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So you Vape or know someone who does? Stop now, its poison.

Maggot

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood"
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Jul 27, 2007
    25,898
    29,185
    Virginia
    It's poison and the ones selling it know.

    The Lessons of Popcorn Lung: Inhale With Caution​

    Amy-Sarah Marshall8/23/2019General Health
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    popcorn lung disease
    Popcorn lung sounds deceptively silly. The condition actually has no cure.
    August 23, 2019 update: An alert issued by the Blue Ridge Poison Center and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on August 21 reveals that vaping has started to have real consequences. The report notes that vaping has recently resulted in 100 cases of people going to the emergency room with serious lung illness and life-threatening symptoms. Clearly, as vaping becomes more popular, these kinds of concerns will only increase. The story of popcorn lung illustrates why.

    TOO MUCH OF A GOOD THING​

    Can we ever have too much of a good thing? For hundreds of years, authors like Cervantes, Shakespeare and Twain have all weighed the question. Philosophically, we may continue to wonder. But when it comes to popcorn lung, I’ve come to conclude that the answer is a definite YES.

    THE POPCORN LUNG STORY​

    It sounds like an urban myth. But this story actually happened. “This guy loved popcorn,” says pulmonologist Catherine Bonham, MD. “He made microwave popcorn every day, about two times a day, and when he opened the bag he would inhale the popcorn smell because he loved it so much.” The diagnosis for his lung issues couldn’t have been more fitting: This popcorn-lover had contracted popcorn lung.
    This patient’s fate doesn’t mean you should never eat microwave popcorn again. Lung doctors Bonham and Tessy Paul, MD, sat down with me to explain the true lesson of the popcorn lung story. There is something to be said for moderation in all things — especially when we’re talking about our lungs and what we breathe into them on a daily basis.

    POPCORN LUNG POPPING UP​

    But let’s back up. In 2000, in Jasper, Missouri, a local doctor had eight patients with breathing problems. Biopsies showed that all of these workers had bronchiolitis obliterans, a very specific and fairly rare lung disease.
    The doctor noticed a pattern. Every single one of these patients worked at a local factory that produced microwave popcorn flavoring. And each of them were exposed on a daily basis to the flavoring mixture itself. All eight had worked there for many years.
    These clues — and the fact that four of those initial eight patients required lung transplants — led to an investigation by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH). Bonham says they found that “half of the workers had some kind of lung problems, like asthma or bronchitis.”
    But none of the workers had linked their conditions to their work environment. “Most of the time, when we think of occupational illness, we think of a one-time, really high-level exposure to something inhaled,” Bonham explains. “But in this case, the workers were inhaling this butter flavor over a longer period of time. So they weren’t associating their symptoms with being exposed at work.”
    As Paul puts it, “They didn’t go home and have symptoms right away. It was just exposure over time.”

    A TOXIC FLAVOR​

    The investigators of NIOSH “sampled the environment and what the workers were breathing and found 100 volatile compounds.” Predominant among them: diacetyl, a buttery-tasting chemical.
    The findings fingered diacetyl as the culprit at the root of the problem. When heated and inhaled over long periods of time, airway damage results. Inflammation in the lungs leads to a buildup of scar tissue that blocks and destroys airways. This damage, bronchiolitis obliterans, became known as popcorn lung.
    Further investigations throughout the 2000s revealed that diacetyl occurs both in artificial and natural processes. Coffee roasting, for instance, produces the compound, whether or not the artificial flavor has been added. You can also find diacetyl in dairy products, candy, wine, beer and chocolate.
    But the story doesn’t just tell us to remove diacetyl to make everything better. Paul explains that microwave popcorn manufacturers tried “substituting with another compound. But they found out the substitutions were just as bad.”
    Bonham nods: “The take-home point is that exposing yourself to large amounts of chemicals, artificial or natural, doesn’t matter. Your lungs don’t know what to do with these aerosols when you’re breathing them every day, all day.”

    THE EFFECTS OF POPCORN LUNG​

    The effects of popcorn lung are irreversible.
    Bronchiolitis obliterans, a type of interstitial lung disease, literally “obliterates” or destroys the small airways in your lungs. Scar tissue builds up and blocks the air, making it harder for you to breathe. While some medications can slow this scar build-up, no treatment can remove the scars.
    “It’s amazing to look at some of these biopsies under the microscope,” Paul notes. “With popcorn lung, we can see airways narrowed down or completely obliterated. It’s amazing how much damage you can cause.”

    THE DANGERS OF E-CIGS AND INHALING OVER TIME​

    Accumulation over time: This, not diacetyl, is the real cause of diseases like this. Not only does the damage occur to the lungs, but the slow progression undermines health providers’ ability to diagnose and warn people about the damage.
    Bonham points to the rise of vaping as a prime example of this difficulty. “Lung doctors are so concerned about flavored e-cigarettes because they have these compounds, and we don’t know what they do. But we know from our experience with popcorn lung that some damage is being done. It might be damage that’s more low-level now, but as there’s an accumulation over time, it could be causing a serious health problem.”
    Bonham notes that the story of popcorn lung should caution users of new products like e-cigarettes against trusting too much in safety claims made by companies. She points out that, like with the tobacco industry, manufacturers have no economic incentive to make the health risks of their products public.
    With popcorn lung: “The companies had done their own testing on these chemicals, and they knew before 1993 that it killed the rats they exposed to it in the lab. But since it was private research, it wasn’t made public. They also had had leadership meetings talking about how to protect workers from flavoring compounds even before reports of popcorn lung came out. So, they knew it would come to be a problem or might be something they’d need to pay attention to, but there’s an economic incentive for companies not to make that kind of information public knowledge or let us know that this could be a problem.”*

    QUESTIONING THE MARKETING OF E-CIGARETTES & VAPING​

    “It’s really unfortunate, because a lot of these products are being marketed or tailored to really young people,” Paul says. “Teenagers, even middle school kids are using these products with bubble gum flavors or cinnamon flavors. These are not geared towards adults. Knowing that these kids at such a young age are being exposed is really disheartening. Who knows what we’ll be seeing ten years from now?”

