Insurance is a Scam

The big companies have beautiful tall buildings with marble floors and fountains. Kind of like casinos.

No shit! Everyone knows that. It’s legal robbery that you are forced to take part in, kind of like taxes!

Alpine 338 said:

So today I wasted an hour of my life going over my home insurance policy with my insurance agency.

So help me understand this, because I don't.

My gold and silver coins are fully insured, but my gold and silver bullion are not. Both the coins and bullion are a Troy ounce of .999+ gold or silver, so what's it matter?

If any of my personal property is stolen from my home, it's covered or insured for full value, but if the same personal property is destroyed because the house burns down, or blows up, or is crushed in an earthquake, it's devalued and only partially insured? So what's the difference if stolen or destroyed, I'm still out?

In addition to all this home insurance crap, I was out of work all of 2020, and all of this year so far, so I'm not driving as much, have a credit rating in the 800's, no claims in almost 10-years, but my auto insurance has gone up.

Plus, this week marks one year that UPS lost a fully insured barrel blank, and I'm still fighting with them about the claim. Every time I call them, it's like ground hog day, and have to go over everything with them.

This shit is getting old.

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I'd be very surprised if your coins were fully insured. Unless you're taking out a floater policy on specific coins money will have a sublimity just like gold/jewelry, likely a lower one as well.

Valuation shouldn't change with cause of loss either (although some sublimits only apply in case of theft).

Most people don't have $10k in camera equipment or lots of gold and wouldn't want to pay for a risk they don't have, so they put the sublimits in to keep prices down. I'm not going to pay for the risk of a $10k camera getting lifted from a car if I don't have one. Stealing $10k in t-shirts and cookware is a lot harder.

You can usually increase the sublimits, to some degree, or take out a floater on specific items (I'm insuring this camera with this serial number for $$$). Insuring something like gold or coins is going to be expensive. They're small, highly valuable, easy to take or lose, and easy to sell and hard to recover or track. They're a higher risk, so insuring it will cost more.

Yes, it is a scam. Right up to the point your house burns down, then it is a Godsend.

Where else on earth can you bet someone that your $600,000 house will not burn down and if it does, they'll pay to replace it. For a $750 dollar annual bet that pays almost a 1000-1 if it comes off.

Why get made at the points spread of the bet? Simply bet extra for bullion, which does not burn by the way and can be recovered from the ashes. Or cameras or guns or antique furniture, bet a little extra next year.

(starts sketching out a home basement vault built better than Fort Knox)

insurance is a scam.....that’s a big no shitter.

Its a very lucrative business to be in for the insurance brokers as well as the scammers who use the system to make money.

You can insure anything you want...it just takes money.

Just have to pay up and most likely change companies.

I’m no friend of insurance but every business has the right to make money.

safety deposit box at the bank are used for a reason

The house always wins.

This is not news.

So, cancel your insurance, then you aren't falling for the scam.

I have a 10x30 storage unit at a Public Storage(name of company) place I use it for my small plumbing company when you rent the unit they force you to also pay for the insurance in case of theft or fire. Well last year my unit along with some others got broken into. They took about 3K worth of tools and random stuff. I was like great now I get to use this insurance they forced me to get......Ha Ha well nope they wanted pics and receipts of everything that got stolen they wouldn't cover any item.........Who the fuck thinks to take pics of every damn thing and receipts it aint worth my time to try to find every receipt for tools I have bought in the last 10-15 years.

You can get "riders" or additional insurance (higher limits) on certain items such as camera equipment, gold coins, firearms, etc., some companies require appraisals, some don't, for an additional cost. It all depends on what you have and how much you value those items. Most insurance agents/companies recommend taking pictures of your personal belongings annually, and storing those pics off site, like in a safe deposit box. Use a thumb drive or SD card.

lonegunman762x51 said:

Yes, it is a scam. Right up to the point your house burns down, then it is a Godsend.

Where else on earth can you bet someone that your $600,000 house will not burn down and if it does, they'll pay to replace it. For a $750 dollar annual bet that pays almost a 1000-1 if it comes off.

Why get made at the points spread of the bet? Simply bet extra for bullion, which does not burn by the way and can be recovered from the ashes. Or cameras or guns or antique furniture, bet a little extra next year.

