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Which $1300 Rifle.

P

Potss

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Minuteman
Feb 16, 2017
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Uses: Making tiny groups and ringing steel from 100y-1400y (max at range) from bench and prone. Hiking & hunting in the mountains.

Boiled this down to two options:

1.) Bergara HMR PRO 6.5 Creedmoor.

2.) Tikka T3x action + PVA or Bugholes pre-fit & barrel nut + yodave (or similar) trigger spring + KRG Bravo stock.

I could get either for around $1300 +/- $50. Having a devil of at time trying to decide which should be my go-to all-rounder bolt gun. I'm sure I cannot really go wrong with either, but I'd like to get the most for my money even if the differences are slight. As I see it the differences are:

- Actions: Bergara's premier action is at least as smooth as the Tikka's, but has a floating bolt head and is coned. So a win for the Bergara.

- Barrel: Bergara's is their 416R "higher end" version from Spain, supposedly with Shilen input. The Tikka could wear anything though, a Rock Creek from PVA, or a Hawk Hill/Bartlein and so on from Bugholes cut to my desired spec and contour. And it would require no gunsmithing to fit due to the barrel nut system, and can easily, quickly, and more cheaply be replaced once it is shot out. The Bergara would either need to have another factory barrel fitted or have one cut by a gunsmith once it was shot out. So a win for the Tikka.

- Triggers: Tikka's single stage with a Yodave (or similar) spring is pretty excellent, but not on part with a TriggerTech Diamond the Bergara is rocking. Not to mention that while the Tikka does now have a Timney two stage available (and a Bix'n Andy), the Bergara's R700 trigger compatibility means a way larger aftermarket if for some reason I want another trigger down the road (even though It would be a pain to re-bed on a switch). Win for the Bergara.

- Stocks: Both stocks are really nice and come with a very similar set of features out of the box. However the KRG Bravo does have more aftermarket, and doesn't require bedding like the Bergara HMR PRO stock. So a small win for the Tikka here.

- Factory Support: As many threads here on the hide have shown, Beretta's support for Tikka rifles is spotty at best. So in all likelihood, if something is wrong with the Tikka action or build, it will have to go to a gunsmith which means more time and money. The Bergara on the other hand (supposedly) has excellent factory support and good warranty work, so if there was an issue a quick trip back to the factory would likely solve it. A win for the Bergara.

They really trade blows, it is a tough choice between the two. So which would you buy for the uses above and why? Or am I missing a better option in another rifle?

Tl;dr- rifle #1 vs. rifle #2, which would you pick and why?
 
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Statistically it is a very tiny chance, which is why people let Beretta get away with such shit CS and still buy/recommend Tikka all the time. But it is something to consider between the two, and it certainly isn't unheard of. There were two threads in the last few months alone, and that is just people on the hide.

The Bergara has a smaller sample size but they don't seem to have a failure rate that is any higher than the Tikka's and have good CS to back it up if they do.

A small difference since a smith could probably fix either, but that is time and money. Almost everything between the two is a small-ish difference which is why I made the thread: hard to choose.
 
I had a chance dealing with beretta CS for warranty service over my 92a1. If you register your gun, know what part broke and you need, they send it out free of charge. Maybe I was lucky and got a CS who know what he is doing.
I agree that tikka and Sako I have never breakdown or have any issue. Only issue I have with either my tikka sporter and Sako trg22 is the guys working at range keep walking by and check them out. But both are own by beretta, but not made by beretta.
 
Yeah I'm not really worried about it, just a small note between the two. Don't really want this thread derailed on Tikka reliability, we know it is excellent (just maybe not the parent company CS).

Which of the two rifle setups in the OP would you choose and why?
 
I struggled with practicality the same choice.

I ended up ordering a Bighorn Origin action for $750 and got a KRG Bravo from brownells for right at $300 with a discount code and active junkie.

So I'm at $1050 and still need a trigger and barrel. Still waiting on the action, but I knew that going into it.

Another $100 for a used Timmy and $300-525 for a pre-fit barrel.
 
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I would go Bergara or Tikka t3x ctr. The ctr would save you about $500 that you could use towards a scope.
 
I love my Tikkas, so that's what my vote goes to. I can't imagine a Tikka with a PVA barrel shooting badly. Tikka with a PVA in a KRG Bravo would be stinking awesome!
 
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Potss said:
- Actions: Bergara's premier action is at least as smooth as the Tikka's, but has a floating bolt head and is coned. So a win for the Bergara.

- Barrel: Bergara's is their 416R "higher end" version from Spain, supposedly with Shilen input. The Tikka could wear anything though, a Rock Creek from PVA, or a Hawk Hill/Bartlein and so on from Bugholes cut to my desired spec and contour. And it would require no gunsmithing to fit due to the barrel nut system, and can easily, quickly, and more cheaply be replaced once it is shot out. The Bergara would either need to have another factory barrel fitted or have one cut by a gunsmith once it was shot out. So a win for the Tikka.

