im going to purchase a savage tr but not sure if i should get it in 22lr or 17hmr. i know i can shoot a lot more if i got with the 22lr but i like the speed and accuracy of the 17. anyone have any pros and cons? i think i will go with the threaded barrel version because i want to get a can sometime in the future. let me know what u guys think
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Re: .17HMR or 22LR
type ".22lr or .17hmr" or ".22 or .17" in the google search for multitudes of threads with identical question, answers, pros and cons, and the debates that soon ensue.
type ".22lr or .17hmr" or ".22 or .17" in the google search for multitudes of threads with identical question, answers, pros and cons, and the debates that soon ensue.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
Hell, I will play along. I have both. I guess my thought would be on the application. If you are just shooting paper, go with a 22, it's cheap to shoot and it is deathly quiet with a suppressor. Shooting paper with a 17 is fun but is more expensive. If you have small game to shoot and plan to apply metal to meat, the 17 is wonderful.
Hell, I will play along. I have both. I guess my thought would be on the application. If you are just shooting paper, go with a 22, it's cheap to shoot and it is deathly quiet with a suppressor. Shooting paper with a 17 is fun but is more expensive. If you have small game to shoot and plan to apply metal to meat, the 17 is wonderful.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
yea. i have a bunch of 22's and one 17. its a marlin with a nice heavy barrel and a nice thumbhole stock. but what i want is a practice rifle to practice my basic skills. i want it to be accurate and reach out if i want it to. every once in a while i go squirrel hunting and it just depends which one i want to use that day. i bought a 22 AR for my three gun training and a 22 1911 for the same purpose. now i want something to practice my long range stuff with. i really like the savage tr, i would like to pimp it out and make it all tacticool. its just hard to decide on caliber. i guess i dont know which one will be more practical for training. i know 22 will be cheaper but id like to reach out far with it. like 3-400 yards. im thinking the heavier 22 will be better than the light 17.
yea. i have a bunch of 22's and one 17. its a marlin with a nice heavy barrel and a nice thumbhole stock. but what i want is a practice rifle to practice my basic skills. i want it to be accurate and reach out if i want it to. every once in a while i go squirrel hunting and it just depends which one i want to use that day. i bought a 22 AR for my three gun training and a 22 1911 for the same purpose. now i want something to practice my long range stuff with. i really like the savage tr, i would like to pimp it out and make it all tacticool. its just hard to decide on caliber. i guess i dont know which one will be more practical for training. i know 22 will be cheaper but id like to reach out far with it. like 3-400 yards. im thinking the heavier 22 will be better than the light 17.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
I have alot of property and an orchard that attracts ground squirrels. Shooting squirrels is great sport, but more importantly, the only good ground squirrel is a dead one so I dont want to miss... ever. I found the .22 works very accurately out to 100 yards. The .17 is fantastically accurate to 175 yards if there is no wind. Both are quiet enough to not annoy the neighbors.
Hope this helps.
I have alot of property and an orchard that attracts ground squirrels. Shooting squirrels is great sport, but more importantly, the only good ground squirrel is a dead one so I dont want to miss... ever. I found the .22 works very accurately out to 100 yards. The .17 is fantastically accurate to 175 yards if there is no wind. Both are quiet enough to not annoy the neighbors.
Hope this helps.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
i wish i had an orchard with squirrels. i have a creek that holds a lot but an orchard would be sweet.
i wish i had an orchard with squirrels. i have a creek that holds a lot but an orchard would be sweet.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
I went through the same internal battle when I bought my first rimfire. I wanted the hmr real bad, but the .22lr is the much smarter decision.
First it will be a lot quieter with a can since you can shoot subsonic ammo through it. The cost of ammo is no joke, I make a good amount of money but I sometimes feel like I can't afford to shoot anything but .22. The .22 is accurate too, especially if you do the right things to the savage. As you get out to longer ranges the .22 will be a lot more useful as a trainer when you are learning the mildot etc. It drops a lot but so does a .308 at 1000 yards. Spend your money on shooting as much as you can. You won't regret the .22.
I went through the same internal battle when I bought my first rimfire. I wanted the hmr real bad, but the .22lr is the much smarter decision.
