Please give advice multiple questions 338 vs 416 rifle and ammo selection

[aika]

Hello,
I am civilian and am researching my next rifle purchase. I currently have a Remington model 700 7 mag as my all purpose hunting rifle (hogs, deer). I would like to upgrade for sport shooting and long range hunting (deer/hogs) (looking for something a little different and challenging).

I have been debating the 416 barrett vs the 338 lapua mag. I am really not interested in any other cartridges. One of the reasons I like the 338 lapua is ammo selection.

1. All I can find in the barrett is the 416 BTHP match. Am I wrong to think this is not a good hunting cartridge?

2. For a 338 lapua mag (bolt action), what do you guys recommend regarding McMillan vs Barrett vs Tac Ops? I don't like the folding stock of Accuracy International (KISS). I love Tac Ops reputation and accuracy. I don't know much about Barrett other than they have been in the business and have developed a great name for themselves. Is the Barrett Model98 in 338 lapua better than the Tac 338?

3. Having said all that, where does Accuracy International really fit into the discussion of Tac Ops vs Barrett vs McMillan?

I don't really care about the cost of rifle or ammo. I just want to treat myself for a change.

Thank you!!

 

[strike33]

AI is at the top
Tac Ops (Remington Action) I'm not sure if Mike is building 338s
Any properly assembled bolt gun from the top smiths (SAC, Accurate Ordnance, PCR,GAP, LRI, RWS, and many other)
Mcmillan

then the Barrett (the MRAD is a better choice than the 98B)

 

[aika]

Yes sir thank you.

BTW, I've the the Tac Ops in 338 lapua mag posted up before.

 

[strike33]

well if you can handle the wait then Mike will build you a rifle that will far exceed your expectations.
Great guy to talk to and will make sure you have exactly what is right for you

 

[MitchAlsup]

As far as hunting goes, the 338 LM will drop any animal living in our hemisphere DRT out past 1000 yards when the shot hits vitals.

 

[Roddd]

There's a beautiful AI AW in 338 in the classifieds right now. It's the fixed stock and is reasonably priced. I know you have reservations about a folder, but you shouldn't. Anything AI builds will last for the long haul. I'd get one of them over a Barrett any day. As for where AI fits in, they're right at the top accuracy wise. I haven't seen a Tac Ops in 338, but that doesn't mean they don't exist and that Mike can't build you one. Also, look at GAP, SAC, AO and the other sponsors on here. They can build you one impressive rifle, I don't see why you are limiting yourself to McMillan and Barrett.

 

[steve123]

A Surgeon Remedy should definitely be a consideration. IMO the Surgeon XL is the best tactical action ever created. Rifles | Surgeon Rifles

 

[coldboremiracle]

You should care about cost, if your questions are any indication as to your familiarity with the subject matter, it may exceed your budget.
The Lapua seems to fit the bill for the activities you describe, the Barrett is what Barrett usually seems to be, overrated and more money than performance can justify. But it will do the job, even sideways, regardless of BTHP or other construction.(as will the Lapua)
There are literally hundreds if great options strewn about the pages of Snipershide, a few more days reading would probably answer your questions and the ones you haven't thought of yet.
KISS is a great way to go, but that is no reason to disregard a folder, especially an AI.

 

[W54/XM-388]

If you have a really really long range to shoot at, the 416 could be interesting (as could a .408 if you are willing to put a lot of work into perfecting it)
The .338 LM is a great mid long range round and the ammo for it is pretty easy to find everywhere.

 

[aika]

As far as hunting goes, the 338 LM will drop any animal living in our hemisphere DRT out past 1000 yards when the shot hits vitals.

I am no expert, but I do know a little about effectiveness, including impact force (velocity), yaw, temporary cavities, pressure waves, permanent cavities. I have shot a deer with my 7 mag at close range and he was hit extremely hard in the vitals through and through and did not drop DRT. I have made changes to my ammo and have not had a similar problem.

 

[aika]

There's a beautiful AI AW in 338 in the classifieds right now. It's the fixed stock and is reasonably priced. I know you have reservations about a folder, but you shouldn't. Anything AI builds will last for the long haul. I'd get one of them over a Barrett any day. As for where AI fits in, they're right at the top accuracy wise. I haven't seen a Tac Ops in 338, but that doesn't mean they don't exist and that Mike can't build you one. Also, look at GAP, SAC, AO and the other sponsors on here. They can build you one impressive rifle, I don't see why you are limiting yourself to McMillan and Barrett.

The tac ops was posted in this forum. I tried attaching the link to the thread but my message did not post. I am not limiting myself to McMillan and Barrett, and in fact, thanks to Strike, I am not considering Barrett because I'd take the AI over the MRAD (both have folding stocks). I am sure the AI is a nice gun, but it is not really what I am looking for. I am not interested in a folding stock, and I'm not interested in a gun with the ability to change barrels, etc. I just want the best simple, dependable, accurate rifle. That is my preference and I am in no hurry to rush into something I am not completely satisfied with.

