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DBM why so damn exspensive??

Shanerbanner10

Primer Denter
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Jan 13, 2012
    1,423
    246
    Oklahoma
    I'm looking around for a DBM system for a rifle i'm building however call me a cheapass if you'd like but i can not justify 300$ for such a simple design. Does anyone know of anyone that makes a quality product for less than 150$?! for a rem short action.


    Just noticed I put this in the wrong section... my bad!
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    i seen a rifle with the dbm from jerry it had an alpha one mag in it and it fit very nice i really like it. the pt&G looks a lot like jerrys just doesnt have the ambi mag release. the pt&G is 129 without mags.then u have to add the cost of inletting. 75 from ga precision. another option is the wyatts system does not require inletting but has proprietary mags and they are single stack.pt&G also makes a drop in one like wyatts but uses the wyatts mags
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    Simply because its still in the 'custom made product' department (or low product) and not mass produced... So for them to make any kind of livable profit they have to charge alot more, rather than the mass production theory of charging little but just selling alot more.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Apa for $200

    Great design and well made

    </div></div>

    Agree. Love mine!
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    DBMs are not usually the expensive part... its the mags.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    Having produced bottom metal it looks simple but there are multiple machine set ups to produce these not to mention you have to pick who's magazine you intend to use since there are so many and they all fit differently I prefer AI mags there the most consistent and don't rattle in my bottoms. Buck up once you spend the funds it only enhances your weapon. You get what you pay for.

    Hang in there I'm sure the Chinese will offer something someday.
    Just dogging you a little I understand the expense thats why I build my own. There are cheaper bottoms out there but you do get what you pay for.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    Hire someone to build you one then you will realize how cheap it is just to buy one that someone has already done the research measurement and manufacturing for you.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    I completely understand that it takes man hours and lots of machining. And trust me spending the money once is easy to say however if you saw the paycheck the government was giving me you may think otherwise. I'm about to deploy so I'll probably end up just saving up and going with the top quality stuff
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ShaneRemmy7custom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I completely understand that it takes man hours and lots of machining. And trust me spending the money once is easy to say however if you saw the paycheck the government was giving me you may think otherwise. I'm about to deploy so I'll probably end up just saving up and going with the top quality stuff </div></div>

    I always regret when I dont buy the best the first time. Go with the M5.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    Yea that's the pt&g dbm system.^^^ cdI, pt&g, and atlas worx will be about the same price range after inlet and mag purchase
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    +1 for APA. I just ordered mine last week. Very unique design. For $200 can't go wrong. I agree with the OP on the DBM. WAY overpriced.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    Will a M5 or similar DBM use the same inlet as the M4 or will I need to re-inlet?
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    If ya think they are so expensive maybe you should get a file and smock and get after it! CNC mill time ain't cheap.
    grin.gif
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    I bought the M5, worth the money for sure. Solid piece, cry once buy once.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trilogymac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If ya think they are so expensive maybe you should get a file and smock and get after it! CNC mill time ain't cheap.
    grin.gif
    </div></div>

    Haha i'll get right on that. I do have a full year or so to file that thing in there. just gotta get my stock back from the smith. Hmmm wonder if he'll ship it to the middle east, at least i'd have something to do over there. I think i'll use one of those files on fingernail clipers. wonder how long that'd take?


    105 amatt: M5 looks good as well. I am kinda in a toss up right now. it will be a while before i actually press the buy button on one of these products in the mean time might as well gather information
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    will jerry do the inletting too? is there a website i can go to or a phone number?
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ShaneRemmy7custom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm looking around for a DBM system for a rifle i'm building however call me a cheapass if you'd like but i can not justify 300$ for such a simple design. Does anyone know of anyone that makes a quality product for less than 150$?! for a rem short action.


