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Re: Saints latest woes
When I heard this about the Saints, Redskins and no doubt other NFL teams I was disgusted. Having played and coached 12 total years in the high school ranks I learned early that you do not wish undue harm on another player. It always comes back to get you. The 8 yrs I coached, I always wanted to beat our opponent while they were at their best. This leaves no room for excuses that player X was out and we/they should've, would've, could've.
Hope Roger Goodell brings down the hammer, hard.
Mercenaries in football... Wtf.
When I heard this about the Saints, Redskins and no doubt other NFL teams I was disgusted. Having played and coached 12 total years in the high school ranks I learned early that you do not wish undue harm on another player. It always comes back to get you. The 8 yrs I coached, I always wanted to beat our opponent while they were at their best. This leaves no room for excuses that player X was out and we/they should've, would've, could've.
Hope Roger Goodell brings down the hammer, hard.
Mercenaries in football... Wtf.
Re: Saints latest woes
What's the average length of a NFL career? Still under 4 years as I recall.
Huge, powerful athletes imparting all the elements of force, momentum, torque and the random occurrence of plain old bad luck conspire to make cripples out of 24 year olds. That is, in addition to all the accumulated dings from years of youth, high school and college ball.
The point is, the game is sufficiently dangerous enough when played as intended without the nefarious incentives outlined in these allegations. Naturally, it is unsurprising that the motivation is stoked by assholes in no risk of being crippled and tolerated, sanctioned or encouraged by those who, when caught, pretend to apologize.
Classic.
What's the average length of a NFL career? Still under 4 years as I recall.
Huge, powerful athletes imparting all the elements of force, momentum, torque and the random occurrence of plain old bad luck conspire to make cripples out of 24 year olds. That is, in addition to all the accumulated dings from years of youth, high school and college ball.
The point is, the game is sufficiently dangerous enough when played as intended without the nefarious incentives outlined in these allegations. Naturally, it is unsurprising that the motivation is stoked by assholes in no risk of being crippled and tolerated, sanctioned or encouraged by those who, when caught, pretend to apologize.
Classic.
Re: Saints latest woes
The NFL is so hypocritical!! C'mon as if the Saints invented smashing people for money!! And by the way go back and find me one hit on film during that time that was an illegal hit!!!!
So take all this boo hoo hoo crap we wanna be safe and stick it where the sun don't shine!!
The NFL is so hypocritical!! C'mon as if the Saints invented smashing people for money!! And by the way go back and find me one hit on film during that time that was an illegal hit!!!!
So take all this boo hoo hoo crap we wanna be safe and stick it where the sun don't shine!!
Re: Saints latest woes
I was watching ESPN this morning and they said that the NFL had 50,000 pages of evidence. WTF is that???!!!
Pretty sure nobody was writing anything down in the locker room. Sounds like a jilted employee had an axe to grind with the Saints.
I was watching ESPN this morning and they said that the NFL had 50,000 pages of evidence. WTF is that???!!!
Pretty sure nobody was writing anything down in the locker room. Sounds like a jilted employee had an axe to grind with the Saints.
Re: Saints latest woes
Also, ESPN reported that they KNEW about this 3yrs ago and "advised" the Saints to stop. Now that it went public... time to bury some people to make up for it.
There is no excuse for putting "bounties" on other players in a sport where you can legally smash someone full speed, full force within the rules. The only people who say it's no big deal either never played or don't have someone they give two shits about between the white lines. Also, when you have to resort to hurting other players... it shows what kind of person you really are.
Also, ESPN reported that they KNEW about this 3yrs ago and "advised" the Saints to stop. Now that it went public... time to bury some people to make up for it.
There is no excuse for putting "bounties" on other players in a sport where you can legally smash someone full speed, full force within the rules. The only people who say it's no big deal either never played or don't have someone they give two shits about between the white lines. Also, when you have to resort to hurting other players... it shows what kind of person you really are.
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jammer61</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, ESPN reported that they KNEW about this 3yrs ago and "advised" the Saints to stop. Now that it went public... time to bury some people to make up for it.
There is no excuse for putting "bounties" on other players in a sport where you can legally smash someone full speed, full force within the rules. The only people who say it's no big deal either never played or don't have someone they give two shits about between the white lines. Also, when you have to resort to hurting other players... it shows what kind of person you really are. </div></div>
Dude, no offense but save the "care for" bleeding heart BS for the dance. So every guy that threw the ball at my head at 90mph + to get me off the plate should of been banned for life. You don't think there are bounties in other sports. So I'm calling BS on your take. Oh and by the way I don't coach High School, I played professional ball.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jammer61</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, ESPN reported that they KNEW about this 3yrs ago and "advised" the Saints to stop. Now that it went public... time to bury some people to make up for it.
There is no excuse for putting "bounties" on other players in a sport where you can legally smash someone full speed, full force within the rules. The only people who say it's no big deal either never played or don't have someone they give two shits about between the white lines. Also, when you have to resort to hurting other players... it shows what kind of person you really are. </div></div>
Dude, no offense but save the "care for" bleeding heart BS for the dance. So every guy that threw the ball at my head at 90mph + to get me off the plate should of been banned for life. You don't think there are bounties in other sports. So I'm calling BS on your take. Oh and by the way I don't coach High School, I played professional ball.
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jammer61</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, ESPN reported that they KNEW about this 3yrs ago and "advised" the Saints to stop. Now that it went public... time to bury some people to make up for it.
There is no excuse for putting "bounties" on other players in a sport where you can legally smash someone full speed, full force within the rules. The only people who say it's no big deal either never played or don't have someone they give two shits about between the white lines. Also, when you have to resort to hurting other players... it shows what kind of person you really are. </div></div>
Dude, no offense but save the "care for" bleeding heart BS for the dance. So every guy that threw the ball at my head at 90mph + to get me off the plate should of been banned for life. You don't think there are bounties in other sports. So I'm calling BS on your take. Oh and by the way I don't coach High School, I played professional ball. </div></div>
Did they hit you in the head trying to get money? How would you feel if you're career was ended by a bounty? How would you feel if one of your kids got injured because of a bounty? Assuming you have kids... And just because it happens in sports doesn't make it right. Ever wonder why the world is the way it is?
Good for you, you played pro ball. Feel good now that you got that out?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jammer61</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, ESPN reported that they KNEW about this 3yrs ago and "advised" the Saints to stop. Now that it went public... time to bury some people to make up for it.
There is no excuse for putting "bounties" on other players in a sport where you can legally smash someone full speed, full force within the rules. The only people who say it's no big deal either never played or don't have someone they give two shits about between the white lines. Also, when you have to resort to hurting other players... it shows what kind of person you really are. </div></div>
Dude, no offense but save the "care for" bleeding heart BS for the dance. So every guy that threw the ball at my head at 90mph + to get me off the plate should of been banned for life. You don't think there are bounties in other sports. So I'm calling BS on your take. Oh and by the way I don't coach High School, I played professional ball. </div></div>
Did they hit you in the head trying to get money? How would you feel if you're career was ended by a bounty? How would you feel if one of your kids got injured because of a bounty? Assuming you have kids... And just because it happens in sports doesn't make it right. Ever wonder why the world is the way it is?
Good for you, you played pro ball. Feel good now that you got that out?
Re: Saints latest woes
How big of a motivator would $1,500 be to a guy that is making millions per year?
Never played ball myself, but I would think that being a defensive player would mean that you would want to go out there and put a lick to someone. I didn't join the Corps to play with puppy dogs and kitty cats. Maybe that's an extreme example but that's how I see it.
How big of a motivator would $1,500 be to a guy that is making millions per year?
Never played ball myself, but I would think that being a defensive player would mean that you would want to go out there and put a lick to someone. I didn't join the Corps to play with puppy dogs and kitty cats. Maybe that's an extreme example but that's how I see it.
