AXMC vs MRAD in 2020

Don’t forget about the new AXSR. I believe it has a SFP, unlike the AXMC which has a LFP, but don’t quote me on that. I’d assume that would help with the pierced primer issues.

I’m assuming the AXSA your friend had was a pre-2014 with LFP? If I remember correctly Frank said getting AI barrels specifically for your action rather than prefit barrels fixes the problem of pierced primers.

Sorry I can’t help on the MRAD vs. AI debate. Interested to hear what others have to say.

I can see the merit of the MRAD in comparison, if you want long action options. If you're primarily in it for short action, it's an easy win for AI.

Sounds like your mind is made up and you're just looking for confirmation bias.

AI released a SFP bolt for the AXMC, seems like a response to me.

See below link for a recent response from someone that owned both.

264win said:

I know this has been discussed in years past, but would like to hear some thoughts from owners of these rifles now.


I have been an AI fan for 15 years. Owned an AIAE mk 2, mk 3, AW, AT, and liked them all. Zero complaints, zero issues of any kind over thousands of rounds.
Recently I have spent some time trying help a few buddies dial in an axsa and axmc. After after fighting pierced primers and heavy bolt lift and other signs of high pressure ( with quality factory ammo across several calibers ) and a lot of bs we eventually wound up sending the bolts and firing pins in to be bushed and reshaped. After doing more research, I see this is pretty common. I Would expect this on a $800 RPR but not on a $7k AI.

This has me researching other options and The MRAD seems like a possibility.
A few things I have noticed:

The Mrad can found 1-2k cheaper than the AXMC
caliber changes cost about the same for either
same caliber barrel changes cost less for the AI
the AI has more stock adjustments
AI has more aftermarket support and name recognition/ cool factor
barrel swaps are faster on the Mrad
mrad is American made and designed

What have I missed ?
Anyone who has been running an mrad for a while, what Is your take ?

Click to expand...

It takes me much longer to swap barrels on the MRAD. Perhaps there is a shortcut I'm to dumb to figure out. MRAD mags are very nice. I've bought anew bolt for each caliber so I don't have to swap bolt faces.

richthe1 said:

Don’t forget about the new AXSR. I believe it has a SFP, unlike the AXMC which has a LFP, but don’t quote me on that. I’d assume that would help with the pierced primer issues.

I’m assuming the AXSA your friend had was a pre-2014 with LFP? If I remember correctly Frank said getting AI barrels specifically for your action rather than prefit barrels fixes the problem of pierced primers.

Sorry I can’t help on the MRAD vs. AI debate. Interested to hear what others have to say.

Click to expand...

Lol, tell that to guys that had factory ae 260s blanking primers at 2700fps.

264win said:

Also I kinda have a bad taste from the AXMC issues and AIs lack of response to what is now a well documented issue.

Click to expand...

Hi,

So why even make a thread of this vs that?
Is your bad taste going to be washed out by SOMEONE else's opinions?

Sincerely,
Theis

Axmc or go be poor somewhere else

@TheGerman

Op why not just wait for @THEIS hoplite rifles?

The only upside to the AI's are that there seem to be people who can spin up barrels for them whereas for the MRAD you are buying a whole new kit when you need a new barrel, from Barrett. This would only concern me if the MRAD didn't catch on and Barrett would stop making them and move onto something else; but with the SOCOM contract, that seems very unlikely.

Bolt lift on an AI also seems to be a little lighter/easier but not by much. I think this has something to do with the spring they use and the length of the 'one size fits all' bolt.

For reference, I went through school and deployed with the G22, which is a AIAW. As soon as I got sick of buying and building a custom gun for every caliber, I had a chance to try the AI's and the MRAD and went straight with the MRAD after.

As for aftermarket, there's nothing really you can get for the AI that isn't due to it being AI specific that you can't get for the MRAD. Instead of all the inerations of bipod attachments and spigots and stock skins and shit, the MRAD has the same modularity as far as having forend rails for accessories and attachment points for a bipod or tripod. The only thing that annoyed me was the big empty spot under the rear stock where you needed a gigantic rear bag to fill, but they now have a bag rider insert for that.

To add to what Lowlight has shared, they absolutely would not sell standalone barrel extensions. It was their barrels or bust. “But what if I want a different twist?” No such luck!

ohiofarmer said:

To add to what Lowlight has shared, they absolutely would not sell standalone barrel extensions. It was their barrels or bust. “But what if I want a different twist?” No such luck!

Click to expand...