 

[aika]

A Surgeon Remedy should definitely be a consideration. IMO the Surgeon XL is the best tactical action ever created. Rifles | Surgeon Rifles

Thank you. The Tac Ops 338 was made with the Surgeon action.

 

[aika]

You should care about cost, if your questions are any indication as to your familiarity with the subject matter, it may exceed your budget.
The Lapua seems to fit the bill for the activities you describe, the Barrett is what Barrett usually seems to be, overrated and more money than performance can justify. But it will do the job, even sideways, regardless of BTHP or other construction.(as will the Lapua)
There are literally hundreds if great options strewn about the pages of Snipershide, a few more days reading would probably answer your questions and the ones you haven't thought of yet.
KISS is a great way to go, but that is no reason to disregard a folder, especially an AI.

I am not sure how to take your comment about cost. Of course I consider cost. But if it comes to spending money for something I truly treasure, then that is the cost. I have had my 7 mag for 20 years and I still love it the same the day I bought it. You may have noticed I joined in 2009 although my post count is low. I love to read and learn. As I said before, I am no expert, which is why I sought advice. I appreciate any constructive information. But for me personally, I can't justify the price of the AI of MRAD when I am not completely happy with it. I hope that makes sense.

 

[aika]

If you have a really really long range to shoot at, the 416 could be interesting (as could a .408 if you are willing to put a lot of work into perfecting it)
The .338 LM is a great mid long range round and the ammo for it is pretty easy to find everywhere.

The 416 is kick ass and in my opinion the best long range shot available. But I don't think it will fit what I am looking for. I'm thinking a 338 with proper ammo will be better for me than the 416 BTHP match.

I love the McMillan Tac 416, and that rifle is something I'd consider dropping considerable money for.

Thank you.

 

[aika]

well if you can handle the wait then Mike will build you a rifle that will far exceed your expectations.
Great guy to talk to and will make sure you have exactly what is right for you

Hey Strike thanks for helping out so much. Custom is the only way to go.

I found the Rock Solid stocks. This is how I pictured my dream gun!

 

[strike33]

I hope it all works out for you. Mike will build you a work of art...as will any of the other builders mentioned. It may come down to who can build it it the shortest amount of time, but that will take some research.

The Rock Solid has a great reputation. I've had three different folders and am sold on them.
Also, check out the KMW Sentinel stock. That fits your requirements perfectly.

Best of luck

 

[aika]

I hope it all works out for you. Mike will build you a work of art...as will any of the other builders mentioned. It may come down to who can build it it the shortest amount of time, but that will take some research.

The Rock Solid has a great reputation. I've had three different folders and am sold on them.
Also, check out the KMW Sentinel stock. That fits your requirements perfectly.

Best of luck

I like the pistol grip. More aesthetic than anything else.

So you were able to get the Rock Solid folder? I just finished reading the entire thread and it seemed they have not come out yet, other than a retrofit?

Also, the RS vs the RS-R...
sorry for the stupid question...could either of those stocks be used with a Surgeon or Remington 700 action chambered in 338 LM?

 

[strike33]

Sorry for the confusion.
The folders I have owned are the Manners, AICS both thumbhole and pistol grip, as well as the Cadex Strike 33
The Rock Solid would make an awesome comp or even hunting rig

 

[coldboremiracle]

I am not sure how to take your comment about cost. Of course I consider cost. But if it comes to spending money for something I truly treasure, then that is the cost. I have had my 7 mag for 20 years and I still love it the same the day I bought it. You may have noticed I joined in 2009 although my post count is low. I love to read and learn. As I said before, I am no expert, which is why I sought advice. I appreciate any constructive information. But for me personally, I can't justify the price of the AI of MRAD when I am not completely happy with it. I hope that makes sense.

Ya, thats kind of what I meant. You've been here for more than three years and are asking questions about two hugely different calibers (some would argue different applications entirely), a very narrow selection of rifles (considering the plethora of options here). In short, these are very easy answers, based almost entirely on your preference.

 

[aika]

Ya, thats kind of what I meant. You've been here for more than three years and are asking questions about two hugely different calibers (some would argue different applications entirely), a very narrow selection of rifles (considering the plethora of options here). In short, these are very easy answers, based almost entirely on your preference.

Yeah you are right it really boils down to my preference. Really if the ammo was more available, I would not have a problem with the McMillan Tac416.

I have received a great wealth of information. Thank you all.

