• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

One more shortage....

Hobo Hilton

Hobo Hilton

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 4, 2011
11,714
11,367
72
Pacific Northwest
A shortage of a critical part used to build basements in new homes threatens to bring construction to a standstill, delivering the latest blow to an industry that has been squeezed by rising mortgage rates and a lumber deficiency.

Flat steel form ties, a small piece of metal that ties together aluminum panels that make the walls, allowing builders to pour concrete in between, are in short supply due to a number of factors including just-in-time inventory, tariffs on imports and the supply chain impacts of COVID-19.
_____________
“A Little Neglect May Breed Great Mischief” Root-Cause Thinking Reveals That We Are Only as Strong as Our Weakest Link “For want of a nail, the shoe was lost. For want of a shoe, the horse was lost. For want of a horse, the rider was lost. For want of a rider, the battle was lost. For want of a battle, the kingdom was lost, And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.”
___________________
www.foxbusiness.com

Home construction may hit skids as new supply shortage looms

A shortage of a critical part used to build basements in new homes threatens to bring new construction to a standstill, delivering the latest blow to an industry that has been squeezed by rising mortgage rates and a lumber deficiency.
www.foxbusiness.com www.foxbusiness.com
 
  • Like
Reactions: nikonNUT and clcustom1911
So the globalists kill the US economy and the nascent domestic supply chain, which stood up would have been good for the US worker/economy, by introducing the scamdemic.....

So now when does the drum beat start that the US cant build shit as simple as a form tie and we need to rely on China and the global market if we intend to get anything done.

Lots of treason in DC.
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: 5RWill, camocorvette, deersniper and 13 others
I wouldn't want to have to build a house right now. Lumber prices are out of this world. They say rebar is going up and now you're talking about these form ties. I wonder how long it will be before Teco hangers are gone from the shelves? Then you wonder about nails.

The cost of lumber is concerning to me. Lumber isn't something that you can source from another manufacturer or open up another plant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HiDesertELR
I just bought flooring for my cow trailer, 10 years ago it cost me 220.00 for oak. Yesterday was 461.00 for treated pine the oak was going to be damn near double. It’s crazy
 
  • Wow
Reactions: HiDesertELR
A major US producer (DeCristo) was sold in a leveraged deal and went bankrupt a few years later when tilt-up construction all but stopped. Concrete accessories have moved to China for manufacturing like other sectors. That was 10+ years ago but a step toward where we are now.
 
  • Sad
Reactions: camocorvette
I’ve been a builder for over 30 yrs and I can tell you that it’s bad out here. We are able to get product but what we use to get in days can take months. An example is I’m finishing up a new house I ordered the appliances when we poured the foundation that was 4 plus months ago. Just checked last week everything still isn’t in. I’m certainly concerned about my future and for the guys who work for me I feel a huge obligation to keep them working as well, we all need to make a living.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: camocorvette, Ravenworks, Jumper and 5 others
Devildog said:
I’ve been a builder for over 30 yrs and I can tell you that it’s bad out here. We are able to get product but what we use to get in days can take months. An example is I’m finishing up a new house I ordered the appliances when we poured the foundation that was 4 plus months ago. Just checked last week everything still isn’t in. I’m certainly concerned about my future and for the guys who work for me I feel a huge obligation to keep them working as well, we all need to make a living.
Click to expand...
I finished an addition to my home just over a year ago. 2x4's were about $2.99 then. Today, $7.50 or so depending on whether its 'whitewood' or yellow pine.
 
Last edited:
  • Wow
Reactions: Bender
We just bought $15k in plastic boxes for resi wiring.

Most are made in Plano, Texas. Between the snow, plandemic, and crazy building we found our normal supplier out of stock. We figured that is a 3-6 month supply depending on how quick the projects start moving this spring.
 
  • Like
Reactions: oneshot86
Maggot said:
I finished an addition to my home just over a year ago. 2x3's were about $2.99 then. Today, $7.50 or so depending on whether its 'whitewood' or yellow pine.
Click to expand...
I hear ya, 7/16 osb plywood was $6-8 a sheet a year ago, it’s $33 -35 a sheet right now. As soon as interest rates start climbing and other cost like fuel exc. goes up it’s 2008 all over again. This time the ship may sink! It’s not good!
 