Yep. This is the biggest downside, and you have to buy the full kit each time (barrel, barrel bag, bolt head, magazine).

Never looked into it, but I'm betting with the AI, if you wanted it chambered in some weird ass wildcat round, you could find someone to make it whereas with the MRAD, you better like the calibers they make. Unless .mil adopts new calibers, the list won't grow.

lowlight said:

So I guess the MRAD is not better for someone who likes the idea of caliber changes

The whole point of a switch caliber rifle is to switch calibers at will, if you can't get the parts, what is the point

Might as well get a 98Bravo

Click to expand...

It has enough calibers. The only downside is if you want to shoot what it doesn't have. It switches them just fine and includes 90%+ of what people here shoot/reload for. Also, you don't hear it having any of the issues the OP is mentioning.

Sure, it doesn't have 8mm Mauser or some odd wildcats or whatever. But its no secret what calibers it does/doesn't have.

I shoot almost all of them and have yet to have a 'why didn't I get an AI' moment.


eta - it also doesnt have an upside down buttplate

264win said:

barrel swaps are faster on the Mrad


Anyone who has been running an mrad for a while, what Is your take ?

Click to expand...

Caliber changes are faster on the AI. I do not know how long it takes to install an AXMC mag well adapter if going from long to short, but an MRAD change involves changing the bolt head and then loosening the two clamp screws, which are torqued to 135 in/lbs or more, and installing the replacement the same. It is a much more involved process on the MRAD. It is also worth noting, however, that the MRAD is cheaper for the first cross-family caliber change that requires a different bolt face. AI short of buys down the higher bolt cost with cheaper barrels.

I had an MRAD and now have an AXSA. MRAD was a great gun, but I did not like only having a long action. Both have been equally accurate and repeatable.

No on mentions it, but one possible advantage to the MRAD is in the barrel extension system with included bolt head. There really are not any prefits, it is like having each barrel fitted to your rifle.

TheGerman said:

Bolt lift on an AI also seems to be a little lighter/easier but not by much. I think this has something to do with the spring they use and the length of the 'one size fits all' bolt.

Click to expand...

Bolt lift on the AI is better, but bolt closure on MRAD was much lighter as there was no camming of the bolt stem off the receiver like on the AI.

plenty of smiths can spin up a barrel for an axmc or axsa for cheaper than the list AI / win tac prices

MRAD isn’t the prettiest gun I own, but is the only one I would never get rid of.

With a dedicated torque wrench the barrel change takes about a minute. Takes me longer to swap bolt faces.

Barrett is now offering barrel makers kits, essentially the extension. Theoretically you can have any competent smith spin up a barrel for you now. I haven’t done it, I don’t know anyone else that has yet from asking in the MRAD forum.

Personally I think the trigger is a little sloppy and the gun is too heavy. But it shoots.

I don’t know anything about AIs.

Barrett is selling 'barrel kits' that includes a bolt head and extension now so you can have a Smith spin you up anything you want.

They definitely effed up on early adoption by not offering caliber choices, then they offered choices but they were stupid expensive.

Then they wouldn't sell the extensions, I asked, a couple times. Now they do.

It's not a bad option today, but fuck me if they couldn't have been where they are today like 8yrs ago

308 Kit "C"

264win said:

This is a very valid criticism, but to be fair an AI barrel is $800.00 +

Click to expand...

To be fair you can get AI barrels for less than $800. Proof steel barrels are $650 and eurooptic has some even less I paid $599.00 for my AIAX 6.5CM barrel.

LawnMM said:

Barrett is selling 'barrel kits' that includes a bolt head and extension now so you can have a Smith spin you up anything you want.

They definitely effed up on early adoption by not offering caliber choices, then they offered choices but they were stupid expensive.

Then they wouldn't sell the extensions, I asked, a couple times. Now they do.

It's not a bad option today, but fuck me if they couldn't have been where they are today like 8yrs ago

308 Kit "C"

Click to expand...

Holy shit thats awesome.

First I've seen that.

I just picked up an AXMC and am curious, has anyone ever seen the "Conversion kits" that contain all the items needed for a caliber change? I have only seen the individual components.

I own a MRAD, tack driver, reliable and runs very good. I was all over the AI gotta have here this past week. But changed my mind, building my own.

Can’t see that an AI is just that much more over Barrett, might be wrong. There are plenty of caliber conversions for MRAD now, simple easy and all In one..

bunny too said:

I just picked up an AXMC and am curious, has anyone ever seen the "Conversion kits" that contain all the items needed for a caliber change? I have only seen the individual components.

Click to expand...

