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Quality Recce style AR- no major wait?GOT IT- PICs

H

hydro556

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 1, 2007
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STL, home of the Cardinals.
I foolishly sold a Noveske Recce style rifle about a year ago. Almost knew I'd regret it before I sold it.

At any rate, I am looking to replace it now and am wondering what you guys think is the best "precision" 16" 5.56 AR available today, without a major wait.

I want a light, compact carbine that is still competent at extended ranges. That Noveske was a sub MOA shooter and relatively easy to shoot well past 500 yards.

The Noveske has a pretty substantial wait time last I checked. LaRue's Predatar looks nice, but I dont want a pencil barrel, and yes, it has a wait time. LaRue "released" the PredatOBR last night, and it looks like an awesome rig, if a bit heavy. Probably exactly what I would order if I could have it in a couple weeks instead of 6 months.

I could have Jered or George build something that would likely be perfect, but they, like everyone with a great reputation that builds great products, have a big lead time.

I am wondering what else is out there. I dont follow the AR world as closely as many here and am hoping there are some good options, without big lead times, with whom I am not familiar.

So, can you guys recommend anything that will replace an M4 style carbine and still be competent for longer range precision. In the same vein as the Noveske Recce I shouldnt have sold?

This is the Noveske I sold.

Range4-18-10006.jpg


ETA- 3-28-2012

Here's the new one.
2012-03-2808-18-22.jpg

2012-03-2808-18-58.jpg


Yes, the flash really lit up some dust on the glass I can not see with naked eye. My wife would be pissed if she knew I posted.

 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

Check out Bravo Company USA, they have 16" Recce uppers with PRI, Daniel Defense, and Troy handguards in stock. They sell lower receivers also so I'm sure if you gave them a call they could set you up pretty good.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

I have been researching the same, however since I don't have the coin to drop on a Noveske at the moment, I've been eyeing the Bravo company recce uppers. Unfortunately they are out of stock on a lot of them at the moment. I have no hands on experience with them, but in my searching I've heard nothing but good things. Definitely worth a look.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Trigger Monkey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check out Bravo Company USA, they have 16" Recce uppers with PRI, Daniel Defense, and Troy handguards in stock. They sell lower receivers also so I'm sure if you gave them a call they could set you up pretty good. </div></div>

Thanks TM. Just what I am looking to hear. I didnt know Bravo made something like this. Off to their website. Maybe they sell complete rifles with good triggers in the lower.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

I would like to throw High Caliber Sales in there too.

Kevin at high caliber has some awesome mk12 spec'd uppers as well as recon/recce uppers.

Work is done by A.J Brown and as you all know Alan was one of the guys at NSWC in small arms dev and has worked on the development of the MK262 mod0/1 cartridge as well as the mk12 system designed to use it.

Besides Kevin is a great dude to deal with. Check em out: http://www.highcalibersales.com

Probably as close to "issued" as you could get.

 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pupdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to throw High Caliber Sales in there too.

Kevin at high caliber has some awesome mk12 spec'd uppers as well as recon/recce uppers.

Work is done by A.J Brown and as you all know Alan was one of the guys at NSWC in small arms dev and has worked on the development of the MK262 mod0/1 cartridge as well as the mk12 system designed to use it.

Besides Kevin is a great dude to deal with. Check em out High Caliber Sales

Probably as close to "issued" as you could get.

</div></div>

Excellent, checking them out.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

Pupdawg, I checked out the Highcaliber site and it appears their Recce upper, while pricey, is about as close to a Recce as one can get. It also appears that they are very well regarded.

I may have missed it, but I cant determine lead time from their site. May have to call them tomorrow.

Also couldnt tell if they offer complete rifles. Add a quality lower with a good trigger and the price would be right with Noveske, and it looks like it would be every bit the rifle but more "authentic". If I can get one pretty quickly, I may go that route.

If they dont do complete rifles, I may just get a gissiele trigger and put it in a Spikes lower I have and just add the upper. Thanks for the heads up, I wasnt familiar with them.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

Another Vote for HIgh Caliber Sales..... Kevin is awesome!
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

kevin is a great guy and easy to deal with, you should definitely give him a call
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Noveske has a pretty substantial wait time last I checked.</div></div>

This one is in stock

Good luck with your search, them Noveske rifles shoot
wink.gif
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

rainier and riflegear have noveske uppers in stock.

I build my own 'recce' upper w/rainier ultra match barrel. shoots great especially with heavies and varget.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

Are you not wanting to assemble yourself? Because i'm sure you could pick out components and build something very similar if you can't find an upper in stock.

