I just ordered a Vortex Viper Gen ii 5x25x50 MOAR for my Tikka Tac A1. I am new to precision shooting but am planning on getting into PRS matches after much practice. I am looking for scope mount recommendations as I am a little confused on if I need a mount with built in moa height. I have heard you need 30 moa to get the best set up for targets over 800 yards but that anything with moa will make zeroing at 100 yards difficult. My range tops at 300 so lots of practice between 100-300 but my goal is to build accuracy out to 800 this year and 1000 next. Any recommendations?
Rifle Scopes Scope mount recommendations - Vortex Viper on Tikka Tac A1 in 6.5 Creedmore.
- Thread starter DunkinsDad
- Start date
I'm pretty sure your Tikka already has a 20 MOA rail installed and is plenty sufficient to get you out to 1000 and beyond. I'd use Vortex or Seekins rings. They are both made by Seekins.
The Tikka has a 0 Moa rail. https://www.tikka.fi/rifles/tikka-t3x/t3x-tac-a1
Just upgraded my Savage 10 optics, rail, and rings....Installed a 20 MOA EGW rail and Vortex Precision Matched Rings.
http://www.egwguns.com/scope-mounts...catinny-rail-scope-mount-20-moa-ambidextrous/
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-precision-matched-rings-30mm-riflescope-87
Thumbs up on this stuff.
VooDoo
http://www.egwguns.com/scope-mounts...catinny-rail-scope-mount-20-moa-ambidextrous/
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-precision-matched-rings-30mm-riflescope-87
Thumbs up on this stuff.
VooDoo
I stand corrected.
That one has a kind of AR15 type top rail so any kind of one piece top mount will work. Guys on this site use stuff like Spuhr or Nightforce but if you don't want to spend that sort of money then something the Warne one piece would work, I think it's called their "MSR Mount".
Spuhr, Badger, or Seekins (in no particular order) would be my choices.
@DRAM40A1 is correct and have a 0 MOA base on top of the Tac A1. Unfortunately that means that if your scope base, rings and optics are all machined and manufactured well, you'll get somewhere around 35 MOA (10.4 mil) out of your scope. Depending on your caliber, bullet and speed, that'll get you to an effective range of 800-1100 or so (sorry for a lot of generalization). For most matches, that will leave you shooting 75%+ of the targets being able to dial your elevation, with the rest, you'll have to fully dial and hold over.
The easiest way to get more travel out of your scope is to buy canted scope rings or a canted unimount, that have 10/20/30+ MOA built in to them. I wish that I could offer you a product that we made to solve this, but unfortunately we don't have such things available yet.
My recommendation would be to buy a standard set of scope rings like our MDT Elite Scope Rings (or any of the other great options listed here), and learn how to use the hold over subtensions in your reticle for the odd shot's you have to take past maximum travel. If you buy a 20 MOA Spuhr or something else that has built in cant, you may update your rifle in the future, have a 20 MOA base + 20 MOA rings and not be able to use scopes like your PST!
Just my thoughts.
- Josh
The easiest way to get more travel out of your scope is to buy canted scope rings or a canted unimount, that have 10/20/30+ MOA built in to them. I wish that I could offer you a product that we made to solve this, but unfortunately we don't have such things available yet.
My recommendation would be to buy a standard set of scope rings like our MDT Elite Scope Rings (or any of the other great options listed here), and learn how to use the hold over subtensions in your reticle for the odd shot's you have to take past maximum travel. If you buy a 20 MOA Spuhr or something else that has built in cant, you may update your rifle in the future, have a 20 MOA base + 20 MOA rings and not be able to use scopes like your PST!
Just my thoughts.
- Josh
I had a "Tik-TAC" for 18 months. Great rifle. I also have the Vortex Viper PST 5-25x50 mounted on another Tikka. So here's the deal re mounting the 5-25x50 from my perspective.
Per Vortex spec sheet, the 5-25x50 has 70MOA maximum elevation - that means "lock to lock" as I understand it. Out of the box, with reticle centered, you should get 35 MOA "up" and 35 MOA "down."
The TAC A1 does indeed have a flat (0 degrees) rail. So, with standard rings and 35MOA max elevation available above center, you're barely going to make 1000 yards with most factory ammunition, and the reticle will be pretty much maxed out in its travel. This can introduce some distortion-related issues and potentially strain internals if left maxed out for long periods.
So, with this scope, it's best to find a 20 or 25 degree set of rings or rail, Much has been written here concerning the difficulty of removing the TAC A1 rail, so if you go that route, it's probably best to research it.