For anyone else considering a custom 338 LM, the Remington 700 LA is not the best way to go. One should look for an action milled specific to 338 LM (such as offered by Stillers and Surgeon)

 

[Dogtown]

The 416 is kick ass and in my opinion the best long range shot available. But I don't think it will fit what I am looking for. I'm thinking a 338 with proper ammo will be better for me than the 416 BTHP match.

Huh? Where did you get that impression? Go to the Beyond 1000 Yards section and ask how many people are shooting ELR distances with .416 Barrett....crickets. Most take .338LM to a mile and beyond that move to .338 wildcat variants or up to .375CT & .50BMG, though there are still some .408CT holdouts.

 

[didithurt]

As far as hunting goes, the 338 LM will drop any animal living in our hemisphere DRT out past 1000 yards when the shot hits vitals.

X2..! The .338 L.M. is my favorite. I don't own one, but R E A L L Y want one, I would seriously think long and hard before overlooking the .338 over anything if I had a choice, yes even over the 50 BMG. That's just my .02 cents though... The 50 is really high on the cool factor though... even if I had no concern for ammo or cost, I'd still personally go with the .338.

 

[aika]

Huh? Where did you get that impression? Go to the Beyond 1000 Yards section and ask how many people are shooting ELR distances with .416 Barrett....crickets. Most take .338LM to a mile and beyond that move to .338 wildcat variants or up to .375CT & .50BMG, though there are still some .408CT holdouts.

Basically, ballistics. The 416 may not be as pin point accurate as the 338, but to my knowledge, the 416 shoots straighter and carries more energy downfield.

 

[Dogtown]

So when you said it was "the best long range shot available" you only meant on paper? Because real world results over the last five years has proven quite the opposite. It had potential, but suffered from a number of problems and because of that it's almost exclusively used by people who want a .416 Barrett and not actual ELR shooters. And comparing it with a .338LM seems an odd choice.

 

[aika]

So when you said it was "the best long range shot available" you only meant on paper? Because real world results over the last five years has proven quite the opposite. It had potential, but suffered from a number of problems and because of that it's almost exclusively used by people who want a .416 Barrett and not actual ELR shooters. And comparing it with a .338LM seems an odd choice.

Quite the opposite. The 416 Barrett is a BEAST.

I'm sure you don't understand my comparison, as it is a personal preference.

The actual comparison was between the 50 BMG, 416 Barrett, and 338 Lapua.

I really don't have to explain anything to you because your post kind of came across as argumentative and childish to me. Best this, best that, odd choice...go take that somewhere else.

Honestly I still have not made up my mind between the 416 and 338.

 

[Dogtown]

Oh, so when you wrote "best" you meant "beast"?

 

[steve123]

Dogtown is Correct about his 416 B statements.

If Barrett had worked on a 416 bullet with a higher BC then things might have been different. I think there were brass issues and availability problems as well.

375CT has turned out to have the most success for ELR distances. High BC + FPS and lower recoil.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Again, I dont think you see what we are saying. As Dogtown has made quite clear. The 416 is not the best, nor the most beastly.

"Basically, ballistics. The 416 may not be as pin point accurate as the 338, but to my knowledge, the 416 shoots straighter and carries more energy downfield."
This statement is flawed, and as I mentioned in my first post, it shows a chasm between what you know, and what you need to know before stepping up into ELR.

 

[Roddd]

Post this over in the ELR section and see how many people will recommend the 416. You're asking for a comparison between apples and oranges.

 

[aika]

Dogtown is Correct about his 416 B statements.

If Barrett had worked on a 416 bullet with a higher BC then things might have been different. I think there were brass issues and availability problems as well.

375CT has turned out to have the most success for ELR distances. High BC + FPS and lower recoil.

I admit, the 375 Chey Tac is extremely impressive. The ULD 416 is as well.

I am not here to debate between 375/408 CT vs Barrett 416.

 

[aika]

Again, I dont think you see what we are saying. As Dogtown has made quite clear. The 416 is not the best, nor the most beastly.

"Basically, ballistics. The 416 may not be as pin point accurate as the 338, but to my knowledge, the 416 shoots straighter and carries more energy downfield."
This statement is flawed, and as I mentioned in my first post, it shows a chasm between what you know, and what you need to know before stepping up into ELR.

Chasm?

OK. Step up into ELR? As I made it quite clear, I am a civilian, and am no way wanting to make kill shots at 1.5 miles.

If you go back and re-read my posts, you will see that I want something special for me, which may not be special for you. What I like in rifle components may seem odd to you, but most likely, if I saw your set up, it would seem odd to me.

May I know what you are shooting? You are welcome to PM me.

By the way, I'm basically done with this thread, and have already gave my thanks.

 

[Dogtown]

I smell Call of Duty all over this guy...

 

[coldboremiracle]

OK. Step up into ELR? As I made it quite clear, I am a civilian, and am no way wanting to make kill shots at 1.5 miles.

