• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Gunsmithing Barrel flutinz!

LRI

Lance Criminal
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Mar 14, 2010
    6,314
    7,416
    52
    Sturgis, S. Dakota
    www.longriflesinc.com
    Finally got my fixturing/programming all sorted out for putting flutes on a barrel. The best part is when we do the bolts the two match! Same cutter gets used. Pretty stoked about it as I get requests for it all the time it seems.

    Been very busy lately. We finally got our new paint booth installed. Down draft, mobile, filtered, and lit up like a tanning bed! Were pretty stoked and our livers will thank us down the road. Fumes were getting pretty bad at times.

    Here's the barrel work:

    DSC_0013.jpg


    DSC_0012.jpg
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    Thanks.

    1st one came out perty nice. I've got 3 to do. I kinda want to change them up a bit, but I don't know the cst well enough to "experiment" on his stuff. I was thinking 7 or 8 flutes instead of the usual 6. Or I could change cutters to a narrower one and go with 10 or 12.

    This opens lots of doors/options for us.

    Fun stuff.

    C.
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    Shit you can practice on mine if you want buddy. Would be kinda cool to have a bolt and barrel to match. Let me know or call if ya want.
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    Good God Man! What next!!
    laugh.gif


    I can feel the wallet getting thinner already!!
    cry.gif


    "X" or a diamond pattern doable I would imagine!?

    Any diameter restriction?
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chad, doesn't look like you're doing that on a 4th axis. Any reason (other than you don't have a 4th axis mill)? </div></div>


    Meh? It is a 4 axis. Look closer. It's mounted directly to the rotary drive via a C5 Bison collet chuck.
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: N.Allen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good God Man! What next!!
    laugh.gif


    I can feel the wallet getting thinner already!!
    cry.gif


    "X" or a diamond pattern doable I would imagine!?

    Any diameter restriction?
    </div></div>

    Length is about the only limitation. 27" blanks are ok with a max flute length of 22". Patterns are only limited to imagination I guess.


    Wait till you see the new paint booth Neil. Perty cool!



     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chad, doesn't look like you're doing that on a 4th axis. Any reason (other than you don't have a 4th axis mill)? </div></div>


    Meh? It is a 4 axis. Look closer. It's mounted directly to the rotary drive via a C5 Bison collet chuck. </div></div>

    Deleted my stupid post...

    My computer took forever to load the pictures, and I only saw the first one... [/dumbass]
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    No worries.

    Worst part of this is the 45minute cycle time. Not much else to do than sit and baby sit. . .
    smile.gif
    I've set it up to go .02" depth of cut for each pass (total of 3 with a .005" finish)

    Could prolly go more aggressive, but am chicken for fear of goofin with the barrel steel and making a mess of the bore.

     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    It appears you're supporting the center of the barrel to cut vibrations down, which means between each index of your 4th axis, you need to remove your support and then re-set it.

    That implies you are completing each flute before moving on to the next...?

    Think there is any benefit to cutting flute 1 say .010" deep, then moving onto flute 2 etc etc etc... So that you are removing material equally around the barrel?

    Obviously, that would be a PITA to reset your support for nearly every pass of your cutter...
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: N.Allen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good God Man! What next!!
    laugh.gif


    I can feel the wallet getting thinner already!!
    cry.gif


    "X" or a diamond pattern doable I would imagine!?

    Any diameter restriction?
    </div></div>

    Length is about the only limitation. 27" blanks are ok with a max flute length of 22". Patterns are only limited to imagination I guess.


    Wait till you see the new paint booth Neil. Perty cool!



    </div></div> Glad to hear you've got a dedicated booth Chad! Sure will be easier on the 'ole air bags!

    We're comin over for prolly our last hockey weekend. Will stop an see ya!
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It appears you're supporting the center of the barrel to cut vibrations down, which means between each index of your 4th axis, you need to remove your support and then re-set it.

    That implies you are completing each flute before moving on to the next...?

    Think there is any benefit to cutting flute 1 say .010" deep, then moving onto flute 2 etc etc etc... So that you are removing material equally around the barrel?

    Obviously, that would be a PITA to reset your support for nearly every pass of your cutter... </div></div>


    Not reseting anything. You didn't really think I'd show ALL of the fixturing did you!
    smile.gif


    It's a "load, run, walk away" setup.

    As time allows I'll revamp it a little more so that I can push the feedrates up a bit more. Just to reduce cycle times. Finish looks perty good so far. I'm on the 2nd barrel now. One more after this.
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It appears you're supporting the center of the barrel to cut vibrations down, which means between each index of your 4th axis, you need to remove your support and then re-set it.

    That implies you are completing each flute before moving on to the next...?

    Think there is any benefit to cutting flute 1 say .010" deep, then moving onto flute 2 etc etc etc... So that you are removing material equally around the barrel?

    Obviously, that would be a PITA to reset your support for nearly every pass of your cutter... </div></div>

    the center vee block support shouldn't need to move.
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: N.Allen</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: N.Allen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good God Man! What next!!
    laugh.gif


    I can feel the wallet getting thinner already!!
    cry.gif


    "X" or a diamond pattern doable I would imagine!?

    Any diameter restriction?
    </div></div>

    Length is about the only limitation. 27" blanks are ok with a max flute length of 22". Patterns are only limited to imagination I guess.


    Wait till you see the new paint booth Neil. Perty cool!



    </div></div> Glad to hear you've got a dedicated booth Chad! Sure will be easier on the 'ole air bags!