Re: Saints latest woes
I have two kids, Thank you for asking. And they both happen to be athletes. And taking people out have been part of the game since its inception. We're talking about pro athletes bro. Is it right? You seem to be the expert.
If a guy tried to take me out on a double play I'd try and make him eat the baseball on the relay. If it ended his career, sorry it happened. I chose to play a game that at any time someone could end my career.
You pay money to see NFL players waltzing around in panties? And I injected my experience so I wouldn't get a lecture by some know it all feel good High School coach.
Wanna know what's wrong with this country, take a look at the people that are teaching our kids. Go ahead everyone's a winner, give em all a trophy! And please make sure no one gets hurt!
I have two kids, Thank you for asking. And they both happen to be athletes. And taking people out have been part of the game since its inception. We're talking about pro athletes bro. Is it right? You seem to be the expert.
If a guy tried to take me out on a double play I'd try and make him eat the baseball on the relay. If it ended his career, sorry it happened. I chose to play a game that at any time someone could end my career.
You pay money to see NFL players waltzing around in panties? And I injected my experience so I wouldn't get a lecture by some know it all feel good High School coach.
Wanna know what's wrong with this country, take a look at the people that are teaching our kids. Go ahead everyone's a winner, give em all a trophy! And please make sure no one gets hurt!
Re: Saints latest woes
It shouldn't be called a bounty. I think a more accurate term would be "side match".
As in I came in 25th place at the last comp but I won the side match on the last stage.
Same thing here... they are playing for that interception or sack that just might be a trigger to more momentum and a win.
It shouldn't be called a bounty. I think a more accurate term would be "side match".
As in I came in 25th place at the last comp but I won the side match on the last stage.
Same thing here... they are playing for that interception or sack that just might be a trigger to more momentum and a win.
Re: Saints latest woes
You cannot compare taking someone out in baseball and taking someone out in football. Baseball is not even a fraction of the contact sport football is. Do I want to see flag football... no. The Brady Rule is garbage and intentionally hurting people for any reason other than coincidence is idiotic.
I do not like the mentality of "every body should play" just as much as I don't like the "so, what... other people do it too" train of thought. So, which is worse... teaching our kids to be pussy's or teaching our kids to break the rules, have no morals and it's all about me until it happens to me??
You cannot compare taking someone out in baseball and taking someone out in football. Baseball is not even a fraction of the contact sport football is. Do I want to see flag football... no. The Brady Rule is garbage and intentionally hurting people for any reason other than coincidence is idiotic.
I do not like the mentality of "every body should play" just as much as I don't like the "so, what... other people do it too" train of thought. So, which is worse... teaching our kids to be pussy's or teaching our kids to break the rules, have no morals and it's all about me until it happens to me??
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cds7221</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How big of a motivator would $1,500 be to a guy that is making millions per year?
Never played ball myself, but I would think that being a defensive player would mean that you would want to go out there and put a lick to someone. I didn't join the Corps to play with puppy dogs and kitty cats. Maybe that's an extreme example but that's how I see it. </div></div>
$1,500... try $10,000! One of the Saints LB's threw down that in cash for whoever took Favre out of a playoff game some years ago.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cds7221</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How big of a motivator would $1,500 be to a guy that is making millions per year?
Never played ball myself, but I would think that being a defensive player would mean that you would want to go out there and put a lick to someone. I didn't join the Corps to play with puppy dogs and kitty cats. Maybe that's an extreme example but that's how I see it. </div></div>
$1,500... try $10,000! One of the Saints LB's threw down that in cash for whoever took Favre out of a playoff game some years ago.
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WhiskeyWebber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It shouldn't be called a bounty. I think a more accurate term would be "side match".
As in I came in 25th place at the last comp but I won the side match on the last stage.
Same thing here... they are playing for that interception or sack that just might be a trigger to more momentum and a win.
</div></div>
This I agree with, a play to change the game. What is being reported by the news and NFL is INJURING people for cash. Doesn't have to change the game, just hurt somebody.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WhiskeyWebber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It shouldn't be called a bounty. I think a more accurate term would be "side match".
As in I came in 25th place at the last comp but I won the side match on the last stage.
Same thing here... they are playing for that interception or sack that just might be a trigger to more momentum and a win.
</div></div>
This I agree with, a play to change the game. What is being reported by the news and NFL is INJURING people for cash. Doesn't have to change the game, just hurt somebody.
Re: Saints latest woes
There are several problems with it.
One is that the agreement in some sports, such as football at least, is that coaches and other poeple in the organization cannot pay money to other people in addition to their contract for further goals that are not outlined in their contract.
Second it's just bad sportsmanship. I dabbled in some pro sports but not football and it was very brief. We did not dare put bounties on players (and the thought never even crossed our minds) but yh you gameplanned around some players such as being rough with their best players to try to keep them out of the game....but not to force an injury. We never wanted to force someone out of the game becuase of injury and potentially end their career...you held them up, bumped them, just were physical to try to get them out of the play (yes I played soccer). But never ever ever purposely tried to injure someone to knock them out of the game. That's just poor gamesmanship....I mean come on. It's great it's football, go cheer a big hit but to wish harm and knock someone out of a game on purpose is classless.
Dagsta you compare a high inside fastball as the same thing. I don't even think they are close. Typically a pitcher is not trying to hit and knock a batter out. He is merely playing a psychological game and trying to get the batter to back away from the strike zone....not to induce an injury and knock him out. I think that is a very poor comparison.
Why do you even need bounties? Play within the rules and fine try big huge hits that may or may not knock someone out of the game but you don't purposefully try to injure someone. If it happens it happens it is a physical game. It also can lead to players trying to go outside the lines to take out players. Even Favre mentioned it when he played the Saints in the playoffs a few years back. There is evidence supposedly there was a bounty on his head. During that game there were several flags thrown for unnecessary roughness, roughing the passer etc and some plays that were not even called that were pretty messed up...and I absolutely hates Favre, but he was right.
There are several problems with it.
One is that the agreement in some sports, such as football at least, is that coaches and other poeple in the organization cannot pay money to other people in addition to their contract for further goals that are not outlined in their contract.
Second it's just bad sportsmanship. I dabbled in some pro sports but not football and it was very brief. We did not dare put bounties on players (and the thought never even crossed our minds) but yh you gameplanned around some players such as being rough with their best players to try to keep them out of the game....but not to force an injury. We never wanted to force someone out of the game becuase of injury and potentially end their career...you held them up, bumped them, just were physical to try to get them out of the play (yes I played soccer). But never ever ever purposely tried to injure someone to knock them out of the game. That's just poor gamesmanship....I mean come on. It's great it's football, go cheer a big hit but to wish harm and knock someone out of a game on purpose is classless.
Dagsta you compare a high inside fastball as the same thing. I don't even think they are close. Typically a pitcher is not trying to hit and knock a batter out. He is merely playing a psychological game and trying to get the batter to back away from the strike zone....not to induce an injury and knock him out. I think that is a very poor comparison.
Why do you even need bounties? Play within the rules and fine try big huge hits that may or may not knock someone out of the game but you don't purposefully try to injure someone. If it happens it happens it is a physical game. It also can lead to players trying to go outside the lines to take out players. Even Favre mentioned it when he played the Saints in the playoffs a few years back. There is evidence supposedly there was a bounty on his head. During that game there were several flags thrown for unnecessary roughness, roughing the passer etc and some plays that were not even called that were pretty messed up...and I absolutely hates Favre, but he was right.
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So every guy that threw the ball at my head at 90mph + to get me off the plate should of been banned for life. ... Oh and by the way I don't coach High School, I played professional ball. </div></div>
I don't think brushing a guy off the plate is a proper parallel to what the Saints are accused of doing. I think for baseball it would be if a pitcher was offered an additional bonus for knocking you out of the game so he pings you with a 90+ mph fastball. Or to try and take out A-rod by sliding into 3rd and kicking your cleats up to hit his knee.
