brand new car urge
- Thread starter sloporsche
- Start date
Just catching up.
If thats your criteria I would NOT do a Z06. I would do a nicely optioned stingray or an e-ray.
Ive got a Z51 Stingray and its fantastic on the street. I dont plan to track it. Its my 10th Corvette, maybe 9th... best yet although my 2019 Z06 was pretty angry as well as my 600whp 07 Z06... that one was angry and very easy to drive hard.
My buddy has had Stingray, Z06 and ERay(along with about 15 other vettes)... He says for a daily the e-ray is by far the best, stingray in the middle and Z06 was dead last on his list as a daily. To stiff of suspension and no low down torque. On track its a monster, but with your criteria of "no track days" the "special" ness of the engine will be lost to daily driver duty. He says around town the ERay would demolish the Z06 from a dig, suspension is so much easier to live with, etc... I think he said Track settings on the ERay are the same stiffness as Tour on the Z06 and the Z06 spring rates are double the ERay. He is thinking about having Lingenfelter do the 427 on his e-ray... that or doing a whipple. He says a Whipple Stingray would be a tremendous street car that would shock a lot of people. Just need clutches in the trans. And I think the Stingray and E-Ray can still be tuned. Z06 ecu hasnt been cracked yet.
You seem to not want another Porsche... thats fair as they have gone into outer space with their pricing. And your criteria is likely at LEAST a Carrera 4 or 4S which would push your budget...if you can even find a new one that is. A Turbo 4 would blow your budget. Hell any kind of options on a base Carrera pushes you north of 150k in an instant.
You will not like any form of Mustang. They weigh way way way to much and IME drive heavier. We have a 24 Mustang GT vert, 6 spd, performance pack...right at 4k lbs... Ive also got the 2025 C8, which is supposedly around 3600lbs... The Mustang is a fine grand touring car, but it drives like it is far more of a weight difference of 400lbs from the C8. I dont think the Dark Horse remedies that at all, obviously lighter than a convertible, but I think they are still north of 3800lbs.
the guy I responded to is not the OP... I believe the OP has tracked and raced cars for years and years... its not what hes looking for.
pure garbage for 160k IMO.
Its a GT with a blower and some other odds and ends...
You could get a darkhorse for 75k-ish, add a 10k blower, 5k for forged wheels of your choosing, 5k for an MCS coilover suspension and still have 60k in your pocket.
If the performance car is
If the performance vehicle in question is near or over 4000lbs, just embrace a powerful 4 door and something comfortable at that point; they’re better to live with while still being stupidly fast.
If the performance vehicle in question is near or over 4000lbs, just embrace a powerful 4 door and something comfortable at that point; they’re better to live with while still being stupidly fast.
I understand that. I already replied to the OP with nothing remotely like that advice.
When we bought the Mustang my wife had one criteria(well 2 I guess): convertible and 4 seats. There is not much that checks those boxes anymore.
Mustang...
BMW has a few options but they are $$$$$$
Mercedes has an option or two, but again crazy money.
Porsche 911 Cabriolet
Mini Cooper
And thats about it...
I dont know what the Mini weights, but it was never a serious contender, for me. 911 Cab was what I really wanted, but 130-150+k was not in my budget. BMW's are all 4k+ lbs(I think whatever we looked at was like 4200 or 4400 lbs... holy shit portly). And Mercedes was the same and even more expensive than BMW...
I think MSRP on our Mustang was like 68k, I paid 60k or 61k. In 2025 that car went up I think 4500 or 5500 bucks MSRP... I wouldnt have bought it had it been another 5k bucks. Its pretty much every option you could get except magnetic ride. We use it far more as just a touring car. Its not bad, but its most definitely not a corner carver and its not confidence inspiring. The C8 is far more confidence inspiring and drives like a much lighter car IMO.
Do a turbo R8 over any of these.
B58 /S58 are great for modding. You don't think so? 7 second MKV Supras / M240i are out there.
When did I mention anything about modding anything or what I thought of it???