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A family member of mine had a house fire. They put him through the ringer with the whole process, finally he got pissed off and made an excel spread sheet that was in the 50-60 page range of stuff they didn’t compensate him for. He ended up getting an additional 24k from insurance for his effort. I rebuilt his house for him, I ended up getting $297,000 to rebuild the house and I think they got another $200k for contents.
So let’s just assume he over paid for 30 years and paid $1500/ year for home owners. That’s a $45,000 bet with an almost $500,000 pay out. Seems ok to me.

2018 State Farm pays a 250 million dollar to avoid a RACKETEERING trial. They funneled money to a judge who was elected, then the judge was the deciding vote to kill a billion dollar judgement a jury awarded to the SF customers being forced to use inferior quality parts and fraud.
PS the judge Illinois Supreme Court justice Karmeier is still on the bench.

Softtail103 said:

PS the judge Illinois Supreme Court justice Karmeier is still on the bench.

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He retired at the end of 2020.

300zx_tt said:

He retired at the end of 2020.

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Now he needs to report to prison.

lonegunman762x51 said:

Yes, it is a scam. Right up to the point your house burns down, then it is a Godsend.

Where else on earth can you bet someone that your $600,000 house will not burn down and if it does, they'll pay to replace it. For a $750 dollar annual bet that pays almost a 1000-1 if it comes off.

Why get made at the points spread of the bet? Simply bet extra for bullion, which does not burn by the way and can be recovered from the ashes. Or cameras or guns or antique furniture, bet a little extra next year.

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Hold onto that $600,000+ policy that costs $62 a month. You won’t find another like it.

Competition has driven prices down, but the other result is that the base policies cover the average needs of the average person. The average person doesn't have a ton of bullion and wouldn't want to pay extra to cover something they don't have. As above, get a safety deposit box, or buy higher limits. The more you're covering the most it will cost. Insurance on money is expensive. My money is mostly in the bank, why would I want to pay for extra insurance I know I won't need? In your case, the base limits aren't enough. The coverage you want exists, but you don't to pay extra for it. Instead you want to buy the basic policy and get mad it doesn't do everything?

If you look at data on combined ratios for home owner insurance carriers a lot are over 100%, meaning between claims and expenses (employees, rent, etc) they are paying out more than the premium they take in. How is this possible? The carriers make money on the investment returns between when you pay your premium and when they have to pay out claims. This also explains why you get a lower rate if you pay the full year up front rather than monthly, they have a longer period to earn returns on the investment. I get how you may think its a scam because it doesn't cover everything (even though you can buy more coverage), but if insurance is paying out every dollar they take in, it doesn't seem like a terrible deal.

But to a certain extent, yes the house always wins. Statistically speaking its cheaper to go without insurance. The question is do you want to self insure for your full exposure to risk? If the answer is no, then you're buying insurance. If you're fine to live with the risk of having to pay out of pocket to replace everything you own, then don't buy it. I'd rather pay a $1,000 a year than have to keep the full rebuild of my house laying around. YMMV

Another Casual said:

Competition has driven prices down, but the other result is that the base policies cover the average needs of the average person. The average person doesn't have a ton of bullion and wouldn't want to pay extra to cover something they don't have. As above, get a safety deposit box, or buy higher limits. The more you're covering the most it will cost. Insurance on money is expensive. My money is mostly in the bank, why would I want to pay for extra insurance I know I won't need? In your case, the base limits aren't enough. The coverage you want exists, but you don't to pay extra for it. Instead you want to buy the basic policy and get mad it doesn't do everything?

If you look at data on combined ratios for home owner insurance carriers a lot are over 100%, meaning between claims and expenses (employees, rent, etc) they are paying out more than the premium they take in. How is this possible? The carriers make money on the investment returns between when you pay your premium and when they have to pay out claims. This also explains why you get a lower rate if you pay the full year up front rather than monthly, they have a longer period to earn returns on the investment. I get how you may think its a scam because it doesn't cover everything (even though you can buy more coverage), but if insurance is paying out every dollar they take in, it doesn't seem like a terrible deal.

But to a certain extent, yes the house always wins. Statistically speaking its cheaper to go without insurance. The question is do you want to self insure for your full exposure to risk? If the answer is no, then you're buying insurance. If you're fine to live with the risk of having to pay out of pocket to replace everything you own, then don't buy it. I'd rather pay a $1,000 a year than have to keep the full rebuild of my house laying around. YMMV

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Insurance Agent?