- Triggers: Tikka's single stage with a Yodave (or similar) spring is pretty excellent, but not on part with a TriggerTech Diamond the Bergara is rocking. Not to mention that while the Tikka does now have a Timney two stage available (and a Bix'n Andy), the Bergara's R700 trigger compatibility means a way larger aftermarket if for some reason I want another trigger down the road (even though It would be a pain to re-bed on a switch). Win for the Bergara.
Click to expand...
Regarding the actions, I don't think that a floating bolt head and conical shape give Bergara an advantage over the Tikka. Many acctions superior to the Bergara, like the AI and the TRG, lack both of those features. Imo the big advantage of the Bergara lies in the R700 compatibility.

Also, I don't believe that the HMR Pro has the TriggerTech Diamond trigger, although any TriggerTech is probably superior to the factory Tikka trigger.

A con for the Bergara is that the barrel on it is a bit too skinny.

Anyway, I had a similar choice to make a new month ago. None of the factory options offered exactly what I wanted, and given the relatively minor price difference I opted to pre-order a Nucleus. If you expect to keep this rifle for years to come, I'd spend a couple hundred more and build off one of the budget custom actions, like the Nucleus, Origin or the Tenacity. I think it's a much better bet than starting with a factory action, even a great one, like the Tikka. Also, consider that either those actions already comes with a rail, while the Bergara does not seem to, so you get some savings there.
 
patriot07 said:
I love my Tikkas, so that's what my vote goes to. I can't imagine a Tikka with a PVA barrel shooting badly. Tikka with a PVA in a KRG Bravo would be stinking awesome!
Click to expand...
Sure thing. I can tell because I have two Tikkas with PVA barrels, one of them in a KRG Bravo.Awesome rigs.
 
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Interesting that folks seem to feel the Bergara premier action isn't enough of a step up over the Tikka to justify the Bergara. I mean I know Tikkas are good actions, but the Bergara does seem to be in that "intro custom" territory.

As far as going with an Origin/Nucleus/Tenacity, pricing it out it ends up in the $1800-2200 range which is well beyond what I'd like to spend for this rifle. Not only is the action significantly more expensive, but you then need to buy a trigger on top of that. Plus as far as I understand it while these actions are very nice, they will likely contribute little to nothing in accuracy over the Tikka or Bergara, which means I'm paying a large premium for feel and smoothness...in a non-PRS/on the clock gun.

Anyway, Tikka build seems to be very much in the lead. Still any feedback is valuable!

dannySH, I'd love to hear your thoughts/impressions (and maybe see some paper if possible) on your PVA+Tikka+Bravo build. I may very well end up going exactly that route.
 
@Potss not a PVA but I have a Tikka with a Bartlein in an XRay. Got it in a trade while i wait for my nucleus and origin. Thing flat out shoots. Super smooth especially when you figure the price. Never have an issue with feeding or extraction. Super accurate. Chassis is great I expect bravo to be the same. Trigger with a yodave is great.

No groups to show. Rifle has never shot a 100y group but it performs in matches even if I can't.
 
Here’s how my Bergara HMR Pro shoots. Well worth it for the cash.
1EB78430-A2A9-42B1-AF2C-F49D52CC294C.jpeg
 
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I'm not sure if it was just the one, but the Bergara I felt at my local store had a really sticky/bindy bolt. Everything else about it was nice though.
The Tikkas don't bind, they are smoother than some of the custom options out there.
Personally I see Tikka's lack in CS as a non-issue since I've never needed it, and nobody I know has ever needed it. It's pretty rare for a Tikka to fail to the point of needing factory support, and if it does need fixing, it's often doable at home.
I will say though, that for similar prices, Bighorn, American Rifle Company, and Defiance are making actions that look pretty dang good. If I were starting a build with this budget, I'd start there first.
 
Well, I was faced with the same decision. I ended up going with the Bergara. The mags are ALOT cheaper and I wanted the 24" in the Tikka. I never could find one of the 24"

I shot my bergara for the first time yesterday. I made the right decision. I was going through the barrel break in recommended by Bergara. I didn't shoot for a group until the last 5 shots. I was shooting off an old picnic table with a cheap Konus bipod and a backpack for a rear bag. 5 rounds of Hornady 120gr Match all touching, about the size of a .40cal pistol casing. It's all I had on me to compare to. I've never seen a rifle shoot like this out of the box.

Now, I haven't shot both, but there is no way I could be any happier with a rifle than I am now.
 
