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Gunsmithing Shop Advice - Floor and weight distribution

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GasLight

That Guy
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Minuteman
May 2, 2008
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Bozeman, MT
www.thevaultgunandloan.com
Ok, I have a small building roughly 10x20. It has a concrete floor, so I was thinking I would make this into a small machine shop. Well after some discussion, it came to my attention that the floor may not be able to support the weight of a lathe and or mill. So, I took a look this weekend, and it looks like the slab doesn't have any footings, and it is only around 4" thick. Now, I don't know if I should attempt to put a lathe in there as is, or if I can maybe strengthen the floor at all, or maybe spread the weight of the machines somehow? What do you guys think?

Thanks,

Dave
 
Re: Shop Advice - Floor and weight distribution

It would depend on the type of foundation the slab is on and if the concrete is reinforced with re bar.

How big of machines are you getting?
 
Re: Shop Advice - Floor and weight distribution

if you get the size of lathe you were looking at in the other thread, you will be fine on a 4" slab. plenty of people have bridgeports and 13x40 lathes in their garages without issue.
 
Re: Shop Advice - Floor and weight distribution

actually looked at an even smaller lathe, don't know for sure when I will pull the trigger, but looking like a lathe between 1500 and 2500 pounds... haven't looked at the weight of a mill, but would get a somewhat standard bridgeport.

How thick is a garage floor typically? I think the slab is just on a small layer of gravel, then the ground...

 
Re: Shop Advice - Floor and weight distribution

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DebosDave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How thick is a garage floor typically?</div></div>

In my area, 4" is used for passenger vehicles, 5" for RV and commercial vehicles.
 
Re: Shop Advice - Floor and weight distribution

I don't think my shop floor is thicker than that. It was built in the mid 1960s. It has held several different machines. I'm going to guess at a weight of 15,000 pounds with multiple (at least 8) leveling pads. (Waffle pads on top of 1/2" thich by 6" X 6" minimum, steel plate.) If you use at least 1/2" thick bases and at least 1" waffle pads for the leveling feet, you should not have a problem.

However, the slab where we park our RV I can tell you about. It has rebar running the length and width aproximately 24" on center both ways, supported 2" off the ground. It's 5,000 psi mix placed 6 inches deep on top of 6" gravel base and seperated with 6 mil sheet plastic. Our camper was 7,000 pounds on tandem axles and the RV is a bit heavier than that. It has supported a loaded 12 yard concrete mixer truck on a couple of occassions without any visible damage.

I was present when the new (1998) fire station was being built. I know the floor under the big trucks is 10". But that's a lot of weight. By camparision our new (1994) ambulance station bay floors were only 6" with reinforcing steel rod.
 
Re: Shop Advice - Floor and weight distribution

You will be fine with your floor. Im only 4" with good re bar and have a 16,000 lb machine on it with 6 leveling pads. When i build my own shop it will be 3' thick isolated pads, but you wont ever need to worry about it.

I know of a couple shops with DIRT floors and their lathes/mills run just dandy
smile.gif
 
Re: Shop Advice - Floor and weight distribution

take a piece of link chain and drag it around on the floor while listening. this will let you know if there are any thin, or hollow spots in the concrete. my 2 post auto lift weighs about 2400# and is rated to lift 9000# only requires a 4" floor. im thinking you should be fine.
 
Re: Shop Advice - Floor and weight distribution

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: offroadr1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">take a piece of link chain and drag it around on the floor while listening. this will let you know if there are any thin, or hollow spots in the concrete. my 2 post auto lift weighs about 2400# and is rated to lift 9000# only requires a 4" floor. im thinking you should be fine. </div></div>

it does not require any footing for each post? if so, what kind of anchors hold it down and how big of footprint does each post have?
 
Re: Shop Advice - Floor and weight distribution

Flippin eck,
when i built my new workshop i had regulations and architect plans to adhere too.

Foundations made of waterproof heavy duty concrete are 1m deep x 30cm wide. that goes in a ring all way around the building, there is also a foundation under the wall that separates the machine shop from the coating-spraying room, its 80cm deep and 25cm wide. The foundations have plenty of rebar ( and a bunch of take off barrels !!) for strengthening.
there is 15cm of packed granulate drainage medium in between those foundations ontop of the earth, and there are 3 drainage pipes running through.
then a layer of plastic moisture barrier, then 30cm or re-enforced waterproof heavy duty concrete. then 4cm of styrofoam insilation, with hard foam under where the machines stand, more moisture foil and then another 15cm of re-enforced lighter duty concrete or scree on top of that and then another 2cm of self leveling flooring mix on top of that..