First it will be a lot quieter with a can since you can shoot subsonic ammo through it. The cost of ammo is no joke, I make a good amount of money but I sometimes feel like I can't afford to shoot anything but .22. The .22 is accurate too, especially if you do the right things to the savage. As you get out to longer ranges the .22 will be a lot more useful as a trainer when you are learning the mildot etc. It drops a lot but so does a .308 at 1000 yards. Spend your money on shooting as much as you can. You won't regret the .22.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
i like your response hollow point. another thing i was looking at was that boyds makes the tacticool stock for my marlin 17. but the trigger on it fuckin sucks! so i could get the stock 100+85 for rifle basix trigger. or just get the savage trr sr? im leaning towards getting the savage and pimping out my marlin eventually. i fucking hate these type of decisions
i like your response hollow point. another thing i was looking at was that boyds makes the tacticool stock for my marlin 17. but the trigger on it fuckin sucks! so i could get the stock 100+85 for rifle basix trigger. or just get the savage trr sr? im leaning towards getting the savage and pimping out my marlin eventually. i fucking hate these type of decisions
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
Get the 22LR. It can perform miracles out past 200 yards if you know what you are doing and have a good rig. It is not unheard of to get 1/2 inch groups at 200 yards. Make a turret label and you will be making first round hits at 200+ yards.
Get the 22LR. It can perform miracles out past 200 yards if you know what you are doing and have a good rig. It is not unheard of to get 1/2 inch groups at 200 yards. Make a turret label and you will be making first round hits at 200+ yards.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
.22LR, and HMR after you decide that the .22LR, WMR, and 17HM2 don't do it for you, especially if you already have .22 trainers for everything else.
.22LR, and HMR after you decide that the .22LR, WMR, and 17HM2 don't do it for you, especially if you already have .22 trainers for everything else.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
interesting tidbit, I was shooting a game at our local club where we shoot 1/3 scale silhouette targets, at 40m, 60m, and 77m i had no issues with my 17 hummer, but at 100 on the ram target, that was another story, i literally had to smack it in the top of the horn to get enough movement to knock it off the stand. with my 40x shooting standard velocity, i was able to shoot right in the middle of the target, and 3 out of 4 times produce a knock over.
as for accuracy, my 40x is much more accurate than my 17 inside of 150 yards, but outside that the 17 shines
interesting tidbit, I was shooting a game at our local club where we shoot 1/3 scale silhouette targets, at 40m, 60m, and 77m i had no issues with my 17 hummer, but at 100 on the ram target, that was another story, i literally had to smack it in the top of the horn to get enough movement to knock it off the stand. with my 40x shooting standard velocity, i was able to shoot right in the middle of the target, and 3 out of 4 times produce a knock over.
as for accuracy, my 40x is much more accurate than my 17 inside of 150 yards, but outside that the 17 shines
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: isaaccarlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get the 22LR. It can perform miracles out past 200 yards if you know what you are doing and have a good rig. <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">It is not unheard of to get 1/2 inch groups at 200 yar</span>ds.</span> Make a turret label and you will be making first round hits at 200+ yards. </div></div>
Ya right. lol 22lr getting 1/2 @ 200 yards... then you woke up. Were does this stuff come from? 1/2 @50 yards is good for a 22lr, 1/2 @ 100 yards is awesome......
Basically what your saying is that a 22lr is capable of 1/4 MOA shooting? Funny thing is top built centerfire rigs with hand loads do not claim 1/4 MOA capable, but yet somehow 22lr with the worst power to weight, non-jacketed lead ball bullet is able to do so? This stuff makes me laugh. Maybe bullets in Wisconsin shoot better than bullets here.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: isaaccarlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get the 22LR. It can perform miracles out past 200 yards if you know what you are doing and have a good rig. <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">It is not unheard of to get 1/2 inch groups at 200 yar</span>ds.</span> Make a turret label and you will be making first round hits at 200+ yards. </div></div>
Ya right. lol 22lr getting 1/2 @ 200 yards... then you woke up. Were does this stuff come from? 1/2 @50 yards is good for a 22lr, 1/2 @ 100 yards is awesome......