EO gets complete bolt assemblies and magazine adapters in all the time (they just sell out quickly, as I’m sure MH does as well). As for a complete kit (barrel, Mag adapter, and complete bolt), I’ve never seen it as a package deal from a distributor. They do pop up in the PX like once every 6 - 12 months though. Usually when someone is selling an MC and a buyer asks to just buy the SA kit from them.

M8541Reaper said:

EO gets complete bolt assemblies and magazine adapters in all the time (they just sell out quickly, as I’m sure MH does as well). As for a complete kit (barrel, Mag adapter, and complete bolt), I’ve never seen it as a package deal from a distributor. They do pop up in the PX like once every 6 - 12 months though. Usually when someone is selling an MC and a buyer asks to just buy the SA kit from them.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply.

bunny too said:

Thank you for the reply.

Click to expand...

NP. If you haven't already, you might want to get setup with email notifications for the AXSR magazines, that way you can ditch the need for the MC's mag adapter and just run the AXSR mags with short caliber rounds (the mags have a built in spacer so they are actually the same size as the LA mags). That will take one thing off of the conversion kit list for ya. But, I'm going to bet my kid's College fund that these other heathens are also that list and plan on buying stacks of em as soon as they get the "in stock" notice. #PaysToBeAWinner

264win said:

Recently I have spent some time trying help a few buddies dial in an axsa and axmc. After after fighting pierced primers and heavy bolt lift and other signs of high pressure ( with quality factory ammo across several calibers ) and a lot of bs we eventually wound up sending the bolts and firing pins in to be bushed and reshaped. After doing more research, I see this is pretty common. I Would expect this on a $800 RPR but not on a $7k AI.

Click to expand...

What calibers were you shooting? The AXSA should be SFP unless built prior to 2015. My AT has NEVER had an issue in either the 6mm or 6.5 Creedmoor calibers I shoot. This is true regardless of whether the ammo uses small or large rifle primers. Never had an issue with pressure signs either.

Can't say much about my AXMC since it is configured for 338 LM. If AI ever gives us a magazine for short action cartridges, I could try using a caliber with small primers to see if a LFP would cause an issue as it is my understanding that all AXMCs are large firing pin. I know mine is.

I can't tell you anything about the Barrett other than the poor experience in trying to get my M82A1 repaired. It was not a pleasant experience working with them. After it was fixed, I sold it and said no more Barretts

One thing you have to keep in mind is that the AXMC was designed to be a go to war sniper rifle and shoot 338, 300, and 308. It was never designed to shoot high pressure rounds that have piercing issues, and a thicker firing pin is a stronger more reliable firing pin. Regardless, AI remedied this by releasing a SFP AXMC 308 bolt and it works. They can be a little tricky to find in stock, but it's the solution to the problem.

It's debatable which caliber swap is faster, both can be very fast, but to do the AI right it takes a few minutes. When done right though, the POI is 100% repeatable though, unlike the MRAD. You can literally pull the barrel off the AI shot to shot and put 10 rounds through a little ragged hole, try doing that with an MRAD.

Barrel and other accessory support between the two also don't compare. You can find a ton of AINA barrel options on the shelf in different colors, and calibers. Plus you have companies like Proof making barrels and just about any gunsmith out there. Proof makes MRAD barrels too but they only offer carbon fiber, the selection is more limited, and they cost about twice as much.

Overall the AI is a higher quality feeling and better made rifle. This is evident just by running the bolt and messing with the stock features.

MRAD's are great rifles and are obviously extremely reliable, but the AI is the better platform between the two. MRAD would definitely be my second choice for a multi caliber system though.

redneckbmxer24 said:

You can literally pull the barrel off the AI shot to shot and put 10 rounds through a little ragged hole, try doing that with an MRAD.

Click to expand...

You can, and it does. The repeatability between the two is the same when caliber changes are properly, consistently executed.

I actually got less POI shift moving between different barrels on the MRAD, but don't see much advantage in it as you going to adjust anyway.

Otherwise agreed on the AI feeling like a more refined system.

Got both, love both. The AI is more refined.

I can’t really comment on the original question but I would like to take the opportunity to vent about my experience with AI.

I pre ordered the AXSR FDE 300 win mag in October of 2019...at the time I was told to expect the rifle by end of fall 2019.

I have a trail of emails from AINA basically just pushing out the delivery by a couple months every quarter or so. basically, you’ll get it when you get it attitude”

If AINA customer service or their ability to meet a commitment is any indication of the support I’ll get once I have my $8k rifle from them, I’m already starting to regret the purchase.

