Go to Prefits?

Hey there,
PVA offers both cut and button rifled barrels if I remember correctly. However, I am of the opinion that it does not matter. I've used both and notice absolutely zero difference in performance, be it velocity, accuracy, or maintenance, I honestly can't tell the difference between cut/button rifled. Maybe more experienced shooters can, but I can't, so I always just get the less expensive option lol.

For pre-fits, PVA is my preferred, only because I know the guys at PVA are perfectionists, and that means you can rely on getting a PERFECTLY chambered barrel. I have very limited experience with X-caliber and Criterion, but from what I've seen they shoot just fine. It's more of a matter of quality control (hence the inconsistent reviews you may have read about some barrel manufacturers). All of them can make excellent barrels, but the chamber work from PVA is guaranteed to be excellent, and I like that!

As for contour, I find myself drifting towards the heavier contours for match rifles, and really light contours for hunting, not so much the in-between contours. I used to want one rifle that could do it all, but now I'm realizing that I'm not happy with any compromises, so now I prefer one rifle for each job lol.

What do you want to do with it? Marksman contour is actually my favorite for a match/range rifle, it's pretty similar to Heavy Palma, which is kinda similar to M24 contour. M24 is the heaviest I'd ever go. If you do want a "do-it-all" contour, I had a medium palma/remington varmint that was pretty nice.

PVA button rifle prefits are excellent (I have three) but is not the only option. Take a look at the bugnut from bugholes.com (I have one and is awesome)

Stay with cut rifling if there is even a remote chance you may want to shoot cast bullets some day.

To me the options have either been NSS criterion or PVA. There is a guy in Watertown, SD (Sin Arms) turning out nice prefits with Brux cut rifled barrels for remage, savage, tikka, rpr, and howa. Proli will end up going with him on the next one.

Culpeper,

Polygonal strips lead from cast bullets no matter how high the Brinnell hardness is. I've loaded my cast projos that were past a BHN of 36 with a gas check, an they will still lead the bore when shooting them at 2000-2600fps Mv. A cut rifled barrel will not do that.

All,
When cutting a barrel with a Rifling Button, it does not produce button aka polygonal rifling. Glocks have polygonal look down the barrel of one then look down a std 45 ACP barrel, you'll see the diff.

Well that’s because button and polygonal are two independent things, I never would have expected a precision rifle barrel to be polygonal. I only have button barrels on my rifles and none of them are polygonal and I’ve never seen one that wasn’t for a pistol though I know there are some ar15s (not precision) with them.

I thought that the reason buttons were bad for cast lead is that they are a little more inconsistent, like a bumpy road, and those bumps are what stripped and gathered the lead. Cut being more smooth so there aren’t places for lead to strip and gather.

Greg at Southern Precision Rifles (bugholes.com) without a doubt. He has his stuff in order. Comm's are excellent, he quoted me 4 weeks on a prefit and it went out the door at 4 weeks on the dot. He seems very disciplined about his business, answering calls at certain times of the day, emails at another, and spending the rest getting work done. Only reason I mention all this is I had another prefit on order from another smith. Comms were not the best, was quoted 4-6 weeks, and got it at 18 weeks.

Now I've not actually installed it yet, but everything I've read says his work is impeccable. I mean, if you are going to name your website bugholes, you better be able to back it up.

CavScout85 said:

Greg at Southern Precision Rifles (bugholes.com) without a doubt. He has his stuff in order. Comm's are excellent, he quoted me 4 weeks on a prefit and it went out the door at 4 weeks on the dot. He seems very disciplined about his business, answering calls at certain times of the day, emails at another, and spending the rest getting work done.

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^^ It's true.

+1 for Bug-Holes. Ordered from him many time's, always good.

I have a Shilen from NSS (Jim is awesome) and two Proof prefits on TL3s, as well as a Criterion Howa prefit. They all shoot well, but the Shilen & Proofs shoot a little better that the Criterion (but I don’t think anyone is saying a factory Howa action is equivalent to a TL3, so that probably isn’t just the barrel). I got a Deviant/Bartlein barreled action (not prefit) from Bugholes. As stated above, Greg is super squared away. He was about ten days early on communicating he was done, and he seriously stands behind his work.