    THE SYMPTOMS OF POPCORN LUNG​

    Your primary care provider should note symptoms like:
    • Short of breath
    • Crackles (“sounds like Velcro or Rice Crispies”) detected with a stethoscope
    • Cough that doesn’t go away
    • Oxygen levels that nosedive when walking
    Bonham agrees. “Some of these informational videos about flavoring and diacetyl and cigarettes characterize vaping as a fun hobby, with cartoon animations.” Her conclusion? E-cigarette marketing isn’t “targeted towards adults trying to quit tobacco. It’s trying to get a new generation smoking.”

    The Claims of Ingredient Safety​

    Bonham notes that some online sources suggest that “without diacetyl in e-cigarettes, they’re harmless.” This claim doesn’t reveal the other nature of the other ingredients in vapors and flavoring, however.
    For instance, Bonham points out that the chemical that creates the vapor in e-cigarettes and produces the white puff of smoke is polyethylene glycol— colonoscopy preparation solution.
    “Think about coating your lungs with colon prep,” she says. “I think intuitively that’s a terrible idea.”
    Bonham notes that some manufacturers have employed the ingredient-switching strategy in response to critique of polyethylene glycol, using propylene glycol as a substitute. “Some pro-vaping bloggers discuss that propylene is somehow safe to inhale. Another use of propylene glycol? Airplane de-icer.” And Bonham adds, like any other chemical additive, “Repeated exposures over time are likely to cause lasting lung disease in susceptible people.”

    PROBLEMS BREATHING?​

    Bronchiolitis obliterans is a type of lung condition called pulmonary fibrosis. Get tested for this lung disease right away.

    The Supposed Safe Levels​

    When it comes to inhaling compounds, Bonham says, we’ve learned that “what’s a safe level for one person might not be a safe level for another person. Some people are more susceptible than others are.”
    Exposing yourself to anything over time, she says, because studies haven’t found anything harmful in the substance, is “naïve. You’re being experimental — on yourself.”
     
    Oh well.
    The wife and I quit smoking and went to vaping in 2009.
    We settled on a red cherry flavor use for baking.
    (the actual flavor is dissolved in Ethanol)
    We use a 50/50 mixture of Propylene Glycol (not Polyethelene Glycol) and Vegetable Glycerin.
    Both are actually water soluable (with the normal moisture in the lungs).
    The Nicotine we use is either in PG or VG and the quantity of real Nicotine in the final mix is less than 1%.
    (6 to 10 mg/ml concentration)
    For some reason we both feel better than when we smoked.
    While Nicotine can be mind altering for young minds,
    an unspoken advantage for old folks is in delaying onset of old fart brain issues.

    The popcorn lung thing is old news. Those that must have all the flavors might run into poisons.
    Counterfeit pods and really high Nic levels are popular for 'Stealth Vapers'.
    Either that or those that just want to blow clouds.


    Somehow I don't see the gay link to vaping.
    Someone has gay on the mind ??
     
    Last edited:
    Oh well.
    The wife and I quit smoking and went to vaping in 2009.
    We settled on a red cherry flavor use for baking.
    (the actual flavor is dissolved in Ethanol)
    We use a 50/50 mixture of Propylene Glychol (not Polyethelene Glycol) and Vegetable Glycerin.
    Both are actually water soluable (with the normal moisture in the lungs).
    The Nicotine we use is either in PG or VG and the quantity of real Nicotine in the final mix is less than 1%.
    (6 to 10 mg/ml concentration)
    For some reason we both feel better than when we smoked.
    While Nicotine can be mind altering for young minds,
    an unspoken advantage for old folks is in delaying onset of old brain issues.

    Somehow I don't see the gay link to vaping.
    Someone has gay on the mind ??
    Apparently they do.

    My post hadd nothing to do with gay, only a warning. I quit cigarettes circa 82. Your lungs are made for air, not smoke of any kind. Be smart brother, it may be 'better' than cigs, but that doesnt make it good.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Doctorwho1138
    I "vape", but as described long ago, no lung hits. I am a cigar guy and in ecigs that translates to 50mg/ml salt nic liquid at medium wattage for a couple of nice mint or coffee flavored puffs and a mild nic buzz.

    Lungs are designed for clean AIR only. Remember back in school fire drills why they emphasized not breathing in smoke so much during the lessons? Exactly. Why these dumbfucks take huge cloud hits just to show off is beyond me... Like, all right we get it, you vape, and by the looks of it, you probably cannot start a biathlon either without getting winded 10 seconds in...
     
    • Haha
    Reactions: PryorExteriors
    It's not smoke.
    Propylene Glycol is actually a carrier for lung medications.
    Works to sooth lung irritations and as an expectorant.
    Adding Vegetable Glycerin to the mix reduces upper respiratory irritation some experience with PG.

    It was the other poster that has this gay fixation.

    Funny that vaping came up this morning.
    I just mixed up a liter (500ml for each on us) last night :)
    one-liter-homemade-e-juice.jpg

    40% VG, one is 7mg/ml the other is 10mg/ml.
     