FWIW, I used a Vortex Razor Gen-1 5-20x50 on mine. With its 35mm tube, that scope has 125MOA / 62MOA "up" / 62 MOA "down" elevation, and reached 1000 yards with ease on the flat rail.
Per Vortex spec sheet, the 5-25x50 has 70MOA maximum elevation - that means "lock to lock" as I understand it. Out of the box, with reticle centered, you should get 35 MOA "up" and 35 MOA "down."
The TAC A1 does indeed have a flat (0 degrees) rail. So, with standard rings and 35MOA max elevation available above center, you're barely going to make 1000 yards with most factory ammunition, and the reticle will be pretty much maxed out in its travel. This can introduce some distortion-related issues and potentially strain internals if left maxed out for long periods.
So, with this scope, it's best to find a 20 or 25 degree set of rings or rail, Much has been written here concerning the difficulty of removing the TAC A1 rail, so if you go that route, it's probably best to research it.
FWIW, I used a Vortex Razor Gen-1 5-20x50 on mine. With its 35mm tube, that scope has 125MOA / 62MOA "up" / 62 MOA "down" elevation, and reached 1000 yards with ease on the flat rail.
Not trying to hijack this thread but I'm in the same boat as Dunkinsdad. Soon I'll have a T3 Tac 1 and also am looking into scopes and mounts. Now I'm a little confused. You don't think its worth buying a 20 moa mount? I thought it would be better to have the offset mount to start out so there is one less thing to try and figure out while shooting, just count clicks and not worry about hold over. Or am I missing part of a bigger picture? If I'm missing something please tell me now so I only have to learn things once.
So I am now wondering should a get quick release mounts in both 0 and 20 moa? For most shooting use the 0 moa mount and if going over 600 switch out to the 20. Is that a workable solution? Maybe American Defense quick release mounts. Thoughts?
I’ve read several other threads where people are using 1.5” mounts. Instead of spending money on two American Defence mounts, I would buy one Badger Ordnance 20 MOA and be done with it.
I went with the 1.5 rings from Burris (their beefier version) and their 20moa insterts on my tac. All leveled out, holds the scope just fine. So far i have only shot to 200 and all is good. I set up a plumb line and tracked the scope up and down the line from distance , s’all good.
In the next month or two i plan to test it out to 1k. i’ll report back if something is not right .
In the next month or two i plan to test it out to 1k. i’ll report back if something is not right .
This would be a good place to start Cal writes some great stuff.
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2018/12/25/best-scope-mount/
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2018/12/25/best-scope-mount/
Ok I am going to be the one that pisses on your parade a little. If you plan on using this rifle/scope combo for PRS matches I would probably have gone for the mil based reticle only because that is what most of the other guys are going to be shooting in PRS.
And I'll be the one that steps in and says, if you're comfortable with MOA, run it and be happy. As Palmetto says, mils are what most people are using and it's helpful, especially for new shooters, to have a common reference with experienced shooters (e.g., I agree with him in the situation where a new shooter has no preference before making a choice). Personally, I've been doing MOA for decades and don't have to think much about conversions.
And this completes (at least for me) the 8,423,689th iteration of the mils vs. MOA discussion! ;-)
I have two rifles in MDT chassis and have gotten great support from MDT, but this is a rare event where I disagree fundamentally with @MDT_Josh. If a newcomer to the discipline is spending around $3000 for a good rifle and scope, is it not worth just a bit more money to enable the optic to dial to whatever range the cartridge is capable of accurately reaching? Sure, it's quite feasible to use holdover to reach the longer ranges, but in my mind accepting a limitation in this way is like buying a Corvette and running Pep Boys tires on it, not to mention incorporating one more thing the new competition shooter has to remember after the BEEP. I've been competing in one shooting sport or another for decades and my remaining brain cells would squirt out my ears at the buzzer if my ear protection didn't hold them in.
@DownhillFromHere and @blacklab1 sorry if I gave you the wrong impression, but I was offering advice based on your current setup. Whilst I do agree that replacing the factory base for a 20 MOA option is a great idea, someone did mention that removing the factory base and replacing it was a PITA. Granted, I have absolutely zero experience with the Tikka Tac A1, so I could be completely off base with that statement.
The other concern with replacing the factory base, and this is something we run into with our ESS forends, is that the base is designed to match up to their forend. By replacing the factory, 0 MOA base, you'll create a weird step between the forend and base which will look weird and can also cause functional issues.
So yes, replacing the base is your best option, but it may not be feasible
The other concern with replacing the factory base, and this is something we run into with our ESS forends, is that the base is designed to match up to their forend. By replacing the factory, 0 MOA base, you'll create a weird step between the forend and base which will look weird and can also cause functional issues.
