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Range Report 260 123amax VS 140..

Ring

Ring

Rifle Instructor
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 12, 2009
2,323
11
Medina, Ohio
sites.google.com
in getting 3200fps with the 123's, 2800 with the 140's out of a 26" BBL
with those speeds, i cant see using the 140's the drift is the same, the 123's are much flatter out to 1500y

anyone else seeing the same thing?
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

BC wins at distance, both in wind drift and energy on target.

I run 140s as in real world the heavier bullet has less wind drift at distance.
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

I'll take speed for a hunting rifle over high bc.123 Amax is high enough bc for me.Just my 2 cents
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

3200fps, from a 26" 260, with a 123gr A-Max...400fps higher velocity for only 17gr less bullet weight.

What powder are you using and how much pressure are you seeing?
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

That sounds pretty damn fast for the 123s and the 260. I shoot my 123 Lapuas at 2990 to 3000 and with RL17 got to 3050+ but it was damn hot!!
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

3200 sounds REALLY fast as someone else mentioned. I can get them to 2925 from my 22" 6.5 CM and 2775 with the 140 (both are very warm loads though).

Either way, I shoot the 140's. The 123's have a much shorter bearing surface so that also goes into figuring the big boost in speed from them.

The BC is not the advertised .510 though, I got the best results from accurately tracking the atmospheric inputs and using 0.495 for the G1; made for good elevation calls out to 1200yd
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

What powder are you using to get 3200 out of the 123's
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Calling BS on the 3200 with 123s in the 260.
</div></div>

+1

Have run a lot of 260's , and the only time I have seen even 3150 was a buddy who 'smoked' his cases on 1st fire...blew them all...ruined primer pockets... and he was running 4 grs over any book load.
FWIW
YMMV
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

I've seen 3150fps with the 123 A-Max out of my 26" tube with 44.5gr RL17, which showed no pressure in my rifle (unlike W760, which blew a primer). I could see 3200fps as a possibility with a stronger RL17 load and/or moly bullets, but can't help but think it'd be showing substantial pressure signs.
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Calling BS on the 3200 with 123s in the 260.

All things being equal heavier bullets will always do better at longer distances in wind. Real world results show that time and time again. </div></div> I shoot 123gr Scenar's out of my 21" .260, 3046 for where the load was developed, could have gone faster but the accuracy wasn't there so it was backed down to where it is currently at.
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

If you're getting that much speed out of a 123, then there's no reason to shoot the heavier bullet. You'll only be like a 1/2moa more wind at 1500yds. That's some crazy velocity though out of a 26" .260....whatever you're doing, keep doing it!
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">R-19, 48gr is my load
26" gun, nitrided bbl

no PSI signs on the brass


zero @ 200y,
22moa @ 1k
1000ft ASL </div></div>
hmmm ...
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gvanhyning</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">R-19, 48gr is my load
26" gun, nitrided bbl

no PSI signs on the brass


zero @ 200y,
22moa @ 1k
1000ft ASL </div></div>
hmmm ... </div></div>

at thunder valley...
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

I'll have to try that load, I am using 4064 and getting 3100 fps out of a 26" barrel. Acuraccy is not quite as good as the 142's so far.

What twist do you have? Mine is an 8 twist.
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..


Mike, because you do not know too many characteristics about the poster's gun, brass, bullet coating, throat, lands, seating depth, barrel length, bolt face, altitude, ambient temperature you cannot intelligently call him a liar. And if he were being disingenuous, who cares?

In an Lr308 with a 25" 6.5x47L chambered Krieger and RL17, 123 Scenar I achieved 3100 with no evidence on the case of excessive pressure. And it was an accurate load.

Chronographs lie but why not trust another shooter's claim? Those of us who doubt others are ourselves doubtful, generally.
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

First BC is affected by velocity, so for those that think running the heaviest bullet regardless of fps ... are NOT utilizing the High BC and a lighter faster bullet would actually be better. BC and velocity define bullet performance not weight.

I cant speak for 260 i dont shoot one, its a piss poor case design like all 308 family
My x47 slings 123gr weight bullets
@ 3023fps from a 20" barrel

Given extra case cap of 260 and longer barrel thats very plausible, just because you cant fig out how its done, dont mean others cant.
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

Mike, because you do not know too many characteristics about the poster's gun, brass, bullet coating, throat, lands, seating depth, barrel length, bolt face, altitude, ambient temperature you cannot intelligently call him a liar.
<span style="color: #3333FF">
The problem, Casey, is his "one off" rifle is neither the norm or repeatable. Don't you think if it was a common configuration for a tactical rifle EVERYONE would be shooting it? The next question is it even physically possible due to case capacity, etc.?

If I say my Porsche 911 went 300,000 miles with only oil changes are you going to believe me? Do you believe that is normal or repeatable in every 911? Just because it may happen once does not mean it's possible to repeat, or worthwhile information to disseminate?</span>

And if he were being disingenuous, who cares?
<span style="color: #3333FF">
I do. Because if he's wrong(and I'm convinced he is) then someone trying to learn the truth is going go get incorrect information and there is a potential for someone getting hurt.
</span>

In an Lr308 with a 25" 6.5x47L chambered Krieger and RL17, 123 Scenar I achieved 3100 with no evidence on the case of excessive pressure. And it was an accurate load.