$10,000 might not seem like a lot of money in comparison to the millions they make a year, but that's still one helluva night at the strip clubs for him and his friends.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So every guy that threw the ball at my head at 90mph + to get me off the plate should of been banned for life. ... Oh and by the way I don't coach High School, I played professional ball. </div></div>
I don't think brushing a guy off the plate is a proper parallel to what the Saints are accused of doing. I think for baseball it would be if a pitcher was offered an additional bonus for knocking you out of the game so he pings you with a 90+ mph fastball. Or to try and take out A-rod by sliding into 3rd and kicking your cleats up to hit his knee.
$10,000 might not seem like a lot of money in comparison to the millions they make a year, but that's still one helluva night at the strip clubs for him and his friends.
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jammer61</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WhiskeyWebber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It shouldn't be called a bounty. I think a more accurate term would be "side match".
As in I came in 25th place at the last comp but I won the side match on the last stage.
Same thing here... they are playing for that interception or sack that just might be a trigger to more momentum and a win.
</div></div>
This I agree with, a play to change the game. What is being reported by the news and NFL is INJURING people for cash. Doesn't have to change the game, just hurt somebody. </div></div>
Yh fine play for that big play but that big play shouldn't be PURPOSEFULLY INJURING someone. Yh great get that sack, knock that QB on his ass...but to try and purposefully injury someone is idiotic, moronic and classless.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jammer61</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WhiskeyWebber</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It shouldn't be called a bounty. I think a more accurate term would be "side match".
As in I came in 25th place at the last comp but I won the side match on the last stage.
Same thing here... they are playing for that interception or sack that just might be a trigger to more momentum and a win.
</div></div>
This I agree with, a play to change the game. What is being reported by the news and NFL is INJURING people for cash. Doesn't have to change the game, just hurt somebody. </div></div>
Yh fine play for that big play but that big play shouldn't be PURPOSEFULLY INJURING someone. Yh great get that sack, knock that QB on his ass...but to try and purposefully injury someone is idiotic, moronic and classless.
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: halcyon575</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So every guy that threw the ball at my head at 90mph + to get me off the plate should of been banned for life. ... Oh and by the way I don't coach High School, I played professional ball. </div></div>
I don't think brushing a guy off the plate is a proper parallel to what the Saints are accused of doing. I think for baseball it would be if a pitcher was offered an additional bonus for knocking you out of the game so he pings you with a 90+ mph fastball. Or to try and take out A-rod by sliding into 3rd and kicking your cleats up to hit his knee.
$10,000 might not seem like a lot of money in comparison to the millions they make a year, but that's still one helluva night at the strip clubs for him and his friends.
</div></div>
Agreed...and remember these guys make so much money they don't care much of the time if they have to pay fines....for them they will rip off a guys head, knocking him out of the game, brush off the $10k, $20k or $50k fine and just get the "bragging rights" of collecting the bounty. Now they don't care about fines so they go outside the lines to injure people with dirty hits.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: halcyon575</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So every guy that threw the ball at my head at 90mph + to get me off the plate should of been banned for life. ... Oh and by the way I don't coach High School, I played professional ball. </div></div>
I don't think brushing a guy off the plate is a proper parallel to what the Saints are accused of doing. I think for baseball it would be if a pitcher was offered an additional bonus for knocking you out of the game so he pings you with a 90+ mph fastball. Or to try and take out A-rod by sliding into 3rd and kicking your cleats up to hit his knee.
$10,000 might not seem like a lot of money in comparison to the millions they make a year, but that's still one helluva night at the strip clubs for him and his friends.
</div></div>
Agreed...and remember these guys make so much money they don't care much of the time if they have to pay fines....for them they will rip off a guys head, knocking him out of the game, brush off the $10k, $20k or $50k fine and just get the "bragging rights" of collecting the bounty. Now they don't care about fines so they go outside the lines to injure people with dirty hits.
Re: Saints latest woes
I'm sure Dick Butkus, Ronnie Lott, Jack Lambert and the likes all over the NFL never threw down money and tried desperately not to end somebody's career. Ronnie Lott publicly stated he tried to hurt every player he ever hit.
I don't personally condone cheap shots at all. Go and find me a career ending cheap shot that was taken by a Saints player. Kurt Warner publicly stated also after looking at the film that the hit that took him out wasn't out of line.
I never said once I'm all for breaking someone up and ending their careers. I'm saying this isn't a Saints only issue. And the NFL is what it is. If you don't want to run the risk don't play.
Oh and please since when is the NFL the the patriarch of "morals" they play by the rules and the rules are brutal bro, whether there's money on the table or not. Should it be status quo for a coach to pay a player to purposely injure another player. No, but they don't have to, they make millions trying every play to inflict as much pain as they can on their opponent. MMA,UFC, moral sport???? NFL, moral sport???? Why sure, they wear pads!!
My gig is this, for the NFL to get all pompous now and use the Saints as the sacrificial lamb is bullshit, it is only because they have all these workmans comp lawsuits, and want to show the courts they really care.
And while you have your nose all stuck up in the paper and up ESPN's ass. Go back and look at the film and find me a play where a Saints player injured another player breaking the RULES!!
I'm sure Dick Butkus, Ronnie Lott, Jack Lambert and the likes all over the NFL never threw down money and tried desperately not to end somebody's career. Ronnie Lott publicly stated he tried to hurt every player he ever hit.
I don't personally condone cheap shots at all. Go and find me a career ending cheap shot that was taken by a Saints player. Kurt Warner publicly stated also after looking at the film that the hit that took him out wasn't out of line.
I never said once I'm all for breaking someone up and ending their careers. I'm saying this isn't a Saints only issue. And the NFL is what it is. If you don't want to run the risk don't play.
Oh and please since when is the NFL the the patriarch of "morals" they play by the rules and the rules are brutal bro, whether there's money on the table or not. Should it be status quo for a coach to pay a player to purposely injure another player. No, but they don't have to, they make millions trying every play to inflict as much pain as they can on their opponent. MMA,UFC, moral sport???? NFL, moral sport???? Why sure, they wear pads!!
My gig is this, for the NFL to get all pompous now and use the Saints as the sacrificial lamb is bullshit, it is only because they have all these workmans comp lawsuits, and want to show the courts they really care.
And while you have your nose all stuck up in the paper and up ESPN's ass. Go back and look at the film and find me a play where a Saints player injured another player breaking the RULES!!
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jammer61</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You cannot compare taking someone out in baseball and taking someone out in football. Baseball is not even a fraction of the contact sport football is. Do I want to see flag football... no. The Brady Rule is garbage and intentionally hurting people for any reason other than coincidence is idiotic.
I do not like the mentality of "every body should play" just as much as I don't like the "so, what... other people do it too" train of thought. So, which is worse... teaching our kids to be pussy's or teaching our kids to break the rules, have no morals and it's all about me until it happens to me?? </div></div>
I dislike and like the Brady rule at the same time. Like I have said before I love big hits and have no problem with them as long as they within the rules of the game. Remember that a QB is extremely vulnerable especially when he is throwing it. At the time they made that Brady Rule there was a rash of injuries previously caused by defensive players launching themselves at QBs knees and they seldom can protect themselves there especially when they are throwing it. I mean Palmer went down, Roethlisberger, Brady...also remember the Brady Rule was more a clarification of an already rule on the books, not a new rule by any means. Actually Jeff Fisher the coach of the Titans and McKay the President of the Falcons at the time were huge propponents of the new rule and were two that helped push it threw.