Softtail103 said:

Insurance Agent?

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Negative

I spent 25 years in auto body. From working in the shop to the owner of 3 shops. To think they are anything but running a criminal organization is absurd. I have watched these companies operate with impunity. Deny everything they can. Then to buy their way out of a RACKETEERING TRIAL just tells the world they are above the law. They buy politicians every election. They control the laws that you must purchase car insurance, then they set the price for this service. To think this is anything but a criminal organization is ridiculous.
Net Profit from 2020
Berkshire Hathaway 81.4 billion
State Farm 5.6 billion
MetLife 5.9 billion

Alpine 338 said:

The other thing, my $200K personal property coverage, doesn't necessarily cover $200K of property, as just about everything is limited to how much they cover. For example $500 for photography equipment, even though you may own $5K of equipment.

If my house ever burns down, they will be getting an itemized loss list that will consist of thousands of pages listing every single thing from toilet paper in the bathrooms, to the beer in the refrigerator. I will be listing every toothpick, every fork, knife, and spoon, including the plastic ones. The HP printer cartridges that cost more than the damn printer, and any and everything that my imagination can create without being fraudulent.

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.....and I thought I was the only anal one out there. I have a Thumb Drive, that has anything we own that's of any value, what we paid for it, on it and I have two copies of it. Have one hidden where it can't be burned, flooded, stolen, and one I stash on my person, or, somewhere I can access it. Don't have receipts for everything, but, it's something for that "proof of purchase" question and to back-up my claim(s). Mac

the longer i live, and the more i see....the more i think “fuck this fucked up world”.

the corruption is staggering and seemingly endless.

yep pretty much a scam. definitely don't think that because you pay insurance premiums, you "have" insurance. you need to go over everything you have (esp firearms, jewelry, art, precious metals and the like) and understand what any sublimits are and how they value them when a loss occurs (ie original cost, appreciated cost, depreciated cost etc). hint - it's prob not in your favor so at least understand.

also consider self-insurance which just means you're out the loss with no insurance reimbursement. esp for older cars, motorcycles and the like where you could afford to replace them as needed. a couple hundred bucks a year to cover something amounts to thousands and thousands of $ over time.

If you have not done it, talk to your agent about personal articles policy, basically you can 100 percent insure say your hunting gear against any kind of loss on a policy. Most agents won’t ever mention it

Just don’t buy insurance. Problem solved.

Then if your house burns down or you die start a go fund me and have other people cover your losses for you or your loved ones.

And make sure to take the premiums you save not having insurance and donate to other people go fund me that did the same thing.

You could probably get a few hundred people together to all agree to pay other people’s losses through go fund me. And maybe hire someone good with money to coordinate the money movement. And set up the pages.

If you have someone in the group that keeps having losses kick them out or make them pay more each time. You could even hire someone to do that as well.

In Texas you can skip having car insurance if you are rich enough to be able to put up a $50k county bond.
If you had 3 or more vehicles, with safe drivers, you'd probably see significant savings over a 20 year time frame.

I'd say the better part of home and vehicle "owners" most likely actually have those things owned by the banks currently, so the banks and finance companies demand you keep insurance on it, payable to them.

VVhoisJohnGalt said:

Just don’t buy insurance. Problem solved.

Then if your house burns down or you die start a go fund me and have other people cover your losses for you or your loved ones.

And make sure to take the premiums you save not having insurance and donate to other people go fund me that did the same thing.

You could probably get a few hundred people together to all agree to pay other people’s losses through go fund me. And maybe hire someone good with money to coordinate the money movement. And set up the pages.

If you have someone in the group that keeps having losses kick them out or make them pay more each time. You could even hire someone to do that as well.

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Im fucking rolling here, that is brilliant. Inventing insurance to solve insurance.... fucking bravo sir.

Car insurance is to protect the people who you hit, or the bank if they really own your ride.

When the camp fire rolled through paradise, just up the hill from me, everyone lost everything. I know quite a few folks who didn’t have insurance because they owned their places. Poof, gone. I also know a guy who’s grass was still green and his house wasn’t touched, lost a shed with some tools in it. Got close to $70k for that shed and some “smoke damage.”

