3.090-inch 1000-yard group using a Savage Model 12 F-TR
- Thread starter Wlfdg
- Start date
Impossible. How did he even feed the first round into the chamber? Everybody knows they dont feed. After first shot, how did he extract the case? Everybody knows they dont extract. And dont even get me started on that trigger!
I was waiting to read that the barrel fell off also.
Damn Savages...
I was waiting to read that the barrel fell off also.
Damn Savages...
With 155's????
Well, it's certainly possible. The question is, can he do it again.... and again?
Sheer random chance dictates that this is feasible and should happen now and again. Also, plenty of rifles can 'mechanically' shoot 1/3rd MOA these days.
The difficulty comes when you add the external ballistics... at 1000 yards, making zero mistakes during 5 shots over several minutes on all your external variables -- critical with light 155 bullets. Then take into account your internal ballistic factors like barrel temp... is more than a bit difficult.
Not saying it didn't happen. It's an amazing group. The shooter did a heck of a job!
Cheers,
Sirhr
P.S. Maybe @Lowlight, who has a lot of experience at these ranges... more than me, certainly, can comment. If you do the ballistics holds using 155s at 1,000, the bullets are dropping in a ballistic arc from something like 16 feet above the target (this is from memory, so pardon my number here if it's off). If that's the case, shouldn't the bullet holes be a bit keyholed top-to-bottom as they will pass through the paper at a pretty sharp angle? Those holes look pretty straight-on to me. Again, not trying to say that this didn't happen. But it's pretty remarkable shooting for any gun and shooter.
Well, it's certainly possible. The question is, can he do it again.... and again?
Sheer random chance dictates that this is feasible and should happen now and again. Also, plenty of rifles can 'mechanically' shoot 1/3rd MOA these days.
The difficulty comes when you add the external ballistics... at 1000 yards, making zero mistakes during 5 shots over several minutes on all your external variables -- critical with light 155 bullets. Then take into account your internal ballistic factors like barrel temp... is more than a bit difficult.
Not saying it didn't happen. It's an amazing group. The shooter did a heck of a job!
Cheers,
Sirhr
P.S. Maybe @Lowlight, who has a lot of experience at these ranges... more than me, certainly, can comment. If you do the ballistics holds using 155s at 1,000, the bullets are dropping in a ballistic arc from something like 16 feet above the target (this is from memory, so pardon my number here if it's off). If that's the case, shouldn't the bullet holes be a bit keyholed top-to-bottom as they will pass through the paper at a pretty sharp angle? Those holes look pretty straight-on to me. Again, not trying to say that this didn't happen. But it's pretty remarkable shooting for any gun and shooter.
Hi,
Well Hell....Choate stock sales just went through the roof lolol
Sincerely,
Theis
Well Hell....Choate stock sales just went through the roof lolol
Sincerely,
Theis
If you do the math for that load it's closer to 9.5 feet... and that 'peak' is somewhere around 600 yards. 9.5 feet, over 400yds, is a pretty shallow angle - enough that it's be almost impossible to visually 'tell' from looking at the target up close and in person, much less from a photo over the Internet...
They demo'd this in the Art of the Precision Rifle Magpul videos. They placed two large frame paper targets at 1k or 1mi(?) about 10'-20' apart and measured the drop angle between the holes the bullet made in the front and back targets....it was a pretty shallow angle.
I would bet, it was just a good day for him,
If he is competing in BR Comps, there should be a record of his scores, I would look at those as an indicator of the results.
Odds are it is a one-off, and he had a really good day and people were watching.
If he is competing in BR Comps, there should be a record of his scores, I would look at those as an indicator of the results.
Odds are it is a one-off, and he had a really good day and people were watching.
^^^ And I think this is exactly right...
Not trying to take anything away from a great accomplishment... everyone deserves a great day!
Cheers,
Sirhr
Not trying to take anything away from a great accomplishment... everyone deserves a great day!
Cheers,
Sirhr
I have a Choate stock on my M700 Varmint. One of the Plaster-designed "Ulltimate Sniper" stocks. It is neither.
That said, it took a rifle that would shoot dimes one day... and then would not hit a thing the next, because the wood stock was so flexible that a few degrees of temperature drop or humidity would walk its POI all over the place. I put a Choate stock on it and it turned into a a tack driver that has never needed a scope adjustment in 20 years.
It's a heavy stock. Not especially pretty or ergonomic. But it does shoot. It is about a perfect varmint stock!!!
Oh and I love John Plaster... Even if the term 'ultimate' is a bit.... generous.
His book, though a bit dated, is IMHO required reading for folks here.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Lol, if hed shot the record with a custom 6.5 CM, would your post have been this winded?
Probably... because even a 6.5 in 1/3rd moa requires some remarkable skill or some remarkable luck to shoot a 3" group at 1000.
It's simply a matter of mechanical repeatability (ie some amazing internal ballistics) and some really, really amazing external ballistics... in other words, estimation of a number of factors over several minutes... to bring in a group that tight.
I never said not possible. I did say that it's a really challenging to do... and probably very, very hard to repeat.
6.5... .300 WM... 308... whatever. It's still an amazing feat. And if you want to go with the concept of monkeys and Shakespeare... you have a winner.
The shooter should be commended. It's an extraordinary accomplishment. And, daresay, a hard-to-repeat one. That does not take away from the fact that he was in the right place, at the right time, with the right equipment and... some good luck. To make a record-shot.