Basically what your saying is that a 22lr is capable of 1/4 MOA shooting? Funny thing is top built centerfire rigs with hand loads do not claim 1/4 MOA capable, but yet somehow 22lr with the worst power to weight, non-jacketed lead ball bullet is able to do so? This stuff makes me laugh. Maybe bullets in Wisconsin shoot better than bullets here.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GotCox</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: isaaccarlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get the 22LR. It can perform miracles out past 200 yards if you know what you are doing and have a good rig. <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">It is not unheard of to get 1/2 inch groups at 200 yar</span>ds.</span> Make a turret label and you will be making first round hits at 200+ yards. </div></div>
Ya right. lol 22lr getting 1/2 @ 200 yards... then you woke up. Were does this stuff come from? 1/2 @50 yards is good for a 22lr, 1/2 @ 100 yards is awesome......
Basically what your saying is that a 22lr is capable of 1/4 MOA shooting? Funny thing is top built centerfire rigs with hand loads do not claim 1/4 MOA capable, but yet somehow 22lr with the worst power to weight, non-jacketed lead ball bullet is able to do so? This stuff makes me laugh. Maybe bullets in Wisconsin shoot better than bullets here. </div></div>
Yeah man, haven't you heard? 1/4 MOA out to 200 (at least!) is the new standard for .22 LR. haha.
To the OP, get the .22 LR and shoot the snot out of it. There is no replacement for trigger time and .22 LR gives you that cheap. Find the best cheap stuff you can and shoot it until your fingers start to bleed, then do it a few thousand times more. This is the way that shooters go from good to great. If your budget allows you to do that with 17HMR, then go for it! Mine doesn't.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GotCox</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: isaaccarlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get the 22LR. It can perform miracles out past 200 yards if you know what you are doing and have a good rig. <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">It is not unheard of to get 1/2 inch groups at 200 yar</span>ds.</span> Make a turret label and you will be making first round hits at 200+ yards. </div></div>
Ya right. lol 22lr getting 1/2 @ 200 yards... then you woke up. Were does this stuff come from? 1/2 @50 yards is good for a 22lr, 1/2 @ 100 yards is awesome......
Basically what your saying is that a 22lr is capable of 1/4 MOA shooting? Funny thing is top built centerfire rigs with hand loads do not claim 1/4 MOA capable, but yet somehow 22lr with the worst power to weight, non-jacketed lead ball bullet is able to do so? This stuff makes me laugh. Maybe bullets in Wisconsin shoot better than bullets here.
Yeah man, haven't you heard? 1/4 MOA out to 200 (at least!) is the new standard for .22 LR. haha.
To the OP, get the .22 LR and shoot the snot out of it. There is no replacement for trigger time and .22 LR gives you that cheap. Find the best cheap stuff you can and shoot it until your fingers start to bleed, then do it a few thousand times more. This is the way that shooters go from good to great. If your budget allows you to do that with 17HMR, then go for it! Mine doesn't.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
I have seen and shot 1/2" groups at 200 yards with a 22lr.
It is not an everyday event, but it can and does happen.
Subsonic bullets have different properties than supersonic bullets. They don't have to cope with shock waves and are not traveling in a partial vacuum which changes vector.
There is an optimal speed for every projectile, you just have to match the two. I have seen air rifles stack pellets at over 100 yards, and I mean STACK. Maybe lead does fly straighter here in WI, or maybe it's the person pulling the trigger.
Here is something for you to chew on.....
100 yards pellet gun
100 yards
I have seen and shot 1/2" groups at 200 yards with a 22lr.
It is not an everyday event, but it can and does happen.
Subsonic bullets have different properties than supersonic bullets. They don't have to cope with shock waves and are not traveling in a partial vacuum which changes vector.
There is an optimal speed for every projectile, you just have to match the two. I have seen air rifles stack pellets at over 100 yards, and I mean STACK. Maybe lead does fly straighter here in WI, or maybe it's the person pulling the trigger.
Here is something for you to chew on.....
100 yards pellet gun
100 yards
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: isaaccarlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen and shot 1/2" groups at 200 yards with a 22lr.
It is not an everyday event, but it can and does happen.
Subsonic bullets have different properties than supersonic bullets. They don't have to cope with shock waves and are not traveling in a partial vacuum which changes vector.
There is an optimal speed for every projectile, you just have to match the two. I have seen air rifles stack pellets at over 100 yards, and I mean STACK. Maybe lead does fly straighter here in WI, or maybe it's the person pulling the trigger.
Here is something for you to chew on.....
