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PVA Osprey Barrel Works Carbon Barrel

30Hart

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 28, 2013
232
30
Layton, Utah
Took the plunge and ordered one of PVAs new osprey carbon barrels in 6.5mm for a lightweight 6.5 PRC. Josh was very helpful and I wound up ordering a 23 inch barrel in the competition contour as that's the only one they are currently doing...it tapers to .99 at 26 inches and should be right at 3lbs or a little under at 23 inches finished. Want the option of running a suppressor and my 300 Omega only adds 5.5 inches to the length. Good thing is the barrel can be cut down farther which was a main selling point for me and my gunsmith...the blanks come in 26 but can be cut down to 18 inches. The action is a Kelbly Nanook and the stock a McMillan carbon. BDL floorplate and Trigger Tech Diamond trigger...more to come...hopefully the barrel comes next week as they have them in stock and say a 4 day turnaround on blanks.
 
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You can order them in full blank mode or for a very small fee PVA will cut them to length, thread them and install the carbon barrel cap...I went w/ the latter.
 
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My osprey 22 cal blank was chambered in 22cr, shoots excellent at 18". I'm not a fan of chopping barrels that far short of original blank length due to runout concerns, but this one turned out great. Interested in trying a prefit from Josh.
 
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Received the blank in a timely manner. Looks good and the 23 inch blank weighs 3lbs 3oz in 6.5mm already threaded on the muzzle. should be close to 3lbs or 3lbs 1oz after skimming the back end, chambering and threading. I have everything for the build so just waiting on the smith now.
 
Barrel on the action, be done soon
 

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I just ordered a carbon fiber barrel from them as well.

Given that I’ve had them doing all my barrel work for the last few years, and that I’m running out of blanks for my inventory downstairs…

I ran into an interesting problem: it appears that the bartlein carbon fiber barrel I have, which is a tack driver I might add, suffers from some flex when I put a suppressor at the end of it. With a thunder beast ultra nine on there It doesn’t move a whole hell of a lot. However, if I put one of my steel cans on there, impact drops, literally 3 inches. So now it’s time to do some testing…. (this does not happen with the steel Bartlein MTU that I have on my Sako TRG22 using any of my suppressors and swapping them out)

i’m also interested in trying a 1:7 Twist to see if it stabilizes the 153.5 bullets.
 
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I ran into an interesting problem: it appears that the bartlein carbon fiber barrel I have, which is a tack driver I might add, suffers from some flex when I put a suppressor at the end of it. With a thunder beast ultra nine on there It doesn’t move a whole hell of a lot. However, if I put one of my steel cans on there, impact drops, literally 3 inches.
If it’s repeatable POI shift and doesn’t effect precision, what’s it matter?
 
Actually, my MTU steel barrel on the TRG doesn’t see a different shift between the TBAC U9, R30K, and Biscuit. All exactly the same…
 
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So, as a follow up to this....

Part of the POI shift issue I was seeing was related to the lack of stiffness of the chassis I was using.

In this case, it was an MDT ACC Elite. Basically, there is a dramatic difference in stiffness between the chassis with the control bridges installed and without.

I also compared the ACC Premier chassis and initially it didn't seem as bad, but when I re-evaluated it, it's BAD... really bad. Assuming there is a top plate for it, it would probably get dramatically better.

Since I did not catch this previously, I had assumed that the POI shift would be partially the suppressors... be it was the chassis.
 
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So, as a follow up to this....

Part of the POI shift issue I was seeing was related to the lack of stiffness of the chassis I was using.

In this case, it was an MDT ACC Elite. Basically, there is a dramatic difference in stiffness between the chassis with the control bridges installed and without.

I also compared the ACC Premier chassis and initially it didn't seem as bad, but when I re-evaluated it, it's BAD... really bad. Assuming there is a top plate for it, it would probably get dramatically better.

Since I did not catch this previously, I had assumed that the POI shift would be partially the suppressors... be it was the chassis.