I wouldn't have an issues not having the rule but at the same time I can understand why they have it. The NFL is a Billion dollar empire and the QBs are the faces of the franchise...they want to protect those guys and their careers.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jammer61</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You cannot compare taking someone out in baseball and taking someone out in football. Baseball is not even a fraction of the contact sport football is. Do I want to see flag football... no. The Brady Rule is garbage and intentionally hurting people for any reason other than coincidence is idiotic.
I do not like the mentality of "every body should play" just as much as I don't like the "so, what... other people do it too" train of thought. So, which is worse... teaching our kids to be pussy's or teaching our kids to break the rules, have no morals and it's all about me until it happens to me?? </div></div>
I dislike and like the Brady rule at the same time. Like I have said before I love big hits and have no problem with them as long as they within the rules of the game. Remember that a QB is extremely vulnerable especially when he is throwing it. At the time they made that Brady Rule there was a rash of injuries previously caused by defensive players launching themselves at QBs knees and they seldom can protect themselves there especially when they are throwing it. I mean Palmer went down, Roethlisberger, Brady...also remember the Brady Rule was more a clarification of an already rule on the books, not a new rule by any means. Actually Jeff Fisher the coach of the Titans and McKay the President of the Falcons at the time were huge propponents of the new rule and were two that helped push it threw.
I wouldn't have an issues not having the rule but at the same time I can understand why they have it. The NFL is a Billion dollar empire and the QBs are the faces of the franchise...they want to protect those guys and their careers.
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: halcyon575</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So every guy that threw the ball at my head at 90mph + to get me off the plate should of been banned for life. ... Oh and by the way I don't coach High School, I played professional ball. </div></div>
I don't think brushing a guy off the plate is a proper parallel to what the Saints are accused of doing. I think for baseball it would be if a pitcher was offered an additional bonus for knocking you out of the game so he pings you with a 90+ mph fastball. Or to try and take out A-rod by sliding into 3rd and kicking your cleats up to hit his knee.
$10,000 might not seem like a lot of money in comparison to the millions they make a year, but that's still one helluva night at the strip clubs for him and his friends.
</div></div>
Even that is not comparable. More often then not, in football you don't see the guy who put you on your ass. The batter is staring at the pitcher. The only thing comparable would be a base runner coming around 3rd, full speed and the catcher waiting/focusing on the ball to make the play at home plate. Still, how ofter does that happen? You will always have people who are "just bleed" because they have never had to deal with the aftermath of someone else getting injured.
To them, they are just bodies that are there for their entertainment.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: halcyon575</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So every guy that threw the ball at my head at 90mph + to get me off the plate should of been banned for life. ... Oh and by the way I don't coach High School, I played professional ball. </div></div>
I don't think brushing a guy off the plate is a proper parallel to what the Saints are accused of doing. I think for baseball it would be if a pitcher was offered an additional bonus for knocking you out of the game so he pings you with a 90+ mph fastball. Or to try and take out A-rod by sliding into 3rd and kicking your cleats up to hit his knee.
$10,000 might not seem like a lot of money in comparison to the millions they make a year, but that's still one helluva night at the strip clubs for him and his friends.
</div></div>
Even that is not comparable. More often then not, in football you don't see the guy who put you on your ass. The batter is staring at the pitcher. The only thing comparable would be a base runner coming around 3rd, full speed and the catcher waiting/focusing on the ball to make the play at home plate. Still, how ofter does that happen? You will always have people who are "just bleed" because they have never had to deal with the aftermath of someone else getting injured.
To them, they are just bodies that are there for their entertainment.
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sure Dick Butkus, Ronnie Lott, Jack Lambert and the likes all over the NFL never threw down money and tried desperately not to end somebody's career. Ronnie Lott publicly stated he tried to hurt every player he ever hit.
I don't personally condone cheap shots at all. Go and find me a career ending cheap shot that was taken by a Saints player. Kurt Warner publicly stated also after looking at the film that the hit that took him out wasn't out of line.
I never said once I'm all for breaking someone up and ending their careers. I'm saying this isn't a Saints only issue. And the NFL is what it is. If you don't want to run the risk don't play.
Oh and please since when is the NFL the the patriarch of "morals" they play by the rules and the rules are brutal bro, whether there's money on the table or not. Should it be status quo for a coach to pay a player to purposely injure another player. No, but they don't have to, they make millions trying every play to inflict as much pain as they can on their opponent. MMA,UFC, moral sport???? NFL, moral sport???? Why sure, they wear pads!!
My gig is this, for the NFL to get all pompous now and use the Saints as the sacrificial lamb is bullshit, it is only because they have all these workmans comp lawsuits, and want to show the courts they really care.
And while you have your nose all stuck up in the paper and up ESPN's ass. Go back and look at the film and find me a play where a Saints player injured another player breaking the RULES!! </div></div>
They are not getting all pompous right now...Actually the NFL caught wind of BOUNTIES being paid three years ago. No guys just going out and playing the game and laying hard hits but targeting players for cash. They told the Saints to clean it up and make it stop. They were forewarned. They decided not to. I say throw the book at them. You cannot pay bounties, much less have a coach chip in on the bounties (against the CBA rules). This isn't a sudden thing. They were even warned and it continued for 3 years. For sheer stupidity they should have the book thrown at them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sure Dick Butkus, Ronnie Lott, Jack Lambert and the likes all over the NFL never threw down money and tried desperately not to end somebody's career. Ronnie Lott publicly stated he tried to hurt every player he ever hit.
I don't personally condone cheap shots at all. Go and find me a career ending cheap shot that was taken by a Saints player. Kurt Warner publicly stated also after looking at the film that the hit that took him out wasn't out of line.
I never said once I'm all for breaking someone up and ending their careers. I'm saying this isn't a Saints only issue. And the NFL is what it is. If you don't want to run the risk don't play.
Oh and please since when is the NFL the the patriarch of "morals" they play by the rules and the rules are brutal bro, whether there's money on the table or not. Should it be status quo for a coach to pay a player to purposely injure another player. No, but they don't have to, they make millions trying every play to inflict as much pain as they can on their opponent. MMA,UFC, moral sport???? NFL, moral sport???? Why sure, they wear pads!!
My gig is this, for the NFL to get all pompous now and use the Saints as the sacrificial lamb is bullshit, it is only because they have all these workmans comp lawsuits, and want to show the courts they really care.
And while you have your nose all stuck up in the paper and up ESPN's ass. Go back and look at the film and find me a play where a Saints player injured another player breaking the RULES!! </div></div>
They are not getting all pompous right now...Actually the NFL caught wind of BOUNTIES being paid three years ago. No guys just going out and playing the game and laying hard hits but targeting players for cash. They told the Saints to clean it up and make it stop. They were forewarned. They decided not to. I say throw the book at them. You cannot pay bounties, much less have a coach chip in on the bounties (against the CBA rules). This isn't a sudden thing. They were even warned and it continued for 3 years. For sheer stupidity they should have the book thrown at them.
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sure Dick Butkus, Ronnie Lott, Jack Lambert and the likes all over the NFL never threw down money and tried desperately not to end somebody's career. Ronnie Lott publicly stated he tried to hurt every player he ever hit.
I don't personally condone cheap shots at all. Go and find me a career ending cheap shot that was taken by a Saints player. Kurt Warner publicly stated also after looking at the film that the hit that took him out wasn't out of line.
I never said once I'm all for breaking someone up and ending their careers. I'm saying this isn't a Saints only issue. And the NFL is what it is. If you don't want to run the risk don't play.
Oh and please since when is the NFL the the patriarch of "morals" they play by the rules and the rules are brutal bro, whether there's money on the table or not. Should it be status quo for a coach to pay a player to purposely injure another player. No, but they don't have to, they make millions trying every play to inflict as much pain as they can on their opponent. MMA,UFC, moral sport???? NFL, moral sport???? Why sure, they wear pads!!