100 yards pellet gun
100 yards </div></div>
What ever dude. I have two ARA BR rimfire 22lr national champion shooters at my local range. They both have more money in there rifles than you do in your car. And they will be the first to tell you that 1/4 @ 100 yards with the best Eley match ammo out of there gun is shear dumb luck and not repeatable or quotable as what it is able to do.
And what does a video of an airgun shooting 1.5" @ 100 yards have to do with 1/4" @ 100 out of a 22lr? Or shooting a 6" bird at 90-125 yards? Ted is an awesome shot and i enjoy his channel, but apples to oranges man.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: isaaccarlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen and shot 1/2" groups at 200 yards with a 22lr.
It is not an everyday event, but it can and does happen.
Subsonic bullets have different properties than supersonic bullets. They don't have to cope with shock waves and are not traveling in a partial vacuum which changes vector.
There is an optimal speed for every projectile, you just have to match the two. I have seen air rifles stack pellets at over 100 yards, and I mean STACK. Maybe lead does fly straighter here in WI, or maybe it's the person pulling the trigger.
Here is something for you to chew on.....
100 yards pellet gun
100 yards </div></div>
What ever dude. I have two ARA BR rimfire 22lr national champion shooters at my local range. They both have more money in there rifles than you do in your car. And they will be the first to tell you that 1/4 @ 100 yards with the best Eley match ammo out of there gun is shear dumb luck and not repeatable or quotable as what it is able to do.
And what does a video of an airgun shooting 1.5" @ 100 yards have to do with 1/4" @ 100 out of a 22lr? Or shooting a 6" bird at 90-125 yards? Ted is an awesome shot and i enjoy his channel, but apples to oranges man.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: isaaccarlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen and shot 1/2" groups at 200 yards with a 22lr.
<span style="color: #CC0000">It is not an everyday event, but it can and does happen.</span></div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: isaaccarlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe lead does fly straighter here in WI, <span style="color: #CC0000">or maybe it's the person pulling the trigger</span>.</div></div>
Well, obviously if you can't make it happen consistently then it is NOT your shooting skills causing the groups. And since we all know that lead doesn't fly straighter in WI, then we must conclude that this is just more internet bullshit. Can the thread crapping discontinue now?
Edit: I'm not saying you haven't shot amazing groups with your rifle at 200 yards. I don't know, and I could not care any less if you have. What I do care about is if you can repeat it with any consistency. And since you have told us that you cannot do this, then I would have to render your 1/4MOA group @200 yards a mute point because it cannot be repeated at will.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: isaaccarlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen and shot 1/2" groups at 200 yards with a 22lr.
<span style="color: #CC0000">It is not an everyday event, but it can and does happen.</span></div></div><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: isaaccarlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe lead does fly straighter here in WI, <span style="color: #CC0000">or maybe it's the person pulling the trigger</span>.</div></div>
Well, obviously if you can't make it happen consistently then it is NOT your shooting skills causing the groups. And since we all know that lead doesn't fly straighter in WI, then we must conclude that this is just more internet bullshit. Can the thread crapping discontinue now?
Edit: I'm not saying you haven't shot amazing groups with your rifle at 200 yards. I don't know, and I could not care any less if you have. What I do care about is if you can repeat it with any consistency. And since you have told us that you cannot do this, then I would have to render your 1/4MOA group @200 yards a mute point because it cannot be repeated at will.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
Wow...
A really good 22LR will give you moa performance at 100 yards...allegedly.
I say "allegedly", because I'm yet to see that 22. I have a 22 trainer, as do several of my buddies, including Savage, CZ452, 40X, Kimber Govt, and Sako.
I gone to my club's 22 benchrest matches (local - no national champions or anything), and I've never seen a 22LR lay down a 10-shot honest to goodness 1 moa group at 100.
I'm sure they exist, but it just aint that common.
On the other hand, I've shot, and witnessed plenty of ~$300 17hmr rifles shoot sub-moa at 100 yards.
For me, that makes the choice (for a TRAINER rifle) between 22LR and 17hmr easy. 17hmr. A 1.5moa rifle doesn't teach me jack shit - unless practicing offhand shooting. Offhand shooting is the only time I can't handily outshoot the rifle.