I said "they are fat fucking pigs of cars" which they are... MAYBE a coupe is lighter than a vert, dont know, never looked up the weight of them. But an M4 Comp vert was like 4200 or 4400lbs... thats a lot for a 2 door convertible... Probably have to get into a CSL with carbon roof to actually not be a fat pig of a car... 140k+ msrp for an M4 Comp CSL...
You mention above about making a deal on a CT4V black wing, but earlier you were talking about a CT5V blackwing...
Twin turbo 6 vs. supercharged LT motor is not in the same category...
If I was interested in a twin turbo 6 car, I would probably gravitate into a M3 or M3 Comp... I think the resale market for them is going to be far far far far far far better than a CT4V Blackwing... I think even the CT5V Blackwing, which is a far more rare and IMO desirable car, has taken a beating on the used market. M3's seem to hold their value pretty well.
A caddy dealer in ft walton has 2 blackwings a ct4v [which i like how its optioned ] and a ct5v which is stick and fuggly color [ i do not like] . They are stalling me for 2 more weeks trying to get msrp on the 4 then they said they will entertain an offer . I have not driven either but the word seems that the 4 is better suited for me . The brain dead ford dealer is playing e mail tag with me over if they are certified to install the blower 100 % on a new darkhorse [which of course i would have to order] . The only thing these hillbillies want to sell this carpetbagger is a pickup truck off their lot . I am about to go sherman on them lol
Did the Corvette thing for 22 years continuously but always had to have a second vehicle (a pickup) for all those real world tasks, like hauling all my shooting gear to the range. Over the years I tended to prefer driving the pickups over the vettes. I guess priorities change over time.
You've got the right approach, research first (including asking on forums), try to stay within your budget, and get what you want.
You've got the right approach, research first (including asking on forums), try to stay within your budget, and get what you want.
Ford dealers are fucking useless. If they are not a Ford Performance dealer, my understanding is they can not offer the FPR800(I think thats what its called on the Mustang) package. So that should be an easy question to get an answer on from said dealer... "are you a Ford Performance dealer?" thats a yes or a no and if they dont know then the answer is "no"...
Or just order the Whipple directly from Whipple and get the option that retains the 3/36k warranty. Take the car down to PBD(palm beach dyno) and get them to install it. Hell they may be a Ford Performance authorized dealer, I dont know. Steeda may also still work on cars, but their website is murky on that vs. straight parts sales. Vengeance Racing is in GA and is a Whipple dealer... they do or at least used to do killer work and is likely closer than PBD.
And just to throw it out there... since you are looking at auto cars.
If you are really interested in a Mustang... I would likely try to find a GT Premium with Performance Package. Probably save 10k over a Dark Horse. MSRP between a GT premium vs. Dark Horse premium is 19k bucks... For a pretty loaded up GT Perf pack car, auto, high package, etc... 65k... 73k for a Dark Horse premium similarly built, add another 6k for the handling package...
Brakes are the same outside the DH has 2 piece front rotors(easy to replace). When talking about putting a blower on the extra little HP bump the DH has is inconsequential. And the biggest selling point on a DH is the better Tremec manual over the MT82, which in your case is useless... You can get Recaro's in either. I think the DH and Perf Pack GT both use the Torsen rear diff. The DH gets a diff cooler. On the manual cars it gets a trans cooler also, but I think the auto cars they both have a trans cooler.
ETA: if a I lived in Ft. Walton Beach I would likely do a vert mustang and do the blower... especially like you said you dont plan to track the car. Cant get Recaro's in the vert for some reason, but otherwise you can get perf pack, etc.. and its all the same stuff the coupe gets. We love taking our car down to Port Aransas just south of Corpus Christi and driving around with the top down all week. Mustang vert trunk is still pretty damn big as the top has its own compartment it folds into. Our friends Camaro when they put the top down it takes up a lot of trunk space. So they have to pack carefully if they want to be able to put the top down while traveling.
If you are really interested in a Mustang... I would likely try to find a GT Premium with Performance Package. Probably save 10k over a Dark Horse. MSRP between a GT premium vs. Dark Horse premium is 19k bucks... For a pretty loaded up GT Perf pack car, auto, high package, etc... 65k... 73k for a Dark Horse premium similarly built, add another 6k for the handling package...