  • Like
Reactions: HeavyAssault
Devildog said:
I hear ya, 7/16 osb plywood was $6-8 a sheet a year ago, it’s $33 -35 a sheet right now. As soon as interest rates start climbing and other cost like fuel exc. goes up it’s 2008 all over again. This time the ship may sink! It’s not good!
Click to expand...
IDK, in my area, central Virginia, they are building like there's no tomorrow. I reckon most of the financing had been done some time back, but still...
 
BullGear said:
I wouldn't want to have to build a house right now. Lumber prices are out of this world. They say rebar is going up and now you're talking about these form ties. I wonder how long it will be before Teco hangers are gone from the shelves? Then you wonder about nails.

The cost of lumber is concerning to me. Lumber isn't something that you can source from another manufacturer or open up another plant.
Click to expand...
I'll try not to hijack my own topic...... But, here in the West there have been (and will be more) massive forest fires that burned millions of acres of saleable timber. I watched lumber mills in Oregon and Washington simply shut down and town's become ghost town's.... Remember the "Spotted Owl".... If, and that's a big IF timber could be harvested in order to create fire line breaks in the forest.... That would #1 Put people back to work and #2 Alleviate some of the shortage of lumber.

But, all I can do is shrug my shoulders and watch the downfall continue.

Hobo
 
  • Like
Reactions: camocorvette and Mwalex
Hobo Hilton said:
I'll try not to hijack my own topic...... But, here in the West there have been (and will be more) massive forest fires that burned millions of acres of saleable timber. I watched lumber mills in Oregon and Washington simply shut down and town's become ghost town's.... Remember the "Spotted Owl".... If, and that's a big IF timber could be harvested in order to create fire line breaks in the forest.... That would #1 Put people back to work and #2 Alleviate some of the shortage of lumber.

But, all I can do is shrug my shoulders and watch the downfall continue.

Hobo
Click to expand...
The burned timber is still usable is it not? The problem I heard is that the environmentalists still wont let them go in and harvest it.
 
Maggot said:
IDK, in my area, central Virginia, they are building like there's no tomorrow. I reckon most of the financing had been done some time back, but still...
Click to expand...
Owe I agree, things are booming but I’ve rode a lot of ups and downs in my years. When things get the way they are know it won’t be long and it’ll drop like a rock and a bunch of greedy builders that have there necks out to far will soon get them chopped off. Watched it happen and it’s coming again and I fear sooner then later.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Maggot
Maggot said:
The burned timber is still usable is it not? The problem I heard is that the environmentalists still wont let them go in and harvest it.
Click to expand...
The environmentalist won’t “let” them?! WTF does that even mean? Do the tree fuckers own the land or trees? Some people need to have their priorities corrected.
 
  • Like
Reactions: camocorvette, Maggot and Hobo Hilton
I can't wait to find out what retarded amount of money the guy building behind me ended up actually spending in regards to a house he was told would be around $600k. He has to be into it for double if not triple that with the material costs that his shitty fly by night builder he brought along, can barely get.
 
  • Like
Reactions: clcustom1911
Maggot said:
The burned timber is still usable is it not? The problem I heard is that the environmentalists still wont let them go in and harvest it.
Click to expand...
That is part of it.... We had the "Roaring Lion Fire" here in the Bitterroot... Winter set in and the mud runoff was terrible into the river. Next the "Approved" timber contractors went in and tried to get some of the standing dead trees... that was short lived because they just could not make any profit off of the wood. Then it was opened up to the local firewood cutters. I have some photos somewhere of them dealing with the smut and tar on the firewood... The carbon residue dulled the chainsaw chains in short order.... It remains a mess up on that mountain. Many homeowners took the insurance settlement money and abandoned the property....
 
  • Sad
Reactions: Maggot
acudaowner said:
think that's bad wait till food gets hard to find things are going just how the dims wanted them down the drain and fast .
Click to expand...
I'm going to pick a random number here so don't beat me up.... Population of America is 331 million people. Let's say 2% of those people are in "transition" after leaving undesirable cities in America and are living rural in RV's, tent/s, shoe box apartments, etc across America. They can't grow a garden or skin a deer. Already, many local 'Food Banks" are running out of food... Where will these 6 million people turn when the food supply chain breaks down ? They can't eat that EBT card the government will be handing out.
 