    Last edited:
    The ingredient causing popcorn lung was removed from any decent juice. When I switched from cigarettes to vaping I had normal lung function in a matter of weeks. Within 2 months I could run 3 miles in 24 min without being to put of breath. I will say vaping was way harder to quit then cigarettes. Been off almost a year and still crave it from time to time.
     
    Internal combustion engines stuck in traffic, trucks rolling coal, smoke from firearms, coal fired electricity, the sweet smell of Chinese fireworks on the 4th of July, yellow snow.
    The smell of Freedom in Murica.
     
    Internal combustion engines stuck in traffic, trucks rolling coal, smoke from firearms, coal fired electricity, the sweet smell of Chinese fireworks on the 4th of July, yellow snow.
    The smell of Freedom in Murica.

    You forgot Napalm in the morning… and the sweet BBQ pork smell of enemies Frying in their own body fat…

    Just ‘sayin!

    Sirhr
     
    Anyone thinking the flavors are for kids hasn't checked on the 21-50 year old population lately. All the 35 year old idiots at the bar are using some fruity weird concoction every night of the week.


    I still enjoy the tobacco itself. Seems I'm in the minority, as everyone I've run into has flavored crap.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Yasherka
    While only 5 to 10 percent of the final mixture the flavor (in a carrier) contains what?
    What chemicals make e-juice taste like Unicorn Farts?
    Or Milk Chocolate Mint?

    Simple flavors for me and about $100/liter finished, about 5 months worth.
    I keep at least a liter of 100mg/ml Nic juice in the freezer.
    At least a gallon of PG and VG,
    and a quart of flavor.
     
    Last edited:
    E-juice reloading, For Dummies :)
    Written back in 2011.
    Rocket's E-Juice Mixing Tutorial


    PREFACE (the beginning of many words to come)

    Electronic cigarettes using a liquid ‘vaping’ medium (e-juice) containing Nicotine, Propylene Glycol, Glycerin, and various flavors are helping many break the cigarette habit. While there are several sources for commercial e-juice in hundreds of flavors it is also possible to prepare custom DIY e-juice, sometimes at a substantial savings in cost.

    The goal of this tutorial is to show that mixing and vaping your own e-juice is easy and can save you bundles of money, make you smarter, and help you look younger for years. The combination of ingredients I'll use will minimize the risk of potentially dangerous impure or even counterfeit ingredients making their way into your body. I'll outline the simple math steps to determine how much of the raw materials you need and how to mix them to your desired Nicotine strength. Following these methods you should be able to mix a medium strength juice with basic flavors for about 10 cents a ml. Less if you are a proficient shopper.

    A few prerequisites I ask the reader to complete before starting DIY mixing will be getting a clear picture of how much 'store bought' juice will cost you over the next year of vaping and how much you might be able to save by mixing your own. I'm going to ask you to practice some of the mixology math before you actually start mixing. While the hardest part of DIY mixing might be shopping for the raw ingredients and juggling the cost of the materials and shipping charges, the most important part is learning about SAFETY when handling Nicotine solutions. Make sure you know what you are doing before doing any real mixing.

    Don't try and blend exotic flavors or add extra ingredients to improve Throat Hit or increase sweetness or for any of the various reasons strange chemicals are added to e-juice. The more ingredients you add the higher the risk for making a batch you won't be able to stomach (yuk factor) or making a batch that will go bad before you can use it up. Leave your bulk e-juice stash as simple and uncomplicated as possible. I suggest keeping a reasonable quantity of maybe a 2 or 3 month supply) for general everyday vaping.

    I've been using these techniques for over 2 years to mix consistent tasting juice for a vaping family of 2. My likes and dislikes, methods, and assumptions will probably differ from those of the many experts you will run into. If you do not agree with anything contained in this tutorial I suggest you learn exactly why you don't agree and go forth benefiting from that knowledge.

    Although I believe that the information presented is correct and accurate and falls within the purview of generally accepted practices for the use of electronic cigarettes currently in the public domain, I offer no warranty or guarantee that the ingredients and methods presented, or that the vaporization and inhalation of liquid solutions containing Nicotine are indeed safe and will not harm you. The reader is further cautioned that use of this information is completely at your own risk.

    The author, known as Rocketman on online forums, requests that dissemination of this tutorial via a website operating as a for-profit, commercial entity include a reference or link to this original website and thread. Corrections/updates to the text will only be maintained in this web space.
    This tutorial is organized as follows:

    Preface----- You are Here
    Chapter 1 Nicotine Safety in the Home
    Chapter 2 Units of Measurement, Calculations and Examples
    Chapter 3 Ingredients-Time to Shop
    Chapter 4 Setting up a Temporary Home Mixing Lab
    Chapter 5 Preliminary Mixes
    Chapter 6 Final Adjustments and Testing
    Chapter 7 Labeling, Storing and Dispensing
    Summary----- Don't Go Jumping to the End and Spoil the Surprise

    Chapter 1 Nicotine Safety for the DIY Mixologist


    Every vaper should read up on the hazards of handling Nicotine solutions before actually playing around with DIY juice mixing. Got that? Go search the internet. The concentrations I am going to discuss in this tutorial while not as hazardous as pure undiluted Nicotine can still be dangerous if mishandled. Whereas a couple of drops of pure undiluted Nicotine, or even the fumes from a small spill can be deadly, diluted concentrations are not nearly as risky. A drop or two of what we will be working with or fumes from an open bottle (at room temperature) probably won’t cause any ill effects. The risk goes up at elevated temperature, so don’t heat Nicotine solutions and large exposed surface areas, like a spill, release larger amounts of Nicotine into the air. Have cleanup materials handy. Clean up spills immediately and get the cleanup materials outside. Quickly rinse NIC juice off your skin, another good reason to set up shop in the kitchen. Work with adequate ventilation and away from heat or flames. Don’t forget that some gas ranges still use burning pilot lights. Don’t mix Nicotine lab work with watching television. Get away from any distractions and let others know not to bother you until you are done.
    Just like reloading ammo.

