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Gunsmithing Any air compressor experts around?

Phylodog

Phylodog

Hidin since '06
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 9, 2006
2,373
22
51
Arcadia, IN
I bought a 5hp 60gal Ingersoll Rand air compressor last November. Seeing how everything is made with quality in mind these days it lasted almost five months before taking a shit. It builds pressure slowly and won't build above 90psi now. The max it will build is decreasing every time I use it so apparently whatever is wrong is getting worse. I've tried contacting Ingersoll Rand but of course no one feels the need to call me back or return an email. I guess that since I only paid $800 for it they figure I've gotten my money's worth.
23158899_photobucket_16928_.jpg


Anyone know anything about diagnosing and repairing these things? Apparently I'm on my own here and I don't know shit about them other than what they cost.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

Someone sent a PM with a couple of recommendations so I thought that I would mention that I have drained the tank after every time I've used the compressor as recommended in the manual (that I can't find currently). I ran it for a short time with the filter off to see if it would build pressure any quicker but it made no difference. I can't find any adjustments on it and it would build up to 125psi and shut off when it was working properly. It hasn't seen three hours of run time since I bought it.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

Is the belt slipping?
The electric motor slowing down?
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rarebreed93</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the belt slipping?
The electric motor slowing down? </div></div>

Not that I can tell. It sounds the same as it did the day I bought it home. I'm going to take a peek at the belt for evidence of slipping though.

ETA: The belt tension is good and there is no glazing on the belt that would indicate that it is slipping. Thanks for the ideas though.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

Pressure limit switch. Does it have points like a water well pressure switch. thats the little plastic box that the wires go into. Probably has a on/off lever on the side. Has a spring inside. Makes sure nothing is loose that holds the springs or wires loose going to the contacts.
Just a guess
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cockcroft</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pressure limit switch. Does it have points like a water well pressure switch. thats the little plastic box that the wires go into. Probably has a on/off lever on the side. Has a spring inside. Makes sure nothing is loose that holds the springs or wires loose going to the contacts.
Just a guess </div></div>

Good thought, just make sure your careful in there. It is plugged in and 220V.
There is a screw in there that will allow you to change the pressure up or down.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

Find the pressure regulator and adjust it for more pressure. It should be under that plastic cover at the outlet.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

If it has adjusted itself for a lower pressure would it still shut off once it hit that lower pressure? It won't shut off on it's own, just gets hotter than hell and I shut if off so it doesn't burn up.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

Find the pressure regulator and adjust it for more pressure. It should be under that plastic cover at the outlet.

It takes a long time to build pressure because it has a large tank. Close valve when finished using, if you wish to retain pressure.

It appears to be a two stage compressor, and if it is, you should be able to attain 125 psig. Two cylinder TWO stage is better than two cylinder SINGLE stage, for pressure development.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it has adjusted itself for a lower pressure would it still shut off once it hit that lower pressure? It won't shut off on it's own, just gets hotter than hell and I shut if off so it doesn't burn up. </div></div>

The pressure regulator might be defective.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it has adjusted itself for a lower pressure would it still shut off once it hit that lower pressure? It won't shut off on it's own, just gets hotter than hell and I shut if off so it doesn't burn up.</div></div>

I may be misunderstanding, but it seems to me that you're talking about the compressor itself that gets hot. Right? As in, either the block or the head?

Myself, I'm leaning more towards the head, and if I'm correct there, then I'd say that you have a valve issue.

These are my thoughts so far, let me know what tangent to go down.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

I found the manual online and it doesn't mention anything about adjusting the regulator. I took a few pics of the control box and I can't see any place to adjust it.
P1030271.jpg


P1030272.jpg


Power on
P1030273.jpg


Power off
P1030274.jpg
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it has adjusted itself for a lower pressure would it still shut off once it hit that lower pressure? It won't shut off on it's own, just gets hotter than hell and I shut if off so it doesn't burn up.</div></div>

I may be misunderstanding, but it seems to me that you're talking about the compressor itself that gets hot. Right? As in, either the block or the head?

Myself, I'm leaning more towards the head, and if I'm correct there, then I'd say that you have a valve issue.

These are my thoughts so far, let me know what tangent to go down. </div></div>

The pump itself gets hot if I let it run. It used to build up to the 135PSI cut off in about three or four minutes. Now it will run indefinitely and never gets above 90-95PSI.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

Put the cover back on, there is too much electrics exposed.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

Sean might be onto it. It could have a defective or seized valve in the head
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

Not to familiar wtih that brand but how's the oil level in the compressor
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

ok, here's how I'm seeing it. The problem is in the compressor itself.