I know that my homeowners policy won’t cover the guns, so I got a separate policy. Very reasonable, it’s worth a couple hundred bucks a year to me. I do live in town by myself and work a lot. Give my dog a steak and everything you need to cut open the safes is in the garage.

Don't forget all the money the ambulance chaser's spend on advertising all day, every day. So, they're clearly getting paid.

Another Casual said:

Competition has driven prices down, but the other result is that the base policies cover the average needs of the average person. The average person doesn't have a ton of bullion and wouldn't want to pay extra to cover something they don't have. As above, get a safety deposit box, or buy higher limits. The more you're covering the most it will cost. Insurance on money is expensive. My money is mostly in the bank, why would I want to pay for extra insurance I know I won't need? In your case, the base limits aren't enough. The coverage you want exists, but you don't to pay extra for it. Instead you want to buy the basic policy and get mad it doesn't do everything?

If you look at data on combined ratios for home owner insurance carriers a lot are over 100%, meaning between claims and expenses (employees, rent, etc) they are paying out more than the premium they take in. How is this possible? The carriers make money on the investment returns between when you pay your premium and when they have to pay out claims. This also explains why you get a lower rate if you pay the full year up front rather than monthly, they have a longer period to earn returns on the investment. I get how you may think its a scam because it doesn't cover everything (even though you can buy more coverage), but if insurance is paying out every dollar they take in, it doesn't seem like a terrible deal.

But to a certain extent, yes the house always wins. Statistically speaking its cheaper to go without insurance. The question is do you want to self insure for your full exposure to risk? If the answer is no, then you're buying insurance. If you're fine to live with the risk of having to pay out of pocket to replace everything you own, then don't buy it. I'd rather pay a $1,000 a year than have to keep the full rebuild of my house laying around. YMMV

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Be careful how you have your various accounts titled, etc., as there are limits on the amount of insurance a "depositor" has via the FDIC insurance. There are work arounds to some extent, (joint owners, wife is listed first on a 2nd joint acct, etc.). Google how to maximize the FDIC insurance for tips and such.

In today's litigation society, it's almost suicide to not have insurance. Doesn't matter which way it goes, you're going to have to fight for yourself, because the insurance companies aren't going to do much for you, if anything at all.

My daughter had a Jeep back up into her in a drive thru at McDonalds. My daughter had 2 witnesses in her car saying the Jeep backed up into them. The Jeep driver told his insurance company that my daughter hit him. He had no witnesses.

You got it, my insurance company took his side and paid for his damage (which wasn't much).

Texasflyer said:

Im fucking rolling here, that is brilliant. Inventing insurance to solve insurance.... fucking bravo sir.

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I was thinking it may take months to get money from go fund me. So maybe everyone donates an amount that consists of the exact amount they would save not paying insurance. Then if someone’s house burns down you can get them the money within a week.

At the end of the year if there is money in the account you could drop the “donation” amount everyone pays next year.

This is going to be the next 6.5creed!

Insurance companies are as worthless as the 260remington.

BullGear said:

In today's litigation society, it's almost suicide to not have insurance. Doesn't matter which way it goes, you're going to have to fight for yourself, because the insurance companies aren't going to do much for you, if anything at all.

My daughter had a Jeep back up into her in a drive thru at McDonalds. My daughter had 2 witnesses in her car saying the Jeep backed up into them. The Jeep driver told his insurance company that my daughter hit him. He had no witnesses.

You got it, my insurance company took his side and paid for his damage (which wasn't much).

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This is why you need to be running front and rear dashcams at all times.

I've had folks blow through a long red light and get a ticket after the crash for running the red light and then still try to tell the insurance company that it was somehow my fault.

Once I started running high resolution dash cams, I could just pull out the chip, hook it up to my phone and show the police officer on the spot what really happened, then send the video file to my lawyer and to my insurance agent.

W54/XM-388 said:

This is why you need to be running front and rear dashcams at all times.

I've had folks blow through a long red light and get a ticket after the crash for running the red light and then still try to tell the insurance company that it was somehow my fault.

Once I started running high resolution dash cams, I could just pull out the chip, hook it up to my phone and show the police officer on the spot what really happened, then send the video file to my lawyer and to my insurance agent.

