MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

TOP PREDATOR · Sep 11, 2009

lots of trainer questions and answers.

based on my experience and #'s through my set ups both 22 and 308 and running through a ballistics calculator that matches my range results, i came up with a drop comparison(22lr zeroed at 50 yards, .308 at 100yards,drop in inches). once again, this best matches my data, your numbers will probably differ:

22lr 40gr. .075bc 1040fps / .308win 165grSST .447bc 2600fps

22lr drop .308
50yds 0 = 100yds
75yds 2.8 = 175yds
100yds 8.3 = 240yds
125yds 17.6 = 315yds
150yds 30.8 = 380yds
175yds 47.3 = 450yds
200yds 68.7 = 510yds
225yds 92.5 = 560yds
250yds 123.9 = 630yds
275yds 158.2 = 690yds
300yds 199.9 = 770yds
325yds 248.8 = 820yds
350yds 304.8 = 880yds
375yds 367.9 = 940yds
400yds 437.6 = 987yds

using an MOA comparison

you can also do a MOA group comparison

by group size, i'd just use any targets, and shoot at different distances with the .22 until you get 1" groups - this becomes your simulated 100 yard .308 distance. 2" groups - simulated 200 yard .308 distance, and so on.

my .22 is truly only MOA (groups size wise) at 50 yards (where it is zeroed), so to roughly equal my .308 that i know is MOA at 100 yards (where it is zeroed) and based on drop of my .22, i better be getting - or at least shooting for - groups at the below sizes to match the .308 moa group sizes at their respective distance (simulating by drop):

2.4" at 100 (equals .308 at 240 yards)
3.8" at 150 (equals .308 at 380 yards)
5.1" at 200 (equals .308 at 510 yards)
6.3" at 250 (equals .308 at 630 yards)
7.7" at 300 (equals .308 at 770 yards)
8.8" at 350 (equals .308 at 880 yards)
9.8" at 400 (equals .308 at 980 yards)

so doing an MOA group coparison, at 100 yards with the .22 if you are getting 2.4" groups you are essentially getting .308 moa groups at 240 yards

post em if you got em.

Greg Langelius * · Sep 11, 2009

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

For purposes of competition and basic marksmanship training, I would consider 100yd to be the practical maximum range fior a .22lr.

For purposes of developing long range wind skills, I would consider distances of between 100yd and 200yd to be reasonably practical, and although I have gotten satisfactory performance out at 250yd, I seldom do any serious shooting beyond 200yd, and don't really do a lot of .22LR shooting past 100yd these days.

That's mainly because my accustomed LR venue has become unavailable, and unless another one opens up within my limited travel radius, training for such applications is largely impractical. If one does, I'll resume shooting the longer distances with the .22LR.

Greg

TOP PREDATOR · Sep 11, 2009

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

true, i haven't taken my 22 past 225 for the same reasons. just a "what if" kind of point of reference past 225.

bohem · Sep 11, 2009

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

Shooting out to 200 for me is getting to be routine, not easy or boring, but I routinely shoot that far with it.

I will summarize my scribbled out range card sometime and fill it in on here. Hits beyond 300 get very difficult with cheap high velocity ammo, but with the good standard velocity stuff 400y "torso" plates are manageable if the wind isn't switch directions on me too much.

Greg Langelius * · Sep 11, 2009

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

I think it's a case of challenges and accepting them. To each, their own, and more power to the adventurous...

Evilaviator · Sep 12, 2009

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

Your BC may be off a bit for the 22LR. I use .150 for my Eley ammo which is a 40gr LRN. Pulled this off the Eley website.

Greg Langelius * · Sep 12, 2009

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

Yes, my experience with std velocity/high velocity ammo generally renders a BC in the mid teens.

TOP PREDATOR · Sep 12, 2009

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Evilaviator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your BC may be off a bit for the 22LR. I use .150 for my Eley ammo which is a 40gr LRN. Pulled this off the Eley website.</div></div>

yeah i had alot of difficulty finding the actual bc for what i'm using in 22lr. for my higher velocity stuff i was using mid teen bc's and it seemed to match up on the target. my slower match stuff posed a bit more challenge to find, as far as hits on a target matching the bc's given.

without getting into calculating drag formulas, i just kept on changing the bc in the ballistic computer until the results on the program matched those that i was getting in real life on targets at various distances.

buffybuster · Sep 12, 2009

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

Wolf MT seems to have an effective BC of about .135-.140. That's what tracks for me out to beyond 200yds.

dinc · Sep 12, 2009

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

Top Predator,

The challenge in comparing .22LR to .308 Win is not in comparing elevation drop rates, it's in comparing wind drift.