    We're comin over for prolly our last hockey weekend. Will stop an see ya! </div></div>

    Sweet! Yesser, goodbye and good riddance to the circus tent contraption we had before.
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: N.Allen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good God Man! What next!!
    laugh.gif


    I can feel the wallet getting thinner already!!
    cry.gif


    "X" or a diamond pattern doable I would imagine!?

    Any diameter restriction?
    </div></div>

    Length is about the only limitation. 27" blanks are ok with a max flute length of 22". Patterns are only limited to imagination I guess.


    Wait till you see the new paint booth Neil. Perty cool!



    </div></div>


    Your High Helix would look pretty bad ass on a barrel. I may be over that way this Saturday as well so I may make an appearance myself....
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    Chad,
    I was just going to call and ask if you were set up for fluting yet.
    The next project in line will need fluting.
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    DSC_0012.jpg
    </div></div>
    That must have been what was causing all the racket when you called today.
    Too bad you were already done with mine!
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!


    [/quote]

    Length is about the only limitation.
    [/quote]

    Heehee heard that before...

    Yes spiral flutes would be the shizzle for sure. Will be over in the next few weeks unless I send shit over with Trevor...
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    how important is it that the flutes are spaced evenly? When the barrel heats up will improper flutes cause the barrel to warp in any direction?
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    Not to try and derail this thread, but someone told me that places like Kampfeld use water jets to cut their flutes.

    Is that true? If it is, how the heck do they do that? I cant figure out how they would cut a groove without cutting through the barrel.

    Also, does cutting flutes cause any stress in the barrel that can result in accuracy issues after the fact?
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    I don't think it'd be possible with a water jet. A sinker EDM could I guess if your a sicko who loves to make life extra complicated.

    Understand that ANY machining operation using a cutter/insert to remove material does not "induce" stress. It relieves it. Seriously.

    A simple example. Take a ball of rubber bands. Start snipping at it with scissors. Your removing stress by doing so. The caveat though is that you may not be removing it symmetrically or with a predictable outcome. Meaning no certainty that the ball remains spherical. You might end up with an egg instead.

    Materials (most anything) behave in much the same manner.

    If we throw a plate of steel in a vice and fly cut one side it's very possible that when we pop it out of the vice it'll bow up like a cat does when being petted. Did we create stress? No, we removed it from one side of the piece which caused a distortion due to the material "stress relieving".

    Barrels, good ones anyway, are "normalized" as part of the manufacturing process. This is nothing more than an attempt to put the steel in a "dead" state so that things like temperature change, machining, etc. doesn't influence the material in the finished state. (Meaning the hole down the middle where the bullet passes)

    A properly normalized barrel shouldn't take on the form of a banana due to fluting. Be that as it may, it's still probably a sound practice to machine conservatively and to use a quality cutter (sharp) with flood coolant to mitigate wild changes in temp. The intent being to avoid further stress relief that could possibly distort the hole down the middle.

    For the record I am no expert on this. I've only fluted 4 barrels in my life. 3 of which were done yesterday. I have however made quite a bit of stuff in a machine shop and the principles are all the same. These were Rock Creek barrels which are cut rifled. Button barrels are supposedly a little more sensitive to fluting operations, but a number of other smiths do it day in/day out with no ill effects. I've avoided doing this kind of work in the past due to lack of proper fixturing, tooling, and the assumed risk. It's one thing to scrap a piece of AL or steel while making something. You cuss a little and then go make another one. The obscenities really fly when you take a $300+ dollar part that can take up to a year to get and ruin it due to a bad number in a program or setup goof.

    One thing I do really like about the cutter geometry I'm using is that the flutes AREN'T razor blades. Few things in a gun shop will slice the piss out of your hand the way a fluted barrel will right after being spun polished. The cutter I chose has a chamfer on each side with a flat bottom. Similar to an Acme thread I guess. The chamfer takes the razor sharp edge away. Nothing earth shattering but kinda cool. -different. . .

    The internet can be a wonderful tool. It can also a great source for disinformation.

    Hope this helped.

    C.
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    Yes, absolutely!

    Thanks for such a comprehensive explanation.
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    I helped a friend flute some of his F-class barrels one weekend at the shop I work at (he's trying to meet the 10kg limit). I saw your setup and thought it looked pretty familiar. It's not a "push button and walk away" setup but I'm not trying to make money off smithing; just killing time at the shop on the weekend. His F-class gun this last weekend grouped about 3.5" overall at 610 yards with his ladder tests. If fluting "finished" bbls after the fact affects accuracy it doesn't affect it much.

    2zi7urd.jpg


    Thanks again, Chad, for sharing your work.
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G-rott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great explanation and a sweet looking setup. </div></div>

    Just one of the things I like about this guy.
    He takes time out of his day to explain things.

    Congratulations on the new ability's of your rifle shop and keep the post coming.

    Oh and by the way the 6CM you built is a hammer
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, absolutely!

    Thanks for such a comprehensive explanation. </div></div>

    Chad,
    That is about the best explanation I've even seen for us less than technical shooters - which I am:) Good stuff - thanks!!
     
    Re: Barrel flutinz!

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G-rott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great explanation and a sweet looking setup. </div></div>

    Just one of the things I like about this guy.
    He takes time out of his day to explain things.

    Congratulations on the new ability's of your rifle shop and keep the post coming.

    Oh and by the way the 6CM you built is a hammer </div></div>

    Chad is good like that, gives me a lot of confidence that he knows what he is doing and is willing to expose himself to questions/criticism without hesitation as he can explain the "why" behind what he does.