My gig is this, for the NFL to get all pompous now and use the Saints as the sacrificial lamb is bullshit, it is only because they have all these workmans comp lawsuits, and want to show the courts they really care.
And while you have your nose all stuck up in the paper and up ESPN's ass. Go back and look at the film and find me a play where a Saints player injured another player breaking the RULES!! </div></div>
As stated above, watch the Saints/Vikings playoff game from a few years ago. They sure as hell tried to put Favre out but didn't succeed. Or, it's not true because someone didn't get hurt?? right....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sure Dick Butkus, Ronnie Lott, Jack Lambert and the likes all over the NFL never threw down money and tried desperately not to end somebody's career. Ronnie Lott publicly stated he tried to hurt every player he ever hit.
I don't personally condone cheap shots at all. Go and find me a career ending cheap shot that was taken by a Saints player. Kurt Warner publicly stated also after looking at the film that the hit that took him out wasn't out of line.
I never said once I'm all for breaking someone up and ending their careers. I'm saying this isn't a Saints only issue. And the NFL is what it is. If you don't want to run the risk don't play.
Oh and please since when is the NFL the the patriarch of "morals" they play by the rules and the rules are brutal bro, whether there's money on the table or not. Should it be status quo for a coach to pay a player to purposely injure another player. No, but they don't have to, they make millions trying every play to inflict as much pain as they can on their opponent. MMA,UFC, moral sport???? NFL, moral sport???? Why sure, they wear pads!!
My gig is this, for the NFL to get all pompous now and use the Saints as the sacrificial lamb is bullshit, it is only because they have all these workmans comp lawsuits, and want to show the courts they really care.
And while you have your nose all stuck up in the paper and up ESPN's ass. Go back and look at the film and find me a play where a Saints player injured another player breaking the RULES!! </div></div>
As stated above, watch the Saints/Vikings playoff game from a few years ago. They sure as hell tried to put Favre out but didn't succeed. Or, it's not true because someone didn't get hurt?? right....
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Go back and look at the film and find me a play where a Saints player injured another player breaking the RULES!! </div></div>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQichpQe9gQ
That was against the rules. Once the ball breaks the plane, the play is dead. He deliberately smacked him after the play.
Now we have no clue on his motivations. Smith might have had a bounty on him resulting in the hit (and attempted injury). Smith also might've been running his mouth all game making derogatory comments about Jenkins' mother resembling a female dog. However with the scandal, hits like this will be under even more scrutiny than they were previously.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Go back and look at the film and find me a play where a Saints player injured another player breaking the RULES!! </div></div>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQichpQe9gQ
That was against the rules. Once the ball breaks the plane, the play is dead. He deliberately smacked him after the play.
Now we have no clue on his motivations. Smith might have had a bounty on him resulting in the hit (and attempted injury). Smith also might've been running his mouth all game making derogatory comments about Jenkins' mother resembling a female dog. However with the scandal, hits like this will be under even more scrutiny than they were previously.
Re: Saints latest woes
Man I'm sorry that over the years that I've missed all these bone crushing career ending hits that I'm sure of course no malice was intended.
I will say this much then I'm out and everyone can take the moral high ground and say the game is clean, until the Saints came along of course. How about the other teams that supposedly participated in Greg Williams Bounty scheme? Oh and yes their Super Bowl championship should be taken away of course because we are sure they were dirty.
Lets wait and see when all the facts come out and allegations are proven or not what happens. If in fact the RULES of the game were broken, which by the way I happen to be a life long advocate of RULES, remember I was a player. And if they were warned of a RULES violation. (Since when does something as volatile as Bounties) warrant only a phone call "clean it up" "we don't want to get caught" If the facts prove true, that the Saints organization ignored continued Rules violations and supposed warnings from the NFL.
I will agree that just punishment is due. How's that????
Man I'm sorry that over the years that I've missed all these bone crushing career ending hits that I'm sure of course no malice was intended.
I will say this much then I'm out and everyone can take the moral high ground and say the game is clean, until the Saints came along of course. How about the other teams that supposedly participated in Greg Williams Bounty scheme? Oh and yes their Super Bowl championship should be taken away of course because we are sure they were dirty.
Lets wait and see when all the facts come out and allegations are proven or not what happens. If in fact the RULES of the game were broken, which by the way I happen to be a life long advocate of RULES, remember I was a player. And if they were warned of a RULES violation. (Since when does something as volatile as Bounties) warrant only a phone call "clean it up" "we don't want to get caught" If the facts prove true, that the Saints organization ignored continued Rules violations and supposed warnings from the NFL.
I will agree that just punishment is due. How's that????
Re: Saints latest woes
How mean!
What have we become?
Imagine the cruelty of it all!
People actually trying to hurt other people for money.
Oh wait, isn't that what UFC and boxing are about?
NFL players should not have to have a bounty pool in order to play hard every play.
Hell, they make millions of $$ a year for doing it.
How mean!
What have we become?
Imagine the cruelty of it all!
People actually trying to hurt other people for money.
Oh wait, isn't that what UFC and boxing are about?
NFL players should not have to have a bounty pool in order to play hard every play.
Hell, they make millions of $$ a year for doing it.
Re: Saints latest woes
Certainly we can all agree that the Saints are Evil!
Certainly we can all agree that the Saints are Evil!
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Man I'm sorry that over the years that I've missed all these bone crushing career ending hits that I'm sure of course no malice was intended.
I will say this much then I'm out and everyone can take the moral high ground and say the game is clean, until the Saints came along of course. How about the other teams that supposedly participated in Greg Williams Bounty scheme? Oh and yes their Super Bowl championship should be taken away of course because we are sure they were dirty.
Lets wait and see when all the facts come out and allegations are proven or not what happens. If in fact the RULES of the game were broken, which by the way I happen to be a life long advocate of RULES, remember I was a player. And if they were warned of a RULES violation. (Since when does something as volatile as Bounties) warrant only a phone call "clean it up" "we don't want to get caught" If the facts prove true, that the Saints organization ignored continued Rules violations and supposed warnings from the NFL.
I will agree that just punishment is due. How's that???? </div></div>
I'm just writing what information has come out.
#1 Bounties - especially paid in by coaches is against the rules/CBA agreement
#2 NFl caught wind of it and basically said it is against the rules, stop it
#3 Morally I just think issuing bounties is classless...like I said I have no issues with hard play etc...but the actual issuing of bounties I think is retarded and ridiculous
#4 After they were informed by the NFL to put an end to it, they continued it.
That is all I know and if true and throw the book at them. From what has come out it does SEEM like it is true.
Noone is saying the game is pure and clean. But the Saints were caught. Just like the Patriots with spygate where other old coaches etc came out and said it wasn't as big a deal as others made it out to be and they were sure others at one time or other had done it...didn't matter, the Patriots were the ones that were caught (becuase they were playing a former coach who knew and there was some animosity going on) and they paid the price for it. Just as the Saints will if the evidence is there.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Man I'm sorry that over the years that I've missed all these bone crushing career ending hits that I'm sure of course no malice was intended.
I will say this much then I'm out and everyone can take the moral high ground and say the game is clean, until the Saints came along of course. How about the other teams that supposedly participated in Greg Williams Bounty scheme? Oh and yes their Super Bowl championship should be taken away of course because we are sure they were dirty.
Lets wait and see when all the facts come out and allegations are proven or not what happens. If in fact the RULES of the game were broken, which by the way I happen to be a life long advocate of RULES, remember I was a player. And if they were warned of a RULES violation. (Since when does something as volatile as Bounties) warrant only a phone call "clean it up" "we don't want to get caught" If the facts prove true, that the Saints organization ignored continued Rules violations and supposed warnings from the NFL.