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I agree completely with your statement. However, this was long before cameras were available for automobiles. She's 30 and this occurred when she was 17 or 18.

VVhoisJohnGalt said:

I was thinking it may take months to get money from go fund me. So maybe everyone donates an amount that consists of the exact amount they would save not paying insurance. Then if someone’s house burns down you can get them the money within a week.

At the end of the year if there is money in the account you could drop the “donation” amount everyone pays next year.

This is going to be the next 6.5creed!

Insurance companies are as worthless as the 260remington.

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What you're describing is how mutual insurance companies often work. I've had an auto policy that paid dividends at the end of the year based on earnings.

Issue is that you still needs someone to determine how much should be paid, and some kind of agreement between the parties on what they're getting for their donation so everyone who makes a claim is treated equally. A house burns down, do they get everything in the fund? If not, how do you determine what they get (within a week, based on your criteria). You can have 10 contractors out and they won't agree on what it will take to rebuild the house. Someone has their mailbox hit and their contractor charges $30,000 to replace it, does the fund pay it because they won't argue anything? Someone trips on your sidewalk, does the fund pay them $1,000, or $50,000, or the whole fund? etc. And all of a sudden you have insurance again.

Another Casual said:

What you're describing is how mutual insurance companies often work. I've had an auto policy that paid dividends at the end of the year based on earnings.

Issue is that you still needs someone to determine how much should be paid, and some kind of agreement between the parties on what they're getting for their donation so everyone who makes a claim is treated equally. A house burns down, do they get everything in the fund? If not, how do you determine what they get (within a week, based on your criteria). You can have 10 contractors out and they won't agree on what it will take to rebuild the house. Someone has their mailbox hit and their contractor charges $30,000 to replace it, does the fund pay it because they won't argue anything? Someone trips on your sidewalk, does the fund pay them $1,000, or $50,000, or the whole fund? etc. And all of a sudden you have insurance again.

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Both my posts were very tongue in cheek.
See: 260rem vs 6.5creed reference.

SilentStalkr said:

No shit! Everyone knows that. It’s legal robbery that you are forced to take part in, kind of like taxes!

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You are not forced to buy any insurance. That is a choice.

Docsherm said:

You are not forced to buy any insurance. That is a choice.

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In most cases they do force you in some form or another. In order to register and drive your automobile, most states require you to insure your car, even though there are some who don't. Uninsured Motorist Insurance is then charged to the insured driver by the insurance company (crazy, I know). Also, if you have a mortgage, you're going to have to have some type of Homeowner's Insurance which is mandated by the lending organization. If you don't purchase your own, the bank will purchase it for you and it will likely double your cost for that insurance.

Go find another agent/company that can get you replacement cost for your house and personal property for all causes of loss. You get what you pay for with Insurance.

it is hard to insure gold, etc because it can be stolen and melted down so easily with no trace. You would more than likely be better off storing your gold somewhere safe. I would bet a policy for gold, etc would be prohibitively expensive, if you could find a carrier.

If you know you have more than the sublimity on the policy of photo equipment you either need to get them to up the limit or insure separately.

make sure you have your guns insured at replacement cost vs acv.

good luck.

A photograph of gold/silver coins/bullion is needed to even consider a rider for those types of things. The problem is that if you don't claim your gold and silver, it will not be covered in the event of a loss. This process has to be done every year before the policy can be renewed.

I've also been told that you must have a secure place for this gold/silver or they won't write the rider. They can't be stored in the back of your sock drawer.

Having gone thru a house fire several decades ago ( the house was rented and I had only been in it a week ), receipts are everything. Without the proof, you will have a real time getting full replacement cost. Fortunately some of the receipts were under a heavy oak table that survived. Without those and video of the property, good luck. It's the escape for most insurers.
Look forward to being investigated for arson also. This included a taped conversation with an insurance investigator and an arson investigator. You have to be very careful with what you say, even if you are innocent. Looking back, I should have gotten an attorney. They kept on wanting me to telling them exactly where the fire started and would ask the same questions over and over again. In the end, it all worked out in my favor as the owner of the house had built the fireplace incorrectly. Arson investigator told me what had happened.
Unfortunately, I didn't have enough insurance to cover all that was lost and the policy was maxed out.
You go thru all of this, then you have to watch out for the scavengers that monitor the fire calls. A couple of them showed up and told a neighbor they were from the insurance company. Who knows how much they hauled away, but a lot of things were missing from the fire.