Brakes are the same outside the DH has 2 piece front rotors(easy to replace). When talking about putting a blower on the extra little HP bump the DH has is inconsequential. And the biggest selling point on a DH is the better Tremec manual over the MT82, which in your case is useless... You can get Recaro's in either. I think the DH and Perf Pack GT both use the Torsen rear diff. The DH gets a diff cooler. On the manual cars it gets a trans cooler also, but I think the auto cars they both have a trans cooler.
ETA: if a I lived in Ft. Walton Beach I would likely do a vert mustang and do the blower... especially like you said you dont plan to track the car. Cant get Recaro's in the vert for some reason, but otherwise you can get perf pack, etc.. and its all the same stuff the coupe gets. We love taking our car down to Port Aransas just south of Corpus Christi and driving around with the top down all week. Mustang vert trunk is still pretty damn big as the top has its own compartment it folds into. Our friends Camaro when they put the top down it takes up a lot of trunk space. So they have to pack carefully if they want to be able to put the top down while traveling.
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I put a few laps around the oak tree at VIR......before n after and always managed to drive my corvettes back to NJ .
VIR is fast and technical for sure. That’s where this was. $900 track insurance for the weekend and probably the max, $12K deductible. Luckily wasn’t my car but my paddock neighbor.
I have a 2022 Camaro SS with the 450 hp LT1 V8.
I also have a 2024 Nissan Z performance with a twin turbo V6 with 400 hp.
The Camaro is fun, but the Nissan Z is much more fun to drive around the streets. You can get on the Nissan more than the Camaro. The only time I can really bang on the Camaro is on the track. The power with the A10 transmission is seamless, and you can never really scratch more than the surface of the power/feel of that motor without being in super speeder territory.
I think a Miata is next after I pick up a Supra and a GT-R. Might pick up a shit box 2003 Mitsubishi Eclipse to beat on too.
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This might sound like sacrilege to a car guy who has enjoyed many sports cars and track days, but if the Ford Dealer wants to sell you a pickup real real bad, you might see what they will do an an F150 Raptor R.
Now hear me out for a moment on the pros of such an otherwise unthinkable purchase:
1.) You have a dealer close by.
2.) Not one single review of the Raptor R has not seen the reviewer thoroughly entertained by the ridiculousness of a 700+ HP street legal trophy truck/pre runner. They’re quite capable of shenanigans at a stoplight.
3.) They’re super comfortable.
4.) It’s a truck and it can still haul stuff and tow things.
5.) You can go almost anywhere in one. Go ahead explore Forest Service roads, trails, and places you wouldn’t dare take a sports car.
6.) All the local hillbillies will worship you.
7.) All weather capabilities for those times you might have to go travel in the frozen north.
8.) The exhaust tuning was apparently done by a 16 year old. Your neighbors will appreciate your 06:00 startups.
9.) You will never worry about curbs, potholes, or rough railroad crossings at grade anymore. 37” tires on 18” wheels can take a lot of abuse.
10.) There is aftermarket support if you want to do anything more to it.
VIDEO: 1,000 HP Twin-Turbo V8 F-150 is an Absolute Monster!!! - Ford-Trucks.com
Meet 'Gator', a 1,000 horsepower twin-turbo Coyote V8 F-150 built by OnDGas Racing in Houston Texas. (Don't race this guy.)
www.ford-trucks.com
hennessey builds someVIDEO: 1,000 HP Twin-Turbo V8 F-150 is an Absolute Monster!!! - Ford-Trucks.com
Meet 'Gator', a 1,000 horsepower twin-turbo Coyote V8 F-150 built by OnDGas Racing in Houston Texas. (Don't race this guy.)www.ford-trucks.com
The CT4V and CT5V are fundamentally different cars though. CT4V is a mid-size-ish sedan while the 5 is a full size sedan. Beyond the engine difference they are just vastly different platforms. MOST people who want the 5V Blackwing are after the big sedan with a 650+ HP supercharged V8 and the 4V twin turbo 6 isnt really in the same league. Kind of a "last of a dying breed" type of car. Big, supercharged v8, luxury sedan, that you can get a manual trans in... I dont think you can get that anywhere else
I’d just buy a 6th gen Zl1, unless the 4 doors/sedan is a requirement. Same platform. Same motor.
