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ELR World Records

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Sandow the Heretic

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Aug 8, 2017
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We have had requests from a number of FCSA members to start recognising ELR distance records. We began with a record shot by Corbin Shell that was witnessed by a number of FCSA members and we all agreed that it deserved formal recognition. As we discussed a framework for the rules that we would implement for such records, it became known to us that another David Tubb had set a record months ago and had similarly not received the formal recognition that he deserved. Both of these shooters made shots in good faith that they were setting records. While it is an imperfect solution to a problem that there does not seem to be a single correct answer for, we are going to acknowledge the achievements in the order in which they were brought to our attention. We will be setting the bar at the furthest distance either has achieved and releasing the rules once they have been finalized in a few days. Please congratulate David and Corbin on the record setting shots they made.

-Alex

7047223
7047224
 
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Sandow
What were the two records for for those of us not familiar with them?
One shot hits? Coldbore? Farthest distance?
Ken Eng is a FCSA member and he hit 7/10 at 2054 yards in front of 10+ witnesses but the gong was round not square so less total area.
FCSA members Brett Berger and Bob Pohl you might know as well have done it as well at 2054 yards in large gatherings.
And we are holding a 3K match in a month how do we get recognition if someone makes a hit at 3K?
 
David
So we need to shoot 3 shot groups?
I am just not understanding what qualifies as a record
Your target looks smaller than ours and ours is round not square.
We are holding a 3K match and if we can make it a record attempt we should give it a try.
 
We are hashing out the last of the fine details for the rules but essentially, 3 consecutive hits starting from cold bore on a 36" square.

-Alex
 
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No, we are changing quite a bit to make it easier to run events and to put the burden of determining records on the match director. They are the ones that are there to witness it which is why NRA and FCSA match records are set up that way. The FCSA ends up more or less as record keeping.

-Alex
 
So if we take our three practice shots on a square gong we are good to go it sounds like?
And this is out of the truck cold not fired at shorter gongs or practice targets first?
 
Actually, the rules we are working on allow the first 3 shots of a match string to also be used for records provided they are shot cold bore. The cool down periods we are leaning toward are short enough that a match can have multiple rounds of attempts in a single day but long enough that conditions are still bound to change in the interval.

-Alex
 
Sandow the Heretic said:
We have had requests from a number of FCSA members to start recognising ELR distance records. We began with a record shot by Corbin Shell that was witnessed by a number of FCSA members and we all agreed that it deserved formal recognition. As we discussed a framework for the rules that we would implement for such records, it became known to us that another David Tubb had set a record months ago and had similarly not received the formal recognition that he deserved. Both of these shooters made shots in good faith that they were setting records. While it is an imperfect solution to a problem that there does not seem to be a single correct answer for, we are going to acknowledge the achievements in the order in which they were brought to our attention. We will be setting the bar at the furthest distance either has achieved and releasing the rules once they have been finalized in a few days. Please congratulate David and Corbin on the record setting shots they made.

-Alex

View attachment 7047223View attachment 7047224
Click to expand...

Hi Alex,

How is it that Shell got a record at a shorter distance after Tubbs already had the record
 
Sandow
Finalize the rules before our April 27th match and we will ask Oscar if we can give it a go.
So far we have very few hits at 2054 yards on the first shot of our 3 shot practice sessions. Once we hold a match and shoot a second match it is much more common.
 
Hoffer said:
Hi Alex,

How is it that Shell got a record at a shorter distance after Tubbs already had the record
Click to expand...

Yeah... Not a great situation to have to deal with. Ultimately both made their attempts in good faith that they were setting a record. David ended up getting his record denied but was never told. Months later he was told by a third party at the Arena event where Corbin shot his record. Recognizing both seemed like the right thing to do because they were both effected by the same circumstances. We are trying to do what is right for everyone involved and that was the best solution we could come up with.

-Alex
 
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Lynn Jr said:
Sandow
Finalize the rules before our April 27th match and we will ask Oscar if we can give it a go.
So far we have very few hits at 2054 yards on the first shot of our 3 shot practice sessions. Once we hold a match and shoot a second match it is much more common.
Click to expand...

I suspect it will be pretty soon. The iterative changes from version to version are quite small now which it why we felt ok with recognizing David and Corbin's records. We knew they would both be acceptable within the framework we have solidified.