I don't follow this at all.

How did you come to the conclusion it was the chassis and its lack of stiffness that is causing the POI shift with suppressor?

It seems like you are inferring that the forend of said chassis, and its relative lack of stiffness, is what's resulting in the POI issues. The forend should have relatively little to do with any POI shifts - unless your barrel is flexing enough to make contact with the forend (but that's not really a stiffness issue).

The forend should be free floated and isolated from the barrel, its stiffness (or lack thereof) should not be a determining factor for POI shifts.
 
I don't follow this at all.

How did you come to the conclusion it was the chassis and its lack of stiffness that is causing the POI shift with suppressor?

It seems like you are inferring that the forend of said chassis, and its relative lack of stiffness, is what's resulting in the POI issues. The forend should have relatively little to do with any POI shifts - unless your barrel is flexing enough to make contact with the forend (but that's not really a stiffness issue).

The forend should be free floated and isolated from the barrel, its stiffness (or lack thereof) should not be a determining factor for POI shifts.
Agreed, the acc elite without the control bridges is plenty stiff. I don't have poi shifts in a hnt26 or element 4.0 and those chassis flex WAY more than an elite.
 
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Agreed, the acc elite without the control bridges is plenty stiff. I don't have poi shifts in a hnt26 or element 4.0 and those chassis flex WAY more than an elite.

I saw this thread afterwards, and there's more context provided around the flex issues.

IMO, I think it's a shooter issue. The shooters must be loading way too much into the chassis', putting torque into the system. I haven't shot an ACC Elite chassis', but I've been around a few and they don't seem like noodles. I have to think that if you are introducing that much flex into the chassis, that you are doing something wrong...

Not a knock on the shooter(s). I'm constantly learning stuff myself, and have had to change up my technique over the years for different situations and gear/cartridges. I learn something new every day I shoot.
 
How have these PVA carbon fiber barrels been shooting for you guys?

As good as proof CF and the regular PVA steel barrels?

Have had excellent luck with each of those and debating a 25 creed osprey carbon for my next tikka barrel
 
How have these PVA carbon fiber barrels been shooting for you guys?

As good as proof CF and the regular PVA steel barrels?

Have had excellent luck with each of those and debating a 25 creed osprey carbon for my next tikka barrel

May be somewhat length dependent but they aren't going to be notably lighter than a 750" taperless contour steel barrel.
 
May be somewhat length dependent but they aren't going to be notably lighter than a 750" taperless contour steel barrel.

Sure and I see your point, could save some $ and get accuracy and the weight savings. But I think the carbon barrels are cool and fascinating.

Had great luck with multiple proof barrels now and I believe their claims of the resin aiding in heat dissipation.

Had the opposite luck with carbon six where it seemed like their resin retained heat. Very accurate but had bad pressure spikes Sample of one there, but that was my experience.

So, still Curious to see what everyone’s experience with the PVA osprey carbon barrels are…
 
I don't follow this at all.

How did you come to the conclusion it was the chassis and its lack of stiffness that is causing the POI shift with suppressor?

It seems like you are inferring that the forend of said chassis, and its relative lack of stiffness, is what's resulting in the POI issues. The forend should have relatively little to do with any POI shifts - unless your barrel is flexing enough to make contact with the forend (but that's not really a stiffness issue).

The forend should be free floated and isolated from the barrel, its stiffness (or lack thereof) should not be a determining factor for POI shifts.
I can understand why this reasoning exists in the industry but it's not true. The soft (not stiff) handguards cause POI shifts in several ways:

1) Bipod loads are transmitted through the handguard and a soft handguard will put different loads into the action and the rest of the way the rifle recoils. Inconsistent bipod loading will generate strange POI problems. The softer the handguard is, the worse these problems show themselves. IE, a shooter with average bipod load consistency will see larger problems with a soft handguard than a stiff handguard.