AR's are child's play, if you have the right tools.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pupdawg, I checked out the Highcaliber site and it appears their Recce upper, while pricey, is about as close to a Recce as one can get. It also appears that they are very well regarded.

I may have missed it, but I cant determine lead time from their site. May have to call them tomorrow.

Also couldnt tell if they offer complete rifles. Add a quality lower with a good trigger and the price would be right with Noveske, and it looks like it would be every bit the rifle but more "authentic". If I can get one pretty quickly, I may go that route.

If they dont do complete rifles, I may just get a gissiele trigger and put it in a Spikes lower I have and just add the upper. Thanks for the heads up, I wasnt familiar with them. </div></div>

Yes call Kevin. He's a cool dude.

For some reason his website isn't working for me. dammit.

Thats what I want to do, have him build me a MK12 mod1 upper.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

Website wasnt working for me either, but I found a way in, lol.

I have been speaking with Kevin. Definitely not the cheapest route, but seems like top quality. Really nice gentleman as well.

Will be deciding tonight/this weekend.

Thanks for the tips guys.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pupdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to throw High Caliber Sales in there too.

Kevin at high caliber has some awesome mk12 spec'd uppers as well as recon/recce uppers.

Work is done by A.J Brown and as you all know Alan was one of the guys at NSWC in small arms dev and has worked on the development of the MK262 mod0/1 cartridge as well as the mk12 system designed to use it.

Besides Kevin is a great dude to deal with. Check em out: http://www.highcalibersales.com

Probably as close to "issued" as you could get.

</div></div>

I have pretty much decided this is the route I am going.

Only change is I will likely go with a Blackout FH instead of the Ops Inc collar to save some money and because I dont intend to put an Opc Inc can on.

I have been talking to Kevin and he is a great guy. I have a question that maybe you, or someone here can answer, and I dont want to bug Kevin again. I am having trouble with their website, though it is probably listed there. On the upper receiver, I can only find references to it as being Mil Spec. Which is all it needs to be anyway, but does anyone know what they are using?

I am mostly just curious.

Anyway, it came down to this or Noveske, and I think I am going to go with HCS. Seems they are really putting together a very authentic Recce upper.

I am going to put it on a KAC lower, with Sopmod stock and KAC's 2 stage trigger. I am only going on what I have heard about the trigger, never used one myself. Hope it compares well to the Gieselle I was going to use.

I have never owned a KAC anything, so wanted to give them a try. Anything else I should consider before placing my order with Kevin?
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

Geisselle trigger (SSA-E, National Match) or RRA 2 stage tuned by White Oak. Those are the ones I have and what a lot of people I talk to use. Haven't seen any KAC triggers though so I'm not familiar with them.

Magpul stock w/cam lock. CTR, ACS, etc, they work. If you want SOPMOD look at the B5 @ riflegear.com

Lower receivers to me are either in spec or not in spec. Don't see the point in going for a certain brand unless it has some feature that you really, really want.

my 2c$
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

I havent used the KAC trigger either, but figure there are plenty here who have. I expect it is good to go, but just wanted to hear some opinions.

The Sopmod is just what is on the KAC lower already and I like them just fine. They are light and I have had zero issues with them.

This is my first KAC lower, and I know I am paying a premium, but that is OK on this rig. Looking forward to trying it out, and hoping it lives up to my expectations. I think it will based in what I have read about their products in general.

My only concern is if I will regret not going with a known (to me) quantity in the Gieselle trigger. The others I have had were excellent. Since I want this carbine to be versatile, I want a good trigger that will allow me to shoot it accurately at ranges beyond what I am able to with a standard M4 style carbine.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

There is also Monty of Centurion Arms. He got started doing Mk12 uppers with contract barrels and has expanded. Hasn't gotten into complete rifles yet but he offers rails, barrels, and uppers

http://www.centurionarms.net

edit* ah, looks like he got backlogged like crazy too
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cesiumsponge</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is also Monty of Centurion Arms. He got started doing Mk12 uppers with contract barrels and has expanded. Hasn't gotten into complete rifles yet but he offers rails, barrels, and uppers

http://www.centurionarms.net

edit* ah, looks like he got backlogged like crazy too </div></div>

The Centurion Recon upper appears a lot cheaper than the HCS. But when you add the URXIII rail, a BCG, and a couple other things you get to about the same number. Then, I am not 100% sure what the barrel is.

At any rate, I am pretty sure I am going with HCS. Probably ordering today.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

I am not getting a switch block. Nor am I likely to ever run a can on the Recce.