Even at $9/box of 50 cartridges for 17hmr, thats cheap. Not to mention, if your match-type 22 only shoots "well" with the Eley or Lapua 22 ammo, you could end up spending $9/box for it, too. Don't count on $18/550 bricks of 22 ammo to shoot better than 2 moa (and oftentimes worse). Ask yourself what you want out of the rifle. If you want feedback on how accurately you're shooting, I don't think the 22LR is a good choice.
Wow...
A really good 22LR will give you moa performance at 100 yards...allegedly.
I say "allegedly", because I'm yet to see that 22. I have a 22 trainer, as do several of my buddies, including Savage, CZ452, 40X, Kimber Govt, and Sako.
I gone to my club's 22 benchrest matches (local - no national champions or anything), and I've never seen a 22LR lay down a 10-shot honest to goodness 1 moa group at 100.
I'm sure they exist, but it just aint that common.
On the other hand, I've shot, and witnessed plenty of ~$300 17hmr rifles shoot sub-moa at 100 yards.
For me, that makes the choice (for a TRAINER rifle) between 22LR and 17hmr easy. 17hmr. A 1.5moa rifle doesn't teach me jack shit - unless practicing offhand shooting. Offhand shooting is the only time I can't handily outshoot the rifle.
Even at $9/box of 50 cartridges for 17hmr, thats cheap. Not to mention, if your match-type 22 only shoots "well" with the Eley or Lapua 22 ammo, you could end up spending $9/box for it, too. Don't count on $18/550 bricks of 22 ammo to shoot better than 2 moa (and oftentimes worse). Ask yourself what you want out of the rifle. If you want feedback on how accurately you're shooting, I don't think the 22LR is a good choice.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
For me, 22LR. Personally I'm over the whole groups thing. I put some small steel at usually 100, 150, and 200 and sometimes further, and it is loads of fun! Either one is better than neither! haha Good luck!
For me, 22LR. Personally I'm over the whole groups thing. I put some small steel at usually 100, 150, and 200 and sometimes further, and it is loads of fun! Either one is better than neither! haha Good luck!
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
thats kinda what i was thinking that with the 22 good groups only out to 50yards thats cool but id like to shoot farther. i know that the 17 is more accurate i know that cuz i have owned two and now own one. the 22 is just a lot of fun, its quiet, no recoil and i wanna get a can for it. when me and my buddy go shoot he brings this old ass 22 with a tasco bb gun scope and we're smacking steel at 400 yards. now that being said its not consistant. the scope sucks to adjust, the trigger is like 10 pounds but all in all its awesome. i just think that the 17 might be to light for that and ive never tried it out past 200. i think what i will do is ditch the thumbhole stock and trigger on my marlin and get a rifle basix and a boyds stock. anyone have any other reccomendations on the trigger.o yea and i will just get a tr in 22lr so i have the best of both worlds
thats kinda what i was thinking that with the 22 good groups only out to 50yards thats cool but id like to shoot farther. i know that the 17 is more accurate i know that cuz i have owned two and now own one. the 22 is just a lot of fun, its quiet, no recoil and i wanna get a can for it. when me and my buddy go shoot he brings this old ass 22 with a tasco bb gun scope and we're smacking steel at 400 yards. now that being said its not consistant. the scope sucks to adjust, the trigger is like 10 pounds but all in all its awesome. i just think that the 17 might be to light for that and ive never tried it out past 200. i think what i will do is ditch the thumbhole stock and trigger on my marlin and get a rifle basix and a boyds stock. anyone have any other reccomendations on the trigger.o yea and i will just get a tr in 22lr so i have the best of both worlds
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
22 magnum is always a good option. You can reach out with that, and use regular 22 LR for closer stuff.
22 magnum is always a good option. You can reach out with that, and use regular 22 LR for closer stuff.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
do they make the savage tr in that cal?
do they make the savage tr in that cal?
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Big_Rig_416</div><div class="ubbcode-body">22 magnum is always a good option. You can reach out with that, and use regular 22 LR for closer stuff. </div></div>
This post implies you can fire 22LR from a 22mag rifle, which of course, you can't.
Not flaming, just making sure...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Big_Rig_416</div><div class="ubbcode-body">22 magnum is always a good option. You can reach out with that, and use regular 22 LR for closer stuff. </div></div>
This post implies you can fire 22LR from a 22mag rifle, which of course, you can't.
Not flaming, just making sure...
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
I was just thinking... Hornady needs to come out with a 20hmr.
