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NFA and Bonnie and Clyde

armorpl8chikn

armorpl8chikn

Colonel Angus
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Aug 17, 2010
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We see a lot of knee jerk actions on assault weapons. I never hear much talk of the benchmark of our firearms laws being dissected in the manner we dissect current encroachments. It's possible I am not listening to be sure. I've always viewed NFA items as unattainable by yours truly. I personally don't believe it is Constitutional. I guess I haven't studied it much due to the fact I've never lived in a county that would "allow" me to own a full auto. I think possibly erroneously maybe I'm wrong in my assumption were I to obtain a trust. At any rate, I'm for it but it is beyond my economic capabilities (thanks Ronnie).

Anyway

I just watched The Highwaymen. I know that's Hollywood, or in this case Nutfux, but it looked pretty close to reality. Whenever I watch a "based on" story, I start using my google-fu many times before I'm done watching. I'll reserve my comments on actual accounts of the takedown. My desire is the discussion of how, or if, this was an event that caused a "knee jerk" of epic emotional proportions.

B&C were.....apprehended, on May 23 1934. The NFA was enacted June 26 of 1934.
Was this a law that had been stewing for some time? Was it a reaction to the "public enemy" era? The answer to that would appear obvious.
Is there any suggested reading on this?

The most striking and surreal moment for me was when Frank Hamer walked into a gunshop and purchased his weapons. The gunshop owner didn't know him from a ham sammich, just started laying them on the counter. The amount of freedom involved was a ....I need Veer to give me a word.....just....it hit me in the gut.
I'm sure that wasn't the intention of the producers of this film, quite the opposite I bet.

Anyway. I'm intrigued. It was a good movie, but the little digging I've done so far has raised my eyebrows.

B&C were bad eggs I'm sure and I'm not interested in painting them as folk heros, though they were most certainly that.

I am more interested in how they or those like them colored the first real encroachment on our 2A since this country was formed.
 
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armorpl8chikn said:
We see a lot of knee jerk actions on assault weapons. I never hear much talk of the benchmark of our firearms laws being dissected in the manner we dissect current encroachments. It's possible I am not listening to be sure. I've always viewed NFA items as unattainable by yours truly. I personally don't believe it is Constitutional. I guess I haven't studied it much due to the fact I've never lived in a county that would "allow" me to own a full auto. I think possibly erroneously maybe I'm wrong in my assumption were I to obtain a trust. At any rate, I'm for it but it is beyond my economic capabilities (thanks Ronnie).

Anyway

I just watched The Highwaymen. I know that's Hollywood, or in this case Nutfux, but it looked pretty close to reality. Whenever I watch a "based on" story, I start using my google-fu many times before I'm done watching. I'll reserve my comments on actual accounts of the takedown. My desire is the discussion of how, or if, this was an event that caused a "knee jerk" of epic emotional proportions.

B&C were.....apprehended, on May 23 1934. The NFA was enacted June 26 of 1934.
Was this a law that had been stewing for some time? Was it a reaction to the "public enemy" era? The answer to that would appear obvious.
Is there any suggested reading on this?

The most striking and surreal moment for me was when Frank Hamer walked into a gunshop and purchased his weapons. The gunshop owner didn't know him from a ham sammich, just started laying them on the counter. The amount of freedom involved was a ....I need Veer to give me a word.....just....it hit me in the gut.
I'm sure that wasn't the intention of the producers of this film, quite the opposite I bet.

Anyway. I'm intrigued. It was a good movie, but the little digging I've done so far has raised my eyebrows.

B&C were bad eggs I'm sure and I'm not interested in painting them as folk heros, though they were most certainly that.

I am more interested in how they or those like them colored the first real encroachment on our 2A since this country was formed.
Click to expand...
B &C certainly played their part in the Public Enemy era, but I think if we were to lay blame it would be more on Capone, Dillinger, etc., who shot up the cities with Tommy Guns....
 
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I seem to recall it was a response to the St. Valentine massacre. Although Clyde was definitely a gun guy. He modified his own BAR- chopped the barrel which means he likely reworked the gas system. Yes- lots more freedom back then. Prior to that it was not unheard of for the families of our deployed troops to go buy them a MG at the hardware store and ship them to their boy/husband to up the firepower Uncle Sam had provided. In fact, the two Colt 1895s the Rough Riders had at San Juan Hill were exactly that- conviniently chambered it the same round as the Spanish Mausers.

