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L42A1 & Enforcer reloading

RWSGunsmithing

RWSGunsmithing

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    • Mar 26, 2006
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    So I'm sure some will ask why did I post this here and not the reloading section. Simple a lot guys don't visit the reloading section.

    Besides this has more to do with vintage sniper rifles than reloading in general.

    Anyone have a good safe, low pressure load using the 150-155gr bthp bullets?
     
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    I mostly shoot RG surplus in mine but worked up a couple 150gr loads for hunting with IMR 4895, 4064 and RE-15 in LC brass with 150gr Hornady and Sierra bullets.
    The load I settled with was 42.6gr IMR 4895 under a 150gr HRN spire point. IIRC this load is under 50k psi max, as were the other two powders but I dont recall the charge weight.
    They were the starting load or an increment above using data from the hodgdon website.
    There is a thread on this subject at milsurps in the Lee Enfield forum as well.
    It's a year or so old by now so it might take a little digging to find it, but well worth the effort, IMO.
     
    Last edited:
    Here is my refined load for the L42A1:

    Sierra 155 grain MK (#2155)
    LC Match Brass (case weight 179.5 grains), match-prepped
    VV N140, 46.0 grains
    Fed M210 primer
    Loaded OAL 2.80" to feed through magazine

    Average velocity was 2785 fps, 85 degrees

    This may not be a "light load" but I used the OCW system to develop this load. YMMV.

    Hope this helps.

    longebow
     
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    Sierra 155 grain MK (#2155)
    LC Match Brass (case weight 179.5 grains), match-prepped
    VV N140, 46.0 grains
    Click to expand...
    The VihtaVuori Reloading Manual (4th Edition) lists that bullet and powder with the following minimum and maximum charge weights:
    155 Sierra BTHP @ 2.795" COAL:
    37.0 grains of N140 = 2354 fps
    44.2 grains of N140 = 2712 fps.

    Maybe it's safe in your rifle - but your load is well over max per the maker of that powder...its really the middle of a 30-06 charge weight - just an fyi.
    I think 40-42 grains is a "good, safe, low pressure" round per the OP question re medium burn rate powders with 150-155 grain bullets.
     
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    Loading manuals these days are definitely conservative… I always compare loads from my “newest 2021” manual with my older manuals from the ‘70’s and ‘80’s… not to use a higher number, but to get an idea of how much margin for error there is…. Or how much the loads are being restrained for liability.

    46 grains is definitely high based on current manual. But might have been below max a few years ago when load was developed.

    That said… my rule is to always go on “latest” data.

    So 46 might not show any signs at all. It might have been half a grain below max just a few years ago. But it’s not a conservative load by any stretch!

    Using latest recommended conservative numbers with a vintage gun is good practice. In fact, the only safe practice.

    With a modern gun and modern materials, etc. the experienced hand loader can get some good information from older manuals if they are cautious and want to work up performance loads.

    But as always, use caution with anything approaching max loads. It doesn’t take much to go over and pressure is unforgiving!

    Sirhr
     
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    Old Aussie fullbore rifle. I'm using 150.5gr Berger Fullbore projectiles, lapua brass, RL15 powder. I'll find charge weight and COAL details later. I recall it being within a few grains of starting loads. It will shoot consistent 3/4 moa groups at the largest, sometimes will shoot 1/2. Rear locking Enfield actions are definitely at their best with milder loads.
     

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    sirhrmechanic said:
    Loading manuals these days are definitely conservative… I always compare loads from my “newest 2021” manual with my older manuals from the ‘70’s and ‘80’s… not to use a higher number, but to get an idea of how much margin for error there is…. Or how much the loads are being restrained for liability.

    46 grains is definitely high based on current manual. But might have been below max a few years ago when load was developed.

    That said… my rule is to always go on “latest” data.

    So 46 might not show any signs at all. It might have been half a grain below max just a few years ago. But it’s not a conservative load by any stretch!

    Using latest recommended conservative numbers with a vintage gun is good practice. In fact, the only safe practice.

    With a modern gun and modern materials, etc. the experienced hand loader can get some good information from older manuals if they are cautious and want to work up performance loads.

    But as always, use caution with anything approaching max loads. It doesn’t take much to go over and pressure is unforgiving!