    I want to caution anyone that is contemplating mixing up several months’ supply of e-juice to consider the risk should this ‘stash’ fall into the wrong hands. If a bottle of your stash makes its way to your child’s elementary school, and don’t think this can’t happen because 5th graders takes guns to school, you would be ‘in a heap a trouble’. Children (up to the age of about 25) are not capable of comprehending the risks involved. They will listen to the advice of one of their Facebook friends and try anything before believing anything you tell them. I wouldn’t put it past a teen trying a 5 hour energy drink laced with Nicotine and having no earthly idea why his heart stopped. And now days it’s not just boys but hip-hopping, ball-capping, pick-up driving girls that think they are just as invincible as the boys. If they hear it on the internet they will try it.

    Pets seem to be attracted to some of the ingredients in e-juice. They will play with a plastic bottle and chew on it until they puncture it then lap up the spillage. Keep all Nicotine juice under your tight control.

    If you are careful and follow the instructions in this tutorial anyone should be able to economically and safely mix your own e-juice. Make sure you understand every step of the process before you begin mixing. I recommend that you consider unflavored concentrations of 48 to 60mg/ml and stay away from 100mg/ml until you have prepared a few batches. Please don’t even think about using pure Nicotine.


    NOTE: Although the FDA considers Propylene Glycol to be 'generally safe' and it is used to make some dry dog foods soft and moist it is not considered safe for cats. Do not allow cats to consume any products that may contain PG.

    Chapter 2 Units of Measurement, Calculations and Examples

    Forget the mega-milli-litergram; we will be using the milligram (mg), the unit of measurement for mass, the milliliter (ml), the unit for liquid volume, and the derived unit milligrams per milliliter (mg/ml), which is the generally accepted measurement unit for the amount of Nicotine in e-juice. This defines the concentration of Nicotine as the number of milligrams of Nicotine in each milliliter of solution.

    For example, 18mg/ml e-juice has 18 milligrams of Nicotine in each milliliter of the juice. It follows that a 30 milliliter bottle would have 18 X 30, or 540 milligrams of Nicotine in the whole bottle, and a 500ml bottle of 60mg/ml would have 60mg in each milliliter (too strong to vape) but the whole bottle has 30,000 milligrams of Nicotine in it. Now that’s a whole lot of Nicotine Paw Paw.

    Calculating the total quantity of Nicotine in our mixes is important. We will be adding Nicotine containing juice and keeping track of the total number of milligrams of Nicotine we added. By dividing this quantity by the final volume (ml) of our mix we then know the strength, or concentration of the mix. I’ll toss out some examples but practice this until it makes absolute sense. This is important stuff.

    Example 1:
    I just bought a 120ml bottle of 48mg/ml unflavored. How much 20mg/ml juice will that make?
    That 120 ml bottle has 5760mg of Nicotine in it (120 X 48). If I divide the total nicotine by the desired concentration 5760mg divided by 20mg/ml I could make 288ml of diluted e-juice.
    After adding diluents like Propylene Glycol (PG), Vegetable Glycerin (VG), Flavorings (YUM), and thinning agents like water or grain alcohol (hick J) the Total Final Volume needs to end up close to 288ml. The best way to do this is to record everything put in the mix as we go.

    Example 2:
    How about that big 1 liter bottle of 100mg/ml unflavored we saw on the web at a great price? Just how much e-juice could I make from one of those dogs. First, how much Nicotine is there? 1000 X 100 = 100,000 milligrams.
    Since I normally vape 12mg/ml e-juice let’s try that. 100,000 divided by 12 gives us about 8333ml Total Final Volume. That’s more than 8 liters of 12mg/ml e-juice. That just might be a little much for a ‘first batch’. Let’s try something smaller.

    Example 3:
    Maybe a 250ml bottle of 50mg/ml unflavored for a total Nicotine content of 12500mg.
    And let’s make 15mg/ml e-juice this time. 12500 divided by 15 = 833ml of juice. Still a lot of e-juice but not quite in the eccentric hoarding category. Almost, but not quite.

    Example 4: Using the same unflavored bottle from example 3 we could make about 520ml of 24mg/ml e-juice.

    Practice these calculations, try different values. You must be able to calculate juice strength. If you need help performing these calculations, ask for help. Don’t start mixing until you can.
     
    Last edited:
    • Like
    Reactions: PryorExteriors
    Another unit of measurement I use is milligrams of Nicotine per dollar (mg/$).
    If we bought three 30ml bottles of flavored 24mg/ml ‘store bought’ e-juice for $10 each and paid $4.95 shipping, what is the mg/$ value for this order? Tick, tick, tick, times up.
    We got 2160mg of Nicotine, in a vapeable solution for $34.95. That comes out to 62mg/$.
    Try again. A five bottle sampler for $29.95, with 20ml bottles and strength of 18mg/ml. Did you get 60mg/$? I did. Now, why does this matter? It helps me compare prices and shop for bargains in bulk unflavored e-juice.