So yes, replacing the base is your best option, but it may not be feasible
biggest question... how far are you shooting? Me being in Texas... 1000 yards is a stretch. I grudgingly accepted the 0 MOA (I shoot MILS BTW) and will make due if distance presents itself.@DownhillFromHere and @blacklab1 sorry if I gave you the wrong impression, but I was offering advice based on your current setup. Whilst I do agree that replacing the factory base for a 20 MOA option is a great idea, someone did mention that removing the factory base and replacing it was a PITA. Granted, I have absolutely zero experience with the Tikka Tac A1, so I could be completely off base with that statement.
The other concern with replacing the factory base, and this is something we run into with our ESS forends, is that the base is designed to match up to their forend. By replacing the factory, 0 MOA base, you'll create a weird step between the forend and base which will look weird and can also cause functional issues.
So yes, replacing the base is your best option, but it may not be feasible
Last edited:
^^^ This too. If all you'll ever shoot is 800 yards or less, the whole canted rail/rings thing is a non-issue. At least 90% of my shooting is 500 meters or less - but when I do shoot 900-1000 yards, a lot of times it's in competition and I want every advantage I can reasonably find. I can screw up in all sorts of silly ways regardless.... (Hint: ALWAYS turn your reticles back to zero after you shoot a "stage" whether competition or practice... the other day, I was confirming zero at 100 yards and was baffled when the first shot missed the target completely, until I saw that I had left my elevation set for 540 yards after my last outingbiggest question... how far are you shooting? Me being in Texas... 1000 yards is a stretch. I grudgingly accepted the 0 MOA (I shoot MILS BTW) and will make due it distance presents itself.
).piggy backing on this thread...I just ordered a Tik Tac A1 (lefty!) myself but do not have it in hand.
When looking at mounts, is it safe to assume that an "AR Style" mount is appropriate? Is the stock pretty much in-line with the receiver, i.e. no drop on the comb? Looks that way to me in pictures.
The scope is coming from another rifle and is currently mounted in 0MOA Seekins rings. I want to go with 20MOA and am deciding between rings or a 1-piece mount.
When looking at mounts, is it safe to assume that an "AR Style" mount is appropriate? Is the stock pretty much in-line with the receiver, i.e. no drop on the comb? Looks that way to me in pictures.
The scope is coming from another rifle and is currently mounted in 0MOA Seekins rings. I want to go with 20MOA and am deciding between rings or a 1-piece mount.
I went through this question when I got my Tik-TAC. I ordered a one-piece mount when I ordered the scope. It took about 60 seconds for a well-respected gunsmith to talk me right out of it. He pointed out that the Gen-1 Vortex Razor is a heavy beast, showed how close to the turret housing the one-piece's rings would be, and the relatively thin connection between the one-piece mount's rings and the rifle's rail. Then he showed me his own rifle and how the paired rings were thicker in all dimensions, closer to the rail, and further apart on the scope tube - providing a much more stable mount between scope and rail.
He sold me. Your decision may vary. If you go with your existing rings, they'll need to be tall enough to keep the objective bell above the flat rail. For my Gen-1 Vortex Razor with a 50mm bell, the 1.46" rings barely gave me room for flip-up caps. No way shorter rings would work.
Perfect! Thanks.
My current setup (XTRII / Seekins rings) work on an AR10 setup, so I should be good to go.
Read what Cal says about scope mounts. It really simplifies things. Then look at one of the other sections on his blog "What the pros use" for scope mounts. You will see that a majority of the top shooters use one piece mounts.
@DownhillFromHere and @blacklab1 sorry if I gave you the wrong impression, but I was offering advice based on your current setup. Whilst I do agree that replacing the factory base for a 20 MOA option is a great idea, someone did mention that removing the factory base and replacing it was a PITA. Granted, I have absolutely zero experience with the Tikka Tac A1, so I could be completely off base with that statement.
The other concern with replacing the factory base, and this is something we run into with our ESS forends, is that the base is designed to match up to their forend. By replacing the factory, 0 MOA base, you'll create a weird step between the forend and base which will look weird and can also cause functional issues.
So yes, replacing the base is your best option, but it may not be feasible
Yes....removing the factory 0 MOA rail is a PITA but very possible.
Yes....there will be a "step" between the 20 MOA and the forend rail.
I personally have removed the factory rail and installed a custom made 20 MOA rail with positive results.
The pic shows the "step" between the rail and forend.
Attachments
I installed the EGW 20 MOA rail on mine. Works great. Function overides the offset. that doesnt even bother me at all. Still looks great.