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gingerking5566 said:
Well, I was faced with the same decision. I ended up going with the Bergara. The mags are ALOT cheaper and I wanted the 24" in the Tikka. I never could find one of the 24"

I shot my bergara for the first time yesterday. I made the right decision. I was going through the barrel break in recommended by Bergara. I didn't shoot for a group until the last 5 shots. I was shooting off an old picnic table with a cheap Konus bipod and a backpack for a rear bag. 5 rounds of Hornady 120gr Match all touching, about the size of a .40cal pistol casing. It's all I had on me to compare to. I've never seen a rifle shoot like this out of the box.

Now, I haven't shot both, but there is no way I could be any happier with a rifle than I am now.
Click to expand...
You can get the Tikka CTR in 24" at Whittakers anytime. They're around $800-$850.

Mags are expensive though, and I don't understand why at all. I'd buy another if they were reasonably priced.

Glad you're happy with your Bergara. You don't hear about many folks with a Tikka or Bergara who are unhappy.
 
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patriot07 said:
You can get the Tikka CTR in 24" at Whittakers anytime. They're around $800-$850.

Mags are expensive though, and I don't understand why at all. I'd buy another if they were reasonably priced.

Glad you're happy with your Bergara. You don't hear about many folks with a Tikka or Bergara who are unhappy.
Click to expand...

Mags are $78.82 on EuroOptics.
 
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S9 Pics 5-21-18 126.jpg
S9 Pics 5-21-18 126.jpg
This is a CTR with a Bugholes prototype 23.5" Bartlein in a German Gun Stock Predator. I was testing the 140 ELDM over my 140 RDF load. 2858 fps, SD 6, 5 shots. I think I found my load. Factory trigger is 1 lb 10 oz and I picked up 2 used magazines for $60 and $70 each shipped. If I were starting now, I would seriously consider a Bravo.

I also have a .223 Varmint using CDI bottom metal and MDT mags. I am shooting 75 grain ELDM's 2995 with H4895. The factory trigger with the Yo Dave spring is very similar to the CTR trigger.
 
patriot07 said:
No idea. But it's just a folded piece of sheet metal produced in bulk. My pistol mags are the same thing and cost about $15-$30.
Click to expand...

Metal AICS pattern mags are 60-90, plastic aics are 30-40. CTR mags are priced right in the middle for a metal mag.
 
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I'm really unsure as to why mags are an issue. The Tikka in a KRG Bravo uses AICS mags. So either rifle would be using AICS mags. And they cost about the same (as spife pointed out) even if I did get a Tac A1 or something and was limited to Tikka mags.

Still looking for feedback on either the HMR PRO or Tikka build :).
 
Potss said:
Uses: Making tiny groups and ringing steel from 100y-1400y (max at range) from bench and prone. Hiking & hunting in the mountains.

Boiled this down to two options:

1.) Bergara HMR PRO 6.5 Creedmoor.

2.) Tikka T3x action + PVA or Bugholes pre-fit & barrel nut + yodave (or similar) trigger spring + KRG Bravo stock.

I could get either for around $1300 +/- $50. Having a devil of at time trying to decide which should be my go-to all-rounder bolt gun. I'm sure I cannot really go wrong with either, but I'd like to get the most for my money even if the differences are slight. As I see it the differences are:

- Actions: Bergara's premier action is at least as smooth as the Tikka's, but has a floating bolt head and is coned. So a win for the Bergara.

- Barrel: Bergara's is their 416R "higher end" version from Spain, supposedly with Shilen input. The Tikka could wear anything though, a Rock Creek from PVA, or a Hawk Hill/Bartlein and so on from Bugholes cut to my desired spec and contour. And it would require no gunsmithing to fit due to the barrel nut system, and can easily, quickly, and more cheaply be replaced once it is shot out. The Bergara would either need to have another factory barrel fitted or have one cut by a gunsmith once it was shot out. So a win for the Tikka.

- Triggers: Tikka's single stage with a Yodave (or similar) spring is pretty excellent, but not on part with a TriggerTech Diamond the Bergara is rocking. Not to mention that while the Tikka does now have a Timney two stage available (and a Bix'n Andy), the Bergara's R700 trigger compatibility means a way larger aftermarket if for some reason I want another trigger down the road (even though It would be a pain to re-bed on a switch). Win for the Bergara.

- Stocks: Both stocks are really nice and come with a very similar set of features out of the box. However the KRG Bravo does have more aftermarket, and doesn't require bedding like the Bergara HMR PRO stock. So a small win for the Tikka here.

- Factory Support: As many threads here on the hide have shown, Beretta's support for Tikka rifles is spotty at best. So in all likelihood, if something is wrong with the Tikka action or build, it will have to go to a gunsmith which means more time and money. The Bergara on the other hand (supposedly) has excellent factory support and good warranty work, so if there was an issue a quick trip back to the factory would likely solve it. A win for the Bergara.