-Alex
 
Sandow the Heretic said:
Actually, the rules we are working on allow the first 3 shots of a match string to also be used for records provided they are shot cold bore. The cool down periods we are leaning toward are short enough that a match can have multiple rounds of attempts in a single day but long enough that conditions are still bound to change in the interval.

-Alex
Click to expand...
This happened at the Worlds longest shot challenge last year, formatted in a way in which it is a while before you shoot again and only one target is engaged in 5 minutes, there were two people who shot cold bore and hit 123 at 1760 and 2000. Depending on the format and amount of shooters it could be a while to shoot again so could be called a cold bore 2-3 times per shooter with in one match , we might have a lot of world records on our hands fast.
 
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We are probably going to go with a cool down period short enough to run a number of attempts in a day per shooter. The advancement of the record has been far too slow because the the old rules were too restrictive for match directors. There were what 4 events in 2 years? Nobody wanted to run an event in which they still had all the logistical hurdles of an ELR match but couldn't realistically charge a match fee to cover the costs. This is pretty much why the rules were are putting together are being worked on by match directors alone. A framework that is easy to run is a framework that gets run more often. It gives more people more chances to prove their mettle. I'd like to see us work out towards records in the 3000 yard realm before too long.

-Alex
 
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DTubb said:
search - 2200 yards

2200 yards


https://youtu.be/xTYETDqxkC8
Click to expand...
May I ask who "owns" ELR Cold Bore?
Does FCSA manage the rules and records? There seems to be some confusion elsewhere about just who should be recognizing Mr. Shell's record. Guess they didn't know that you had done it farther? Also, when your accomplishment was made known, it seems they didn't think you conformed to the rules for COF. Not enough time lapse between shots I believe is alleged.
I say sour grapes to all of that sir. Congratulations!
 
Sandow the Heretic said:
We are probably going to go with a cool down period short enough to run a number of attempts in a day per shooter. The advancement of the record has been far too slow because the the old rules were too restrictive for match directors. There were what 4 events in 2 years? Nobody wanted to run an event in which they still had all the logistical hurdles of an ELR match but couldn't realistically charge a match fee to cover the costs. This is pretty much why the rules were are putting together are being worked on by match directors alone. A framework that is easy to run is a framework that gets run more often. It gives more people more chances to prove their mettle. I'd like to see us work out towards records in the 3000 yard realm before too long.

-Alex
Click to expand...
Ah ,sounds wise . Thanks for the reply.
 
shoot4fun said:
May I ask who "owns" ELR Cold Bore?
Does FCSA manage the rules and records? There seems to be some confusion elsewhere about just who should be recognizing Mr. Shell's record. Guess they didn't know that you had done it farther? Also, when your accomplishment was made known, it seems they didn't think you conformed to the rules for COF. Not enough time lapse between shots I believe is alleged.
I say sour grapes to all of that sir. Congratulations!
Click to expand...

Pretty much anyone can certify anything in reality. It is peoples faith in a standard and the issuer that matters. It isn't like there is an ISO standard that we need to be in compliance with. ELR Central/AB has their own rules and we have ours. Ultimately, the FCSA generating rules and issuing trophies has more to do with the fact that we are about to run our first record events. Since we are a large, transparent non-profit sanctioning body, we were pretty much never going to follow a commercial entities rules to begin with and I think we told them as much two years ago at Shot Show. If the NRA had a set of rules for such things, we would simply follow that standard but in the absence of a standard from another association, we felt it was best for our matches and our shooters to go our own way.

-Alex
 
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Shoot4fun
Did you used to campaign a 300 Weatherby in 1000 yard Benchrest?
 
Sandow the Heretic said:
Pretty much anyone can certify anything in reality. It is peoples faith in a standard and the issuer that matters. It isn't like there is an ISO standard that we need to be in compliance with. ELR Central/AB has their own rules and we have ours. Ultimately, the FCSA generating rules and issuing trophies has more to do with the fact that we are about to run our first record events. Since we are a large, transparent non-profit sanctioning body, we were pretty much never going to follow a commercial entities rules to begin with and I think we told them as much two years ago at Shot Show. If the NRA had a set of rules for such things, we would simply follow that standard but in the absence of a standard from another association, we felt it was best for our matches and our shooters to go our own way.

-Alex
Click to expand...
FCSA has been around and does seem to have credibility. I wish them well with the ELR events. I have the itch to try some ELR shooting and have a good friend with the right location and a 375 Cheytac. Hmmm.
 
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