Dealer obviously has the serial number and paperwork, but no can in his possession. I don't believe it is even manufactured yet. So is this commonly done? Doesn't sound like a good idea to me what so ever, but I have never personally been in that situation. Coworker of mine is though and have no input for him. Thought I would see what you guys think.
Suppressors Submitting suppressor paperwork w/o the dealer having the can in hand.
- Thread starter GUNNER75
- Start date
I wouldn't do it. I have heard some horror stories about super long wait times with suppressors not in stock. If you dont mind the wait then go for it....
I have never done this, my father who is FFL/SOT has never done this and I do not recommend doing this. The dealer is probably just trying to expedite the paperwork process...but, if there is an issue getting the can to the dealer, it could turn into a loss of $200 on your part and whatever other legalities that may pop up.
I suggest waiting until your dealer has the suppressor in his possession; you inspect it and approve, then finally submit the form 4 at that point.
I suggest waiting until your dealer has the suppressor in his possession; you inspect it and approve, then finally submit the form 4 at that point.
It is my understanding that the ATF will not allow this. Can must be manufactured and in the physical world, registered with the ATF by the manufacturer before any transfer paper work can begin. And then the can gets transferred to the FFL, then to you. You can't skip steps to make it go faster. You can double check me I don't care, but that is how it was explained to me by the two manufacturers involved in the two group buys I have been involved in.
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Thanks for the input. Like I mentioned, I have never had this situation in front of me, but my coworker is setting here with everything but the can at the dealer. My advise is hold off until the dealer receives the can. So far that is what he is planning on doing.
FWIW, the dealer (one of the same dealers I have used) isn't pushing anything or suggesting it to my knowledge. This was suggested by the manufacture to bandaid the unexpected longer manufacturing of the suppressor.
FWIW, the dealer (one of the same dealers I have used) isn't pushing anything or suggesting it to my knowledge. This was suggested by the manufacture to bandaid the unexpected longer manufacturing of the suppressor.
My Friend is doing this with a 50BMG suppressor that he is getting from a Gun Shop that does a large amount of Sup sales. Mfg supplied SR# and store sent off the paper work. Saves on wait time but you need to have a store and Mfg that can be trusted.
I have heard of doing this when doing a Form 3 dealer to dealer and submitting the Form 4 at the same time. Wait times for Form 4's are up to 11 months, 2 months or more just to go pending then 9 months till approval. Throw in a Form 3, which a recent thread had some waiting 3 months, you're over a year. So you could cut down on the wait time a couple months by submitting it now. Manufacturer is guessing that the wait times will stay this way for awhile.
Mine was ordered up and a serial # was provided by the factory (AAC). The paper work was submitted as the order was placed and the suppressor arrived four months after it was ordered. The paper work took 5 months and three weeks to be approved.
If I had waited it would have made the process four months longer.
Guess it depends how much you trust the dealer. I trust mine.
I work the gun counter and family owned gun store were an FFL/SOT I'll help people submit form 4's when our main guy isn't there, it is against our policy to start a form 4 before we have a can on hand. Its just flat out stupid, if things go wrong your left with nothing to show for it but wasted time and are risking losing $200 I work to hard for my money to give it away like that. The whole crock is the amount of revunue generated for a muffler that goes on a gun. Over 5.2 million dollars and they have anywhere from 5-9 examiners really why can't you get more people. I really wish "silencers" would be de-listed from the NFA list it would make my life easier instead of dealing with irate customers that call every week during the 7-12 month wait to see if we recieved their tax stamp.
The fun ones are the guys that think you didn't submit their paperwork, but they can see the BATFE cashed their check.
The fun ones are the guys that think you didn't submit their paperwork, but they can see the BATFE cashed their check.
Not just no, but hell no.
Call the ATF and ask the person answering, then call the next day, then the next day. "They" have given different info on different days. Their number is (304) 616-4500.
I would tell you to call the nfa and talk to Mr. Howard but would just be tying him up from getting my stuff done. FWIW, I have gotten a SN before an actual product is produced and went thought the steps with no problems. Saved me about 3 months.
Bad idea . They will get screwed if the form 4 passes up the form 3 in system.
^^ very true! You need to make sure the manufacturer is on the same page as your dealer. The field officer that I call in the Milwaukee branch said there should be no problems. That is why I did it the time that I did.
But like someone said earlier,call ten different people and get 11 different answers. Kinda like the DOT...
I do it every day. Whats the worst that can happen? Paperwork just gets kicked back and your place in line is maintained. Not doing this used to be true when form 3 were fast and form 4 used to not be ridiculously long. Maybe thats why people buy alot of suppressors from me as they don't have to wait as long.
I went to the FFL/SOT that I chose (Calibers) and handed them the Form 3 I received and asked them to do the Form 4. They said they wouldn't do it until they had the Can in hand. In my case, the dealer I am buying the can from has the Can in stock.
I explained that it was my understand they could legally submit the Form 4 and there presented your argument. They said that the ATF has specifically told them not to do this.
I countered that they were just adding 3 months to my wait time. They told me that I may have better luck with another FFL.
Calibers used to be a great place to shoot, buy gear, and use as an FFL. They changed management a couple years ago and have been going down hill since. They screwed up my last Can order, then lied to me about it. So I am buying this can though Reaper Arms. Scott has been great to work with. Now Calibers is adding to my wait time, so I guess Calibers has lost my future FFL business.
Lesson Learned: Not all FFLs will submit the Form 4 before having the can in their hands. If you want to save 3 months, find an FFL that is willing to do this BEFORE you have your Form 3 submitted.
I explained that it was my understand they could legally submit the Form 4 and there presented your argument. They said that the ATF has specifically told them not to do this.
I countered that they were just adding 3 months to my wait time. They told me that I may have better luck with another FFL.
Calibers used to be a great place to shoot, buy gear, and use as an FFL. They changed management a couple years ago and have been going down hill since. They screwed up my last Can order, then lied to me about it. So I am buying this can though Reaper Arms. Scott has been great to work with. Now Calibers is adding to my wait time, so I guess Calibers has lost my future FFL business.
Lesson Learned: Not all FFLs will submit the Form 4 before having the can in their hands. If you want to save 3 months, find an FFL that is willing to do this BEFORE you have your Form 3 submitted.
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The ATF is very clear on this issue. The answer is "No." Neither you, nor your FFL, can transfer, or submit an application to transfer an NFA firearm prior to being in physical possession of that firearm.
Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - National Firearms Act (NFA) - Firearms | ATF
A silencer is considered an NFA firearm.
Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - National Firearms Act (NFA) - Firearms | ATF
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We are asked to do this all the time .I have asked NFA several times and have been told no every time . They know this is going on
and I got the feeling they are going to deal with it.
Thanks
Randy
and I got the feeling they are going to deal with it.
Thanks
Randy
Very interesting. I will be bringing that up on my next call to the aft again.