    Just noticed I put this in the wrong section... my bad! </div></div>

    CDI has group buys from time to time.. Price is $169 plus shipping
    http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2999301#Post2999301

    Also you could go to a machine shop and have them make one for you, but I think you will find why they are so expensive.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    I machine long and short from water jet cut stock . It has more 7075t6 than any other types made by the other folks and I sell it for 99 bucks to the military . I will be selling long soon and I will make sure no one gets ripped off. I think 110 dollars ea. will be the price . China steals our work because of greed . Thanks Dave
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    The purchase of a detachable box magazine is not a "necessary expense". A purchase such as that of a DMB is what economists call an "expenditure of discretionary income". What that means is that you have plenty enough money to buy toys. People who make toys know that, so, they get as much as they can. It's a seller's market.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    We dont sell to economists. We sell to Gunsmiths and rifle builders that have kids to feed.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kiff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We dont sell to economists. We sell to Gunsmiths and rifle builders that have kids to feed. </div></div>

    I've bought DBMs and I have a degree in economics
    wink.gif
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    Well, all it would take is one enterprising young fellow to come along who has some CAD experience and a CNC milling center.

    He could generate a program, create some product, go to market with it, figure out how long it would take for him to recover his costs, figure out how much he needed to live on per year and set his selling price.

    If he was good and had a good product, he could lowball the competition, get most of the business, increase his sales and reduce the selling price even more by buying additional equipment and so on and so on and so on and so on.

    If someone comes into the market place who is pretty quick in the accounting/finance department, you just may see a decline in the retail costs of such items. Sort of like the "gas price wars" of olden days (I know none of you young folk remember those).

    Simple economics, supply and demand, customer's willingness to pay the asking price. All of that happy horse poop.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    Good luck.

    I bought a 12 year old rifle, a Dakota Arms Longbow in .338 LM, last month and would like to add a DBM to it.

    No dice.

    I have contacted no fewer than 8 different manufacturers who have summarily told me no, there's no DBM unit made for that gun. Even the guy who built the gun, now at GAP, says there isn't one.

    Here's the thing. Screw the CAD/CAM and all that, how about basic gunsmithing?

    A bottom metal unit is made by at least a half dozen companies in that caliber.

    How about some simple cutting and welding in an extension to make up the half inch space between a Rem 700 LA action screw spacing and the 8 inches on the Dakota and doing some simple machining to fit, make sure the base metal and magazine line up and work every time.

    I haven't found anyone who is up to the task.

    You haven't spoken to gunsmiths, and neither have I apparently. I can use a dremel (or a 3 axis mill) to cut and paste to fit a STANDARD unit as well as the next WECSOG gunsmith, but I don't have the welding equipment, skills, or tools and experience to make a NON-standard unit from parts. Couple hours labor, milling, trimming, fitting. Cost? It was a $3,000 rifle. Shoots fine. I just want options and would pay for them.

    Rant mode off.

    Like I said, good luck. Your fix sounds simple.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    confucious once say "the man who requires a magazine fed bolt action rifle, is same man who feels 200-300 for quality DBM is fair price, his brother who no likey price may, just may, not really need a DBM"
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    Buy a Savage, it comes with a DBM for free. Extra 10 round mags from various sources are $80 each.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    I've pretty much decided to go with the PTG dbm. Seems like a good system and i've read plenty of good things.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sab9259</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Will a M5 or similar DBM use the same inlet as the M4 or will I need to re-inlet? </div></div>

    A Badger M5 will not drop into a M4 inlet. The mag box on the M5 body is larger than the M4's inlet cut.

    They are similar, but they are not the same.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ShaneRemmy7custom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I completely understand that it takes man hours and lots of machining. And trust me spending the money once is easy to say however if you saw the paycheck the government was giving me you may think otherwise. I'm about to deploy so I'll probably end up just saving up and going with the top quality stuff</div></div>

    Call Jeff at CDI, he'll give you a 10% military discount. I just sent him a stock today to inlet and install his DBM.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    I have my rifle already chillin in UT at Deadly Precision Gunsmithing, getting a complete make over. After talking with thier smith he is going to inlet it for a ptg dbm and make it happen. pretty dang stoked!

