Having a heck of a time trying to decide between these two options. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
- Thread starter WarriorPoet19
- Start date
Let me start by saying I have zero experience with the Zenith, which is a licensed copy of the MP-5, made in Turkey on German machinery. I do have quite a number of rounds through both an MP-5 and MP-5K in the distant past. Enjoyed every minute of it, too.
The MP-5 family of weapons defined in the second half of the last century what an SMG should be, no doubt about it. It reigned supreme in this regard for decades. But, I'm not aware of any modern military using the MP-5 family as their first choice today.
The B&T APC 9 Pro in the full auto format is currently in use by the Swiss military as well as several other nations. The K version was recently adopted in small numbers by the Big Army. It's simply a much newer, lighter, more modular, softer shooting design than the venerable old MP-5 family of weapons.
Based on that, I'd suggest the APC9 Pro.
The MP-5 family of weapons defined in the second half of the last century what an SMG should be, no doubt about it. It reigned supreme in this regard for decades. But, I'm not aware of any modern military using the MP-5 family as their first choice today.
The B&T APC 9 Pro in the full auto format is currently in use by the Swiss military as well as several other nations. The K version was recently adopted in small numbers by the Big Army. It's simply a much newer, lighter, more modular, softer shooting design than the venerable old MP-5 family of weapons.
Based on that, I'd suggest the APC9 Pro.
We use MP5s on duty... I also had a Zenith SBR that I ran suppressed and never cleaned once. They run like sewing machines, have no recoil, silly accurate, and just incredible machines. I went with a LWRC SMG this time around only because the MP5 is dated and I wanted something new, but there is no denying how wonderful the MP5s (and its variants) are, and how well a good clone runs. My buddies shop (D3 LLC) makes the MP5SD clones, and those are absolutely incredible if you dont mind two stamps (I dont know if they have a pistol version).
Id go with the Zenith or other MP5 clone personally, but I just cant get into the new SMGs like the B&T, Scorpion, Sig etc.
Id go with the Zenith or other MP5 clone personally, but I just cant get into the new SMGs like the B&T, Scorpion, Sig etc.
I believe the mp5 should have smoother recoil. The mp5 uses a roller back system versus the bt using blow back. I had an apc 45 and it wasn’t light on the recoil for a 45 smg.
On the other hand the bt has much better ergonomics. You should be able to learn to manipulate it much faster than the mp5.
All being said I would take the bt apc pro. The quality on the bt guns are second to none. Excellent machining work by the Swiss. I still own a bt kh9, and it's one of the coolest guns i own.
On the other hand the bt has much better ergonomics. You should be able to learn to manipulate it much faster than the mp5.
All being said I would take the bt apc pro. The quality on the bt guns are second to none. Excellent machining work by the Swiss. I still own a bt kh9, and it's one of the coolest guns i own.
I just went through all this and ended up with a Kriss Vector. More than I wanted to spend on a 9mm but it's solid and I like the action a lot. Decent trigger for too. Feels real comfortable shouldered.
Thank you all for the feedback. I greatly appreciate it.
I think if you are going for cool factor the MP5 will always win, it is just so damned iconic. Function wise I think the B&T might be a little better only because it has some newer m ore desirable features to it.
Is this a range toy? If so the MP5 is the clear choice.
I have an early zenith import that is great.
I have an early zenith import that is great.
MP5/10mm is the answer. If stuck on 9mm I'd get the APC tho, B&T rocks.
I've had the PTR version of the MP5 and sold it within 6 months. I had owned a true HK94 many many years ago and the memories of it are clearly better than reality. The PTR just didn't live up to my expectations in recoil and shooting feel. I like the look and design and keep thinking of trying again but so far holding off.
Recently got a 10mm Kriss Vector and had a blast shooting it. No, it's not light recoil, but its fine with the brace. And lots of fun with my TiRant 45M on the end of it. It was $1380 for the SDP Enhanced version in FDE.
Recently got a 10mm Kriss Vector and had a blast shooting it. No, it's not light recoil, but its fine with the brace. And lots of fun with my TiRant 45M on the end of it. It was $1380 for the SDP Enhanced version in FDE.
What loads you running in it? I dont know why more companies aint making 10mm SMGs.
I just got one too in 9mm and it has damn near zero recoil. Followup shots group tight, real tight with really no effort. I JUST got done writing up a review on it, read if you like and PM me with questions if you have any.