    Using your average daily consumption, calculate how much juice you use for 1 month, 3 months, a year. How many ml and how much total Nicotine (mg) do you go through each month? What is the cost in ml/$ and mg/$ of the e-juices you have been buying? What cost would make it worth your while to take up mixing your own? Determine where you are and where you want to go. Just remember that you also have to buy the PG and/or VG diluents and that 1000ml of 100mg/ml juice you found on-line really cheap is going to make a heap of diluted juice. Maybe more than you really need. Shoot for a 1 to 3 month supply at first, maybe less than a liter of diluted e-juice.

    Note: No algebras where harmed in the above examples.

    Chapter 3 Ingredients-It’s Time to Shop

    If the safety issues discussed in chapter 1 or the complicated (not) calculations in chapter 2 haven’t scared you off, then it’s about time to start shopping. You will need to select a supplier for each of the ingredients of your desired e-juice mix. If this involves buying from more than one source then shipping charges make pricing more complicated. I’m not going to tell you where to buy your supplies but I’ll give you a few things to watch out for.

    Plan out what you want to accomplish. Just how big a batch do you want to make? Figure out how much e-juice you go through in a month. How much total Nicotine. Then, how big a batch do you want to mix up. Prepare a shopping list estimate of the NIC juice, PG and VG you will need to make that big a batch. Then select one or two simple flavors and get about 10% of that batch size in each flavor. If you plan on making a whole liter of diluted e-juice, then get a 4 oz. bottle (about 120ml) of each flavor, and make two 500ml batches which you can blend together later if you want. You’ll have some flavor left over, but probably cheaper than getting 3 dozen 4ml bottles. Calculate the initial mg/$ of the unflavored bulk Nicotine liquid as well as the mg/$ of the final flavored mix using the cost of the Nicotine, PG, VG, Flavors, etc. If you shop you should be able to produce a liter of diluted e-juice (18 to 24mg/ml) for about 10 cents a ml , or $3 for a 30ml bottle. What, you’ve been paying more?
    Then pick a supplier that has been selling the product you want for several months and search for objective feedback from past customers. Don’t just dive in and buy the biggest bottle of the strongest juice you can find because it was cheap.

    PG and VG; which one should I buy?
    You should already have a general idea of which you like before you start mixing. Try ‘store bought’ e-juice in both PG and VG formulations before buying your DIY supplies. Since many vapers are not completely satisfied with either PG or VG based e-juice, a blend would probably be a safer bet for a large DIY batch. Prices for either are comparable so go with something in the middle. 50/50 works for me, but if you have a real preference for one or the other try 25/75 or 75/25. And if you use Glycerin, use Vegetable Glycerin, not Glycerin for rubbing on baby butts from the skin care isle at Wally World.

    A word of caution about flavors. The more exotic sounding a flavor is, the more ingredients it probably has in it. Unless you can evaluate the stability of these ingredients for long term storage, I would recommend sticking with flavors that sound simpler. I have no idea what chemicals it would take to make Ham and Eggs flavor, or waffles with maple syrup. Simple clear fruit flavors like Black Cherry, Strawberry, or even the Tobacco flavors or extracts would probably store better. I take exception to this rule in that I like Red Bull flavor and have no idea what chemicals are in it.

    A small amount of your DIY batch in a simple flavor could be added to some of your ‘store bought’ flavors to spread then out some. Pick a couple of flavors that you like and start shopping. I dispense from my bulk stash, some Red Bull, a little Black Cherry, and add it to some Cigarette type flavor and keep that out on the counter as my normal vape.

    Shopping for good prices, combining shipping charges, and looking for a good deal from a reliable vendor can take a lot of effort. The end result is worth it because in addition to saving money you can take pride in vaping your own concoctions without puking. Here’s a sample shopping list just for reference:
    250ml of 48, 50 or 60mg/ml Nicotine, unflavored;
    250ml of PG;
    250ml of VG;
    4 oz. of Flavor 1;
    4 oz. of flavor 2;

    Buy quantities close to what you estimate you will need. Unless you mix a lot of e-juice, I don’t want to know what the last 250ml of that gallon jug of PG looks like. The shopping list above should run you less than $100 and yield about 820 ml of 15 to 18mg/ml diluted e-juice.

    Chapter 4 Setting up a Temporary Lab

    If you are like me, you’ll be mixing e-juice in the kitchen. Plenty of counter space, good lighting, running water, close to the bathroom, electrical outlets out the waszzu, and close to an emergency exit (the back door). Pick a time slot that will give you undisturbed access. So don’t do this while the wife is preparing dinner. You need to pre- clean and setup your lab ware, supplies and cleanup materials in advance. Disinfect the countertops and anything close by that you might have to handle during the process. Pre clean all lab ware, pots and pans, etc., and set all raw materials out a couple of hours in advance to come to room temperature. J). Rinse all containers and do a ‘smell check’. If you smell soap, rinse again. Cover the counter top with a strip of paper towel and put a bath towel on the floor to stand on. This will allow you to contain any spills and rapidly remove a large spill by wadding up the towel and tossing it outside.

    NOTE: Performing the actual mixing operation in a flat shallow plastic pan will immediately catch any spilled liquid and allow you to easily move it outside.


    Cold liquids don’t mix well but don’t warm NIC juice, PG or VG in the microwave. Just let them come to room temperature slowly (don’t forget to set the thermostat for exactly room temperature). I recommend wearing gloves, both as a protection from Nicotine poisoning, and to reduce contamination of the batch you’re mixing. Take the gloves off if you need to scratch. Sometimes I forget.