    Sirhr
    Click to expand...
    That sounds good. Convincing, stringent. There is a development in load data, oh yes. True.. . Not always simple to analyze... . Caution is the Mother of the porcelain-box, we say ;):)

    If reloading is not possible, this Federal GM seems to be the 1th choice of many shooters.. . An often available round, by the way.
     

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    42.4 gr 4064 with 150gr was a good load for mine.
     
    BigKev72 said:
    Various. I shot pretty much every 150gr projectile I could lay my hands on. And some 147gr military ball too. The 147gr ball usually shot better than the 150’s if I’m honest.
    Click to expand...
    Yes, I see.. Okay...
    What about the Sierra Matchking-Loads with 150 grs perhaps 155 grs ? Their accuracy especially...

    I heard a commercial reloader recommended the rather new 150 grs Barnes Matchburner-Bullet in this relation - I don't have a L42 A1. Unfortunately, yes.. . A expensive handload.. .
     
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    Winchester M70 Van Orden said:
    Yes, I see.. Okay...
    What about the Sierra Matchking-Loads with 150 grs perhaps 155 grs ? Their accuracy especially...

    I heard a commercial reloader recommended the rather new 150 grs Barnes Matchburner-Bullet in this relation - I don't have a L42 A1. Unfortunately, yes.. . A expensive handload.. .
    Click to expand...
    I am currently using 155gr TMK’s over the same charge and they shoot very well out of several .308 rifles.
     
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    The newer 155 gr Tipped Sierra Matchking, yes... Good. I see.

    And what about the often preferred 168 gr Match-Loads ? Be it an Factory- or a Handload. By the way..
    It seems that they - and here especially the Sierra MK - shoot exceptionally accurate in all rifles... ?!
     
    I have used the 168gr smks and the 168gr a-max, but find they do better with 8208xbr propellant. Don’t shoot much 168gr stuff though, you may be better off waiting for someone with more knowledge to chime in.
     
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    I have had very good groups with
    168gr ELD Match.
    41.3 gr of AR2206H/4895
    COL of 2.800

    That's with a NO.4 tested action, and 5 groove heavy barrel.
    It was going to be my L42A1 clone, but I picked up a mint action and two 4 gròove barrels for that project.

    It drops feral cattle and camels like a row of shitcans.

    I have total confidence in it's accuracy.

    No signs of pressure, or dreaded pings and vibrations, on firing.

    The book says it's borderline hot, but going on the test till destruction loads done at Enfield, should be fine.
    I'm the only one using it, so it's all on me.
     
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    Winchester M70 Van Orden said:
    And what about the often preferred 168 gr Match-Loads ? Be it an Factory- or a Handload. By the way..
    It seems that they - and here especially the Sierra MK - shoot exceptionally accurate in all rifles... ?!
    Click to expand...

    45gr VV N150 behind a Lapua 168gr Scenar.
    This is the load that set the first perfect score in ISSF 300m 60 shots prone. 600/600p in the 1991World Championchip in Moscow.
    After 59 shots and 590 points the shooter, Harald Stenvaag, adjusted his rear sight two clicks "up" and shot a 10.0 at 6 o'clock to score 600p.. (10.9 is a perfect X)
     
    Last edited:
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    GrumpyOleFart said:
    Ich hatte sehr gute Gruppen mit
    168gr ELD-Match.
    41,3 g AR2206H/4895
    COL von 2.800

    Das ist mit einer getesteten Aktion Nr. 4 und einem schweren Lauf mit 5 Rillen.
    Es sollte mein L42A1-Klon werden, aber ich habe für dieses Projekt eine Mint-Aktion und zwei 4-Groove-Fässer gekauft.

    Es lässt wildes Vieh und Kamele gefallen wie eine Reihe von Shitcans.

    Ich habe volles Vertrauen in die Genauigkeit.

    Keine Anzeichen von Druck oder gefürchteten Pings und Vibrationen beim Schießen.

    Das Buch sagt, dass es grenzwertig ist, aber den Test zu machen, bis sterben Zerstörungsladungen in Enfield erledigt sind, sollte in Ordnung sein.
    Ich bin der einzige, der es benutzt, auch liegt alles an mir.
    Click to expand...
    T tönt sehr interessant 41,3 gr AR 2206H... Noch nie gesehen.. Wer stellt dieses Pulver her?