I will agree that just punishment is due. How's that????
I'm just writing what information has come out.
#1 Bounties - especially paid in by coaches is against the rules/CBA agreement
#2 NFl caught wind of it and basically said it is against the rules, stop it
#3 Morally I just think issuing bounties is classless...like I said I have no issues with hard play etc...but the actual issuing of bounties I think is retarded and ridiculous
#4 After they were informed by the NFL to put an end to it, they continued it.
That is all I know and if true and throw the book at them. From what has come out it does SEEM like it is true.
Noone is saying the game is pure and clean. But the Saints were caught. Just like the Patriots with spygate where other old coaches etc came out and said it wasn't as big a deal as others made it out to be and they were sure others at one time or other had done it...didn't matter, the Patriots were the ones that were caught (becuase they were playing a former coach who knew and there was some animosity going on) and they paid the price for it. Just as the Saints will if the evidence is there.
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How mean!
What have we become?
Imagine the cruelty of it all!
People actually trying to hurt other people for money.
Oh wait, isn't that what UFC and boxing are about?
NFL players should not have to have a bounty pool in order to play hard every play.
Hell, they make millions of $$ a year for doing it.
</div></div>
The UFC and boxing have rules just like any other sport. Both are policed decently, could be better and it could be worse. One huge mistake I remember by Paul Daley, he punched Josh Koscheck after the fight was over because he lost and got banned from the UFC. Skirt the rules and integrity of the game all you want... It'll catch up to someone.
Dag, if you read my 1st post I said Saints, Redskins and other teams. Keep making false claims and assuming you know how everyone thinks because you played pro baseball. It's working out great for you.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How mean!
What have we become?
Imagine the cruelty of it all!
People actually trying to hurt other people for money.
Oh wait, isn't that what UFC and boxing are about?
NFL players should not have to have a bounty pool in order to play hard every play.
Hell, they make millions of $$ a year for doing it.
</div></div>
The UFC and boxing have rules just like any other sport. Both are policed decently, could be better and it could be worse. One huge mistake I remember by Paul Daley, he punched Josh Koscheck after the fight was over because he lost and got banned from the UFC. Skirt the rules and integrity of the game all you want... It'll catch up to someone.
Dag, if you read my 1st post I said Saints, Redskins and other teams. Keep making false claims and assuming you know how everyone thinks because you played pro baseball. It's working out great for you.
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Certainly we can all agree that the Saints are Evil! </div></div>
I actually threw this thread up in a hope that I'd beat you to it QQ. LOL... I'm glad that it took you this long to call the Saints evil.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Certainly we can all agree that the Saints are Evil! </div></div>
I actually threw this thread up in a hope that I'd beat you to it QQ. LOL... I'm glad that it took you this long to call the Saints evil.
Re: Saints latest woes
So, with Greg Williams leaving, Drew Brees having contract issues and now the "Bounty" story glowing aflame, this is not starting off as a good year for Saints football. I agree that the NFL portrays itself as an entity that is looking out for the well being of all of its participants, but the sport is based on big men trying to do harm to each other. My team has to do everything in my power to stop you from gaining ground... But, it needs to be done within the confines of the rules. No Cobra Kai leg sweeps to intentionally take a player out of the game, but if I can hurt you without getting a penalty, it's all good. So, is the big issue really over money? Does the bounty program adding money over the allowed salary cap become the violation? Do quarterbacks or running backs awarding their lineman with a Rolex or other prize for allowing them to have a big game or season fall in the same light?
If it's about money, let that be the issue. If there were illegal hits that were not called, that's on the officials for blowing a call. The guy from Detroit getting the boot for stomping on the opposing player has been the only obvious flagrant penalty I've seen recently.
And Greg Williams (according to former players) ran a similar bounty program with the Redskins and Bills while he coached there. So, maybe the Saints got busted and they will serve as an example to the rest of the NFL.
Woe to me and the Who Dats.... I guess I'll have to learn to accept the bashing from QQ.
So, with Greg Williams leaving, Drew Brees having contract issues and now the "Bounty" story glowing aflame, this is not starting off as a good year for Saints football. I agree that the NFL portrays itself as an entity that is looking out for the well being of all of its participants, but the sport is based on big men trying to do harm to each other. My team has to do everything in my power to stop you from gaining ground... But, it needs to be done within the confines of the rules. No Cobra Kai leg sweeps to intentionally take a player out of the game, but if I can hurt you without getting a penalty, it's all good. So, is the big issue really over money? Does the bounty program adding money over the allowed salary cap become the violation? Do quarterbacks or running backs awarding their lineman with a Rolex or other prize for allowing them to have a big game or season fall in the same light?
If it's about money, let that be the issue. If there were illegal hits that were not called, that's on the officials for blowing a call. The guy from Detroit getting the boot for stomping on the opposing player has been the only obvious flagrant penalty I've seen recently.
And Greg Williams (according to former players) ran a similar bounty program with the Redskins and Bills while he coached there. So, maybe the Saints got busted and they will serve as an example to the rest of the NFL.
Woe to me and the Who Dats.... I guess I'll have to learn to accept the bashing from QQ.
Re: Saints latest woes
Football is tough sport, is what it is. Been this way for years. Goodell is trying to turn it into the NBA where they do not play defense. Not to mention this has gone on one way or the other at every program Pro or college, just a part of the sport.
Football is tough sport, is what it is. Been this way for years. Goodell is trying to turn it into the NBA where they do not play defense. Not to mention this has gone on one way or the other at every program Pro or college, just a part of the sport.
Re: Saints latest woes
Re: Saints latest woes
I think there is a line. Yes you want to lay big hits and lay people out etc. But laying someone out and getting a big hit to me are different than purposefully injuring someone lol.
I mean someone just interviewed Romanowski who many said was dirty player etc and he even stated at first it was blown out of proportion but then seemed to backtrack saying something to the effect that yh you want to hit people hard and lay them out. But never did you want to seriously injury a player and make them leave the game or put their careers in jeopardy by breaking their bones etc.
Think that sums it up pretty well.
I think there is a line. Yes you want to lay big hits and lay people out etc. But laying someone out and getting a big hit to me are different than purposefully injuring someone lol.
I mean someone just interviewed Romanowski who many said was dirty player etc and he even stated at first it was blown out of proportion but then seemed to backtrack saying something to the effect that yh you want to hit people hard and lay them out. But never did you want to seriously injury a player and make them leave the game or put their careers in jeopardy by breaking their bones etc.
Think that sums it up pretty well.
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The NFL is so hypocritical!! C'mon as if the Saints invented smashing people for money!! And by the way go back and find me one hit on film during that time that was an illegal hit!!!!
So take all this boo hoo hoo crap we wanna be safe and stick it where the sun don't shine!! </div></div>
One ain't hard at all.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That play, clearly, should have been flagged by referee Pete Morelli. The league admitted it a couple days later, and ended up fining McCray $20,000 for that play and another earlier in the game when he drove himself into Favre after a handoff. (A handoff, mind you; not a pass. How often have you seen unnecessary roughness called on a defensive player for hitting the quarterback after a handoff? I can't recall ever seeing that, aside from this play.)
Interesting what might have happened had Morelli thrown the flag.
The game was tied at 21 when Favre threw the interception, then got chopped down. The resulting personal foul against McCray would have given the Vikings a first down at the New Orleans 24 with 1:59 left in the third quarter. Let's say Favre, who was helped off the field with his ankle injury after the play, missed the rest of that series and Tarvaris Jackson, the backup, entered the game. Let's assume, for a moment, that the drive stalled and the Vikings had fourth down from the Saints 20-yard line. That would have set up a weather-less 37-yard field-goal try by Ryan Longwell (28 of 30 in field goals that season). Would it have made a difference in the outcome of the game, which was 28-28 after four quarters? The game of course was won by the Saints, 31-28, in overtime.