Elevation changes, even over extended ranges as long as the conditions are easily descernable and completely repeatable, are just an exercise in getting the range correctly and then dialing it in. True you have to put more cranks on a .22 than you do on a .308, but you have to put even less on a .243.

The chart you need to make is one comparing wind drift. That, and the variablilty built into the .22LR with it's heal-base bullet, is where the challenge comes into trying to learn to shoot long distances and read wind with the .22LR vs. a CF cartridge. Make that chart and use it when comparing how well you are doing with a .22LR. Keep up the good work. DC

TOP PREDATOR · Sep 12, 2009

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

i'm working on the wind drift one, i have 1 for each, just got to match the numbers up.

my thoughts on the drop chart was that if i'm shooting at 100 with a 22 and it drops 8.3", at what yardarge would my 308 drop 8.3" ? ....answered at 240 yards (at least with my set up).

so the next question would be....

if my 22lr, at 100 yds, drifts 5" with a 7mph 3:00 wind, my .308 drifts 5" at what distance with the same wind? answer is 300yards (at least with my set up), and is pretty darn close to what i get on paper.

i know that windage is super important, however to me, right now drop takes precedence over windage, so when i'm shooting at my 200 yard range and i have a guy next to me bustin my stones cause i'm using a 22, i'll have some data to say i'm simulating shooting a .308 at 510 yards.

then if the shooting gods are on my side and i pull off a 5" group, i can say i'm simulating a sub moa .308 at 510 yards. because i'm a natural loud mouthed cocky asshole, if the guy next to me shoots a +2" group, i can point out that on scale my "puny" 22 just outshot his .308

TOP PREDATOR · Sep 12, 2009

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

the tough thing is to find a "true simulation / trainer" for the .308, perhaps by a change of 22lr ammo to equal both drop and windage characteristics of the .308

as shown above at 100 yards the drop equals 240, but the windage is 300. perhaps by finding a 22 ammo (maybe high velocity)that comes closest to mimicing both drop and windage at several distances (if possible) would be the key to finding that TRUE simulation.

if not possible, one would have to settle for a 22 ammo that would be based on either the drop or windage of .308, (that would be of a personal preference i guess). mine would be drop, as i think it would be better in my case to go with elevation. it's usually easier and more consistantly predict bullet drop with the constants of gravity, temp., alt., and humidity, as compared to the wind which can make so many drastic changes in speed and direction at 100 and 200 and how much it affects the 22 at those ranges, and you can only get a truly accurate wind reading at your shooting station.

however my 22 shoots well enough as it's own entity, and i spent too much time getting there that i don't care if it mimics my .308 or not, just shooting it for what it is.

but will be working on a .22 to .308 wind chart, none the less

dinc · Sep 13, 2009

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

Like you said, the 'puny' .22 shoots well as its 'own entity.' Good shooting.

boltstop · May 21, 2010

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

I know I'm digging this up from the dead, but GEEZE what a GREAT THREAD!

JR_V · May 21, 2010

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

No this one had a slight pulse still. Interesting info here.

Brasscow · May 22, 2010

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

Very interesting. Thanks Top. I will look forward to the wind table. When I shoot 22 out to 200 (not often enough) I am always amazed how much wind I can put on it even in a slight breeze.

bruno86 · Feb 10, 2012

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

Bump. Good thread

futurerider103 · Feb 10, 2012

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brasscow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very interesting. Thanks Top. I will look forward to the wind table. When I shoot 22 out to 200 (not often enough) I am always amazed how much wind I can put on it even in a slight breeze.