Liked the movie.
 
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FDR "New Deal on Crime" was behind NFA due mainly in part to things like "Valentines Day Massacre" and mob violence with automatic weapons.

Bonnie and Clyde broke into National Guard Armories and stole most of the weapons they used.

Lots of mythology about those two out there.
 
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A lot (a large majority) of the automatic weapons back then were purchased by big companies for security, the highest dollar sales of Thompsons today generally come with letters of authenticity tracking them to the original seller and owner.

Law enforcement didnt have much in the way of FA. The FBI started out, agents not carrying guns at all.

I didnt watch the movie, but Frank Hamer used a remington model 8 rifle, not a full auto.
 
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Frank Hammer had a model 8 in the movie. Could have been a later model 81, not sure of the visual differences if any. And it was only in a few shots so not sure anyone could tell anyway. In the movie it had standard 5 round mag, I thought he had a 20 round mag made for it in real life.
 
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Seen pics of 10 round mags for the 8, and that was my understanding what he used. Dont have any "go to" info on the 20 rd.
 
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This is the best I've seen on Frank Hamer

'Texas Ranger' examines the life of the ultimate Texas lawman - News - Austin American-Statesman - Austin, TX
www.statesman.com

'Texas Ranger' examines the life of the ultimate Texas lawman

Most folks know Frank Hamer (1884-1955) as the Texas Ranger renowned for hunting down and killing notorious outlaws Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow in 1934. Hence the title of historical writer John…
www.statesman.com

Screenshot_20190408-090727_Chrome.jpg
 
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This is the most descriptive on B&C I've seen, of all the books on them, and Pop was from OK and a big family who lived through parts of B&C activity. Their comments were this book was the most accurate.

Kinda neat, growing up, hearing stories from people who lived some of that stuff.

Screenshot_20190408-091245_Chrome.jpg
 
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I remember (now) seeing that b4, and I, like you, think it was in the American Rifleman.
 
2ndamendfan said:
I know it is just Wikipedia, swear I read it in American Rifleman 20 years ago. This was just something I found fast.
View attachment 7057354
Click to expand...

The 8/81 are very interesting firearms. I've got an 81 chambered in .35 Remington. They sure put down pigs in a hurry, and are surprisingly accurate considering how much shit goes on when a round is fired.
 
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QuickNDirty said:
The 8/81 are very interesting firearms. I've got an 81 chambered in .35 Remington. They sure put down pigs in a hurry, and are surprisingly accurate considering how much shit goes on when a round is fired.
Click to expand...
Mine is in 300 savage, same as Grandpa's. Hope to own his one day, but the way family is I resourced mine own years ago.
 
We got the stupid NFA and the endless destruction of our 2nd amendment rights thanks to stupid moralistic churchgoing idiots who wanted to stop other people from drinking alcohol and wanted the government to use guns to stop people drinking alcohol.

So alcohol got made illegal by bending the constitution every which way. Then of course since alcohol has been a part of human society since the beginning of time, the criminals took it up. More money = more violence.... so how to fix the problem??? Typical government fashion... let's twist the constitution to the breaking point by abusing our "taxing" authority to imprison people for not paying taxes on things.... that we won't let them pay the tax on.... Yes that will be excellent because of course criminals will comply with the law.

Eventually the stupidity of Prohibition got repealed for the most part, but we never got back our rights and the government now claimed more power to start banning everything they wanted on a whim and start making "Possession" a new class of crime where just having an inanimate object or agricultural product in your own house doing absolutely nothing wrong to anyone, just in a box on the shelf, now made you an evil Felon that they can demonize and get everyone to agree with taking away all your rights.

Yet stupid "good" people today didn't learn the lesson and decided to do it all over again with the "drug war", except unlike prohibition, the money was simply too good at all levels so nobody ever seriously wanted to repeal it in full. Now some states are basically saying federal law doesn't apply to us for some things.... but all the civil rights we have lost are still lost, probably till the end of our current setup.
 
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W54/XM-388 said:
We got the stupid NFA and the endless destruction of our 2nd amendment rights thanks to stupid moralistic churchgoing idiots who wanted to stop other people from drinking alcohol and wanted the government to use guns to stop people drinking alcohol.

