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Maggie’s The truth is out there

IowaPlinker

Interested amateur
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Feb 12, 2017
    416
    662
    Eastern Iowa
    Here in the comment section,
    F76B0470-F64E-47E2-B166-D294B73CF608.jpeg
    we are no strangers to having a strong opinion about things. Or using appropriate language appropriately.Today, I want to talk about one of the more divisive controversy running around out there.Not Protestant vs Catholic or other religious labels, or SEC vs PAC 10. Not even miracle whip vs. mayonnaise.
    No, this is the biggie.
    Moon landing - hoax vs real. Did we really go to the moon? Really put people out there, up there, on it, and bring them home?
    An air and space engineering company in town advertised having an actual space suit on display, open to the public, come on down and take a selfie.
    I loaded up the kids and we stood in line and I took their picture. The Boy asked me, “Was it real?” A real suit? There it is, I said. No, he was asking if it was true that our country spent a boatload of money and time to put a man on the moon.
    Fortunately, he used his polite, inside the library voice… not!
    His earnest question, which I was surprised he had, immediately drew response from people in line.
    Of course it was real! It was a hoax! No one knows! Cannot trust the government to tell the truth, ya know. We stood in line and listened. The Girl asked me, why are they arguing? Of course we put Louis Armstrong on the moon. (She was close) The Boy snorted, do you really believe that?
    The discussion was lively as we waited for our turn for a selfie. We heard about film on film, actors, why it is impossible to leave orbit, why it is impossible to return. Why it couldn’t have been done then, cannot be done now.
    We heard that we DID do it, greatest accomplishment by mankind, of course it was real. Some people got worked up, others merely shook their head.
    Honestly, the kids were kind of bored by it all. I bribed them to be there, I thought it an opportunity.
    My dad retired from that company, by a different name. He was proud of the involvement with the Apollo program. When the company evolved, and offices were being torn out, he salvaged dozens of glossy 8 by 10 color photographs with labels on the back explaining what they contained. He brought them home and had an arrangement on his office wall. I grew up seeing that arrangement and he talked about the accomplishment, the challenges, and how a group of motivated engineers could accomplish anything they set their mind to. (Teleportals would be nice, Dad. If we can fax a 3D object, why not people)
    I think if Dad had been in that line, he would have shook his head and classified the doubters as morons, or flat earth followers (oh! Other great controversy) and, hopefully, ignored them.
    Well, I took my kids to see the suit. I thought it was pretty neat.
    Then I took the kids for ice cream and ruined their appetite for supper
     
    Space draws a lot of raw emotion from people. I love space and physics. My wife has anxiety attacks when talking about space colonies, and exploring the final frontier.

    I think that it was a good parenting moment. You (knowingly) exposed your kids to a topic of controversy, and there is nothing wrong with that. The issue lies in how people respond to the difference of opinion (as evidenced my todays politicians sticking to hard and fast party platforms. Not willing to work towards compromise... but i digress).

    The controversy also means there is still an unknown which may be intriguing to young minds, leading towards a profession in the sciences.

    I wish something like that would come my way so I can enlighten my daughter.
     
    We’ve not just put a man on the moon, we’ve gone out much further than that. We’ve put satellites around other planets, why wouldn’t we be able to land on the moon? I’m not talking about flat earthers, they are just people who believe in a false ideology. Much like Christians who believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old, there is no convincing them otherwise. No amount of evidence would change their mind, that’s not science, that’s an ideology.
     
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    We’ve not just put a man on the moon, we’ve gone out much further than that. We’ve put satellites around other planets, why wouldn’t we be able to land on the moon? I’m not talking about flat earthers, they are just people who believe in a false ideology. Much like Christians who believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old, there is no convincing them otherwise. No amount of evidence would change their mind, that’s not science, that’s an ideology.
    One mans “evidence” is another’s blind ideology. Science doesn’t have all the answers either..
     
    Bigger question is why have we allowed our govt to become so corrupted that now its successes and failures are all viewed conspiratorially?

    I dont think any one considered Johnson as the source for Lincolns assassination in 1865.

    After finding out "The Gulf of Tonkin" was a manufactured ruse why not expect the Twin Towers was the same.

    If we had a functioning govt that worked for us all this crazy shit goes by the by.
     
    One mans “evidence” is another’s blind ideology. Science doesn’t have all the answers either..
    Of course it doesn't. We are discovering things all the time, but it's that quest for knowledge that drives us. As technology develops, it is allowing us to study things like we've never before.
     
    Of course it doesn't. We are discovering things all the time, but it's that quest for knowledge that drives us. As technology develops, it is allowing us to study things like we've never before.


    Just look at the science the autistics on 4chan used to find Shia LaBeoufs Trump protest flag in its un-named site in the continental US.

    Within something like 96 hours using star charts, aircraft flight patterns, weather reports and just plain old nerd intuition they located a single flag in a mega expanse of millions of square miles.

    Its pretty hard to conduct a conspiracy if you have dedicated people that want to disprove it.
     