    USMC mustang, thanks for the heads up on CDI i may go with them on the next build.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    Isn't everything in shooting sports expensive? What's 1000rds of quality .308 ammo run for these days? In the big picture, don't sweat the little things. On the other hand, do you need DBM or do you just want it? Internal box mags work just fine on lots of my guns.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    There's always a difference between price and cost. If you're looking for an $89 DBM, you'll just be satisfied that you have a DBM, but chances are, you won't like it.

    If you step up to the target area pertaining to price, where 99% of the manufacturers feel they need to be in order to compete, you end up selecting something based on price, but still at a cost. Magazines will still rattle and geometry still isn't correct, but again, you have a DBM. This is the "it's good enough" approach.

    Basically, you should determine if you want a DBM for the sake of having a DBM and then deal with cost over price, or if you really need a DBM for what it offers operationally/functionally.

    Most manufacturers are making the exact same thing and trying to stay within what somehow has been determined as the target pricing structure. My observation is that theres an attempt to drive the price down, which raises the overall cost to the user. This is termed as "design to manufacture," where the goal is to make a cheap part from the beginning by focusing on low price over quality. The opposite of this is "manufacture to design," where a superior design comes at a higher price, but a lower cost. The key for the end user is understanding the difference.
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    Mike , you tell me how the best bottom metal should be made and I will make it. But I will not raise the prise more than we have it. I talked with Jerry stiller and our two companies are sick and tired of shit parts for hi prices . I dont want to hear how somthing should look or work. I am the guy with the help of folks here on the Hide, You and the gents at Crane and Stiller's to make it happen . With 121 machines and 120 pluss tool makers ,machinests . I wont be pissing around. A new customer You know well sent some well known bottom mettal in today and asked if I could make better for less . the 389 doller shit they sent me to look at wasnt as good as my worst scrap. I think people have been taken atvantige of for to long. If a person has an idea to make the best then let's get it done . Thank Dave Kiff
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    All I can say is that the entire UK rely on Mr Kiff for reamers. Why not trust him for DBM, it's beaufitul.


    It will take the UK by storm. Even with duty it is cheaper than anything offered here.

    Pint at the bar for you Mr Kiff.

    ATB

    Dave

    Top Edit Reply
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    Hi Dave,
    You're correct and you're certainly on top of your game. There are a few out there that I won't install as part of any build because I have to do a lot to them.

    After wiping the slate clean, I designed and prototyped my own about four years ago and the unique, patent pending features have been very well received. My <span style="font-weight: bold">system</span> is priced higher based on these features, which is why I speak to price versus cost.

    A lot of guys I know have bought and tried numerous systems in the same rifle only to find out that it's a matter of what they're willing to accept. When it was all said and done, they could have spent the amount once on one superior system with significantly less hassle.

    Thanks Dave and keep up the good work.

     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    Mike, you do have some nice stuff and that is alot more to machine cost wise . I never thought much about the bottom metal year's ago . You always talked to me about quality and how it was lacking now I know why. Most of the points you talked about back then about machined finish,hell the three I seen today are Cast or Potmetal. Im going to be calling you this week to talk about the metal that your freind's company needs me to build. I want to get a perfect draft. Thanks Dave
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kiff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I machine long and short from water jet cut stock . It has more 7075t6 than any other types made by the other folks and I sell it for 99 bucks to the military . I will be selling long soon and I will make sure no one gets ripped off. I think 110 dollars ea. will be the price . China steals our work because of greed . Thanks Dave </div></div>

    Those are great prices! I've used Badger Ordnance, CDi Precision, and American Precision Arms and they are all well built. APA and Surgeon make two of the nicest looking sets I've seen. Defiance Machine has a really sharp looking bottom on their website now.

    But bottom metal for less than $120 that uses AICS / Alpha Mags will be a real game changer!
     
    Re: DBM why so damn exspensive??

    Thanks You Dave Kiff you a true asset to the precison shooting community and a real friend to the average working rifleman.