    Buying some basic lab ware might be helpful. A couple student grade 100ml graduated cylinders, glass with a plastic base, can be found on-line for $5 or $6 each. A 10ml syringe or some disposable pipettes will be needed to measure small quantities of flavor and water. We’ll also use the syringe to calibrate the thickness of your DIY batch. Free measuring devices come with the raw materials you bought. The 250ml bottles of VG, PG, or the unflavored juice are good enough to measure with if you use the entire bottle. Think the whole process through before you start and you will find a way to easily measure all ingredients. A half-gallon or two liter juice container with a nice wide mouth, larger than the lid on a two liter coke bottle, is a good mixing vessel. Don’t use a container that had some strange chemical in it no matter how pretty it is.

    Mix accuracies of +/- 5% will be more than adequate. You may end up with a final Nic strength 5% low, 17mg/ml or 5% high, 19mg/ml instead of the 18mg/ml you might have been shooting for, but I doubt you could tell. Many mixing errors are sort of self-cancelling anyway, due to the properly of ‘sameness’ exhibited when making multiple measurements with the same measuring instrument.

    Before mixing, lay out a pen and paper on the ‘lab counter’. We want to lay out a mixing plan in advance and record everything that goes into the mix, right when it is added. If you remember from the chapter on calculations, we absolutely need to know the total milligrams of Nicotine we put into the mix, and the Total Final Volume of the mix. So, record the NIC as 250ml of 50mg/ml (12,500mg), or however much you put in. Then record the ml of each ingredient as it is added. Don’t forget to record as you go, because you can’t figure it out later. If you’ve never done this before, do a ‘dry run’ with a bottle of water for the NIC, a bottle of water for the PG and a bottle of water for the VG, and a bottle of water for, yup you guessed it, the water. Just go through the motions, and record values just like you plan to with the real ingredients. Don’t forget to record everything you put in the mix.
     
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    Chapter 5 Preliminary Mixes

    Now that our temporary lab is set up and the liquids are exactly at room temperature, let’s begin.
    Start the mix by measuring out the unflavored NIC into the mixing vessel. If you are using the entire bottle of NIC, just pour it in and rely on the label volume. If you bought 250ml, believe it. If not, measure out 100ml at a time with the Cylinder. Don’t use the Pyrex kitchen cup measure, it’s too wide to accurately measure. Drain as much as you can but no need to get it all. If you put in 100ml, drained about 99ml, filled back up to the 100 mark, drained 99ml out of that, filled up to the 50 mark, drained 49 and left 1 behind then you got 247 out of 250ml, that’s about a 1% error. Good enough. The NIC left behind will actually end up in the mix anyway. Your mix record should have each addition recorded. Don’t forget.

    PG goes in next. Measure using the same cylinder as you did for the NIC and the residual NIC will not be wasted. The PG will wash it out and into the mix. The error now moves to the amount of PG you added, but still about +/-1%.

    Now the VG. This is some thick stuff. If you dump the entire container into the mix, record the label volume. But if adding only part of the bottle then we have to use the graduated cylinder. Pour this into the mixing vessel. Ha, thick stuff, right? Get as much as you can. Add about 10ml of the Flavor to the cylinder and swish around to mix with the thick VG. Add that to the mix and record the ml of VG and the Flavor added. Do the same thing for each cylinder of VG you add and most of it will end up in the mix. It’s so much easier to dump a whole bottle of VG into the mix though.

    NOTE: If you are mixing a juice that is mostly VG it might help to slightly warm the VG n a pan of warm water. You can rinse the measure instrument with a couple ml of your thinning liquid (water or ethanol) to get most of the VG into the mixing vessel. Record the VG added and the water added. Repeat as necessary. Use as little thinner at this point as you can to transfer the VG residue.

    At this point we have all of our NIC juice, PG, and VG in the mixing vessel, and some of the Flavor.
    Use the remaining flavor to rinse any residual NIC juice or VG and pour into the mix. You might reserve some of the Flavor to add after a ‘vape test’. You can always add more to suit your taste. Sort of like adding salt to spaghetti sauce.

    Thinning the mix. If you used any VG you may have to thin the mix. I try and make my PG/VG blend about the same thickness as commercial PG based juice. There is no need to put up with thick VG e-juice. There are viscosity curves for VG/water mixes, but we don’t really know the viscosity of our mix, so these aren’t much use other than to notice there is a slow thinning until the water content gets to 5% of the VG then it starts thinning fast. We don’t want to thin too much, as it’s much more difficult to thicken up than thin down. The NIC juice and PG will thin the VG some so go light on the water until you have tested the thickness. Maybe 3% of the VG volume for now. Don’t forget to consider the water you added to get the last few drops of VG.
    If you used 250ml of VG, add about 8ml of water. Freshly open bottled water is fine.

    We should now know how much Nicotine is in our mix, the total volume, and can make a preliminary estimate of the strength in mg/ml. Remember we still have a little flavor to add, and a little more water, but we are close to the final result. Close up the mixing vessel and thoroughly mix everything together. Roll, slosh, shake, mix it up. Now set it aside, loosen the cap, and let it sit until all the air bubbles have risen and the juice looks clear. Take a break.