Yes, the 416 and 338 are more ELR, there are many better/cheaper/easier to get a hold of choices for anything less than ELRanges. Most people here are civilians, but that has no bearing on the ranges they shoot. So if you aren't talking about killing things beyond a mile, then you dont need a 416, and probably not a 338 either. (thats not to say you couldn't buy one just to hold and be special though)

 

[aika]

Yes, the 416 and 338 are more ELR, there are many better/cheaper/easier to get a hold of choices for anything less than ELRanges. Most people here are civilians, but that has no bearing on the ranges they shoot. So if you aren't talking about killing things beyond a mile, then you dont need a 416, and probably not a 338 either. (thats not to say you couldn't buy one just to hold and be special though)

Thank you.

I do not need another gun. Actually, I've hunted so much, I don't even shoot game anymore even though there are various reasons why I should (control population, game management, store meat). Lately I just go to take pictures even though my 7 mag is with me.

I have worked hard to be in the position I'm in, and I'm in a position where I can afford to treat myself. I do not drive fancy cars, have four wheelers, etc. I drive my nothing car here to there, and walk to and from when everyone else has fancy four wheelers, etc. Many of my friends do not have the luxury to have nice things, either, although they did not put in the time to improve themselves.

The gun is actually as much for them as it is for me. And shooting something like a 416 Barrett of 50 BMG is, not even a reality.

So all in all, you really have no idea my intents or purposes. I don't really care if X can shoot 1.5" vs Y can shoot 2" so X is the better gun and everything else is a joke.

I asked a simple question for people who have more experience than me. In all honesty, I have never even seen McMillans, Barretts, and the like.

So don't knock me.

As for Dogtown's sense of smell, there must have been two crossing paths. I really don't even want to get into politics and point of views. But the thread turned sour and it is what it is. I come for help and people insulted me in various ways.

Thank you Striker for all your help. The board is lucky to have you.

 

[aika]

If you have a really really long range to shoot at, the 416 could be interesting (as could a .408 if you are willing to put a lot of work into perfecting it)
The .338 LM is a great mid long range round and the ammo for it is pretty easy to find everywhere.

Thank you. My range is approximately thousands of acres.

 

[aika]

X2..! The .338 L.M. is my favorite. I don't own one, but R E A L L Y want one, I would seriously think long and hard before overlooking the .338 over anything if I had a choice, yes even over the 50 BMG. That's just my .02 cents though... The 50 is really high on the cool factor though... even if I had no concern for ammo or cost, I'd still personally go with the .338.

I like the way you think.

The 338 LM is really starting to shine for me. The 416 and 50 are just a little too overkill for me.

All things considered, I'm almost 100% I'll build the 338 LM.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I like the way you think.

The 338 LM is really starting to shine for me. The 416 and 50 are just a little too overkill for me.

All things considered, I'm almost 100% I'll build the 338 LM.

I think you will really enjoy the .338LM, it makes a very good start into the larger calibers & you can get pretty far out there with it.
I find that it is large enough to be very satisfying while shooting it, but not too big to where you get worn down quickly.

That being said, if you have thousands of acres to shoot on, one day you'll probably get the bug for something bigger and more exotic, however even then you'll probably still enjoy bringing your .338LM rifle along.

 

[rundm]

You might also check out the DTA HTI, you can switch out barrels on that one if you want and shoot the big boys you are talking about from 50 bmg, 416,375 and so on. Very accurate although if you aren't shooting past 600, they are probably a waste of time and ammo. If the 338 is more of your flavor, then you can go with the reg DTA and switch back and fourth from 338 on down. The AI also has the non folding stock option and you won't be able to beat the quality or ruggedness of the AI. Others may be as good but they won't be better. Kind of depends on how you like the thumb hole on the AI though. Not for everyone. Someone else mentioned earlier the Surgeon and that would also be an excellent choice. There are tons of diff ones out there and you will just have to make your mind up on which one has the features you like. Unfortunately, you most likely won't be able to put your hands on all the diff makes and models out there
DTA HTI Rifle Chassis - Firearms - Desert Tactical Arms

 

[aika]

I think you will really enjoy the .338LM, it makes a very good start into the larger calibers & you can get pretty far out there with it.
I find that it is large enough to be very satisfying while shooting it, but not too big to where you get worn down quickly.

That being said, if you have thousands of acres to shoot on, one day you'll probably get the bug for something bigger and more exotic, however even then you'll probably still enjoy bringing your .338LM rifle along.

I'm fortunate to have access to these ranches.

The Stillers Tactical action is currently only offered in 30, 300, 338 and 408. Surefire makes a can for the 338 Lapua.

Yes I'm kind of going all out on it. I can't see myself ever really upgrading. But who knows what the future may bring.

Cheers.