  • Like
  • Angry
  • Sad
Reactions: camocorvette, Mwalex and Maggot
Hobo Hilton said:
I'm going to pick a random number here so don't beat me up.... Population of America is 331 million people. Let's say 2% of those people are in "transition" after leaving undesirable cities in America and are living rural in RV's, tent/s, shoe box apartments, etc across America. They can't grow a garden or skin a deer. Already, many local 'Food Banks" are running out of food... Where will these 6 million people turn when the food supply chain breaks down ? They can't eat that EBT card the government will be handing out.
Click to expand...
It wont be purty. Im pretty well stocked and add a few things to the stock each time I go to the grocery. The tough part will be no fresh veges or fruits except in the summer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: camocorvette
The rodeo chedisky was closed to logging for 10 years because of environmental lawsuits. The part that was on the white mountain apache tribe was being logged as soon as the fire was out. The ecofreaks dropped the lawsuits after the the timber on the national forest was rotted. 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
 
  • Sad
Reactions: Jgunner and Hobo Hilton
I about had a coronary when I saw the price of 12ga solid copper wire at Lowe's!!!!

Then after getting over that, I see petroleum distillate has gone up another 40 cents since I last bought in mid-Feb. Don't worry, this housing boom is going to come to a dramatic end very shortly after the current polices take firmly hold.
 
  • Sad
  • Like
Reactions: Maggot and Bender
BytorJr said:
I about had a coronary when I saw the price of 12ga solid copper wire at Lowe's!!!!

Then after getting over that, I see petroleum distillate has gone up another 40 cents since I last bought in mid-Feb. Don't worry, this housing boom is going to come to a dramatic end very shortly after the current polices take firmly hold.
Click to expand...
The current gas price spike isnt Joe's fault, its due to the Saudi's and OPEC making dramatic cuts once they put the Texas and northern oil fields out of business. Cutting the pipeline will affect prices later.
 
When I worked in a sawmill in Northern B.C., we ran 'burnt wood' for more than a year. It was in an attempt to salvage anything we could out of the forests and valley's that were burned in a forest fire.

'burnt wood' definitely is harder on the machines. It is more erosive to the process. The quality of the product is different, too. There needs to be some BIG incentives to run that stuff out of your mill in order for it to be 'cost-effective' and still have a product that a customer can/will use in the end.

And all this is possible WHEN you keep the tree-hugging, fish-kissing, granola-munching, feather-sniffing, Kum-ba-ya-singing hippy-enviro-freak-BASTARDS out of the equation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: camocorvette and Hobo Hilton
I didn't read the article, but masonry ties and the like are stamped steel parts. They are stamped from coil.
Producing them is simple and extremely fast. The problem is that mills have throttled coil production.

I'm facing that throttling in my line of work. Steel deck (formed from coil) is 25-30 weeks out. My suppliers are telling me that the issue isn't their capacity to run the coil through their deck mills, it's that the mills they purchase the coil from has cut them back to 80% or 85% of their rolling capacity.

I asked if this was an intentional decision by the mills to keep the coil pricing high or if they were unable to produce the coil fast enough. I didn't receive a direct answer, but my vendors suggested that it was about 50/50.....difficulty getting raw material to produce coil and not caring if production is throttled because they are making money hand over fist. If you don't believe, just look up stories about Nucor's sales volumes and profits in Q1 and Q2 of this year, then compare it to any previous year you want to.....freaking mind-boggling.

Steel decking (composite or roof) last year was anywhere from $1.75 to $2.50 per sq. ft., depending on the gage or profile. I just priced a job where the average price for the same, run-of-the-mill deck was $7.12 per sq. ft. Tell me someone isn't raking the dough in!!
 
  • Like
  • Angry
Reactions: camocorvette, oneshot86, NV_Dmax and 1 other person
Jethro3898 said:
I didn't read the article, but masonry ties and the like are stamped steel parts. They are stamped from coil.
Producing them is simple and extremely fast. The problem is that mills have throttled coil production.

I'm facing that throttling in my line of work. Steel deck (formed from coil) is 25-30 weeks out. My suppliers are telling me that the issue isn't their capacity to run the coil through their deck mills, it's that the mills they purchase the coil from has cut them back to 80% or 85% of their rolling capacity.

I asked if this was an intentional decision by the mills to keep the coil pricing high or if they were unable to produce the coil fast enough. I didn't receive a direct answer, but my vendors suggested that it was about 50/50.....difficulty getting raw material to produce coil and not caring if production is throttled because they are making money hand over fist. If you don't believe, just look up stories about Nucor's sales volumes and profits in Q1 and Q2 of this year, then compare it to any previous year you want to.....freaking mind-boggling.