The pressure switch is just that, a fancy on/off switch. It is adjustable, but all it does is turn the motor on or off.

Obviously, it is running. Second obviously, the head/block gets hot.

There's an air leak somewhere, either internal or external. Have you sprayed around any of the joints with soapy water, to see if any air is leaking out of a bad joint? (I'm guessing not, but also guessing that there's no leaks.) Here's why:

As stated previously, I'm thinking that it's a valve issue in your compressor. Sounds to me like a valve isn't closing properly, and you have air "by-passing" where it isn't supposed to be.

So instead of air being moved from one chamber to another, (and thereby filling the tank with higher and higher pressure) all that is happening is the air is leaking back into the chamber it was just "pushed out of" by the cylinder.

That continuous "backing-and-forthing" is going to cause a lot of heat just in itself, as well as there isn't any 'fresh' air to cool the components. As that is an air cooled device, by design.

As suggested by others, put the cover back on the pressure switch, and focus more on the head.

If you want to give me a call, PM me, and I'll help you out as best as I can.


 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

I put the cover on as soon as I took the pics and I tripped the breaker before taking it off. I don't much care for electricity, lol.

Thanks Sean. I haven't sprayed any soapy water on it but I'm going to give that a shot. I've put my hands up around all of the connections and haven't felt anything yet but that would be a better way to do it.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

Looks like it has reed valves. One of them could be malfunctioning.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

Soapy water test didn't reveal any leaks on the pump or on the connections to the tank.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lefty06</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to familiar wtih that brand but how's the oil level in the compressor </div></div>


How is it?
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

I would continue to try and get a hold of ingersoll rand, tell them the pressure switch is malfunctioning and you are concerned it will blow up, that may not be the problem but when they smell liability, they will probably return your correspondance. $800.00 is a lot of money to me and less than a year old is not acceptable for something to be broke that should last 10 or 20 years. just my 2 cents
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

Where the copper pipe goes into the tank there is a 1 way valve that stops the air from going back into the cyl.
That may be stuck, and allowing the air to return to the head.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Phylodog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Soapy water test didn't reveal any leaks on the pump or on the connections to the tank. </div></div>

There should also be a fitting in the bottom of the tank to drain the water, check that also.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

The oil is good. The level is where it should be and it is still greenish in color.

I'm going to try to get IR on the phone again Monday. I talked with Sean on the phone and I believe he is on the right track and that the reed valve(s) is malfunctioning.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

I have the same compressor, it should be under warranty, I know that does not help if they will not call you back. I will look at mine tonight and see if I have any ideas. But it does sound like air is leaking back in the head from the tank, so it can never build enough pressure.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok, here's how I'm seeing it. The problem is in the compressor itself.

The pressure switch is just that, a fancy on/off switch. It is adjustable, but all it does is turn the motor on or off.

Obviously, it is running. Second obviously, the head/block gets hot.

There's an air leak somewhere, either internal or external. Have you sprayed around any of the joints with soapy water, to see if any air is leaking out of a bad joint? (I'm guessing not, but also guessing that there's no leaks.) Here's why:

As stated previously, I'm thinking that it's a valve issue in your compressor. Sounds to me like a valve isn't closing properly, and you have air "by-passing" where it isn't supposed to be.

So instead of air being moved from one chamber to another, (and thereby filling the tank with higher and higher pressure) all that is happening is the air is leaking back into the chamber it was just "pushed out of" by the cylinder.

That continuous "backing-and-forthing" is going to cause a lot of heat just in itself, as well as there isn't any 'fresh' air to cool the components. As that is an air cooled device, by design.

As suggested by others, put the cover back on the pressure switch, and focus more on the head.

If you want to give me a call, PM me, and I'll help you out as best as I can.


</div></div>

Listen to this advice. You are most likely dealing with a broken reed valve. Easy to replace and check.

The other thing to add to your diagnostics list is the unloading valve. This valve bleeds off pressure during start-up until the compressor reaches full speed in order to reduce load on the motor. If it is hanging open you will never be able to build pressure and quite possibly generate excessive heat in the cylinder head.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

Last fall, I had nearly identical behavior from my single stage 120vac compressor. Same as you, I turned it on to get air, then let it all out when I was done. The motor would turn on, but the thing would run instead of for 12-15 minutes, for 45 minutes to an hour depending on ambient before the motor overhead protection would kick in.

I broke the head down, turned out to be a blown head gasket. From the manufacturer, the gasket was a $1 part. Shipping, they wanted $12. So I got three each of the head gaskets. Now I've got spares, and I can damn near guarantee I'll never have that problem again.

After looking at the manual and the parts breakdown, I'd think that part number 41 is the culprit. A blown head gasket at the small diameter measurement between the cylinders would cause the same issue you're seeing -- the primary cylinder compresses the air, then the secondary cylinder compresses it again, but can't move that HP air from the secondary cylinder to the reservoir (tank) because of a split in the gasket allowing the air from the secondary cylinder to escape back to the primary cylinder.

Long story short -- it should fall under warranty if you've only had it 8 months. Refer to the owner's manual, page 8, paragraph 1.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

When working properly, does the motor run continuous or shut off when pressure is reached? I have one compressor that shuts the motor off when pressure is reached and another one that the motor always runs but when pressure is reached a valve opens and stops pumping air into the tank. which type do you have?
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cockcroft</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When working properly, does the motor run continuous or shut off when pressure is reached? I have one compressor that shuts the motor off when pressure is reached and another one that the motor always runs but when pressure is reached a valve opens and stops pumping air into the tank. which type do you have? </div></div>

It's supposed to shut off when it reaches 135PSI and it did until recently. Now it doesn't shut off and doesn't get above 95PSI.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: treebasher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok, here's how I'm seeing it. The problem is in the compressor itself.

The pressure switch is just that, a fancy on/off switch. It is adjustable, but all it does is turn the motor on or off.

Obviously, it is running. Second obviously, the head/block gets hot.

There's an air leak somewhere, either internal or external. Have you sprayed around any of the joints with soapy water, to see if any air is leaking out of a bad joint? (I'm guessing not, but also guessing that there's no leaks.) Here's why:

As stated previously, I'm thinking that it's a valve issue in your compressor. Sounds to me like a valve isn't closing properly, and you have air "by-passing" where it isn't supposed to be.

So instead of air being moved from one chamber to another, (and thereby filling the tank with higher and higher pressure) all that is happening is the air is leaking back into the chamber it was just "pushed out of" by the cylinder.

That continuous "backing-and-forthing" is going to cause a lot of heat just in itself, as well as there isn't any 'fresh' air to cool the components. As that is an air cooled device, by design.

As suggested by others, put the cover back on the pressure switch, and focus more on the head.

If you want to give me a call, PM me, and I'll help you out as best as I can.


</div></div>

Listen to this advice. You are most likely dealing with a broken reed valve. Easy to replace and check.

The other thing to add to your diagnostics list is the unloading valve. This valve bleeds off pressure during start-up until the compressor reaches full speed in order to reduce load on the motor. If it is hanging open you will never be able to build pressure and quite possibly generate excessive heat in the cylinder head.



</div></div>

Yep, any of the above is likely.....but, it could also be busted rings in one/both of the cylinders. Compression rings, very similar if not identical to the cylinder/piston/rings in a vehicle engine. It was stated only 3 hours run time, so broken rings are unlikely, but definately possible. If any of that's the case though, the block is probably junk due to scoring on the cylinder walls. It could be honed if not too bad, or bored if bad...machine shop, rings, new piston, etc,,,expensive. Could also be a cracked piston top. Wondering what I would find if I changed the oil in it.

Were it me, I would make IR foot this bill.........
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

All excellent suggestions. +1 for Rarebreed93 regarding check valve. P11 of manual, part ID# 16 - valve, check. The compressor reed valves are not designed to maintain tank pressure. If the check valve failed, then the cylinder reeds may be damaged.

Good luck.

Kevin
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

I could be wrong, but I think the check valve is to prevent backflow during the off cycle, so that the cylinders do not start under load. Slow startup would be a symptom of a bad check. The check might also prevent leakdown during the off cycle.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

Longshooter, good catch on my bad and I stand corrected. I had a similar problem, and it was the check valve. After re-reading the problem description again, it won't be the check valve. It is one of the previously stated fixes.

Kevin
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hink</div><div class="ubbcode-body">>>Snip<<

I broke the head down, turned out to be a blown head gasket. From the manufacturer, the gasket was a $1 part. Shipping, they wanted $12. So I got three each of the head gaskets. Now I've got spares, and I can damn near guarantee I'll never have that problem again.
</div></div>

I second this diagnosis. The gasket can blow to the outside and sometimes you can't feel the air leak due to the air from the flywheel moving past the fins, likewise sometimes it will blow between the cylinders, you sometimes get oil foaming and & oil coming out of the breather. Either way, you need to inspect the valve plate and/or head or the area where the gasket blew, I've seen where they messed up grinding the parts & left a divot or there was an imperfection and the gasket will blow again. Likewise, the head bolts may have not been torqued properly causing the gasket to blow. They should be torqued, the compressor run long enough to get hot, then re-torqued.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

CS223, you are correct on so many different fronts.

The thing is though, all of these 'possibilities' fall into the "Warranty Claim" realm.

Seeing as this is a relatively new machine (4 months old) and it was bought brand new from a dealer, then by all means THEY should have to carry the responsibility of making right/replacing any damaged or defective part.

If Phylodog was to re/re ANY part of this, then that would in turn INVALIDATE his warranty, correct?

This process can't move forward until Ingersoll Rand and/or their designates get back to him. Hopefully tomorrow.

Lastly, there aren't that many parts or items inside a compressor to screw up to begin with. It will be simple in the end, but the process to get there may be convoluted.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

You should have a warranty claim.

Please contact the following:

Ingersoll Rand Customer Center
5456 West 78th Street
Indianapolis IN 46268
phone: 317-875-7014 fax: 317-879-0748

These guys provide sales and service in Indy, give them a call they will help you. They have a good bunch of guys at this location.

Good Luck!

You will need you model # and serial # which is located on the data tag.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

Thank you jetmd.

I will give them a call in the morning.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CS223, you are correct on so many different fronts.

The thing is though, all of these 'possibilities' fall into the "Warranty Claim" realm.

Seeing as this is a relatively new machine (4 months old) and it was bought brand new from a dealer, then by all means THEY should have to carry the responsibility of making right/replacing any damaged or defective part.

If Phylodog was to re/re ANY part of this, then that would in turn INVALIDATE his warranty, correct?
</div></div>

There's no doubt it's a warranty issue. But the dealer or mfr. doesn't have to show up at his location to make a repair. In fact most mfrs won't pay for a field service call under warranty. I can hardly see the reasoning in having Phylodog load the compressor back up and take it to the dealer or service center or even R&R the pump and send it in. Are you proposing that he call the mfr, tell them it's broke and sit on his hands until they solve the problem & make the repair without any effort on his part?

Diagnose the problem, call the mfr. and have them send out a new part N/C and be done & back in operation. As far as warranty invalidation, abuse, neglect would invalidate the warranty but self repair done properly will have no bearing on warranty status.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

I spoke with the local Ingersoll Rand service center last week. They are supposed to come out Monday and take a look. They've got the model and serial number so hopefully they will bring whatever parts they'll need to fix it. They never asked what was wrong with it though so that may be wishful thinking.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

If you still need some assitence you should take a picture of the cylinder head. My guess is that it has a single cylinder head and at least two cylinders. So my guess would be a defective cylinder head sealing.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

IR decided not to show up today but apparently didn't feel it necessary to call either. I called them at the end of the day and was informed that a few of the techs called in sick. Now they're <span style="font-style: italic">supposedly</span> going to show up Thursday.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

Don't be downtrodden. Be very glad that they are making a house service call.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

Pressure switch has a cut-in and cut-out adjustment. It sounds like your switch needs to be set. We typically set them to cut in around 140 and shut off around 165psi. Open the switch cover and take a picture.

NM, I see the pics. If you are hearing a continuous air leak somewhere, as has been suggested the check valve which is connected to the copper discharge tube could be stuck or broken. Drain the tank, remove and inspect the check valve. If its broken, replace as necessary.

To determine whether or not your valves are good: Take the intake filter assembly off. Put your hand over the intake. If you get a vacuum and your hand gets sucked against the pump then your valves are good. If your hand bounces against the intake (ie. its sucking AND blowing) then you have defective valves.

Oh, and I'm sure you didn't want to hear this, but the Ingersoll/Rand air compressors are
<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">complete garbage</span></span>.
 
Re: Any air compressor experts around?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh, and I'm sure you didn't want to hear this, but the Ingersoll/Rand air compressors are
complete garbage. </div></div>

Mr. Burns,

Is there a brand that you could suggest as an alternative?

Eventually the compressor that I've had for decades now will give up and I'll be shopping for a replacement.

Thanks,
Mark
 
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