    Chapter 6 Final Adjustments and Testing

    Calibrating and testing your batch. Before we add the remaining Water and Flavor we need to do a little testing. Remember the 3% of water we added? I use some ‘store bought’ juice, some that seems to be the ‘right thickness’ and wick well, to compare the thickness of my DIY mixes. Aerated juice with suspended air bubbles will not flow the same. Wait until your mix is clear of all air bubbles. Take a large 10ml syringe and draw up 10ml of the ‘store bought’ juice, remove the plunger and record the time it takes to drain back into the bottle. Maybe do this 2 or 3 times to see if you get the same drain back time. Jot this down. Now draw up the same amount of your DIY mix and determine the drain back time for it. If it takes longer, add a few ml of water, roll the juice to mix (don’t shake it this time) and test again. Thinning your first batch takes a little trial and error. Just don’t go too thin. Record how much additional water you added so we can keep track of the Total Volume.

    This ‘baby’ un-aged e-juice will not taste as good as it will later but we need to test vape a little to see if we need more flavor. If you’re not sure you can always wait until later to add the final flavor. A small amount of Flavor will change the strength very little. For example, if you have 800ml of 15mg/ml juice (12,000mg of Nicotine), adding 20 more milliliters, changing the Total Final Volume to 820ml with the same 12,000mg of Nicotine will reduce the strength to 14.6mg/ml. Remember the strength calculations in chapter 2?
    When you have thinned and flavored to your heart’s content, set the juice someplace safe, out of direct light with the cap just lightly screwed on. Let it sit overnight before tightening the cap and putting it away.
     
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    Chapter 7 Labeling, Storing and Dispensing

    Labeling:
    Before putting your batch of delicious DIY juice in the fridge make up a label that includes the strength, date mixed, and flavor. I use a stick-on Avery address label then cover the label with clear tape. PG and VG still manage to get under the tape and blur the writing after a while. Make sure this does not look like any food or drink products in your fridge and don’t use reclaimed food or drink bottles so your stash won’t be mistaken for something edible. Remember this stuff can be dangerous.

    I use 16 oz. Vegetable Glycerin bottles to store my DIY stash. You could buy glass bottles but don’t forget my earlier caution about breakage. Look for PETE (recycle code 1) or HDPE (recycle code 2) bottles. Dropper bottles with a rubber bulb may breakdown and taint the flavor of e-juice so I wouldn’t use those for long term storage.

    Cold Storage of e-juice
    I haven’t been able to actually freeze an e-juice mixture. They will get thick and cannot be used until warmed back to room temperature. Nicotine, PG and VG in e-juice solutions should be safe for several months if the extra ingredients are kept simple.

    I’ve read about juice losing flavor, or turning rancid when stored in the household refrigerator and even one brand turning green after being chilled. I’ll go along with not chilling ‘store bought’ juice if it is contrary to the manufacturer’s recommendation. They know what’s best for their juice and what strange chemicals are in it, you don’t. Some do refrigerate juice prior to selling it to you. When in doubt ask. Depending on the chemicals in ‘store bought’ juice there may be a de-mixing, or separation of the ingredients that were blended in a specific order or heated just to get them to mix. Once separated, you may not be able to re-mix them. Crystallization or sedimentation may be signs that the quality of your e-juice stash has degraded. Except those flavored with tobacco extracts where a little sedimentation is expected. Hopefully your ‘store bought’ juice doesn’t have ingredients that are reacting in a cold dark refrigerator and making new chemicals.

    I’ve also heard about juice picking up odors and tastes when stored with aromatic foods. Why wouldn’t the juice also pick up smells when stored in a shoebox in your closet, next to your running shoes? Vapor pressure. Most liquids have some vapor pressure, and tend to flood the environment around them with fumes from the chemicals in the liquid. If you are worried, toss the half eaten fish dinner out. Keep the e-juice.

    Dispensing from your cold storage ‘stash’.
    Do not use cold e-juice straight from the fridge. There is a chance that the ingredients have layered and separated and dispensing a small quantity may have more or less Nicotine or flavor than you expect. Probably not, but why chance it. Let it come to room temperature, mix it up some and transfer some to a smaller bottle (about a week’s supply). Try and keep things as clean as possible. Put the cap back on and return to the fridge.

    In Summary

    DIY e-juice mixing isn’t for everyone. Some really enjoy trying different flavors that just can’t quite be duplicated in the home DIY lab. If you are happy with ‘store bought’ juice, stick with it. But, if you want to try DIY mixing to save a little money, or even just for the entertainment value of Doing It Yourself, then study up and know what you are doing first. Record everything you put in your mix. If you’ve never mixed a DIY batch, read this tutorial twice and perform a ‘dry run’ before working with the real stuff. Once you’ve done this a couple of times it takes less time to mix up a batch than to read this tutorial.

    Start small and stay away from the really strong stuff, or pure Nicotine. It’s just too big a risk for the home chemist. Be safe and have fun.

    Rocketman

    Record of Revision
    6/28/11 Draft
    6/29/11 Initial Release, added Disclaimer to post 1, minor corrections to text.
    6/30/11 Added note to post 2 about risk for cats consuming PG.
     
    I've been in the chemical biz for 39 years and we represent some of the largest chemical mfg's in the world. The largest chemical mfg (and many others) will not allow sale of their glycols into vape products or even theatrical fog applications. I.E. amusement parks, concerts etc.

    So they won't even let their product be used in a heated application outside in large areas!
     
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    Dow chemical uses processes not suited for vaping.
    Synthetic processes, even though the same molecule has been shunned
    There are several producers across the US that deliver tanker trucks to E-Juice producers and retailers.
     
    Where they are going with this is obvious. Demonize the user then tax the shit out of it, just like tabbaco. Lots of people running around tooting on their douche flutes.

    Medical science is dead. You get the results that were paid for now.
     
    If this is really a problem then I think it may depend on where you get your shit from. Buy various brands and home brews from every mom and pop vape shop and you get what you got.

