They don't have to write rules for each specific piece of equipment. All they need to say is what is allowed and draw the line there. If its not on the list, then it cannot be used.
When you start talking about " intent of the stage" you're really asking a lot from a group of shooters who are well known for "cheating" or gaming. I know that basically all of the shooters I shoot with are fully capable of understanding intent of the stage as written, but a fair number will exploit the description where it is vague. The NRL22 was designed to be affordable off season series for everyone to be able to shoot. I think that too many have taken the series to extremes and that takes a lot of the fun and friendly competition out of it. In my opinion, if it says sling only, use only the damn sling. Can you not hit a 5" plate at 40yds offhand? maybe you should rethink your own skills before competing. I have yet to shoot an NRL22 stage that can't be cleaned with a decent squirrel gun with a good scope and basic shooting gear. When you start breaking out all the trick jackets and gloves and plates and other shit, you're killing the sport. Practice more and get better.
Not all of us are badasses who can shoot 500 with their grandpas old lever action. ?
People are going to try and bend rules to get any advantage they can. It's like that in any sport.
I'm aware that everyone tries what they can. I didn't say that I clean all of them all the time, but every stage is doable, especially on a 2min time. Just kills me to see folks come out to try a new sport, then get pissed when some "experienced" shooter comes up after them and clearly bends the rules, because they "know how to". good way to discourage new shooters from coming back. I would say that people showing up in expensive shooting jackets would definitely qualify.
I have been toying around the idea of using an old walther KKJ bolt action, and it was grandpa's old squirrel gun, and I'll bet i could clean a couple off hand stages with it and no jacket.
I have been toying around the idea of using an old walther KKJ bolt action, and it was grandpa's old squirrel gun, and I'll bet i could clean a couple off hand stages with it and no jacket.
The NRL22 is for fun, more than anything. A person who shows up with an Olympic style shooting jacket is taking it a little too far. And for anyone to get upset that it is not allowed makes no sense.
A good sling and practice, IMO, trumps any jacket for NRL. As I said at the start of this thread - the unsupported stages don't require pin point precision. If you can't hit a 5" gong at 40 yards with a sling, then you need practice, not a fancy jacket.
And the stages require movement and transition. A skin tight leather jacket is made to restrict movement. Not something I want on me when the clock starts.
A good sling and practice, IMO, trumps any jacket for NRL. As I said at the start of this thread - the unsupported stages don't require pin point precision. If you can't hit a 5" gong at 40 yards with a sling, then you need practice, not a fancy jacket.
And the stages require movement and transition. A skin tight leather jacket is made to restrict movement. Not something I want on me when the clock starts.
I can totally agree with using different body positions like that. I even think that the example you give is another good way to do it. The real thing I was after, is when people manipulate the writing and really go after it. Case in point, they had to include a ruling that eliminated resting a bipod on you hand which was on the ground in unsupported prone stages. I saw it as out right cheating, others saw it as legal. That kind of stuff is totally outside the intent of the stage as written, but not clearly stated against, technically.
I know it's going to happen, just wish it wouldn't. Would really like everyone to compete at the same level, using their skills shooting the stage as intended. You can't possibly get a good read on your status as a shooter when half the guys you're shooting against are cheating.
I know it's going to happen, just wish it wouldn't. Would really like everyone to compete at the same level, using their skills shooting the stage as intended. You can't possibly get a good read on your status as a shooter when half the guys you're shooting against are cheating.
Keep in mind that I didn't use a sling and hit all the standing and offhand targets, and I have been practicing positional. Granted those were easy this time but that might not be the case in the future.
I've got over $200 in so called tactical style slings which don't work for me well and this old sling and coat does because there's a metal hook attached to the coat that keeps the sling from falling down - and it's all paid for.
If I leave the bottom buckles undone on the coat I can move around just fine. I just hate hassling with slings that move down my arm is all, which is half my motivation for using the coat. The other half is it does help steady me up.
The other thing is I shoot Field Target air rifle and I was just short of winning state the last few years because I didn't use a sling for the offhand and kneeling shots, which is where the match was won or lost. The guy that won was using his shooting coat and sling. I swore this year I was going to use mine. The use of a sling and shooting coat is allowed in certain divisions. So I'm practicing with the coat and sling a lot now.
I've got over $200 in so called tactical style slings which don't work for me well and this old sling and coat does because there's a metal hook attached to the coat that keeps the sling from falling down - and it's all paid for.
If I leave the bottom buckles undone on the coat I can move around just fine. I just hate hassling with slings that move down my arm is all, which is half my motivation for using the coat. The other half is it does help steady me up.
The other thing is I shoot Field Target air rifle and I was just short of winning state the last few years because I didn't use a sling for the offhand and kneeling shots, which is where the match was won or lost. The guy that won was using his shooting coat and sling. I swore this year I was going to use mine. The use of a sling and shooting coat is allowed in certain divisions. So I'm practicing with the coat and sling a lot now.
That and my short arms, lol.
Just 3 years ago I was doing 14 pull ups with 45lbs of weight strapped on. They have shrunk a little since then though.
But for the life of me I can't get these damn slings to stay put without cranking the sh!t out of the strap and pinching flesh.
SAP sling. Problem solved.
Then don't fucking wear one and stop concerning yourself with what others do.
I don't wear one and never will.
The OP was asking for input regarding the jacket and its legality. When they ask for input, then others are allowed to voice their opinion and add their concern.
Thanks! ?
I went to youtube and watched some videos, they do seem to be easy to use. One of my bungee slings is supposed to be but it isn't.
Might have to find some guy with big biceps to sell it to, lol.
On the same account, to all, do you allow movement/manipulation of the barricade if not specified in the stage rules? For instance, do you allow the shooter to rotate the chair/ladder if they want for their position building? or do you require it is not allowed to be moved? Ive been to a few matches that do not and one that has. I vote yes, but Ive been wrong before and will soon be again.
They have said that the stage needs to be shot as shown. The chair, for instance, is not to be moved or rotated.
I was at a match recently where the ladder had braces on the off side that interfered with the bullet path or the sighting of the target (read couldn't see target through the scope due to brace). As a point of information, the very first shot of the day on the ladder stage, the competitor shot through one of the braces! This is a serious safety issue!
When our squad arrived at the station we asked the MD/RO if the ladder could be turned just a bit so that the shots went between the legs, still using the steps as defined. We were allowed to do so. Then they made a statement that all previous squads could reshoot the stage doing so as well, if desired.
Not all ladders are manufactured the same. The ladder in question had a brace on the off side for every step (or every other step, don't remember now) with the brace interfering with each.
The MD/RO needs to verify that the ladders used will be safe to shoot from with/without bags, before the start of the match.
JMHO
When our squad arrived at the station we asked the MD/RO if the ladder could be turned just a bit so that the shots went between the legs, still using the steps as defined. We were allowed to do so. Then they made a statement that all previous squads could reshoot the stage doing so as well, if desired.
Not all ladders are manufactured the same. The ladder in question had a brace on the off side for every step (or every other step, don't remember now) with the brace interfering with each.
The MD/RO needs to verify that the ladders used will be safe to shoot from with/without bags, before the start of the match.
JMHO
The MD should have been aware of this while setting up the course. The idea is to test each stage to make sure it works with the equipment you have available and no safety issues are overlooked. If the bracing was in the way and nobody noticed until a bullet flew through it - that is due to the MD's negligence.
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