    What is your context for that comment?
    Do you believe in (the theory of) evolution for example? Or man made global warming? I know your a fan of the scientific process and am sure you know that a hypothesis is a “educated” guess. Are you not more likely to side with a hypothesis that sounds well thought out over say an old timer telling you winter isn’t over yet because the pecan trees haven’t budded yet? Can you not see how with a preference for science you will subconsciously assume things to be true that are quite debatable? Do you believe in God? Scientists have proven prayer heals but can’t explain why. Weren’t scientists of the day claiming the world was flat before Magellan?
     
    Okay, you asked a lot of questions and I will try to answer them.

    I will start by saying science can explain every phenomena that can be observed and quantified, as long as the proper math is available.

    I do believe in evolution and it is easy to prove based on increased human height and a few other things. Evolution with animals is evident by the effects of acquired characteristics. Now, do I believe that humans evolved from primates? Not so much as I am not a pure evolutionist as I do believe in certain aspects of creation.

    A hypothesis is a guess and I have seen plenty that were not educated. It is sciences job to prove or disprove that guess and shed reality onto the topic.

    Would I believe an old timer? Absolutely, because experience has proven that I should. Science cannot not really refute what that old timer would be saying about the pecan trees either.

    Yes, a preference for science can lead to debates but being debateable does not mean that scientific facts are wrong. People often make blanket arguments based on their limited experience or exposure to a specific situation. That gets tricky because their experiences are not statistically representative of that situation. That does not make them wrong but some very important details might have been left out of their decision making process.

    Do I believe in God? Not any more. Science has proven that the mind is a powerful tool and faith is a perception driven by ones mind. I also know of many instances where prayer has not improved someones medical condition. That is a discussion for another day.

    Yes, scientist said the world was flat but go back to my first statement - "observed and quantified". The observation techniques used to counter a flat earth had not been developed and once they had no more flat earth, until a few years ago anyway.

    Science, as with anything else, can be bastardized if there is bias (a narrative or agenda) involved in the process. Global warming is an example. No one can argue that global warming is a real phenomena BUT we can argue on the causes and solutions until the cows fart us to death.


    I question your disbelief in God....

    I don't deny or disrespect your right to disbelieve.

    I say science needs to solve me this mystery though......

    How is there life?

    Science can tell me exactly how many elements and in what quantity it takes to compose a human body.

    Yet.........

    Science can not create "the divine" spark that gives it soul and animation.

    "Life" I see as a form of matter that is neither destroyed nor created, well at some point it was created but by something more powerful that gave it Genesis.
     
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    You have no fucking right to question my belief in anything. No one has the “right” to questions anyone’s beliefs. You can disagree all you want and I respect that but that ends there.

    I will not get into a religious discussion on this board but I will address the question about life and matter, as best I can. Matter cannot be created or destroyed, that is correct but that does not support or refute Creation or Creationism. Science has proven how life was created but that does not mean people will listen or accept the proposal.

    I respect Creationist and Evolutionists because those theories can go hand in hand if people would stop being so myopic.
    I believe I have the right to question any and every thing. You have the right to not answer. Science is not the only answer or the right answer but it is obviously your chosen answer. You will chose to disagree as is your right.. but your disagreeing with God not me. Short people doesn’t prove evolution. If you were to read the Bible you would find that creationism and evolution cannot exist in harmony. Even though (or especially since) you don’t believe in God you should read the Bible and find a contradiction that a (biblical) knowledgeable person cannot disprove. I’m not trying to get into a religious debate either., simply suggesting a way to scientifically disprove a book written by 66 different authors, printed more than any other book in history, longest running, with future predictions that have come to pass, and no contradictions. Be warned though your not the first scientist that set out to disprove the Bible.. no one has done it yet though.
     
    You have no fucking right to question my belief in anything. No one has the “right” to questions anyone’s beliefs. You can disagree all you want and I respect that but that ends there.

    I will not get into a religious discussion on this board but I will address the question about life and matter, as best I can. Matter cannot be created or destroyed, that is correct but that does not support or refute Creation or Creationism. Science has proven how life was created but that does not mean people will listen or accept the proposal.

    I respect Creationist and Evolutionists because those theories can go hand in hand if people would stop being so myopic.


    Mr. Hume please relax.

    I can question your right while still respecting it.

    Your beliefs are yours and I respect your right to them.

    My beliefs are mine.

    I dont deny evolution or promote any particular creation theory.

    If you deny the right to question you.......well than you are some certain type of special arent you?

    all Im saying is that in the primordial swamp of proteins and raw elements that comprise the structure of life something occurred to animate those ingredients into life.

    Nothing in science explains how that happened.

    Those one cell living things than began the long march to more complicated life.

    We can animate mechanical robots but we have not been able to animate the natural elements that comprise our earth based organisms.

    Best we can do is take life and replicate it.

    or in a dish take life and mix it with life to produce a human.

    we can not take the inanimate and animate it.

    Whatever did do that for all intents and purposes is God like.
     
    science has not and can not prove how life was created. Science has more questions than answers. Either you don’t understand or refuse to accept that science and man can not exist without a creator.