Steel decking (composite or roof) last year was anywhere from $1.75 to $2.50 per sq. ft., depending on the gage or profile. I just priced a job where the average price for the same, run-of-the-mill deck was $7.12 per sq. ft. Tell me someone isn't raking the dough in!!
Click to expand...
There is slab and coil sitting in containers not getting unloaded and shipped.

My price on HSS tube is at 145.75/cwt that's 3x what it was in October 2020. The steel industry is getting decimated.
 
NV_Dmax said:
There is slab and coil sitting in containers not getting unloaded and shipped.

My price on HSS tube is at 145.75/cwt that's 3x what it was in October 2020. The steel industry is getting decimated.
Click to expand...
You are so correct.
We are getting hammered right now. The thing that surprises me is that people are still buying it. How it has not collapsed under it own weight is beyond me. Since this time last year, tubing is up $1,550 per ton ($0.77 per lb). Absolutely freaking ridiculous!

HSS.JPG
Wide Flange.JPG
 
  • Like
Reactions: oneshot86
NV_Dmax said:
There is slab and coil sitting in containers not getting unloaded and shipped.

My price on HSS tube is at 145.75/cwt that's 3x what it was in October 2020. The steel industry is getting decimated.
Click to expand...

Shouldn't this make American recycled steel a better alternative?
 
Maggot said:
The burned timber is still usable is it not? The problem I heard is that the environmentalists still wont let them go in and harvest it.
Click to expand...

Sean the Nailer said:
When I worked in a sawmill in Northern B.C., we ran 'burnt wood' for more than a year. It was in an attempt to salvage anything we could out of the forests and valley's that were burned in a forest fire.

'burnt wood' definitely is harder on the machines. It is more erosive to the process. The quality of the product is different, too. There needs to be some BIG incentives to run that stuff out of your mill in order for it to be 'cost-effective' and still have a product that a customer can/will use in the end.

And all this is possible WHEN you keep the tree-hugging, fish-kissing, granola-munching, feather-sniffing, Kum-ba-ya-singing hippy-enviro-freak-BASTARDS out of the equation.
Click to expand...
Believe it or not, charred/burnt would should be preferred, especially if it’s exterior application. The reason being is because charred/burned wood actually seals it and the stuff lasts forever! Insects also don’t like it. The Japanese have been doing this on purpose in building for thousands of years.
 
I am a commercial masonry contractor. Wool building insulations had a lead time of 10 days pre-covid. I placed an order a couple weeks ago and the lead time was 8-10 months. Crazy.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: oneshot86
SilentStalkr said:
Believe it or not, charred/burnt would should be preferred, especially if it’s exterior application. The reason being is because charred/burned wood actually seals it and the stuff lasts forever! Insects also don’t like it. The Japanese have been doing this on purpose in building for thousands of years.
Click to expand...
We used to do it on the farm for fence posts. Char the part going into the ground. Nothing compares to (eastern) Red Cedar though. Ive seen cedar posts that have been in the ground 100 years and still solid and holding wire. They outlast the staples holding the wire.
 
  • Like
Reactions: camocorvette, SilentStalkr and Redheeler
Trigger Time 23 said:
I am a commercial masonry contractor. Wool building insulations had a lead time of 10 days pre-covid. I placed an order a couple weeks ago and the lead time was 8-10 months. Crazy.
Click to expand...
Stonemasonry contractor here, fortunately retired. We discovered a new type of dinosaur, the Backasore, LOL

Do you mean fiberglass insulation? Its in stock here.
 
Maggot said:
We used to do it on the farm for fence posts. Char the part going into the ground. Nothing compares to (eastern) Red Cedar though. Ive seen cedar posts that have been in the ground 100 years and still solid and holding wire. They outlast the staples holding the wire.
Click to expand...
It will either be there for 100 years or 1 year.

If the post has much white mixed in with the red it isn't worth the effort to tamp it in the hole.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SilentStalkr
packratt said:
It will either be there for 100 years or 1 year.

If the post has much white mixed in with the red it isn't worth the effort to tamp it in the hole.
Click to expand...
THats for sure but in the time these were planted there was plenty of good stuff to pick from.
 
NV_Dmax said:
There is slab and coil sitting in containers not getting unloaded and shipped.

My price on HSS tube is at 145.75/cwt that's 3x what it was in October 2020. The steel industry is getting decimated.
Click to expand...
Republic Steel is shut down due to hazmat.