Having used most of the popular prefit providers, I can strongly recommend NSS and Greg at Bugholes. If NSS has a Criterion in stock in the configuration (chambering/twist/freebore/contour) you want, you can have it in a few days and it’ll probably shoot great. Greg has a little longer lead time, but more flexibility regarding the specifics and obviously has great barrel blanks to work with.

X-Caliber is one I haven’t experienced, but nothing I’ve heard makes me want to try.

Also, I don’t think prefits are inherently a compromise at all. I loctite the nuts on and treat them just like my shouldered barrels. In fact, I consider the ability to set the headspace EXACTLY how I want it a plus.

I've bought wayyyy too many barrels. Cut, button, canted rifling, left hand twist, gain twist, prefit, shouldered, fluted, carbon blah blah. I think guys have a bad habit of echoing ideas from other shooters, until we end up with this idea train, and barrels are a good example of it. After running and owning a bunch, what barrel should you get what manufaturer? ehh; most of it is good stuff.

I've got to say when you factor in financials, prefits are awesome.
My CBI 6.5 CM has been one of the best out of all the barrels i have owned
It's been accurate, consistent.
Cleans better than some cut barrels
was at my door ready to go in a few days
no months of waiting for that gunsmith to break your heart on delivery time.
I have heard folks talk about 'gambling' with some of the pre fits quality/ consistency wise, but I personally have had 5 that have all been perfect.
And a friend who has purchased and assembled rifles for folks using NSS barrels exclusively who swears by them as well.
Ultimately, I don't see too much reason to go with the high dollar barrels now a days unless the asthetic bugs you on prefits.


I just wish we had a few more choices for contours on CBI/ Shilen barrels. But my bull barrel does balance nicely.

I have it set up on a TL3 w/ a barlok. Running purposefully slow at 2550; that I run suppressed or sans a MB to 'enhance' recoil for practice. Based on pressure curve and heat potentials, I am planning on getting 4 k rounds out of it. So I call it my 6.5 trainer... 100 yd/ 805 yd

Hawk hill has prefits as well, mine has been a hammer from the beginning. Great company that Pays attention to detail

Oh how could i forget about the Bugnut from Bugholes?! That is also an excellent option! Souther Precision Rifles is excellent to work with. Highly recomend them, as highly as PVA. Both are awesome and will make you an amazing barrel.

I always think about spending big money on a bartlein or kreiger but i have always been able to get the results i am after with the the pre fits i have used. So far i have used 2 shillens and 1 xcaliber. I just ordered another xcaliber yesterday. At 340 i can buy 2 barrels to the 750 i was quoted for a bartlein shouldered barrel.

Ive got a bunch of PVA barrels and 1 that should arrive today for my nucleus. Its a cut rifled rock creek, but only bc that's the only 6.5 prefit that he had on the shelf. All my others are button barrels and they are all lazers. Ive got a prefit 6.5 PRC on the list and a MTU 16.5" .308 for a short stumpy rifle shooting subs and heavies for a bush gun. There are many prefit options but PVA is and will always be a safe choice and my go-to.

vigildom7 said:

Looks like prefits are more popular than I thought on. I've been seeing them on a lot of high actions. While I have my origin on order figured I would order up a barrel that would hopefully be in around the same time. I've used the criterion remage barrels with great luck and see NSS offers both criterion and shilen for savage thread pattern. But thought this action will need a nicer barrel. I've heard back and fourth things about Xcalibers barrels.
Looks like everyone has been going to PVA for their barrels. Using Rock Creek blanks. Has anyone seen a difference between the button rifle and cut rifle version. Is the cut rifling worth the extra money? Right Now I am debating between a PVA Marksmen contour 24in 6.5cm or a criterion 24in with a palma contour both 5/8x24 threads for a break and later a suppressor.
Or is there a better option I don't know about.
I like the prefits because I like work on my own items and already have all the tools.
let me know what you all think.
Or suggest

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I’ve been tempted to try a “high end” prefit, but when my Criterion 8” twist 22-250 Light Varmint routinely does this, it’s difficult to look elsewhere. This is five 75gr Amaxes at 100 yards with scope dialed from zero to max elevation and back to zero between every shot. Says much for the Nightforce SHV F1 too...