17 cal bullets just don't have the mass/BC to hang in the wind, and the 22mag case just doesn't have the horsepower to effectively launch a "high-ish" bc 22 bullet. The 20hmr would really dominate.
I was just thinking... Hornady needs to come out with a 20hmr.
17 cal bullets just don't have the mass/BC to hang in the wind, and the 22mag case just doesn't have the horsepower to effectively launch a "high-ish" bc 22 bullet. The 20hmr would really dominate.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
that would be nice
that would be nice
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
check out the 5mm rimfire.
they are only around in limited availability.
check out the 5mm rimfire.
they are only around in limited availability.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: isaaccarlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen and shot 1/2" groups at 200 yards with a 22lr.
It is not an everyday event, but it can and does happen.
Subsonic bullets have different properties than supersonic bullets. They don't have to cope with shock waves and are not traveling in a partial vacuum which changes vector.
There is an optimal speed for every projectile, you just have to match the two. I have seen air rifles stack pellets at over 100 yards, and I mean STACK. Maybe lead does fly straighter here in WI, or maybe it's the person pulling the trigger.
Here is something for you to chew on.....
100 yards pellet gun
100 yards </div></div>
All very interesting. Why don't you post pics and/or measurements of the 20 best, 10 shot groups you've ever fired @ 200 yards and share your results?
Back on topic: I do feel that 1.5 MOA capable 100 yard shooting rifles can teach us an awful lot about wind reading, target lead (when applicable), and technique in general. I've found that making the transition from rimfire to centerfire was very easy and almost seemed like cheating. Shooting a .22 LR into a ~2 MOA group @ 200 translates to making a 500 yard shot in the field seem relatively easy when you have an accurate centerfire rifle in your hands.
Just my .02.
-The Kid.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: isaaccarlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen and shot 1/2" groups at 200 yards with a 22lr.
It is not an everyday event, but it can and does happen.
Subsonic bullets have different properties than supersonic bullets. They don't have to cope with shock waves and are not traveling in a partial vacuum which changes vector.
There is an optimal speed for every projectile, you just have to match the two. I have seen air rifles stack pellets at over 100 yards, and I mean STACK. Maybe lead does fly straighter here in WI, or maybe it's the person pulling the trigger.
Here is something for you to chew on.....
100 yards pellet gun
100 yards </div></div>
All very interesting. Why don't you post pics and/or measurements of the 20 best, 10 shot groups you've ever fired @ 200 yards and share your results?
Back on topic: I do feel that 1.5 MOA capable 100 yard shooting rifles can teach us an awful lot about wind reading, target lead (when applicable), and technique in general. I've found that making the transition from rimfire to centerfire was very easy and almost seemed like cheating. Shooting a .22 LR into a ~2 MOA group @ 200 translates to making a 500 yard shot in the field seem relatively easy when you have an accurate centerfire rifle in your hands.
Just my .02.
-The Kid.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
Only time the 22 "trains" me is offhand shooting, or a very windy day.
22 would be way better if it was just accurate! The horrific BC, softball-like trajectory and complete inability to hang in the wind are great tools...
Only time the 22 "trains" me is offhand shooting, or a very windy day.
22 would be way better if it was just accurate! The horrific BC, softball-like trajectory and complete inability to hang in the wind are great tools...
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
I went with the 22lr for my rig. Hopefully I'll get a pic up soon. CZ452 with a Manners stock, a mini me of my GAP Rock in a Manners. I figured all the 22lr's short comings are exactly what I needed in a trainer, makes you work.
But...I was also, almost on the same page as your 17HMR thought but centerfire .17. I have a Rem 700 LTR that shoots almost as good as the GAP. This is my hunting rig, and since I am addicted to the classified board here and all the shit you boys unload triggers a reflex action. I have the makings of a bad ass little varmint hunter. I have an action and a take off LTR stock which I am seriously thinking about having chambered in 17 Rem, or .20 practical, or something similar. A sub cal LTR....yeah, I know they come in .223, but what fun is that.
I'd like to see those 1/2" 200yd 22lr groups myself. Groups like that are usually shot in dim light from a bar stool.
I went with the 22lr for my rig. Hopefully I'll get a pic up soon. CZ452 with a Manners stock, a mini me of my GAP Rock in a Manners. I figured all the 22lr's short comings are exactly what I needed in a trainer, makes you work.