Not the same platform... at least not officially.
Gen 6 Camaro is Alpha platform. ATS and CTS were Alpha platform.
CT4 and CT5 appear to be their own platforms from what I can tell. I could believe the CT4 could be Alpha(or like a gen2 Alpha platform), but the CT5 is a decent bit bigger and im pretty sure is not Alpha platform.
looks like the blower kit voids the engine/drivetrain warranty the dealer in panama city said they can install it ,they are a ford performance dealer [he says]
Where did I mention M4? LCI cars have the same powertrain as 3/4, so if you want to spend more money for more weight, that would be up to the buyer. Idk, why are they faster than the fastest C8? Or better yet, why do all domestics seem so slow these days?
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Same platform.
The same platform will used for the upcoming Buick Grand National and the Corvette SUV. Same power plants too.
Do not put a blower on a naturally aspirated engine without tearing into the engine you gotta open up the ring gap ,you need different exhaust valves, valve springs. Rods, and pistons probably wouldn’t be a bad idea on a coyote either. You can do it without some motor work, but it ain’t gonna last
You mentioned an engine family and how modable they are... I did not mention an engine family OR making mods... I was talking about convertibles... Is there a 2 series/M2 convertible? No theres not... So therefor... M4...fucking....convertible...is a fat pig...
Stop convoluting the fucking conversation and putting things in that were never said...
And who said what is faster than another? Again, wasnt in the conversation...
You seem to think me bad mouthing the weight of a BMW convertible means I am shitting on the whole brand... no my statement is exactly what it is. I genuinely wanted to spend 100k on a BMW M4 Competition X drive convertible... great car... fat pig that it is. I was trying to find a lighter weight car, which turns out is actually easy to do when your car weighs 4200+ lbs...
but keep talking to yourself in your head...the conversation there probably makes perfect sense.
Talk to Whipple and see what it takes to retain their warranty... NOW they may be owning the power train and Ford owns the rest of the 3/36... I dont know.
You LITERALLY can have a Ford deal bolt on a whipple kit, flash a tune, and still retain 3/36 warranty... Ford sells it. Its like 13-14k installed. They offer it on the F150 5.0, Mustang 5.0 and the 7.3 Godzilla.
The blower is not even trying at those power levels. The same kit with injectors and a few other things makes like +75hp. The same kit with a pulley makes like +125hp... The stage 2 and 3 or whatever kits dont retain the warranty.
goes back to the old "dont worry an HCI C6 Z06 will still gap it"...
You didnt read what I wrote or even do a single second of research of the topic at hand. I literally posted a link to the kit, you could have easily clicked on it.
Ford/Whipple sells a kit for ~10k plus install that pushes 800hp and retains 3/36 powertrain warranty.
They sell a stage 2 setup that has injectors and a few other things with no warranty thats like +75... Then they have a stage 3 setup thats the stage 2 plus a pulley thats like +125. Those +75 and +125 numbers are over and above the original 800... which is already +300-350 over a stock motor... So 13-14k installed gets you 300+ hp over stock... Thats pretty cheap HP. There are a few F150 guys that have 50k+ miles on their setups with no issues. NOW are they beating the trucks constantly, im sure no. Its like anything else. The harder you beat it the lower the life. But the whipple on a 5.0 is a pretty proven product for power AND pretty good longevity.
You need some engine work for that kinda power. A stock coyote will not last long at that power level.
IDG a fuck what warranty it has.
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This is what will happen if you do not gap the rings.
As I said originally, you can make 7-800 (rear wheel) horsepower fairly reliably if you do what I suggest. He's got the $$ for it. Why spend all that just to skip out on a few grand in engine mods.
Sorry for glossing over your post, the stupidity of suggesting its a good idea to bolt a blower on a stock engine, run around 12psi and everything is going to be all good just doesn't compute in my head.
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There are literally a ton of people who have proven that they last quite a while at that power level...
Again if he's going to go beating on the car constantly I dont disagree with you that a built motor is the better way to go, but for the occasional blast, it'll be fine and there are tons of examples out there of that.