Timken company Faircrest plant is empty of products and workers after first shift.
They closed Harrison,Gambirus laying off 400 jobs last month
20210824_154043.jpg
20210824_142009.jpg
20210824_141959.jpg
20210824_142014.jpg
 
  • Sad
  • Angry
Reactions: pmclaine, Hobo Hilton and camocorvette
Jscb1b said:
The rodeo chedisky was closed to logging for 10 years because of environmental lawsuits. The part that was on the white mountain apache tribe was being logged as soon as the fire was out. The ecofreaks dropped the lawsuits after the the timber on the national forest was rotted. 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
Click to expand...
Saw that and always was curious as to why. Ugh
 
Ravenworks said:
Republic Steel is shut down due to hazmat.

Timken company Faircrest plant is empty of products and workers after first shift.
They closed Harrison,Gambirus laying off 400 jobs last month
Click to expand...
This stinks to high hell. I have a 1/2 million pounds that I ordered in May and roll dates weren’t even posted and I’m still waiting on. Mills still won’t tell me when I’m going to see it.

there’s some evil cocksucking going on behind the scenes and I think it’s only going to end ugly.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: Ravenworks, Hobo Hilton and oneshot86
NV_Dmax said:
This stinks to high hell. I have a 1/2 million pounds that I ordered in May and roll dates weren’t even posted and I’m still waiting on. Mills still won’t tell me when I’m going to see it.
Click to expand...

If you don't mind me asking, what portion of the steel industry are you in?

I'm in structural steel fabrication, so the vast majority of my purchases are wide flange. We also purchase a fair amount of HSS, but almost exclusively square/rectangle. We don't do a lot of pipe work. Plate, angle and channel are what we consider "detail material" so it makes up a pretty small amount of our overall projects. We haven't experienced any significant shortages yet on the material we need for our projects. Maybe rolling dates have slid out slightly, but nothing earth shattering. We purchase as much as we can directly from Nucor (wide flange exclusively), but everything else is from a warehouse/service center. Joist and deck are another item altogether. We have these on many of our projects and the lead times are freaking nuts......but the stuff we run through our shop hasn't been too terribly hard to get a hold of.....just outrageously expensive.

I was just curious what part of the industry you are in due to the comment above. I know certain sectors are hit a lot harder than us.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hobo Hilton
NV_Dmax said:
This stinks to high hell. I have a 1/2 million pounds that I ordered in May and roll dates weren’t even posted and I’m still waiting on. Mills still won’t tell me when I’m going to see it.

there’s some evil cocksucking going on behind the scenes and I think it’s only going to end ugly.
Click to expand...
The "behind the scene" scenarios are across the board in our economy / commerce. In every discussion we have about shortages, there are some consumer's who report very little shortages but price increases. There are some cases where the middle men are selling off commodities to consumers who are paying above fair market or advertised prices. Almost a Black Market operating within the market place. Difficult to explain how the guy down the road got a load of ___________ (fill in the blank) while another guy is on a 22 week waiting list.

This is what I am seeing but again, JMHO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ravenworks
BullGear said:
Did they ship the steel to another plant???
Click to expand...
No,they're just not making anything.

Faircrest plant spent almost 750 million on upgrading their plant.
They added a continuous caster and a forge press in billet conditioning.

When they do a bottom pour and send the billets to the press they are able to make the steel to about 98% density.

They also spent about 300 million on upgrading their tube mill, they haven't even run a foot of material through it.
 
  • Sad
Reactions: Hobo Hilton
I need galvanized schedule 40 pipe, couldn't find it anywhere, so had to buy the regular stuff and send it off to be galvanized. 5-pieces of 6" cost me $4500, and the highest quote was nearly $7000. It wouldn't have cost much more to go all stainless steel.
 
  • Sad
  • Wow
Reactions: Hobo Hilton and NoDopes
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Glassaholic
Rifle Scopes March 4.5-28x52 High Master Review and Comparison to Tangent Theta 5-25x56
Replies
126
Views
17K
Scottyman
S
Maggot
Interesting story on Aussie sniper
Replies
30
Views
2K
UKDslayer
U
cal50
DOCTORS' SLANG, MEDICAL SLANG AND MEDICAL ACRONYMS
Replies
15
Views
4K
Cardboard55
C
shankster..
Lots of Interesting Facts
Replies
16
Views
2K
Thorny
Thorny
Top Bottom
Back