So alcohol got made illegal by bending the constitution every which way. Then of course since alcohol has been a part of human society since the beginning of time, the criminals took it up. More money = more violence.... so how to fix the problem??? Typical government fashion... let's twist the constitution to the breaking point by abusing our "taxing" authority to imprison people for not paying taxes on things.... that we won't let them pay the tax on.... Yes that will be excellent because of course criminals will comply with the law.

Eventually the stupidity of Prohibition got repealed for the most part, but we never got back our rights and the government now claimed more power to start banning everything they wanted on a whim and start making "Possession" a new class of crime where just having an inanimate object or agricultural product in your own house doing absolutely nothing wrong to anyone, just in a box on the shelf, now made you an evil Felon that they can demonize and get everyone to agree with taking away all your rights.

Yet stupid "good" people today didn't learn the lesson and decided to do it all over again with the "drug war", except unlike prohibition, the money was simply too good at all levels so nobody ever seriously wanted to repeal it in full. Now some states are basically saying federal law doesn't apply to us for some things.... but all the civil rights we have lost are still lost, probably till the end of our current setup.
Click to expand...

Excellent, well thought out reply. Thank you.
I had not considered the puritanical busybody slant. Though I identify as Christian, I do not toe the puritanical line. Had we as a group(Christians) took a different stance long ago many of these rights wouldn't have been encroached. Instead, we took a self righteous statist slant. Many still take a statist slant.
We let Fed government out of a tight box to suit our own druthers. Our own moral proclivities. That includes the shit that was pulled 158 years ago. It was morally correct, and that makes it ok.
As to the elephant in the room....
We have two groups arguing over the legality of murder. Shit this is a mess.
It's gonna come to a head again, it's inevitable.

Thanks for the reply @W54/XM-388 this is what I was kinda driving at. I wanted confirmation that this isn't some new phenomenon we are experiencing. I'm all for dangerous freedom. If they want to kill babies in Virginia, that's Virginia's voters problem. Let the states decide, a novel concept, and ground we have already chewed one time.
 
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armorpl8chikn said:
Excellent, well thought out reply. Thank you.
I had not considered the puritanical busybody slant. Though I identify as Christian, I do not toe the puritanical line. Had we as a group(Christians) took a different stance long ago many of these rights wouldn't have been encroached. Instead, we took a self righteous statist slant. Many still take a statist slant.
Click to expand...

Interestingly enough being puritanical doesn't seem to be a specifically "religious" thing, the "Athiest" types also are rather puritanical.
While the "Christian" types were all puritanical about wanting the government to send people with Guns to stop people doing alcohol and drugs at gunpoint, just look at California, the SJW idiots now making it illegal to use plastic straws and if you give someone a straw at your business the guys with guns will show up to coerce you not to use straws at gunpoint.

Basic problem in this country, nobody wants true freedom, everybody wants freedom to do what they want & then harsh government power to make everybody also do what they want.
 
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W54/XM-388 said:
Interestingly enough being puritanical doesn't seem to be a specifically "religious" thing, the "Athiest" types also are rather puritanical.
While the "Christian" types were all puritanical about wanting the government to send people with Guns to stop people doing alcohol and drugs at gunpoint, just look at California, the SJW idiots now making it illegal to use plastic straws and if you give someone a straw at your business the guys with guns will show up to coerce you not to use straws at gunpoint.

Basic problem in this country, nobody wants true freedom, everybody wants freedom to do what they want & then harsh government power to make everybody also do what they want.
Click to expand...
"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof."

Another excellent point sir.
 
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j-huskey said:
Seen pics of 10 round mags for the 8, and that was my understanding what he used. Dont have any "go to" info on the 20 rd.
Click to expand...

The Model 8 he bought at Potemckeys Sporting Goods in Austin and got the 20 round mag from POE (Peace Officers Equipment) , an outfit out of St. Josephs, MO which made them.

Edited- well duh. Thats what I get for clicking reply before I read through the thread.
 
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If you read about the trial where the law was approved, there was no representation for the "no" side. The government basically won because there was no one to provide an argument in court that would have easily struck it down.

At least that is what I remember reading some time ago
 
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After watching that texas ranger buy a trunk full of weapons and ammo, I am more than certain the NFA violates our 2A rights. That is how it should be, zero infringements. Got me thinking a cut down BAR, a dual pistol grip cut down M1A1, and a moon clipped 45 would be fun!
 
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