But...I was also, almost on the same page as your 17HMR thought but centerfire .17. I have a Rem 700 LTR that shoots almost as good as the GAP. This is my hunting rig, and since I am addicted to the classified board here and all the shit you boys unload triggers a reflex action. I have the makings of a bad ass little varmint hunter. I have an action and a take off LTR stock which I am seriously thinking about having chambered in 17 Rem, or .20 practical, or something similar. A sub cal LTR....yeah, I know they come in .223, but what fun is that.
I'd like to see those 1/2" 200yd 22lr groups myself. Groups like that are usually shot in dim light from a bar stool.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow...
A really good 22LR will give you moa performance at 100 yards...allegedly.
I say "allegedly", because I'm yet to see that 22. I have a 22 trainer, as do several of my buddies, including Savage, CZ452, 40X, Kimber Govt, and Sako.
I gone to my club's 22 benchrest matches (local - no national champions or anything), and I've never seen a 22LR lay down a 10-shot honest to goodness 1 moa group at 100.
I'm sure they exist, but it just aint that common.</div></div>
I'm your Huckleberry... come on down to Dallas and I'll do it for you. Heck there are several guys down here that will pull that off. None of us are benchrest shooters, these are straight trainers and we use bipods and shoot off the shoulder. My 40X has approx. 500 5-shot groups recorded in its log book and the average is currently 1.034" center to center. You're more than welcome to yank the trigger yourself if you'd like but don't blame me for the smile that's stuck on your face.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow...
A really good 22LR will give you moa performance at 100 yards...allegedly.
I say "allegedly", because I'm yet to see that 22. I have a 22 trainer, as do several of my buddies, including Savage, CZ452, 40X, Kimber Govt, and Sako.
I gone to my club's 22 benchrest matches (local - no national champions or anything), and I've never seen a 22LR lay down a 10-shot honest to goodness 1 moa group at 100.
I'm sure they exist, but it just aint that common.</div></div>
I'm your Huckleberry... come on down to Dallas and I'll do it for you. Heck there are several guys down here that will pull that off. None of us are benchrest shooters, these are straight trainers and we use bipods and shoot off the shoulder. My 40X has approx. 500 5-shot groups recorded in its log book and the average is currently 1.034" center to center. You're more than welcome to yank the trigger yourself if you'd like but don't blame me for the smile that's stuck on your face.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
I dont get the 17hmr round. Its the first rifle I bought. Put 100 rounds through it and sold it for a 22lr. 17 is more accurate, better ballistics, longer range that the 22lr but so is almost every other cartridge. 17hmr is as expensive as .223. If you like to hunt varmints its an ok cartridge but its just an improved 22wmr. Its a very niche cartridge that I just dont get.
I dont get the 17hmr round. Its the first rifle I bought. Put 100 rounds through it and sold it for a 22lr. 17 is more accurate, better ballistics, longer range that the 22lr but so is almost every other cartridge. 17hmr is as expensive as .223. If you like to hunt varmints its an ok cartridge but its just an improved 22wmr. Its a very niche cartridge that I just dont get.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont get the 17hmr round. Its the first rifle I bought. Put 100 rounds through it and sold it for a 22lr. 17 is more accurate, better ballistics, longer range that the 22lr but so is almost every other cartridge. 17hmr is as expensive as .223. If you like to hunt varmints its an ok cartridge but its just an improved 22wmr. Its a very niche cartridge that I just dont get. </div></div>
The whole point of the 17hmr is a small, fast, flat shooting rimfire round that has extended ranges and more of today's ballistic knowledge built into it. It does anything a 22lr can and does it better. And using the price of ammo to compare is fine, once you find out how much it costs to get 22lr ammo that compares to 17hmr ammo at 100yards..... Once you do and see the $25 for 50 rounds on the side of the Eley or tennex box you will see that the 17hmr has cheap rounds for the accuracy it provides. I buy my ammo at $10 a box of 50 at the local stores.