</div></div>
My range is 282yds with about a 25%-30% down grade to my targets and a lot of the time I can't feel a breeze but I can hear the trees around me making some noises and its crazy that that tiny bit of wind can make 5in-8in of windage

TOP PREDATOR · Feb 10, 2012

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

that grade at that distance will mess with you too - the whole cosine / angle shooting thing.

thanks for the ressurection, to follow up i played with a wind conversion chart, but was hard to put to an objective confirmation of that chart past 75 yards. the days i put the conversion to the test it looked promising at 50 yards, but at 100 and further the wind switched back and forth enough and caused "multiple drifts" with the 40 gr .22lr that it was difficult to make a usable wind conversion / simulation chart that was repeatable in reality.

evertyhing works well using ballistic tables and drag models as it sits on the computer screen, but it was, at least for me, hard to validate a repeatable wind conversion to .308 in actual field conditions.

futurerider103 · Feb 10, 2012

Re: MY .22 lr to .308 win COMPARISON TABLES

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOP PREDATOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that grade at that distance will mess with you too - the whole cosine / angle shooting thing.

thanks for the ressurection, to follow up i played with a wind conversion chart, but was hard to put to an objective confirmation of that chart past 75 yards. the days i put the conversion to the test it looked promising at 50 yards, but at 100 and further the wind switched back and forth enough and caused "multiple drifts" with the 40 gr .22lr that it was difficult to make a usable wind conversion / simulation chart that was repeatable in reality.

evertyhing works well using ballistic tables and drag models as it sits on the computer screen, but it was, at least for me, hard to validate a repeatable wind conversion to .308 in actual field conditions. </div></div> I read an article from the shoting line that I wish I had still so I could post it but gave a great explanation and helped a lot with shooting on inclines/declines.
As for your windage chart I think that would be so hard with a light .22lr bullet bc you don't nessecarly have to have a constant wind just a butterfly farting in east China makes a huge difference from what i've come to find out an not just side to side but also the wind comming from your back or front straight on makes a huge difference.
I don't have a wind meter but from my explanation in my prior post if the wind was comming from my back I would aim I believe about 1 1/2 mil dots high and at 282yds thats a bit of difference in elevation change

jackd · Dec 5, 2021

TOP PREDATOR said:
lots of trainer questions and answers.

based on my experience and #'s through my set ups both 22 and 308 and running through a ballistics calculator that matches my range results, i came up with a drop comparison(22lr zeroed at 50 yards, .308 at 100yards,drop in inches). once again, this best matches my data, your numbers will probably differ:

22lr 40gr. .075bc 1040fps / .308win 165grSST .447bc 2600fps

22lr drop .308
50yds 0 = 100yds
75yds 2.8 = 175yds
100yds 8.3 = 240yds
125yds 17.6 = 315yds
150yds 30.8 = 380yds
175yds 47.3 = 450yds
200yds 68.7 = 510yds
225yds 92.5 = 560yds
250yds 123.9 = 630yds
275yds 158.2 = 690yds
300yds 199.9 = 770yds
325yds 248.8 = 820yds
350yds 304.8 = 880yds
375yds 367.9 = 940yds
400yds 437.6 = 987yds

using an MOA comparison

you can also do a MOA group comparison

by group size, i'd just use any targets, and shoot at different distances with the .22 until you get 1" groups - this becomes your simulated 100 yard .308 distance. 2" groups - simulated 200 yard .308 distance, and so on.

my .22 is truly only MOA (groups size wise) at 50 yards (where it is zeroed), so to roughly equal my .308 that i know is MOA at 100 yards (where it is zeroed) and based on drop of my .22, i better be getting - or at least shooting for - groups at the below sizes to match the .308 moa group sizes at their respective distance (simulating by drop):

2.4" at 100 (equals .308 at 240 yards)
3.8" at 150 (equals .308 at 380 yards)
5.1" at 200 (equals .308 at 510 yards)
6.3" at 250 (equals .308 at 630 yards)
7.7" at 300 (equals .308 at 770 yards)
8.8" at 350 (equals .308 at 880 yards)
9.8" at 400 (equals .308 at 980 yards)

so doing an MOA group coparison, at 100 yards with the .22 if you are getting 2.4" groups you are essentially getting .308 moa groups at 240 yards

post em if you got em.

Great job! Very interesting though
Most 22 match Ammo G1 bc is listed around .130 ( Wolf Match target) and 1050 ft/s which would change all the drop calculations
Real world my Wolf Target actual drop at 200 is 55” vs

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