    Schwerer Lauf, Nr.4-Aktion, tönt spannend. Was für ein Lauffabrikat, Lauflänge mag's sein ?🤔
     
    Winchester M70 Van Orden said:
    T tönt sehr interessant 41,3 gr AR 2206H... Noch nie gesehen.. Wer stellt dieses Pulver her?

    Schwerer Lauf, Nr.4-Aktion, tönt spannend. Was für ein Lauffabrikat, Lauflänge mag's sein ?🤔
    Click to expand...
    The here in Australia is ADI 2206H.
    In America it's sold I believe under Hodgson 4895.
    Ironic that a majority of our powder is exported.
     
    TorF said:
    45gr VV N150 behind a Lapua 168gr Scenar.
    This is the load that set the first perfect score in ISSF 300m 60 shots prone. 600/600p in the 1991World Championchip in Moscow.
    After 59 shots and 590 points the shooter, Harald Stenvaag, adjusted his rear sight two clicks "up" and shot a 10.0 at 6 o'clock to score 600p.. (10.9 is a perfect X)
    Click to expand...
    Thats's really interesting info. The 1991 Championship in Moscow, the ISSF 300 m-Match. Harald Steenvag, where did I read this name before ? A member of the Lapua Team.. ?
     
    TorF said:
    45gr VV N150 behind a Lapua 168gr Scenar.
    This is the load that set the first perfect score in ISSF 300m 60 shots prone. 600/600p in the 1991World Championchip in Moscow.
    After 59 shots and 590 points the shooter, Harald Stenvaag, adjusted his rear sight two clicks "up" and shot a 10.0 at 6 o'clock to score 600p.. (10.9 is a perfect X)
    Click to expand...
    What type of rifle did Harald Stenvaag use then in Moscow ?...
     
    Winchester M70 Van Orden said:
    T tönt sehr interessant 41,3 gr AR 2206H... Noch nie gesehen.. Wer stellt dieses Pulver her?

    Schwerer Lauf, Nr.4-Aktion, tönt spannend. Was für ein Lauffabrikat, Lauflänge mag's sein ?🤔
    Click to expand...
    Powder charge: for H4895 is at the Hodgdon-Site a maximum of 43,5 gr listed. For 168 grs-Bullets in general, but despite that.. ? Which book contents the information this load is"near the maximum" ?.. .
     
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    TorF said:
    45gr VV N150 behind a Lapua 168gr Scenar.
    This is the load that set the first perfect score in ISSF 300m 60 shots prone. 600/600p in the 1991World Championchip in Moscow.
    After 59 shots and 590 points the shooter, Harald Stenvaag, adjusted his rear sight two clicks "up" and shot a 10.0 at 6 o'clock to score 600p.. (10.9 is a perfect X)
    Click to expand...
    Happy new year to all !

    45 grain of N150 behind Lapua Scenar 168 gr seems to be a powerful load. Especially in the L42 A1- Enfield-Rifle.. Perhaps even the maximum.. ?
     
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    GrumpyOleFart said:
    I have had very good groups with
    168gr ELD Match.
    41.3 gr of AR2206H/4895
    COL of 2.800

    That's with a NO.4 tested action, and 5 groove heavy barrel.
    It was going to be my L42A1 clone, but I picked up a mint action and two 4 gròove barrels for that project.

    It drops feral cattle and camels like a row of shitcans.

    I have total confidence in it's accuracy.

    No signs of pressure, or dreaded pings and vibrations, on firing.

    The book says it's borderline hot, but going on the test till destruction loads done at Enfield, should be fine.
    I'm the only one using it, so it's all on me.
    Click to expand...
    Hmm... Very good groups means ? 🤔🙂 At which distance ?..
     
    Winchester M70 Van Orden said:
    Wow ! 😳
    Now That's a great group ! 10 Shots at 500 yards
    Which scope/which reticle and type of mount is it, please ?
    Click to expand...
    That's with the RSM replica scope and mounts.
    Surprised me, and my mate.
    I've been working up to that group, put about 70 rounds through my L42A1 clone to get to that, with a handload.
    Very happy with it.
    A bit of nostalgia, they decommissioned the L42A1 not long after I finished a course with it.
    The AI was a huge leap from Ellie, but I love that Enfield action.
     