2) Certain chassis designs make this situation worse because of how the handguard attaches to the center section and the load is directed through critical areas. Two examples that I think are particularly attrocious is how the Ruger RPR and the Tikka Tac A1 do it. The RPR runs all the handguard and bipod loads specifically through the barrel nut and the receiver is pretty soft flexturally. This means that a bipod on a long lever arm (bipod legs and back to the receiver face is a pretty long diagonal to torque on) gives you really wild performance. Someone who can shoot an RPR really consistently in a lot of conditions and a lot of positions is doing a really good job with BRM. The Tikka runs the handguard to a mounting bung which is screwed to the face of the center section and the scope rail. The scope rail is held on with a few small screws and we're adding the torture of those screws from recoil impulse as well as bipod load now.

I've seen a guy swear up and down that we made him a bad RPR prefit. His BRM was attrocious. I sat down, dry fired it twice, then shot a 5 round group with his rifle and ammo at 600yd that could be covered with a playing card. Another friend of mine in WA state did the same thing to help a guy. That rifle may be inexpensive, but it's not a forgiving platform to shoot long range for a beginner. A lot of what makes it difficult to shoot consistently is how the loads from the bipod and handguard travel directly through the receiver.

So, still Curious to see what everyone’s experience with the PVA osprey carbon barrels are…
The performance in the industry is pretty darn good. Hells Canyon is using the Osprey as their primary core for their barrels now unless a customer specifically asks for something else, we've delivered almost 500 cores to them since the beginning of the year and they're doing great.

We also have HCA doing the wrapping work for us with a specific layup to our core contour. I know this is me tooting my own horn, but the results have been really solid. They've been wrapping for us now since about a year ago and the relationship has been excellent.

Plus your gunsmith can order a 6.5mm blank and not worry about the specific finish length like you have to do for Carbon 6 and Proof. You can cut these down without any issue.
 
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I can understand why this reasoning exists in the industry but it's not true. The soft (not stiff) handguards cause POI shifts in several ways:

1) Bipod loads are transmitted through the handguard and a soft handguard will put different loads into the action and the rest of the way the rifle recoils. Inconsistent bipod loading will generate strange POI problems. The softer the handguard is, the worse these problems show themselves. IE, a shooter with average bipod load consistency will see larger problems with a soft handguard than a stiff handguard.

2) Certain chassis designs make this situation worse because of how the handguard attaches to the center section and the load is directed through critical areas. Two examples that I think are particularly attrocious is how the Ruger RPR and the Tikka Tac A1 do it. The RPR runs all the handguard and bipod loads specifically through the barrel nut and the receiver is pretty soft flexturally. This means that a bipod on a long lever arm (bipod legs and back to the receiver face is a pretty long diagonal to torque on) gives you really wild performance. Someone who can shoot an RPR really consistently in a lot of conditions and a lot of positions is doing a really good job with BRM. The Tikka runs the handguard to a mounting bung which is screwed to the face of the center section and the scope rail. The scope rail is held on with a few small screws and we're adding the torture of those screws from recoil impulse as well as bipod load now.

I've seen a guy swear up and down that we made him a bad RPR prefit. His BRM was attrocious. I sat down, dry fired it twice, then shot a 5 round group with his rifle and ammo at 600yd that could be covered with a playing card. Another friend of mine in WA state did the same thing to help a guy. That rifle may be inexpensive, but it's not a forgiving platform to shoot long range for a beginner. A lot of what makes it difficult to shoot consistently is how the loads from the bipod and handguard travel directly through the receiver.


The performance in the industry is pretty darn good. Hells Canyon is using the Osprey as their primary core for their barrels now unless a customer specifically asks for something else, we've delivered almost 500 cores to them since the beginning of the year and they're doing great.

We also have HCA doing the wrapping work for us with a specific layup to our core contour. I know this is me tooting my own horn, but the results have been really solid. They've been wrapping for us now since about a year ago and the relationship has been excellent.