</div></div>
Here:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/03/06/mail/index.html
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The NFL is so hypocritical!! C'mon as if the Saints invented smashing people for money!! And by the way go back and find me one hit on film during that time that was an illegal hit!!!!
So take all this boo hoo hoo crap we wanna be safe and stick it where the sun don't shine!! </div></div>
One ain't hard at all.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That play, clearly, should have been flagged by referee Pete Morelli. The league admitted it a couple days later, and ended up fining McCray $20,000 for that play and another earlier in the game when he drove himself into Favre after a handoff. (A handoff, mind you; not a pass. How often have you seen unnecessary roughness called on a defensive player for hitting the quarterback after a handoff? I can't recall ever seeing that, aside from this play.)
Interesting what might have happened had Morelli thrown the flag.
The game was tied at 21 when Favre threw the interception, then got chopped down. The resulting personal foul against McCray would have given the Vikings a first down at the New Orleans 24 with 1:59 left in the third quarter. Let's say Favre, who was helped off the field with his ankle injury after the play, missed the rest of that series and Tarvaris Jackson, the backup, entered the game. Let's assume, for a moment, that the drive stalled and the Vikings had fourth down from the Saints 20-yard line. That would have set up a weather-less 37-yard field-goal try by Ryan Longwell (28 of 30 in field goals that season). Would it have made a difference in the outcome of the game, which was 28-28 after four quarters? The game of course was won by the Saints, 31-28, in overtime.
</div></div>
Here:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/03/06/mail/index.html
Re: Saints latest woes
The NFL announced Wednesday that New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton will be suspended for one season without pay for his involvement in the team's bounty program. Saints general manager Mickey Loomis has been suspended for eight games. Former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams has been suspended indefinitely.
The NFL revealed March 2 the findings of a lengthy investigation into a Saints "bounty" program that gave thousands of dollars in payoffs to players for hits that knocked opponents out of games. The program, administered by then-defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, reached its height in 2009, the season the Saints won the Super Bowl.
The program ran in violation of league rules, and the investigation showed that Saints players received $1,500 for a "knockout" hit and $1,000 for a "cart-off" hit, with payouts doubling or tripling during the team's three playoff appearances.
The NFL Players Association formally requested that the league not punish the 22 to 27 players it cited in the scandal until the union had completed its independent investigation, which is underway, an NFLPA source told NFL.com's Steve Wyche.
The league initially did not respond to the union's request. The NFL told the NFLPA last Thursday, according to SI.com, that it was free to question any current or former Saints officials about the matter, but that it would not delay announcing its own decisions.
"We have given your requests careful consideration, and have concluded that there is no basis for delaying the imposition of any discipline in this matter, and particularly not as it may apply to a club or any non-player employee of a club," NFL attorney Jeff Pash wrote in the letter to union general counsel Richard Berthelsen on Wednesday. "Any disciplinary action affecting any player would be imposed only in a manner consistent with our Collective Bargaining Agreement. As you know, the sole authority to investigate and impose discipline in this matter rests with the Commissioner."
Williams, now defensive coordinator of the Rams, has admitted to and apologized for running the program.
Saints head coach Sean Payton and general manager Mickey Loomis also were implicated in the scandal, and they released a statement March 6 in which they took full responsibility for the violations.
"We acknowledge that the violations disclosed by the NFL during their investigation of our club happened under our watch. We take full responsibility. This has brought undue hardship on (owner Tom) Benson, who had nothing to do with this activity. He has been nothing but supportive and for that we both apologize to him.
"These are serious violations and we understand the negative impact it has had on our game. Both of us have made it clear within our organization that this will never happen again, and make that same promise to the NFL and most importantly to all of our fans."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82...1_breaking_news
The NFL announced Wednesday that New Orleans Saints coach Sean Payton will be suspended for one season without pay for his involvement in the team's bounty program. Saints general manager Mickey Loomis has been suspended for eight games. Former defensive coordinator Gregg Williams has been suspended indefinitely.
The NFL revealed March 2 the findings of a lengthy investigation into a Saints "bounty" program that gave thousands of dollars in payoffs to players for hits that knocked opponents out of games. The program, administered by then-defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, reached its height in 2009, the season the Saints won the Super Bowl.
The program ran in violation of league rules, and the investigation showed that Saints players received $1,500 for a "knockout" hit and $1,000 for a "cart-off" hit, with payouts doubling or tripling during the team's three playoff appearances.
The NFL Players Association formally requested that the league not punish the 22 to 27 players it cited in the scandal until the union had completed its independent investigation, which is underway, an NFLPA source told NFL.com's Steve Wyche.
The league initially did not respond to the union's request. The NFL told the NFLPA last Thursday, according to SI.com, that it was free to question any current or former Saints officials about the matter, but that it would not delay announcing its own decisions.
"We have given your requests careful consideration, and have concluded that there is no basis for delaying the imposition of any discipline in this matter, and particularly not as it may apply to a club or any non-player employee of a club," NFL attorney Jeff Pash wrote in the letter to union general counsel Richard Berthelsen on Wednesday. "Any disciplinary action affecting any player would be imposed only in a manner consistent with our Collective Bargaining Agreement. As you know, the sole authority to investigate and impose discipline in this matter rests with the Commissioner."
Williams, now defensive coordinator of the Rams, has admitted to and apologized for running the program.
Saints head coach Sean Payton and general manager Mickey Loomis also were implicated in the scandal, and they released a statement March 6 in which they took full responsibility for the violations.
"We acknowledge that the violations disclosed by the NFL during their investigation of our club happened under our watch. We take full responsibility. This has brought undue hardship on (owner Tom) Benson, who had nothing to do with this activity. He has been nothing but supportive and for that we both apologize to him.
"These are serious violations and we understand the negative impact it has had on our game. Both of us have made it clear within our organization that this will never happen again, and make that same promise to the NFL and most importantly to all of our fans."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82...1_breaking_news
Re: Saints latest woes
Found a work around
Found a work around
Re: Saints latest woes
Way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way too harsh of a penalty
Way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way too harsh of a penalty
Re: Saints latest woes
Agreed. Way too harsh of a penalty.
Agreed. Way too harsh of a penalty.
Re: Saints latest woes
The commissioner was lied to... when was the last time he was lied to? Michael Vick and what happened to him, long suspension.
I still can't see how they can suspend a head coach for a full year,that is nuts. I can see maybe 8 weeks, possibly 12 but the full 16 is going to be tough on the team. This should probably deter future bounty 'programs'.
The commissioner was lied to... when was the last time he was lied to? Michael Vick and what happened to him, long suspension.
I still can't see how they can suspend a head coach for a full year,that is nuts. I can see maybe 8 weeks, possibly 12 but the full 16 is going to be tough on the team. This should probably deter future bounty 'programs'.
Re: Saints latest woes
I agree...the pending litigation kinda left the Saints as the perfect opportunity for the NFL to demonstrate how concerned it is about the safety of the players. Of course, also in the best interests of the safety of players, the NFL continues to market its best selling video “Most Vicious Hits of the NFL” for $19.95 each!!! After each hit, they haul a player off. You would think NFL is associated with the fed gov.
Funny this was sent to me by an attorney friend of mine in Dallas. And Oh by the way he is a Cowboys fan!!
I agree...the pending litigation kinda left the Saints as the perfect opportunity for the NFL to demonstrate how concerned it is about the safety of the players. Of course, also in the best interests of the safety of players, the NFL continues to market its best selling video “Most Vicious Hits of the NFL” for $19.95 each!!! After each hit, they haul a player off. You would think NFL is associated with the fed gov.
Funny this was sent to me by an attorney friend of mine in Dallas. And Oh by the way he is a Cowboys fan!!