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    GrumpyOleFart said:
    That's with the RSM replica scope and mounts.
    Surprised me, and my mate.
    I've been working up to that group, put about 70 rounds through my L42A1 clone to get to that, with a handload.
    Very happy with it.
    A bit of nostalgia, they decommissioned the L42A1 not long after I finished a course with it.
    The AI was a huge leap from Ellie, but I love that Enfield action.
    Click to expand...
    Are you liking the RSM scope?
     
    RWSGunsmithing said:
    So I'm sure some will ask why did I post this here and not the reloading section. Simple a lot guys don't visit the reloading section.

    Besides this has more to do with vintage sniper rifles than reloading in general.

    Anyone have a good safe, low pressure load using the 150-155gr bthp bullets?
    Click to expand...

    Hmm... Returning to the basic question.. What about the experience with these 155 gr-Match-Loads ? Example Lapua, Hornady, GGG, RWS-RUAG ?

    There is something which says to me we should not leave out... Not only as a comparison to the individual handloads, but that too.. .
    If its allowed :) ?



    .308 Win. Lapua Scenar 155 gr GB 491 HPBT Match.midwayusa.com.jpg
    .308 Win. Hornady Match 155 gr A-Max.opticsandammo.jpg








    .308 Win. GGG 155 grs BTHP Match.jpg
     
    I just loaded a soft load for a 70ish old gentleman using a Rem 7400 semi auto. I believe it would be good enough to use in the rifles you reference

    42g RL15 under a 150g Sierra game king

    6 shot avg of 2449fps
     
    Thanks roostercogburn98,

    That's interesting. Because an 42 gr Powdercharge is a bit surprising. It seems to be an rather strong load for a semi-auto :) ?
    But I don't know the semi-autos for hunting really well... No, being honest ;)

    Do you know the Enfield L42 A1 or Enforcer-Rifles then, I suppose ?

    Lee-Enfield No. 42 A 1 SAS-Sniper in Dhofar Oman in the 1970.jpg



    Lee-Enfield L 42 A1, No.4 (T), L39 A1 I.jpg
     
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    Winchester M70 Van Orden said:
    Thanks roostercogburn98,

    That's interesting. Because an 42 gr Powdercharge is a bit surprising. It seems to be an rather strong load for a semi-auto :) ?
    But I don't know the semi-autos for hunting really well... No, being honest ;)

    Do you know the Enfield L42 A1 or Enforcer-Rifles then, I suppose ?

    View attachment 7946639


    View attachment 7946651
    Click to expand...
    I only know of them, not anything about them really. I have longbranch Enfield receiver in the safe that I want to covert
    to 45-70 eventually.

    The 7400 has a fairly bulky operating system. I probably could have bumped up to 43 and been ok, especially with this gun having the shorter 18in barrel.
     
    So somebody next to you had - maybe earlier, not necessarily now - at a time such an 7,62 Enfield-Conversion.. ? And you exchanged yourself.. .

    A Longbranch No.4 for a .45-70 Govt. eventually, that sounds good.... There must be some such conversions, f. e. in Australia or New Zealand..

    Remington 7400: oh, I see - even 43 grains powder should be all right. Because of the fairly bulky operating system.. Ok... . Semi-Auto-rifles are not widely in use here for hunting... .

    Any more experience with the 155 gr Factory-Matchloads as L42 A1-Ammo ? :unsure::)
     
    Winchester M70 Van Orden said:
    So somebody next to you had - maybe earlier, not necessarily now - at a time such an 7,62 Enfield-Conversion.. ? And you exchanged yourself.. .

    A Longbranch No.4 for a .45-70 Govt. eventually, that sounds good.... There must be some such conversions, f. e. in Australia or New Zealand..

    Remington 7400: oh, I see - even 43 grains powder should be all right. Because of the fairly bulky operating system.. Ok... . Semi-Auto-rifles are not widely in use here for hunting... .