John

Quality pre-fits like several we have seen from Bugholes have been performing very well. Really impressive cold or after a hot string. Definitely a viable option for a lot of shooters.

DrainTheSwamp2017 said:

. There is a guy in Watertown, SD (Sin Arms) turning out nice prefits with Brux cut rifled barrels for remage, savage, tikka, rpr, and howa. Proli will end up going with him on the next one.

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Good luck with that. Ordered and paid for a barrel from him on Jan 31st. No option to cancel order on website, never responds to email nor Facebook messages. I had to go through a dispute the charge procedure with credit card company and see today he's trying to charge me again, over 6 months later.

Of course here's a nice review if you have 36 weeks to wait for a prefit.

Mike_in_FL said:

Good luck with that. Ordered and paid for a barrel from him on Jan 31st. No option to cancel order on website, never responds to email nor Facebook messages. I had to go through a dispute the charge procedure with credit card company and see today he's trying to charge me again, over 6 months later.

Of course here's a nice review if you have 36 weeks to wait for a prefit.

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It says on his website current lead time of 16 weeks roughly on the barrels I looked at. I don’t think it’s too uncommon for one man band gun smiths to get behind at times. If he already started work on your barrel what is he supossed to do with it now? I’m not trying to fight his fights for him, I have just yet to see a bad actual product review, it’s just the long wait times when most guys get their panties in a wad and that’s with any Smith.

Gunfighter14e2 said:

Stay with cut rifling if there is even a remote chance you may want to shoot cast bullets some day.

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Does anyone shoot cast bullets out of a precision rifle?

Winny94 said:

Does anyone shoot cast bullets out of a precision rifle?

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No kidding.

Shilen makes a good one and will throat to dummies as well as open necks to whatever you spec.

I'm a fan of my Criterion 6BR prefit. It shoots groups of around 3/8ths an inch or so.

One thing to note about them is that they seem to have a tight bore. I'm shooting Berger 105 Hybrids with 30.5 grains of Varget, and my velocity is up at 2920 fps after the first 300 rounds when the barrel sped up. At first it was shooting about 2865 which is about the velocity I expected, but now it's definitely faster than most with similar powder charges.

That said, the results speak for themselves and the price is right.

DrainTheSwamp2017 said:

I’m not trying to fight his fights for him

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Yeah, I'll call bullshit on that. And you just happen to be from SD as well?

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/anyone-used-sin-arms.3902004/

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/looking-for-feedback-on-sin-arms.6821844/

I only wish I'd seen these "reviews" before I placed an order with him.

Maybe you can jump in your time machine and go back to January to tell us what his lead time was then. And since you like quoting his piece of shit website, why don't you tell me how accurate that is since you don't get a copy of any message you try to send him, you get no message acknowledging payment, etc.

When I finally got this clown to respond in May after repeated attempts at contact through his website, Facebook, and email, his story was that he should have my blank in a week or so. He never purchased anything from Brux nor anyone else, so please don't worry your pretty little head over your buddy being stuck with something he can't sell.

I contacted him again 6 weeks later, at the end of June when I still had no barrel and he was busy on Facebook again, trying to drum up work for his lathe. It's amazing how the guy can take time to advertise for more fluting work but not respond to a customer that already paid. The same guy that states a year or so earlier he's quit his job to work his gunsmithing business 100%.

I'm sorry I was too impatient for your friend. I'll just sit here and look at my new Nucleus action I waited for, and actually received.

Mike_in_FL said:

Yeah, I'll call bullshit on that. And you just happen to be from SD as well?