I just had him throw a brid cage on it, and I will add a brake of some sort later.

Saving for optic now. And mount.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LMT MRP </div></div>

A few months ago I would have agreed. But not now. I wouldn't expect any real reliability out of them ever again. Especially when it comes to accuracy.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tango__Down</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LMT MRP </div></div>

A few months ago I would have agreed. But not now. I wouldn't expect any real reliability out of them ever again. Especially when it comes to accuracy. </div></div>

Not that I was ever considering one, but why?
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

I'd like to hear that as well.

An AR built from the cheapest of components can still shoot well and be reliable enough for the average shooter. Yeah I've seen broken del-tons and stags at carbine shoots but I've seen plenty of them going bang-bang-bang too.

Maybe LMT QC missed one or something?
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd like to hear that as well.

An AR built from the cheapest of components can still shoot well and be reliable enough for the average shooter. Yeah I've seen broken del-tons and stags at carbine shoots but I've seen plenty of them going bang-bang-bang too.

Maybe LMT QC missed one or something? </div></div>

I have to agree. I have had several LMT weapons and parts, and all have been good to go. Have never needed their CS dept, so maybe that is where he had the issue?
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tango__Down</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LMT MRP </div></div>

A few months ago I would have agreed. But not now. I wouldn't expect any real reliability out of them ever again. Especially when it comes to accuracy. </div></div>

Not that I was ever considering one, but why? </div></div>

My signature line pretty much says it all. One lemon after another from lmt. All broke stuff was sent back to them and them replaced it one after another. None of the items I sent back were found to be ok or did not work because of my error. But were all factory screwups. I no longer trust them and they will never see another dime of my money. In fact I'd take a $700 base stag parts gun I built myself to war before I'd pickup and tote anything LMT built.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

I had issues with the CS dept on top of the manufacturing dept. Ryan is good to go and will do everything to help. As for the rest of the operation, much is left to be desired. Main problem is that everything I've bought from lmt was jacked up and had to be sent back and replaced. What a PITA. What company has anyone else bought anything from and had this problem...????

I have several Stags, Bushmasters, RRAs, and several other ARs and only did I have to send back a bushmaster...once...for a crooked FSB. LMT has issues plain and simple.

As for the point of this thread... I would look at Noveske, BCM, MSTN, or LaRue. Buy from someone who cares about their customers and has a solid track record.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

Got it all together, quite quickly. Thanks to Kevin at High Caliber Sales, and Larue Tactical for the quick shipping.

Carbine feels great, just like the Noveske did. Lighter than I thought it would feel. I think I will end up liking the X32mm objective on the scope, should be more forgiving.

Will post a RR after Saturday. Have some BH 77 grain OTM to start with. Then plan to load 77 grain SMK's. Hope to stretch it out to ~650 Saturday.

Edit- Kevin O'neill is a class guy. Glad this project brought me across his path. Very nice gentleman, will be doing more business with in the future for sure.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

Nice rig, your not lacking in the cool department. If it shoots as good as everyone elses HCS your going to be a happy man. I have two KAC triggers one has a 4.5 spring and the other is the adjustable match that I got used it has the 3.5 spring. If you dont like the pull I would suggest getting the 3.5 before you take it out and trade it for a Geissle the spring is 7 dollars. The 3.5 I have is adjusted perfect and is smooth, the other is nice but it took a few hundred rounds to break in.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice rig, your not lacking in the cool department. If it shoots as good as everyone elses HCS your going to be a happy man. I have two KAC triggers one has a 4.5 spring and the other is the adjustable match that I got used it has the 3.5 spring. If you dont like the pull I would suggest getting the 3.5 before you take it out and trade it for a Geissle the spring is 7 dollars. The 3.5 I have is adjusted perfect and is smooth, the other is nice but it took a few hundred rounds to break in. </div></div>

Actually quite impressed with the trigger, and do not feel it gives up anything to the G, at least so far through slow dry fire. The only concern I have is possible durability issues. This is something I have heard from someone who should know, and I trust completely.
Time will tell. I am not going to be putting nearly as many rounds through this one as he did the ones he is referring to though. Uncle Sam doesnt buy my ammo, LOL.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

The old triggers had some problems, I think the new design has fixed the problem. They were the only game in town when the MK12 was introduced, a lot of things have been reworked since that time. I had a RFQ for MK12 parts and the KAC FA match trigger was what was called for. An adjustable match trigger on FA would take a severe beating so it doesnt supprise me what your source said.
 
Re: Quality Recce style AR with no major wait?

Glad it came together so quickly. Rifle looks awesome... Im jealous. haha
 
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