The 17hmr is not for everyone and those who are happy with the accuracy they get from bulk 22lr ammo have no worries. But if you ask me there is nothing to learn, or "train" for when your shooting crap ammo that has no better accuracy through your rifle than 2MOA. If your trying to make your self a better shooter and prefect your shooting i do not see how your doing your self any favors.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont get the 17hmr round. Its the first rifle I bought. Put 100 rounds through it and sold it for a 22lr. 17 is more accurate, better ballistics, longer range that the 22lr but so is almost every other cartridge. 17hmr is as expensive as .223. If you like to hunt varmints its an ok cartridge but its just an improved 22wmr. Its a very niche cartridge that I just dont get. </div></div>
The whole point of the 17hmr is a small, fast, flat shooting rimfire round that has extended ranges and more of today's ballistic knowledge built into it. It does anything a 22lr can and does it better. And using the price of ammo to compare is fine, once you find out how much it costs to get 22lr ammo that compares to 17hmr ammo at 100yards..... Once you do and see the $25 for 50 rounds on the side of the Eley or tennex box you will see that the 17hmr has cheap rounds for the accuracy it provides. I buy my ammo at $10 a box of 50 at the local stores.
The 17hmr is not for everyone and those who are happy with the accuracy they get from bulk 22lr ammo have no worries. But if you ask me there is nothing to learn, or "train" for when your shooting crap ammo that has no better accuracy through your rifle than 2MOA. If your trying to make your self a better shooter and prefect your shooting i do not see how your doing your self any favors.
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
Buy a CZ 455 in 22lr and 17 hmr. Bud's has them on sale and I bought my wife one. I have three CZ's now and one Savage. Get the CZ. AND you can get a 22 mag barrel for 129.00. and if you really need one you can get the 17 hmr2 for same price. 4 guns for the price of a good scope..VORTEX or SS
Buy a CZ 455 in 22lr and 17 hmr. Bud's has them on sale and I bought my wife one. I have three CZ's now and one Savage. Get the CZ. AND you can get a 22 mag barrel for 129.00. and if you really need one you can get the 17 hmr2 for same price. 4 guns for the price of a good scope..VORTEX or SS
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
On the other hand, I've shot, and witnessed plenty of ~$300 17hmr rifles shoot sub-moa at 100 yards. </div></div>
I've seen that as well, my cheapo savage with a Millet scope on it easily prints sub MOA at 100 as does my friends slightly less cheapo savage (he went with the fancy wood stock).
I'm convinced it doesn't even take skill to shoot the .17 passably off the bench... my wife goes to the range with me once a year if I'm lucky and she and turns out targets like this at 100 off the bipod with a rear bag. OK, it's over MOA but <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">she shoots less than 30 rounds per year.</span></span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
On the other hand, I've shot, and witnessed plenty of ~$300 17hmr rifles shoot sub-moa at 100 yards. </div></div>
I've seen that as well, my cheapo savage with a Millet scope on it easily prints sub MOA at 100 as does my friends slightly less cheapo savage (he went with the fancy wood stock).
I'm convinced it doesn't even take skill to shoot the .17 passably off the bench... my wife goes to the range with me once a year if I'm lucky and she and turns out targets like this at 100 off the bipod with a rear bag. OK, it's over MOA but <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">she shoots less than 30 rounds per year.</span></span>
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
I have both. A Savage Mark II TR in 22LR and a Ruger 77/17 in Hummer. Like each for its own merits.
Like sub-sonic and standard velocity choices in the 22LR in addition to the higher velocity loads available. Like the 2550 fps on the .17 HMR and its accuracy...
Good luck with your decision...JaxOps
I have both. A Savage Mark II TR in 22LR and a Ruger 77/17 in Hummer. Like each for its own merits.
Like sub-sonic and standard velocity choices in the 22LR in addition to the higher velocity loads available. Like the 2550 fps on the .17 HMR and its accuracy...
Good luck with your decision...JaxOps
Re: .17HMR or 22LR
I love the 17 Hummer. That said, ammo cost is nothing like 22lr. However, if you catch the sales that some big box retailers have, especially at the beginning of Spring, the cost is actually not too bad. I just paid 8.50/box for Hornady 17gr V-Max's (that was with a damn 5.50 mail in rebate per box), still a great deal. Capitalize then and the cost issue is moot.
I love the 17 Hummer. That said, ammo cost is nothing like 22lr. However, if you catch the sales that some big box retailers have, especially at the beginning of Spring, the cost is actually not too bad. I just paid 8.50/box for Hornady 17gr V-Max's (that was with a damn 5.50 mail in rebate per box), still a great deal. Capitalize then and the cost issue is moot.
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