They really trade blows, it is a tough choice between the two. So which would you buy for the uses above and why? Or am I missing a better option in another rifle?

Tl;dr- rifle #1 vs. rifle #2, which would you pick and why?
Click to expand...
Where can I get a Bergara HMR Pro 6.5mm Creedmoor for $1,300 ?
 
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Potss said:
I'm really unsure as to why mags are an issue. The Tikka in a KRG Bravo uses AICS mags. So either rifle would be using AICS mags. And they cost about the same (as spife pointed out) even if I did get a Tac A1 or something and was limited to Tikka mags.

Still looking for feedback on either the HMR PRO or Tikka build :).
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm holding out until they make the bravo for CTR mags. If I go to AICS, I'd have to use the ones without a restrictor plate, and that means there's a decent change I'd have to take a dremel or file to my action to make the mag feed properly. I shouldn't have to modify the action to accomodate a mag. So I'm sticking with my CTR mag until the bravo is released with the CTR inlet. If that doesn't happen, I'll find a sale on a mcmillan or stick with my factory stock, which is just fine for my uses.
 
b6graham said:
why would you need to file the action to use non binder plate accurate mags?
Click to expand...
Because the MDT website said it might be necessary and I assumed since they're all the same format and support similar OAL, they would all be prone to this issue regardless of manufacturer.

https://mdttac.com/collections/poly...al-magazines-short-action?variant=42963885766

Also, the accurate mag has lots of bad reviews for scratching up brass, which my CTR mag doesn't do. And of course, I already have a CTR mag and the AICS mags are $70 apiece.
 
Euro Optic has some sub $400 Tikka T3 rifles If you decide on the Tikka build.

I'd probably go with the HMR Pro for a ready to shoot option. You could probably sell the stock and bottom metal if you don't like it for $200-300 and pick up a KRG stock.
 
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Potss said:
Statistically it is a very tiny chance, which is why people let Beretta get away with such shit CS and still buy/recommend Tikka all the time.
Click to expand...
Nobody has to deal with Beretta directly for warranty service. Just use one of their authorized warranty service centers and be done. As a Beretta shotgun user I only deal with Cole Gunsmithing when I need service or parts.

BTW, my vote is for a Howa 1500 6.5 Creedmoor barreled action and a KRG Bravo or KRG 180-Xray from Brownells.

You'll have money left over to cover a scope, if you don't go crazy on it.
 
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Never had a problem with my polymer AICS mags, both the Bergara, or from Magpul (who produces the Bergara logo magazines by the way). I won't return to metal mags that are pricier, have a tendency to get bent, corroded, scratched, or scratch stuff I don't want them to scratch. That however is my personal preference and I do respect if someone has a different take. As a unit armorer I spent more time looking at bent, corroded, dented metal magazines than I care to remember so polymer is "optically pleasing" to me LOL.
 
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b6graham said:
How often do you hear of tikkas going down though
Click to expand...
Happened to me.

OP, I own/have owned both - the Premier action is superior in every way except for the PVA barrel. It is just as smooth with less slop. My Bergara is what i'd call a .65 MOA gun. All but a couple groups have been sub MOA through a case of ammo, 5 or 6 have been about 1/4 MOA and most are .6-.75. However, the PVA is probably going to be better and more consistent. Another alternative is to shoot the Bergara until it comes time to rebarrel then run a PVA remage barrel.
 
Last edited:
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chavezz556 said:
From what I've read... Bergara will rebarrel a premier action for $500
Click to expand...
That's what I've heard and read too. If that is a stainless barrel, button honed, muzzle threaded, cerakoted and it includes the work and shipping as I was told that's hard to beat.
 
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SonicBurlap said:
That's what I've heard and read too. If that is a stainless barrel, button honed, muzzle threaded, cerakoted and it includes the work and shipping as I was told that's hard to beat.
Click to expand...
You can use a Rem-Age style pre-fit barrel for the Bergara, which would be the same price point and gunsmith options (more options, actually) for barrel replacement as the Tikka.
 
ThePretzel said:
You can use a Rem-Age style pre-fit barrel for the Bergara, which would be the same price point and gunsmith options (more options, actually) for barrel replacement as the Tikka.
Click to expand...

No you cant. Same threads, yes, but the remington is a recessed bolt face, the bergara is a coned bolt face.

Bergara
Bolt-Disassembly.jpg


Remington
IMG_8545.jpg
 
spife7980 said:
No you cant. Same threads, yes, but the remington is a recessed bolt face, the bergara is a coned bolt face.

Bergara
Bolt-Disassembly.jpg


Remington
IMG_8545.jpg
Click to expand...
According to the Bergara rep I spoke with, yes you can use prefits.
 
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