    Any more experience with the 155 gr Factory-Matchloads as L42 A1-Ammo ? :unsure::)
    Click to expand...
    I have 4x conversions. 2 are L42A1 replicas and 2 are L39A1 ‘Enforcer’ replicas. They all shoot extremely well. I have fired Winchester 155gr Match ammo and Aussie Outback 155.5gn Berger Match ammo (ADI headstamps) in them and have had easily sub-MOA accuracy and zero pressure signs.
     
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    ReplicaSnipers said:
    I have 4x conversions. 2 are L42A1 replicas and 2 are L39A1 ‘Enforcer’ replicas. They all shoot extremely well. I have fired Winchester 155gr Match ammo and Aussie Outback 155.5gn Berger Match ammo (ADI headstamps) in them and have had easily sub-MOA accuracy and zero pressure signs.
    Click to expand...
    Oh, Replicas.. :) How that ?...

    Meaning with original Enfield Matchbarrels ?..

    Wow ! A very impressive Accuracy.. Surprising..
    Win. 155 gr Match ammo: Winchester-Production ?
     
    Winchester M70 Van Orden said:
    Oh, Replicas.. :) How that ?...

    Meaning with original Enfield Matchbarrels ?..

    Wow ! A very impressive Accuracy.. Surprising..
    Win. 155 gr Match ammo: Winchester-Production ?
    Click to expand...
    Stirling Conversion barrelsx 2 and one has a Lithgow conversion barrel and one has a Sportco Conversion barrel (Sportco made the famous M44 Omark target rifles). The Winchester ammo was made in Geelong, Australia for the NRA fullbore crowd. They have since stopped making ammo in Australia.
     

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    ReplicaSnipers said:
    Stirling Conversion barrelsx 2 and one has a Lithgow conversion barrel and one has a Sportco Conversion barrel (Sportco made the famous M44 Omark target rifles). The Winchester ammo was made in Geelong, Australia for the NRA fullbore crowd. They have since stopped making ammo in Australia.
    Click to expand...
    Many thanks, ReplicaSnipers :) A lot of Info..
    So totally 3 different conversion barrels, thats the explanation... All 3 are 27,5-in heavy match-barrels ?

    What a surprise with the ammo: a 155 grain Palma-Match-Factory-Load ... Because i couldn't find any such load in Winchesters Production nowadays..

    Ok... Hmm..
    So rarely we read from Palma-Match-Ammo..
    I wonder the ballistics of this 155 gr-Load.. ?!
     
    Winchester M70 Van Orden said:
    Many thanks, ReplicaSnipers :) A lot of Info..
    So totally 3 different conversion barrels, thats the explanation... All 3 are 27,5-in heavy match-barrels ?

    What a surprise with the ammo: a 155 grain Palma-Match-Factory-Load ... Because i couldn't find any such load in Winchesters Production nowadays..

    Ok... Hmm..
    So rarely we read from Palma-Match-Ammo..
    I wonder the ballistics of this 155 gr-Load.. ?!
    Click to expand...
    Sorry can’t help with that but would be comparable with other Palma Match loadings of recent times. Also predates my Labradar. An interesting side note is that Sportco was started by Jack Warne of Warne rings fame. I’m not sure if they are all 27.5” but are all heavy contour target barrels of the same era. Lithgow is obviously famous for it’s SMLE production but they also made ‘Black Mountain’ barrels and continue to make sporting arms.
     
    Thanks a lot !

    There is in my old literature a info concerning an Palma Match-Load.. The Version 1992, as far as i remember. Okay.. .

    The barrel-infos is very interesting :unsure::) - i have to check that better in a quiet moment... It's Fitnesstime..

    Have A nice weekend !
     
    The rifles are currently being cared for by a friend. A couple are now pulled apart before being rebuilt and have the scopes off them as I have just transported them from Australia to NZ where I am now living. When I get them back and have reassembled them I will definitely post some pictures.
     
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    ReplicaSnipers said:
    The rifles are currently being cared for by a friend. A couple are now pulled apart before being rebuilt and have the scopes off them as I have just transported them from Australia to NZ where I am now living. When I get them back and have reassembled them I will definitely post some pictures.
    Click to expand...
    That's it... It sounds good :) That's exciting... .

    Best regards
     
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