Plus your gunsmith can order a 6.5mm blank and not worry about the specific finish length like you have to do for Carbon 6 and Proof. You can cut these down without any issue.

Grateful for you chiming in on this. Do you have any further insight on the resin and heat dissipation vs insulation?

Maybe I’m using the wrong terminology, I’m not an engineer, but that’s the best way I can describe the differences between proof and carbon six.

Im in PA too and have loved all of the steel Prefits I’ve gotten from you. Would like to try out a carbon Prefit in 25 creed next barrel change for my tikka.
 
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Grateful for you chiming in on this. Do you have any further insight on the resin and heat dissipation vs insulation?

Maybe I’m using the wrong terminology, I’m not an engineer, but that’s the best way I can describe the differences between proof and carbon six.

Im in PA too and have loved all of the steel Prefits I’ve gotten from you. Would like to try out a carbon Prefit in 25 creed next barrel change for my tikka.
CFRP in generally is a very good insulator through the thickness of the laminate and the heat that's conducted well goes along the length of the fibers. In general, carbon barrels are like a thermos bottle. Compared to steel or aluminum sleeving a barrel like some rimfire barrels see, the carbon is all pretty much a wrapped insulator.

That being said, the different resins systems do conduct heat differently but none of them are on par with what a stainless monolithic barrel will be like. On that topic, pretty much ignore the heat dissipation ideas. Barrels shoot cold and hot. The problems that arise from temps with good barrels are largely contained within how the shooter manages the mirage off the barrel and/or suppressor. Heat management on a carbon barrel is a touchy topic because of the fact that stainless bleeds heat far better than any carbon laminate does and whatever marketing says, the emissivity and thermal conduction coefficients can't be argued when you drill into the physics at work.

I'm not going to discuss a competitors' tech as I think it's a quick way to get people's feelings hurt and to be labeled as the guy who is badmouthing a competitor.

Ours/HCA's are a tape and weave ply pack that has a lot of different orientation fibers in it and the simple bending stiffness tests show just how much that improves the flexural stiffness of the barrel as a finished product.

I think that we're making a superior product and I've done a lot of work on the layup configuration to increase overall stiffness of the product and get something that behaves a lot closer to a regular match barrel than the way most carbon wrapped blanks do. I tested to a 10 shot string not a 3 round group for the laminate and due to the tape layup approach we have less impact droop from adding suppressors for the same barrel length and contour as the competition does. Is that a good thing? There are arguments for both sides of that when it comes to loading forgiveness, but in general my data says that we can get a barrel to shoot extremely well and to be tolerant of different ammo options and applications in the field.
 
proof and carbon six
I don't know enough to really give you a full answer, but both use a 45 degree wrap
[Proof’s] carbon fiber barrels have seven different layers of carbon fiber composite materials” that are “wound at wrap angles that vary from ±25° to ±85°,” including its “outermost layer with a ±45° wrap angle....” CarbonSix’s helically wound carbon fiber barrels, in contrast, have a single, monolithically wrapped outer layer that is wrapped at a constant angle of ±45°.” Notwithstanding the differences in the way the parties structurally-engineer their respective carbon fiber composite materials around the barrel blank, the outer appearance of their barrels look quite similar...
There is more info here, including re: resin

edit
I don't remember the procedural details, but the two disputed over CF barrels & McGowan/C6 substantially prevailed. Messier than I remembered, procedural history stated here
 
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@bohem

I have a general question on CFW barrels... do manufacturers have to use a more flexible monofilament to wrap at 25 degrees versus, say 45 or 85 degrees?
 
@bohem

I have a general question on CFW barrels... do manufacturers have to use a more flexible monofilament to wrap at 25 degrees versus, say 45 or 85 degrees?
Not that I'm aware of. The filaments are all the same as they're wrapped onto the barrels in the manner that Proof and Carbon6 do it. The tape and weave ply packs used by a few others, including us, are pre-preg and have different modulii ply by ply.
 
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