But to make it a 'skill' vs. a good day... I'd say that he should repeat it a few times. Otherwise, it is a record-breaking anomaly.. But still a broken record!
Cheers,
Sirhr
It's simply a matter of mechanical repeatability (ie some amazing internal ballistics) and some really, really amazing external ballistics... in other words, estimation of a number of factors over several minutes... to bring in a group that tight.
I never said not possible. I did say that it's a really challenging to do... and probably very, very hard to repeat.
6.5... .300 WM... 308... whatever. It's still an amazing feat. And if you want to go with the concept of monkeys and Shakespeare... you have a winner.
The shooter should be commended. It's an extraordinary accomplishment. And, daresay, a hard-to-repeat one. That does not take away from the fact that he was in the right place, at the right time, with the right equipment and... some good luck. To make a record-shot.
But to make it a 'skill' vs. a good day... I'd say that he should repeat it a few times. Otherwise, it is a record-breaking anomaly.. But still a broken record!
Cheers,
Sirhr
Lots of F standard guys running hot loads with 155 Bergers doing great at 1k all round the world. High
2900s with 2208 ( Varget ) powder, plenty of velocity left at target. It’s agood reality check of your wind
skills, especially after shooting high BC anything else...
2900s with 2208 ( Varget ) powder, plenty of velocity left at target. It’s agood reality check of your wind
skills, especially after shooting high BC anything else...
Every so often the moons align and all those rounds that would normally shoot into 8 or 24 inches will come together into a once in a lifetime grouping. World records for the most part have luck involved, top shooters will have better groups when an average is taken of their targets and have a better chance of a record group. I think it's cool this happened, will be a moment he'll never forget but just as easily get at the bottom of the score sheet next time.
Toostrap
Toostrap
It's not, unless you do it with people watching at a sanctioned event ?
Records 'fall' all the time... but doing it when it counts - in this case, in competition, at a match - is the tricky part ?
I’ve got a very accurate 308 AR rifle that I’ve shot at 1000 yards quite a lot since I’ve got access to a 1000 yard pasture range. I shoot 150 smk s Granted I can’t do anything like this kind of grouping, but I’ve never noticed anything but round holes in the paper at 1000yds. And my loads I’m sure are slower than his. The group is certainly possible but it couldn’t be duplicated by him anytime soon. The fact is that if you shoot enough at 1000 yards you will eventually get an amazing group some where down the line. He can’t duplicate it nor should he have to. If all records had to be duplicated to get into the books none of them would be records.
Um, 15-60x Vortex riflescope? 
I’m sure it’s possible. Could be in an area with virtually no wind, with all the right weather variables, got lucky, etc. and was on bench. Don’t even get me started on benchrest stuff lol. To me that takes all of the skill out as from that standpoint it’s really all about how good you are at loading and how well your rifle was built. Haha.
Truthfully, I don’t care too much about my groups at distance. As long as it hits the target I’m good to go.
I’m sure it’s possible. Could be in an area with virtually no wind, with all the right weather variables, got lucky, etc. and was on bench. Don’t even get me started on benchrest stuff lol. To me that takes all of the skill out as from that standpoint it’s really all about how good you are at loading and how well your rifle was built. Haha.Truthfully, I don’t care too much about my groups at distance. As long as it hits the target I’m good to go.
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Sounds like someone doesn't know how to interpret posts, especially those containing sarcasm/humor or conjecture. Like someone wants to go around and be a fucking troll.
Sounds like somebody’s got his pink panties in a twist
Um, 15-60x Vortex riflescope?
Truthfully, I don’t care too much about my groups at distance. As long as it hits the target I’m good to go.
Benchrest shooting as like any other rifle shooting competition. The wind will screw you every time. Skill is still required. Atleast to be competitive.
I agree heavygun classes are more of a reloading contest. Free recoil shooting isnt really shooting
Wow... as for Savages, I really like my .22 LR FV-SR, it's damned accurate out to 300 meters, never owned one in a large caliber tho.
Gotta be fake news...everybody knows they can't have guns in the UK, Savages are junk, and a .308 can't shoot that far.
VooDoo
VooDoo
Not witoutta hayer tragger n some silvertips . ?
The guy that got me started in LR won more than a few NRA HP matches with 155 Lapua Scenars stuffed in a case full of Varget, his rifle was built on a long action because the barrel was throated so long that he barely got the base of the 155 seated in the case. His 30” long 14 twist pushed the 155’s at 2975.
I picked up a new Savage Hog Hunter 308 last month to help control the feral hogs on our place. It shot a 1/2" group at 200 yards with a hand load I lucked into early, but the flimsy plastic stock made doing that consistently very difficult. Installed a Choate sniper stock last week because I found one on the interweb for $165 shipped and figured its worth trying at that price. I was invited to a 1000 yard range last Thursday, Got lucky and hit a 11" steel plate on the first shot at 1000, then shot a 4" high x 10" wide four shot group. This is my first savage and my first Choate stock, but needless to say, I'm sold on both. Got about $1100 in it total, including a Vortex Viper 6.5x20-50 PA scope.
It is possible and it is repeatable but only every 3rd Saturday of every 5th month. In other words, he was lucky and it would take a lot to replicate this outcome.
I had a 7.62x39 AR-15, it put 5 rounds of Wold steel case through one hole at 100 yards. When I got home i heard something rattling, and the scope was about to fall off of it. Neither it nor the ammo ever shot another half inch group. i guess maybe I should have left the scope loose.
Crazy good shooting, congrats on the record.
Crazy good shooting, congrats on the record.