Re: Saints latest woes
I will start watching again when the head coach is back on the sidelines, what a crock of shit! If these guys didn't want to get get hurt they should've picked a different sport. I think paying for injuries may have been a little to honest for our new found sensitive, coddled society. When I first started being a Saints fan was when they had Iron head Craig Hayward, Pat Swilling, Sam Mills and they all played hard smash mouth football! They never had the greatest records back then, but they always played hard and HIT HARD too. Some of the other players that I looked up to growing up Chuck Cecil, Ronnie Lott, John Lynch, Steve Atwater, Lawrence Taylor (before he got all cracked out of his mind) These guys played hard and hit hard and I am sure that there were several players carted off the field due to hits these gentlemen layed on them and they probably got paid better because of it! I just think our whole society is turning in to a bunch of pussies, we have been paying these animals to beat on eachother for years, now all of the sudden we are going to get all touchy feely because we are realizing that after years of playing a violent game (for MILLIONS of dollars) these guys are having serious injuries....gimme a break....
I will start watching again when the head coach is back on the sidelines, what a crock of shit! If these guys didn't want to get get hurt they should've picked a different sport. I think paying for injuries may have been a little to honest for our new found sensitive, coddled society. When I first started being a Saints fan was when they had Iron head Craig Hayward, Pat Swilling, Sam Mills and they all played hard smash mouth football! They never had the greatest records back then, but they always played hard and HIT HARD too. Some of the other players that I looked up to growing up Chuck Cecil, Ronnie Lott, John Lynch, Steve Atwater, Lawrence Taylor (before he got all cracked out of his mind) These guys played hard and hit hard and I am sure that there were several players carted off the field due to hits these gentlemen layed on them and they probably got paid better because of it! I just think our whole society is turning in to a bunch of pussies, we have been paying these animals to beat on eachother for years, now all of the sudden we are going to get all touchy feely because we are realizing that after years of playing a violent game (for MILLIONS of dollars) these guys are having serious injuries....gimme a break....
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hognuts</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will start watching again when the head coach is back on the sidelines, what a crock of shit! If these guys didn't want to get get hurt they should've picked a different sport. I think paying for injuries may have been a little to honest for our new found sensitive, coddled society. When I first started being a Saints fan was when they had Iron head Craig Hayward, Pat Swilling, Sam Mills and they all played hard smash mouth football! They never had the greatest records back then, but they always played hard and HIT HARD too. Some of the other players that I looked up to growing up Chuck Cecil, Ronnie Lott, John Lynch, Steve Atwater, Lawrence Taylor (before he got all cracked out of his mind) These guys played hard and hit hard and I am sure that there were several players carted off the field due to hits these gentlemen layed on them and they probably got paid better because of it! I just think our whole society is turning in to a bunch of pussies, we have been paying these animals to beat on eachother for years, now all of the sudden we are going to get all touchy feely because we are realizing that after years of playing a violent game (for MILLIONS of dollars) these guys are having serious injuries....gimme a break.... </div></div>
Well said Hognuts. That early 90's Saints team was great!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hognuts</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will start watching again when the head coach is back on the sidelines, what a crock of shit! If these guys didn't want to get get hurt they should've picked a different sport. I think paying for injuries may have been a little to honest for our new found sensitive, coddled society. When I first started being a Saints fan was when they had Iron head Craig Hayward, Pat Swilling, Sam Mills and they all played hard smash mouth football! They never had the greatest records back then, but they always played hard and HIT HARD too. Some of the other players that I looked up to growing up Chuck Cecil, Ronnie Lott, John Lynch, Steve Atwater, Lawrence Taylor (before he got all cracked out of his mind) These guys played hard and hit hard and I am sure that there were several players carted off the field due to hits these gentlemen layed on them and they probably got paid better because of it! I just think our whole society is turning in to a bunch of pussies, we have been paying these animals to beat on eachother for years, now all of the sudden we are going to get all touchy feely because we are realizing that after years of playing a violent game (for MILLIONS of dollars) these guys are having serious injuries....gimme a break.... </div></div>
Well said Hognuts. That early 90's Saints team was great!
Re: Saints latest woes
I've moved on and gave up the hope of an appeal. Put Pete Carmichael in the head spot and let's roll on to the spring training.
I just wish that they'd go ahead and announce the punishment for the players.
I've moved on and gave up the hope of an appeal. Put Pete Carmichael in the head spot and let's roll on to the spring training.
I just wish that they'd go ahead and announce the punishment for the players.
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have two kids, Thank you for asking. And they both happen to be athletes. And taking people out have been part of the game since its inception. We're talking about pro athletes bro. Is it right? You seem to be the expert.
If a guy tried to take me out on a double play I'd try and make him eat the baseball on the relay. If it ended his career, sorry it happened. I chose to play a game that at any time someone could end my career.
You pay money to see NFL players waltzing around in panties? And I injected my experience so I wouldn't get a lecture by some know it all feel good High School coach.
Wanna know what's wrong with this country, take a look at the people that are teaching our kids. Go ahead everyone's a winner, give em all a trophy! And please make sure no one gets hurt! </div></div>
The Saints WERE A ONE TRICK PONY. I say were because there done. Kind of like LSU except they were a 2 trick pony that would swollow
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have two kids, Thank you for asking. And they both happen to be athletes. And taking people out have been part of the game since its inception. We're talking about pro athletes bro. Is it right? You seem to be the expert.
If a guy tried to take me out on a double play I'd try and make him eat the baseball on the relay. If it ended his career, sorry it happened. I chose to play a game that at any time someone could end my career.
You pay money to see NFL players waltzing around in panties? And I injected my experience so I wouldn't get a lecture by some know it all feel good High School coach.
Wanna know what's wrong with this country, take a look at the people that are teaching our kids. Go ahead everyone's a winner, give em all a trophy! And please make sure no one gets hurt! </div></div>
The Saints WERE A ONE TRICK PONY. I say were because there done. Kind of like LSU except they were a 2 trick pony that would swollow
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm stunned, I thought my sister in law was the only ass hole in Texas. </div></div>
Well now you and the SAINTS ARE BOTH STUNNED AND FUCK.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dagsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm stunned, I thought my sister in law was the only ass hole in Texas. </div></div>
Well now you and the SAINTS ARE BOTH STUNNED AND FUCK.
Re: Saints latest woes
Does your sister swollow
Does your sister swollow
Re: Saints latest woes
I don't really think it is all that harsh but that's just me. Poeple complaining about how football isn't for pansies etc. Yes of course that is true but running bounty programs I think invites dirty play, ie twisting an opposing player's ankle in the pile becuase YOU ARE PURPOSELY TRYING TO INJURE AND GET SOMEONE OUT FOR THE GAME/SEASON.
I have seen plenty brutal hits on players but are clean and more often than not the player walks away albeit maybe dazed. Great, love big hits. But when a team is instituting a bounty program to severely injure a player (ie purposely break bones etc) it can cause dirty play, late hits etc that should not be in the game.
I don't really think it is all that harsh but that's just me. Poeple complaining about how football isn't for pansies etc. Yes of course that is true but running bounty programs I think invites dirty play, ie twisting an opposing player's ankle in the pile becuase YOU ARE PURPOSELY TRYING TO INJURE AND GET SOMEONE OUT FOR THE GAME/SEASON.
I have seen plenty brutal hits on players but are clean and more often than not the player walks away albeit maybe dazed. Great, love big hits. But when a team is instituting a bounty program to severely injure a player (ie purposely break bones etc) it can cause dirty play, late hits etc that should not be in the game.
Re: Saints latest woes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nesikabay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does your sister swollow </div></div>
And the rocket scientist knows how to spell too!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nesikabay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does your sister swollow </div></div>
And the rocket scientist knows how to spell too!!
