Are these rifles really as good as all the hype I read about on the internet ? I am thinking about building a US Army Vietnam era sniper rifle (XM21). Wondering if it would be worth giving up my bolt gun for one?
M1A National Match
- Thread starter para1505
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Apples to oranges.. The M1a is one of the greatest rifles of all time. Do you want to build a clone cause it looks great? 1 moa or a lil better is the norm for a NM M1a in my experience, as little as that is but hey.. Its only two cents.
Keeping the iron sights and scoping that rifle leaves a lil to be desired. You will need a cheek piece of some kind for functionality but You will soon get away from the Nam era clone you so desire. A baddass semi auto they are. The best? Well thats a matter of use and opinion.
Ch
Keeping the iron sights and scoping that rifle leaves a lil to be desired. You will need a cheek piece of some kind for functionality but You will soon get away from the Nam era clone you so desire. A baddass semi auto they are. The best? Well thats a matter of use and opinion.
Ch
The M-21 was in fact a NM M14 (not the super match). The cheek pad was nothing more then a piece of foam covered with light canvas with an elastic strap to hold it on the rifle stock. Only took a second to push it out of the way to use the sights. Normally it was installed when you put on the scope.
The cheep pad is going to be easy. The scope was an ART Leatherwood, and will be harder to find, and will be pricy if you find one.
If you look close at the below picture you can see the cheek pad.
It was a pretty good system, in fact it spent less time in the maintenance shops in SE Asia then did the Marine's M-40.
The cheep pad is going to be easy. The scope was an ART Leatherwood, and will be harder to find, and will be pricy if you find one.
If you look close at the below picture you can see the cheek pad.
It was a pretty good system, in fact it spent less time in the maintenance shops in SE Asia then did the Marine's M-40.
I do have a SWFA 10xHD I could put on it for the XM25 look. but would that be considered vintage sice that was in the 90's?
Vintage Sniper rifles as defined by the CMP for the CMP GSM games is pre- '54, so none of the systems based on the M14 will work or be aloud to be used in the CMP Vintage Sniper Matches.
The rules can be found on the CMP website, they list what rifles are authorized and what scopes can be used with those rifles.
The rules can be found on the CMP website, they list what rifles are authorized and what scopes can be used with those rifles.
I caught a similar bug a few years ago for an XM-21 build. Here are some of the details:
Armscorp NM receiver
USGI parts
Resin impregnated walnut stock
ART 2 scope
Reproduction Sionics suppressor
AN/PVS 2 starlight scope
never owned one, but shot a friends on several occasions. it was hard to put down, a peach of a rifle, smooth and comfortable and if given enough "mad money" to spend on a rifle, this would be the one (actually the super match) i'd get. perhaps even moreso than a garand.
accurate and "romantic" - can't ask for much more.
if length weight and wood isn't your flavor, there's the socom. at that point, IMO a .308 AR may be more feasible.
accurate and "romantic" - can't ask for much more.
if length weight and wood isn't your flavor, there's the socom. at that point, IMO a .308 AR may be more feasible.
I've got one and as mentioned above it's about a 1moa rifle, maybe a hair under. But to compare it to my OBR--or to a good bolt rifle which for the same money ($2,000 easy with scope mount, prob a little more) will be a .25MOA gun...
But, seriously--it's a cool piece of vintage hardware with some serious ergonomic issues compared to modern rifles, getting a good scope base is annoying (I have a basset mount, which is prob one of the most reliable ones) and without a really high cheek pad it's an actual chin weld, not even close to the cheek. The safety is annoying, the bedding/stock fit issues are annoying, the mag release is not nearly as nice as a semi auto AR type or even an FAL.
It's basically an M1 Garand (which I also have a few of) with a detachable mag. Seriously. Take them both apart and you'll see.
Again, I love mine, but it's like owning a muscle car, and selling a good bolt rifle and planning to use an M1A platform gun as a precision rifle is asking for some serious headaches. It's more something you own in addition to your bolt rifle.
But, seriously--it's a cool piece of vintage hardware with some serious ergonomic issues compared to modern rifles, getting a good scope base is annoying (I have a basset mount, which is prob one of the most reliable ones) and without a really high cheek pad it's an actual chin weld, not even close to the cheek. The safety is annoying, the bedding/stock fit issues are annoying, the mag release is not nearly as nice as a semi auto AR type or even an FAL.
It's basically an M1 Garand (which I also have a few of) with a detachable mag. Seriously. Take them both apart and you'll see.
Again, I love mine, but it's like owning a muscle car, and selling a good bolt rifle and planning to use an M1A platform gun as a precision rifle is asking for some serious headaches. It's more something you own in addition to your bolt rifle.
Couldn't agree more with the previous comments. Setting it up Vietnam style will not maximize the potential of the m14 platform. The weakest link with mine is the ART scope and mount. It's not consistent from shot to shot, 2+ moa. With the iron sights, it defintely shots 1 moa. I would't expect a project like this to give you the accuracy you've come to expect from your bolt gun. That being said, I learned alot researching and building it. It gives you a certain appreciation for what our snipers could do with the equipment they had available. The fact that the Army went with a bolt gun (M24) after the m21 says it all. But everything eventually comes full circle, hence the M110 and M14 based DMR rifles currently in use.
I don't understand why people have problems with the M-21's ART Scope (Generation I), or original ART Leatherwood scopes. I went to sniper school using the M-21 and taught sniper schools using the M-21, both for the National Guard and RA.
I never saw the problem with them, I found they held a zero quite well. Even taking them off and putting them back on.
The main problem I've seen was the shooter, not the rifle. The stadium lines on the ART scope are 30 inches. The problems I've seen was people trying to use them on the E-silhouette
target which is 40 inches then sniveling because they loose it with the elevation. I cut the targets down to 30 inches and it eliminated the problem. A guy just needs to know what 30 inches is.
A while back someone on the Hide sold me a ART MPC (Military police and civilian) version. Its stadium lines are set for 18 inches which works real well on a hunting rifle. I put it on my Model 70 257 Roberts and its the cat's meow. The average size of a deer, from the top of his back to the bottom of the stomach is 18 inches. I took it out and matched it with my range finder and found it to be quite accurate on deer. Got it dialed in for my 257 loads so I'm good for 600 yards I figure.
Forgot who sold me the scope but if he's reading this, thanks again.
I never saw the problem with them, I found they held a zero quite well. Even taking them off and putting them back on.
The main problem I've seen was the shooter, not the rifle. The stadium lines on the ART scope are 30 inches. The problems I've seen was people trying to use them on the E-silhouette
target which is 40 inches then sniveling because they loose it with the elevation. I cut the targets down to 30 inches and it eliminated the problem. A guy just needs to know what 30 inches is.
A while back someone on the Hide sold me a ART MPC (Military police and civilian) version. Its stadium lines are set for 18 inches which works real well on a hunting rifle. I put it on my Model 70 257 Roberts and its the cat's meow. The average size of a deer, from the top of his back to the bottom of the stomach is 18 inches. I took it out and matched it with my range finder and found it to be quite accurate on deer. Got it dialed in for my 257 loads so I'm good for 600 yards I figure.
Forgot who sold me the scope but if he's reading this, thanks again.
I have a Divine, TX National match M1A with a Gen 1 ART scope for over 30 years and with 168GMM or my hand loads with Sierra 168 SMK's it will shoot well under 1" @ 100 yards. Will it ever shoot as well as my AIAW or TRG 22 definitely not. But I love the rifle as it brings back fond memories of my youth.
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