    I have not smoked a cigarette in over 9 years. That is a feat. I was breathing better after 30 days of converting.

    That said, it's probably time to put the pacifier down.
     
    Think I'll just stick to my 7yr old bourbon and clean air. Got enough health problems from abusing my body with construction work for 35yrs. Without adding any chemicals to the mix.
     
    We've had both sides presented.
    One thing for sure, Smoking is bad. Quit Smoking.
    Vaping might be less bad. Vape instead of Smoking.
    Quit smoking, quit vaping, or never start, is obviously the best.

    How much did your last pack of cigs cost you?
    (1982 prices, or 2023 prices). No one is going to smoke in 2024.

    Now, the nanny state will NEVER indicate that there might be some benefit with vaping for older folks.
    Will NEVER happen.
    This is a biased site, that contradicts anything from the medical community that gets government money.

     
    If this is really a problem then I think it may depend on where you get your shit from. Buy various brands and home brews from every mom and pop vape shop and you get what you got.

    I have not smoked a cigarette in over 9 years. That is a feat. I was breathing better after 30 days of converting.

    That said, it's probably time to put the pacifier down.
    A quit cigs circa 82? Like you I felt improvement quickly and for quite some time. Smoked weed for sometime longer but finally asked myself, why am I doing this to my lungs and let it go. Why anyone with a mind would put anything but air into their lungs is beyond my understanding.
     
    We've had both sides presented.
    One thing for sure, Smoking is bad. Quit Smoking.
    Vaping might be less bad. Vape instead of Smoking.
    Quit smoking, quit vaping, or never start, is obviously the best.

    How much did your last pack of cigs cost you?
    (1982 prices, or 2023 prices). No one is going to smoke in 2024.

    Now, the nanny state will NEVER indicate that there might be some benefit with vaping for older folks.
    Will NEVER happen.
    This is a biased site, that contradicts anything from the medical community that gets government money.

    I remember $1.80 per carton cigarettes.

    The only thing you've said in all your posts that makes any sense or reason is youre 4th line above.

    "Quit smoking, quit vaping, or never start, is obviously the best."
     
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    First, I'll say congrats for not smoking for the last 42 years.
    That is great.
    I still see people smoking though. At what $5 a pack?

    I can also see the FDA and their drive to eliminate younger folks from starting either cigs or vapes.
    They have been coming down on small businesses operating out of a kitchen in a strip mall.
    They might be a little misguided in flavor preferences between kids and adults, but are in general looking out for you, want it or not. If efforts to curb smoking and vaping reduce those starting up, great.
    They also went after counterfeit products, and fake labels, and oil based liquids.
    Many additives to e-juice have been found to be really bad, or really unknown.

    The bad press about e-cigs sort of takes the steam out of someone quitting smoking and transitioning to vaping. They suggest, gum or patches, and a few weeks to quit.
    Some just don't have the balls to quit cold turkey. Guess I'm one, but I like to vape, damn the government.
    I watch my vaping supplies like my reloading components.
    BTW, the government don't want us to have this either.

    Nonsmokers can call us names, but if you are still smoking, maybe you be the dumb one.
    "Quit smoking, quit vaping, or never start, is obviously the best."

    Now, a question to those that still smoke.
    WHY?
     
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    A quit cigs circa 82? Like you I felt improvement quickly and for quite some time. Smoked weed for sometime longer but finally asked myself, why am I doing this to my lungs and let it go. Why anyone with a mind would put anything but air into their lungs is beyond my understanding.

    The human body has a miraculous capability to heal when firing on all cylinders. We are exposed to all sorts of external pathogens and toxins daily that we take into our lungs. That doesn't excuse smoking or vaping to calm the nerves, but why some people get away with it with minimal health impacts.

    You ever smell your farts, your dog's, or a stranger's in close proximity?

    Why do you allow yourself to whiff on the colon gas bro?

    It boggles the mind.
     
    First, I'll say congrats for not smoking for the last 42 years.
    That is great.
    I still see people smoking though. At what $5 a pack?
    In all fairness, I didnt quit, I was 'delivered' from it.
     
    I used Tabex when I quit smoking. Like most things in the US, it's not sold here because pharma wants you to buy their products and they own the government so... When I quit I had no withdrawal effects at all. It's all natural, and used widely in Europe and Brazil.

    I do still smoke the occasional cigar, probably once every few months, but I don't count that as even remotely similar to smoking cigarettes a pack a day.

    There's surely been a couple times I tried to start again, bad life moments, and it just didn't do it for me anymore. Just made me feel like shit.
     
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    Buddy of mine showed up to a cigar Night here at Schloss Nitrocellulose with a “vape cigar” (the tip
    Got red when you sucked on it even!) and some kind of blueberry smelling vape.

    10 years later, he is “blueberry muffin man” and will never live that down. If lives to be 100… he will always be “the guy who brought a blueberry muffin cigar to cigar night.

    I’d eat a Luger before I’d do that!

    Sirhr
     
    Well, I don't vape popcorn butter flavor, so, I'm good.

    I started smoking cigarettes 05-25-1982 and quit cigarettes 01-28-2018 (approx 36 years.) I did it by going to vape. I promised myself that I could tug on the vape however much I wanted as long as I didn't have a cigarette.

    Over time, I have reduced the wattage and now, I can go hours without it. Most of day without it. And barely inhaling, more for taste. That is why I did not go for fruity flavors. Just the tobacco flavor, which turns out to be vanilla.

    I am part of a lung cancer study for my doctor and just had my second annual low dose scan. Still clear. I lucked out big time.
     
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