It's novel, it's not a gimmick so it is a solid weapon, however, it's not for everyone. I wanted a non-AR, something fun, a host for some shit I had laying around. IF I were to get a 9mm SBR for serious shit I'd probably go with APC 9. Or the Stribog A3 for a budget friendly option (it rated really well alongside the APC 9 in those trials). But I'm happy with the Kriss.
Never fired any HK clone that came close to the real thing. If you want one of those, HK makes a version of the SP89 now but it won't accept a can and you can't change the forearm I don't think, so caveat emptor. Some of the clones with the 3 lug adapter won't actually accept a can, so keep that in mind too.
So far just some cheap American Eagle 180 gr since it's rated at only 1030, so still subsonic.
Oh, one more thing on the HK clones - PTR says using a suppressor on their firearms will void the warranty. I didn't know that when I had bought mine but now I'll stay away from their products due to that alone.
I believe they are taking care of the guy around which that specific claim originated unless they screwed the pooch again.
Not fully on topic, but a local guy just got an APC223 and I shot a few rounds with it, this past weekend. I dont shoot a lot of AR or AR type rifles but man, that was a smooth gun. Recoil was close to zero, and the trigger felt good. If the APC9 is anything like it, it should be a good choice.
I have an APC9 (first gen) and am looking to replace it with an mp5 clone. The trigger, ergonomics, machining quality, weight, and ease of disassembly on the APC9 are better, but after shooting my friend's MP5 clone suppressed the softer recoil, minimal noise, and look convinced me to get a different range toy. For reliability, go with the APC9
- Nov 3, 2010
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Always wanted an MP5 until I bought one. It was an Omega reverse stretch. Don’t get me wrong it was a cool gun and nothing was wrong it but the cool factor of the MP5SD I had shot previously just wasn’t there. Maybe I expected too much but I prefer my AR platform 9mmSBR
- Nov 3, 2010
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Lrbho would be the only thing I would do different with my AR9 build. I built it 7 or so years ago as well and it uses Colt pattern uzi mags. Thought about upgrading to glock compatible BUT don’t want another SBR 9mm gun. If I did a pistol build maybe. The MP5 doesn’t have lrbho so if that is a feature you like consider that in your decision
I have a Z5RS and enjoy the hell out of it. The sights were dead on out of the box and the only malfunction occurred while shooting up the last of my crappy Blazer, aluminum-cased, 115 gr. The recoil is very soft and the gun is easy to control and keep on target.
I had no idea they were commanding those prices these days! I don't think you will regret getting one at all, just too much fun.
I have not shot any B&T firearms for comparison.
I had no idea they were commanding those prices these days! I don't think you will regret getting one at all, just too much fun.
I have not shot any B&T firearms for comparison.
Your dealer's price is a fantastic deal! I paid about $100 more than that when I picked mine up from Atlantic three years ago. Good luck.
zenith importation has always been sporadic. They have to fill their military contracts first and we get the leftovers. I recently spoke with Atlantic Firearms and they said there is no consistent rhyme or reason of when they will come in. They seem to get POF s more often, but people complain about fit and finish as they are rack grade condition for their military contracts as well.
I'm an 02 SOT. Bought a Zenith Z5RS, replaced the brace with an HK slider, replaced the plastic rail with an MLOK and the trigger pack with an SEF. I have 8K rounds through it suppressed with a Liberty Centurion. Runs flawless and quiet. By far everyone's favorite.
Nice.
Did you convert it to select fire or is it a semi trigger pack in a SEF housing?
Not quite what you are asking, but I have an HK94 to MP5 conversion as well as a B&T APC9K. The MP5 is cool, but I’d keep the B&T if I had to let one go.
Just out of curiosity, have you considered the B&T GHM9? The GHM9 is a gun I intend to get next April, and it is a modular gun, wherewith a $700 kit, you can extend (out to 16") or shorten it if you need to, plus it'll soon be able to take glock mags too. I feel the customization options are so much more with this gun. Here are some pics of it extended, it's base pistol length, the Carbine pistol, and the glock conversion.
Attachments
Well, they also void the warranty if you shoot it suppressed. I didn't know that the time but it's another reason I'm glad i got rid of it.
the posts I had read, which I cannot reference and will understand if you don't take without proof, had a statement from the company that any suppressor use voided warranty. I bet if the reason for the warranty claim couldn't easily be traced to suppressor use then they probably had no justification to deny them. in any case, pretty sketchy to sell threaded barrel pistol, not make any statements in manual or elsewhere that a different locking piece is required for suppressor use, and then void warranty if it's shot suppressed.