Lukeshoot85 said:

I can’t really comment on the original question but I would like to take the opportunity to vent about my experience with AI.

I pre ordered the AXSR FDE 300 win mag in October of 2019...at the time I was told to expect the rifle by end of fall 2019.

I have a trail of emails from AINA basically just pushing out the delivery by a couple months every quarter or so. basically, you’ll get it when you get it attitude”

If AINA customer service or their ability to meet a commitment is any indication of the support I’ll get once I have my $8k rifle from them, I’m already starting to regret the purchase.

Click to expand...

Did you order thru Eurooptic or Mile High? These rifles have been being delivered if I'm not mistaken. AI is an amazing product, I'm sure you won't regret the purchase once you have the rifle in hand.

Mile High. And they’ve been extremely helpful, nothing but good things to say about MHSA.
And actually, MHSA said pretty much the same thing, “you’ll love it when you get it”.

just frustrating how AI has kept pushing it out every quarter since Q4 2019.

Lukeshoot85 said:

Mile High. And they’ve been extremely helpful, nothing but good things to say about MHSA.
And actually, MHSA said pretty much the same thing, “you’ll love it when you get it”.

just frustrating how AI has kept pushing it out every quarter since Q4 2019.

Click to expand...

Lol ask the Lefty's how long they have been waiting for left handed bolts

Huskydriver said:

Lol ask the Lefty's how long they have been waiting for left handed bolts

Click to expand...

Yea but it’s their fault for being wrong-handed.

mgrs said:

You can, and it does. The repeatability between the two is the same when caliber changes are properly, consistently executed.

I actually got less POI shift moving between different barrels on the MRAD, but don't see much advantage in it as you going to adjust anyway.

Otherwise agreed on the AI feeling like a more refined system.

Click to expand...

This.

People who are getting POI shifts are either not torquing the barrel screws correctly or are putting the new barrel on with the gun horizontal to the ground instead of vertical with the bore pointing up at the sky and having the barrel shift/angle itself forward slightly.

M8541Reaper said:

Yea but it’s their fault for being wrong-handed.

Click to expand...

Lukeshoot85 said:

Mile High. And they’ve been extremely helpful, nothing but good things to say about MHSA.
And actually, MHSA said pretty much the same thing, “you’ll love it when you get it”.

just frustrating how AI has kept pushing it out every quarter since Q4 2019.

Click to expand...

Long Range 338 said:

Did you order thru Eurooptic or Mile High? These rifles have been being delivered if I'm not mistaken. AI is an amazing product, I'm sure you won't regret the purchase once you have the rifle in hand.

Click to expand...

I also have an AXSR on order since April. And like you, have been told the same thing every time I check in with AINA. Also, I have noticed in a different thread that Scott stated the 300WM would be shipping NLT August of 2020. With that being said, I've only seen the Elite Sand version. It is highly frustrating since EO has had over 7K of my money for several months. (I have thought about getting a refund and putting it back in my bank to accrue interest but just decided to leave it there.) However, EO has been great to work with and has been extremely helpful. It's not the fault of the distributors. I'm sure COVID has had a significant impact on production but it is still frustrating. Hunting season is right around the corner and I am desperately awaiting delivery so I can work up loads etc.

It's gotten to the point that I check their site daily. I just hope all this wait will be worth it in the end.

LeftyJason said:

@TheGerman

Op why not just wait for @THEIS hoplite rifles?

Click to expand...

Wasn't that a scam?

CEO10KaDAY said:

Wasn't that a scam?

Click to expand...

Dude check the dates. 3 years and 3 days ago.

LeftyJason said:

Dude check the dates. 3 years and 3 days ago.

Click to expand...

Haha my bad. These guys are talking about the same question I have right now though, at least I used the search function.

M8541Reaper said:

Yea but it’s their fault for being wrong-handed.

Click to expand...

Be careful... I'm a lefty!

As the saying goes...."everyone in the world is born right handed but only the greatest can overcome it!"

LOL!

Huskydriver said:

Lol ask the Lefty's how long they have been waiting for left handed bolts

Click to expand...

The last time AI made left handed rifles was like 7 years ago. My guess is probably the same for bolts.

Got two AI rifles. A older AW (right handed one) and a AIAT. 4 different barrels on the guns... never had a issue with pierced primers or hard bolt lift. AW has only had 308win barrels on it. The AIAT is a lefty and has a 308win barrel and a 6.5CM barrel on it. No issues with handloads or box ammo in either gun.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels