Headspace OK, body too fat... 284 sizing issue

[turbo54]

So I'm learning my new 284 has a tight chamber.

Fresh Winchester brass, when measured at the fattest part of the body, measures .493".

Once fired Win brass comes out measuring .497"

I have 2 sizing dies, a Forster FLS, and a Forster bushing/bump die.

While trying to size some used (not by me) brass, I learned I can't get it to chamber, because my FLS die can't get the bottom of the body down small enough.

If I grind the die/shellholder to get the case in there deeper, I'll bump the shoulder back way too far.

Who, if anyone, makes a small base die that doesn't bump the shoulder?

Am I gonna have to either bore out a SB FLS die to make a "SB Lower Body Only" die, or buy a custom, or is what I need available off the shelf?

Anyone know what the body (widest) dimension is in a SB 284 die?

 

[arnie19]

Re: Headspace OK, body too fat... 284 sizing issue

If you dont get the answer hear i would call RCBS and explain the problem . Arnie

 

[Dave-O]

Re: Headspace OK, body too fat... 284 sizing issue

Do you own the reamer that was used on your chamber. If I'm not mistaken you could use that reamer to make a body die.

 

[QuiggyB]

Re: Headspace OK, body too fat... 284 sizing issue

the reamers that make body dies are about .003 smaller than the reamers that make chambers. PTG sells both.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Headspace OK, body too fat... 284 sizing issue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: QuiggyB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the reamers that make body dies are about .003 smaller than the reamers that make chambers. PTG sells both. </div></div>

This is what I thought... Gotta account for springback, and a 1" rod isn't a slip fit into a 1" hole.

If you send several pieces of fired brass to an outfit that does custom dies, how do they do it? Measure off your brass and CNC-bore a few thousandths under?

From some basic searching, looks like only Redding makes an off the shelf SB 284 die. It's $40. Last time I talked to Forster, they were getting ~$100 for a custom die.

I think I'll call Redding and see what the body's base diameter ends up at with their SB FLS. If its between .492 and .495 it should work. Maybe I'll get lucky and it'll headspace my cases properly too. Otherwise I'll bore out the shoulder, and use my standard FLS or bushing/bump die to knock tge shoulder back.

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Headspace OK, body too fat... 284 sizing issue

To me it would be easier to just buy new brass and start over.
Then you won't have wasted the time and money on a die you only need to use once. And with used brass, a person never knows what the life expectency is going to be.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Headspace OK, body too fat... 284 sizing issue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To me it would be easier to just buy new brass and start over.
Then you won't have wasted the time and money on a die you only need to use once. And with used brass, a person never knows what the life expectency is going to be. </div></div>

Even if I don't ever use any brass fired in a different gun, I'll still need a die that sizes smaller than the FLS I've got now. My chamber is smaller than my die. I'll be ok with fresh brass for a few firings but eventually the brass will be a tight fit in my chamber and won't be sizeable with the dies ive got.

 

[bowslngr]

Re: Headspace OK, body too fat... 284 sizing issue

Does RCBS make a small base die in that caliber?

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Headspace OK, body too fat... 284 sizing issue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To me it would be easier to just buy new brass and start over.
Then you won't have wasted the time and money on a die you only need to use once. And with used brass, a person never knows what the life expectency is going to be. </div></div>

Even if I don't ever use any brass fired in a different gun, I'll still need a die that sizes smaller than the FLS I've got now. My chamber is smaller than my die. I'll be ok with fresh brass for a few firings but eventually the brass will be a tight fit in my chamber and won't be sizeable with the dies ive got. </div></div>

I think you are wrong. New brass in "your" chamber, will never grow to the size of the brass you're tryng to use now. I've witnessed this on three seperate guns.
All three were factory guns, rebarreled with a match grade reamer, old brass wouldn't work. New brass will.
Ask this same question in the gunsmithing form, see what results you get there.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Headspace OK, body too fat... 284 sizing issue

Milo:

My chamber is smaller than my FLS die.

This is my first rifle with a tight "match" (saami minimum) chamber, but I can say that with my other rifles, after several firings with only neck sizing or neck/shoulder bump ONLY, the case starts chambering awful tight because the body has stretched. Brass sized in an FLS die fits like a hotdog down a hallway in those chambers because the die is a good bit smaller than the chamber.

For the new rifle, it wont work that way...

Thoughts?

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Headspace OK, body too fat... 284 sizing issue

Turbo,
Definetly not trying to argue with you. If you are right, I've heard Forster makes match grade dies. I've never had to resort to that though. I do the same as you, NS, then FLS when it's time.
I'm surprised there is a small base 284 die out there, they are usually for semi guns.
I do size with redding dies for the most part, except .223, which is a RCBS X-die.
The smith who reamed the chamber should have let you know that your dies weren't gonna work. He could actually use that reamer on say a .243 die, and it would be perfect, if he'd do it, and should for nothing given the confusion.
Miles

 

[turbo54]

Re: Headspace OK, body too fat... 284 sizing issue

Not the smiths fault - I specified exactly what I wanted, supplied the reamer, etc etc. All he had to do was turn, thread, ream for HS.

Maybe the reamers name "284 match" shoulda tipped me off, or maybe David Kiff coulda mentioned I'd need custom or SB dies for it. Oh well, no biggie - I'll get it sorted out!

History Lesson: Winchester came out with the 284 to compete with the Remington 7mm Express (280 Rem), to match ballistics, but do so on a short action receiver. That would allow for easier adoption into semi-autos and lever guns. Winchester offered 284 in both semiautomatic and lever. Savage offered the 99 lever in 284 at one point! There may be other examples, but there was definitely a need for small base dies in 284 once upon a time....and again now, I guess!

Kinda funny, I've never needed a SB die before, even for my ARs (though its close), and now I neex one for a bolt gun! Go figure.

 

[DocB]

Re: Headspace OK, body too fat... 284 sizing issue

T-54,

Got PO'ed five years ago over the same problem. Cut off 5" off the barrel and converted the rifle to 6.5 X 55 and haven't looked back. I might even get around to selling the 6.5 x 284 dies eventually.

Not much help, but what I did,
DocB

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Headspace OK, body too fat... 284 sizing issue

Turb,

Thanks for the history lesson. And good luck. Hey, what is a phone gun?

 

[turbo54]

Re: Headspace OK, body too fat... 284 sizing issue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: milo-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Turb,

Thanks for the history lesson. And good luck. <span style="font-weight: bold"> Hey, what is a phone gun?</span> </div></div>

My interwebz is via smartphone, and sometimes it thinks its smarter than me... Not a chance!

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: Headspace OK, body too fat... 284 sizing issue

I edit too, thought I was going to have to change your name to---"Turbo007", and you and I are the only ones that know what we're talking about.

 

[esromvre]

Re: Headspace OK, body too fat... 284 sizing issue

Redding small base body die. fixed the problem for me.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Headspace OK, body too fat... 284 sizing issue

Spoke with Redding today. They suggested I borrow a Redding 284 FLS from someone (a friend has one) to see if its an improvement over the Forster.

Otherwise, their SB FLS die is .002" smaller. That oughtta do it.