I agree with you and will not buy a PTR, but I've read the email and their recanted statement. They cover their 9CT suppressed as is and 9KT suppressed with the 80 degree piece.
thanks for that clarifying info, I was unaware of that. Still won't buy one 
I love the original APC9
I know that I am very late to the party but i wanted to ask you where you got the information that the swiss army uses the B&T APC9 pro?
Thanks for answering and clearing that up
This thread is a little old, but I'll add my thoughts for anyone who's looking to info before purchasing.
I have had the original APC9 for about half a year now after previously owning a CZ Scorpion.
To start B&T's craftsmanship is just superb. The fit and finish is top notch, with a bolt that feels about as smooth as the slide on my 2011. Which is why it is such a downer when you come back from a range session strip it down and remember...oh yeah, its blowback...and its just filthy inside. To be fair it does seem to run noticeably cleaner than other blowback carbines like the CZ or a Beretta Storm (which I hate btw). However, it is a shame that it is not roller delayed or piston driven, which rolls into my next point. If you are expecting this gun to run as smoothly as a MP5, its not. I do not feel that it is difficult to control in rapid fire drills, though, it feels like there is a sweet spot in there (maybe to do with the buffer).
For what it gives up in it's recoil impulse compared to the mp5/clones it definitely has better ergonomics. Well designed ambi controls make this simply a faster gun to manipulate. After playing with the APC Pro I feel that I actually prefer the reciprocating charging handle and do not feel that it gets in the way running it on either side. The other tweaks allowing for more AR15 parts compatibility are certainly welcome. The trigger that came in my gun is pretty damn good. Its a good single stage AR trigger, a bit of a spongy break but with a fairly short reset.
I do not really care for the magazines. They seem to be durable enough, but simply do not live up to the craftsmanship of the rest of the gun. Glock mag lowers are available if you're into that. To be fair they have not given me any problems but they are not on the same level as something like a Lancer mag. Although, I am keeping my fingers crossed that they will make some.
Aside from that, my gun has been boringly reliable with all ammo I have fed it (all weights, bullet types and reloads). Accuracy is on par or better than it's peers. It has been an excellent gun and I'm looking forward to taking a class with it in the next month. Should also be fun to hunt hogs with at night when I move back down south.
Don't buy this if you really just want an MP5, but if you're open to a bit more exotic smg type gun I think you will be extremely pleased with the APC line. If you've made it this far into my blathering I appreciate your time and hope this helped you!
I have had the original APC9 for about half a year now after previously owning a CZ Scorpion.
To start B&T's craftsmanship is just superb. The fit and finish is top notch, with a bolt that feels about as smooth as the slide on my 2011. Which is why it is such a downer when you come back from a range session strip it down and remember...oh yeah, its blowback...and its just filthy inside. To be fair it does seem to run noticeably cleaner than other blowback carbines like the CZ or a Beretta Storm (which I hate btw). However, it is a shame that it is not roller delayed or piston driven, which rolls into my next point. If you are expecting this gun to run as smoothly as a MP5, its not. I do not feel that it is difficult to control in rapid fire drills, though, it feels like there is a sweet spot in there (maybe to do with the buffer).
For what it gives up in it's recoil impulse compared to the mp5/clones it definitely has better ergonomics. Well designed ambi controls make this simply a faster gun to manipulate. After playing with the APC Pro I feel that I actually prefer the reciprocating charging handle and do not feel that it gets in the way running it on either side. The other tweaks allowing for more AR15 parts compatibility are certainly welcome. The trigger that came in my gun is pretty damn good. Its a good single stage AR trigger, a bit of a spongy break but with a fairly short reset.
I do not really care for the magazines. They seem to be durable enough, but simply do not live up to the craftsmanship of the rest of the gun. Glock mag lowers are available if you're into that. To be fair they have not given me any problems but they are not on the same level as something like a Lancer mag. Although, I am keeping my fingers crossed that they will make some.
Aside from that, my gun has been boringly reliable with all ammo I have fed it (all weights, bullet types and reloads). Accuracy is on par or better than it's peers. It has been an excellent gun and I'm looking forward to taking a class with it in the next month. Should also be fun to hunt hogs with at night when I move back down south.
Don't buy this if you really just want an MP5, but if you're open to a bit more exotic smg type gun I think you will be extremely pleased with the APC line. If you've made it this far into my blathering I appreciate your time and hope this helped you!
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