I guess i built a Führer Bunker !! sure as hell no one gonna tunnel in or out.
Pete
 
Re: Shop Advice - Floor and weight distribution

Thanks for all the input! I really appreciate it. I am going to go for it, and I suppose if there ever was a problem, a new floor wouldn't the the most expensive part of the project!

Thanks again!

Dave
 
Re: Shop Advice - Floor and weight distribution

if we install a new machine on a thinner slab (4-6") then we generaly drive a bunch of studs into the existing floor and put a layer of "highway mesh" on them , box it in with a small 4" form then we pour a slb on top of the existing one , it'll be fixed to the old slab and much more rigid not allowing the machines to flex at all.

a 4" slab with fiber or wire in it will be fine so long as the gound isin't soft , down here in New Orleans the ground is about as solid as a sponge
 
Re: Shop Advice - Floor and weight distribution

In terms of pouring footings, I had this done at a shop once. We were working a contract machine job for NASA, and the shop had this weird slab that was about 1.5" thin in some spots.

We didn't realize this until the new Swiss lathe was being installed specifically for this job. When the installer was drilling, he ended up drilling into sand way earlier than expected.

So we had some general contractors come in to jackhammer out a section of the slab (in the shape of a big bowtie) and pour in 36" of 3,000 psi concrete, per lathe manufacturer's instructions.

When we leveled the lathe, we noticed it stayed level as other heavy jobs moved around the shop, where the other lathes (mounted to the normal thin slab) would shift enough to be noticeable on the precision bubble level.
 
Re: Shop Advice - Floor and weight distribution

I am going to leave it as is and see how it works. This isn't my end all shop to start with, so when I build a shop, I will do something much sturdier, and will likely buy a better lathe at that time. I am just looking to get something 'decent' and learn what I am doing a little bit. Then will get serious.

Thanks for all the input I really appreciate it!

Dave
 
Re: Shop Advice - Floor and weight distribution

you'll be fine. just be sure to level your machine(s) with a precision machinist level and check it now and then.

if you were in a large production machine shop or building parts for nasa, dedicated footings/slabs for each machine my be necessary to minimize vibrations and deflection that could happen with a monolithic slap. for a home shop where you may have a lathe and knee mill, and most likely not running at the same time, don't worry about it.

so what lathe did you decide on?
 
Re: Shop Advice - Floor and weight distribution

well, I kinda sent an offer on the Kent, am waiting to hear back on it. I am still looking though, and I am sure I will be able to find something. There is always a deal somewhere.

Did you use your Kent to build your .284?

Dave

 
Re: Shop Advice - Floor and weight distribution

Dave there are literaly hundreds of lathes on ebay.
I used a Leinen, followed by a Colchester Bantam 2000 before moving on to Weiler, i'm on my 3rd Weiler now having gradualy bought and sold lathes, each time upgrading and keeping the best accessories. The latest one is a Weiler Condor VS2 that has been well looked after, and upgraded and well serviced, its like new exept for the paint. With hindsight i might have been better going straight for the more expensive machine, but i wouldn't have gathered all the gadgets along the way,
you are looking at hobby smithing right? take a look at a Harrison 300, Colchester / Clausing M250, Colchester student or master, Weiler Matador, Practicant or Condor. all plenty adequate gunsmithing lathes.
IMHO you are better of buying a used know name, western manufactured lathe than a made in the east some where.. important is spindle bore diameter, you need 32mm at least, you can get away with 20" between centres, but if you want to profile barrels you better have 30"; and low speeds are more important than high speeds, mine goes down to 12rpm and i use that much more than i use the 2800rpm top speed.

I traveled all over germany looking at and picking up lathes, don't buy one that you cant see and hear running. and dont be afraid to remove covers, plates and parts to check inside, be wary of new paint jobs and do your homework on supply of parts.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/ is a mine of usefull info..

have a look here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Harrison-Lathe-Model...p3286.m20.l1116[/url]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Harrison-Lathe-Model...p3286.m20.l1116


http://stores.ebay.com/Norman-Machine-To...9QQftidZ2QQtZkm

http://cgi.ebay.com/Weiler-Matador-Lathe...id=p4634.c0.m14

http://cgi.ebay.com/Emco-Maier-Maximat-V...id=p4634.c0.m14



Pete
 
Re: Shop Advice - Floor and weight distribution

Well I guess Im set if I even want to get the machines I have been eyeballing. Here in the San Francisco bay area we are a tad worried about earthquakes and build accordingly. My garage floor is a floating/tensioned slab with steel cable and is poured a full 9" thick. I dont know the tension on the cables but you must be very careful if you cut the slab, nicking a cable could lead to a failure with fatal results when the cable blows out the side of the slab.
 
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