Umbrella policies can be a catch 22 also. Fewer insurers are willing to back you in the case of self defense in the home or on the street. This is why USCCA exists, along with others.

Another scam is the Long Term Care policies that outfits like GE used to to sell to the seniors. Numerous law suites for Genworth and by the time they are settled, the insured are usually bankrupt. Thousands, including the wife and I, have been affected by these vultures and they have destroyed many families. There is, hopefully, a special place in hell for these assholes.

BullGear said:

In most cases they do force you in some form or another. In order to register and drive your automobile, most states require you to insure your car, even though there are some who don't. Uninsured Motorist Insurance is then charged to the insured driver by the insurance company (crazy, I know). Also, if you have a mortgage, you're going to have to have some type of Homeowner's Insurance which is mandated by the lending organization. If you don't purchase your own, the bank will purchase it for you and it will likely double your cost for that insurance.

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So THEY are forcing you to buy a car? No, THEY are not. Pay cash for a house and you are not required to have insurance.

The point is that people want to services and they must pay to play.

Docsherm said:

So THEY are forcing you to buy a car? No, THEY are not. Pay cash for a house and you are not required to have insurance.

The point is that people want to services and they must pay to play.

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What world do you live in? Don't own a car and pay cash for your $500,000 home. I'm not a poors, but I couldn't buy my houses without mortgages.

BullGear said:

What world do you live in? Don't own a car and pay cash for your $500,000 home. I'm not a poors, but I couldn't buy my houses without mortgages.

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That is my point, you can rent.

Nobody is forcing people to do these things. That is the point. You want to have a $500,000 home and cannot pay cash, then you will have to finance it and part of that agreement is to have homeowners insurance. You want the service of paying over time? Then ypu will play by their rules.



FYI..... If you can only afford a $500k house then you are a poorer in my book.

Docsherm said:

That is my point, you can rent.

Nobody is forcing people to do these things. That is the point. You want to have a $500,000 home and cannot pay cash, then you will have to finance it and part of that agreement is to have homeowners insurance. You want the service of paying over time? Then ypu will play by their rules.



FYI..... If you can only afford a $500k house then you are a poorer in my book.

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I just threw that number out. but since you say that no one is forcing people to do things, it sound to me like you're willing to let everyone live off of the government's teat.

Docsherm said:

You are not forced to buy any insurance. That is a choice.

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BullGear said:

In most cases they do force you in some form or another. In order to register and drive your automobile, most states require you to insure your car, even though there are some who don't. Uninsured Motorist Insurance is then charged to the insured driver by the insurance company (crazy, I know). Also, if you have a mortgage, you're going to have to have some type of Homeowner's Insurance which is mandated by the lending organization. If you don't purchase your own, the bank will purchase it for you and it will likely double your cost for that insurance.

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^^^What he said!

Docsherm said:

That is my point, you can rent.

Nobody is forcing people to do these things. That is the point. You want to have a $500,000 home and cannot pay cash, then you will have to finance it and part of that agreement is to have homeowners insurance. You want the service of paying over time? Then ypu will play by their rules.



FYI..... If you can only afford a $500k house then you are a poorer in my book.

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That’s BS. Nobody is going to rent to you without some form of renters insurance unless they are just plain idiots. You sound like Biden when he said you don’t have to pay income taxes. Try that and see how it works out.

Sure, everything is a choice but unless you live in a cabin in the middle of nowhere cut off from the outside world you are pretty much forced to use certain things to partake within society. And hell nowadays if you are that hermit type guy they may just come after you for that as well.

In regards to car insurance, yeah in some states it’s a crime not to have car insurance. You get stopped without it, ticket, get in an accident without it, sure the bill originally goes to the insured but I guarantee you the insurance company will go after the uninsured if it is worth their while. The problem is usually those that are uninsured have nothing to begin with.

Sure, you have a choice, it’s either to partake in society or not. And if you think most people can pay for a $500k house in cash then you are just as disillusioned as our politicians. I can because I’m super blessed, but most can’t. Maybe like 6% of this country could do that, if that. That’s a fact.