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/anyone-used-sin-arms.3902004/

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/looking-for-feedback-on-sin-arms.6821844/

I only wish I'd seen these "reviews" before I placed an order with him.

Maybe you can jump in your time machine and go back to January to tell us what his lead time was then. And since you like quoting his piece of shit website, why don't you tell me how accurate that is since you don't get a copy of any message you try to send him, you get no message acknowledging payment, etc.

When I finally got this clown to respond in May after repeated attempts at contact through his website, Facebook, and email, his story was that he should have my blank in a week or so. He never purchased anything from Brux nor anyone else, so please don't worry your pretty little head over your buddy being stuck with something he can't sell.

I contacted him again 6 weeks later, at the end of June when I still had no barrel and he was busy on Facebook again, trying to drum up work for his lathe. It's amazing how the guy can take time to advertise for more fluting work but not respond to a customer that already paid. The same guy that states a year or so earlier he's quit his job to work his gunsmithing business 100%.

I'm sorry I was too impatient for your friend. I'll just sit here and look at my new Nucleus action I waited for, and actually received.

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Go back and read read my first post. I said “to me the options have either been criterion or pva.” I only listed him as an option for cut rifled Brux, pva also does cut rock creek but it’s more expensive. Im willing to try someone local and if he treats me right I ll stick with him and it ll save me some shipping costs. Sorry you didn’t do any research before ordering from him.

I've only ever put on prefits due to a disorder I have, impatience. I've only used CBI or Shilen. The longest wait was 2 months for Shilen and that was due to a non-regular barrel they throated to my dummy rounds.

The Shilen was used to get 1st HM at a regional FTR comp. The Criterion has been used for several club match wins (FTR) and high placements (PRS). The last was yesterday with a 499-3?X. Match before that was 500-43X. Damn thing just shoots.

I'll echo what ThePretzel said about speeding up. My Criterion sped up about 100fps over time. Groups never changed and it cleans up super fast, even compared to the Shilen.

I have nothing but great things to say about both CBI and Shilen and plan to order 2 more (223/6 creedmoor or 6br) when my currents are done.

FYI, I've used NSS for all of them and he is more than helpful and if it's in stock you'll have it at your door in a week or less.

DrainTheSwamp2017 said:

Im willing to try someone local and if he treats me right I ll stick with him and it ll save me some shipping costs. Sorry you didn’t do any research before ordering from him.

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I'm glad I could do your research for you since you're the one who brought him up.

Cut rifle barrels from bartlien, Krieger, hawk hill and perhaps one day, K&P are the only thing I will use. Price is negligible once you factor in labor and it's foolish to start with anything but the abolsute best.

Stick with a known quantity for pre fits, LRI, PVA, SAC and the cats at mile high seem to do nice work as well. Hard to beat LRI if you can live with the limited contours and twist rates for their prefits.

Twitchy said:

FYI, I've used NSS for all of them and he is more than helpful and if it's in stock you'll have it at your door in a week or less.

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I also used NSS. Had my barrel 3 days later, which is something that was definitely a plus for me (along with the price).

Have several prefits from Shilen...zero complaints, excellent accuracy with minimal fouling. Same with McGowan. Put me on the podium in a 2000yd match with a 338.

PVA

vigildom7 said:

Just wanted to give you all an update I ordered my prefit for my origin action from hawk hill. Got lucky with a overnight turn around time. Got my barrel in way before I can expect my action ??

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Nice man. Did you get the savage prefit barrel?

I've had excellent results with prefit barrels from Pac-Nor and X-Caliber, now have a PVA due in less than a month.

holdstillplease said:

I've had excellent results with prefit barrels from Pac-Nor and X-Caliber, now have a PVA due in less than a month.

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I also have a pva barrel on order. I got a m24 6.5 creedmoor. What did you order? I’ve been patiently waiting for over a month now.

kriller134 said:

I also have a pva barrel on order. I got a m24 6.5 creedmoor. What did you order? I’ve been patiently waiting for over a month now.

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My order was June 25th, and I was told a 10-14 week turn around time. 6mm Creedmoor heavy palma.