<span style="color: #3333FF">3100 is not 3200.</span>

Chronographs lie but why not trust another shooter's claim? Those of us who doubt others are ourselves doubtful, generally.
<span style="color: #3333FF">
Why not trust another shooter's claim? So we're supposed to throw logic, or established information or information gathered from experience to the side just because a shooter "said so"? And BTW, I'm not even going to address your insult other than If would like to bring my integrity into question, we can discuss it face to face.</span>
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

First BC is affected by velocity, so for those that think running the heaviest bullet regardless of fps ... are NOT utilizing the High BC and a lighter faster bullet would actually be better. BC and velocity define bullet performance not weight.
<span style="color: #3333FF">
A couple of things. First, there is a universal acceptance that a shooter is going to utilize the fastest, yet safest accuracy node when shooting a given bullet. Therefore, when one makes the statement that the heavier bullet will win out, then of course velocity expectations are already established. You would load a 6.5 for 2500 fps when 2800+ is available with the same accuracy would you? Second, weight IS an integral part of the BC equation so ipso-facto, weight does equate to better BC.</span>

Given extra case cap of 260 and longer barrel thats very plausible, just because you cant fig out how its done, dont mean others cant.

<span style="color: #3333FF">How long of a barrel? Are we crossing into that F-class/BR bullshit that has no place in the tactical shooting community? So everyone who's tried and failed doesn't know anything about load development? I guess ridiculous claims is now becoming the norm here and we can throw learned information to the wind.
</span>
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Mike, because you do not know too many characteristics about the poster's gun, brass, bullet coating, throat, lands, seating depth, barrel length, bolt face, altitude, ambient temperature you cannot intelligently call him a liar. And if he were being disingenuous, who cares?
Chronographs lie but why not trust another shooter's claim? Those of us who doubt others are ourselves doubtful, generally.
</div></div>

Well said and no BS.
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Mike, because you do not know too many characteristics about the poster's gun, brass, bullet coating, throat, lands, seating depth, barrel length, bolt face, altitude, ambient temperature you cannot intelligently call him a liar. And if he were being disingenuous, who cares?
Chronographs lie but why not trust another shooter's claim? Those of us who doubt others are ourselves doubtful, generally.
</div></div>

Well said and no BS.</div></div>

Not well said and complete BS. Build three rifles that can do that and then come talk to me.
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

And just to give an example and address it from the logical view point.

For years F-class shooters have been shooting the 6.5x284 with the 142smk bullets. Their upper end accuracy node is around 3200 +/-.

Now we're supposed to believe the claim that a 260 with significantly less case capacity is doing the same thing? So I guess for years F-Class shooters were wasting their time with the 6.5x284 wildcat when the 260 was more than capable? Or is it F-class shooters don't know what they are doing either?
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

Short bbl life I'm thinking ?
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Calling BS on the 3200 with 123s in the 260.

All things being equal heavier bullets will always do better at longer distances in wind. Real world results show that time and time again. </div></div>

+1 enough said
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dwt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Short bbl life I'm thinking ? </div></div>

Yep, I got 3250 rounds down my 260 barrel, I don't see a 260 thumping 123 or 130 going that long.
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">fyi, nitrided barrels...

</div></div>

Bring it to a major match and show us you roughly 6.6 mil to 1K 260.
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

TVP sniper match this month...

but im using 143smk with 42.8g h4350 @ 2938 fps confirmed to 800y

saving the amax for groundhogs
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

Well, I gotta give you *some* credit because you're running a Savage in a McRee stock...
wink.gif


I have occasionally heard of folks with nitrided barrels getting higher MVs than usual... but I will comment that a few years back I used to shoot NRA XTC with a 6.5-08 (essentially .260 Rem throated long), and spent quite a bit of time with Lapua 123 Scenars and RE-19. I always seemed to hit a wall just past 3150fps - even getting that high just killed primer pockets (Winchester .308 brass). And that was with a 30" Pac-Nor barrel. Going faster with a shorter barrel simply because it was nitrided... wow.
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TVP sniper match this month...

but im using 143smk with 42.8g h4350 @ 2938 fps confirmed to 800y

saving the amax for groundhogs </div></div>

There is no way a 260 is going to push a 142 at those speeds!
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

Now that... I might back him on. Same 6.5-08, back when... I started tinkering with H4350 (default load that all the HMs used around here then was 38.0gn Varget, anything else was mildy heretical) and started getting just over 2900fps. I got a little worried and backed off, as 'everyone else' I knew was getting 2750-2800, and considered that plenty. Again, that was with a 30" tube though...
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

Depending on the barrel. Some barrels are faster than others (same barrel manufacturer,twist and length.) Shooting the moly coated bullets does help. Bare bullets does raise the pressure.
The heavies usually get around 2750 to 2850 fps. Moly might get you some gain. The 123s with moly bullets shoot above 3000 mark if loaded hot. The 139s and 142s I doubt it.
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

Even at 2875 fps a 140 bullet with a high BC does pretty well at the range.

I've seen a few guys say they were getting 2900 out of 25 inch barrels...pretty fast.
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TVP sniper match this month...

but im using 143smk with 42.8g h4350 @ 2938 fps confirmed to 800y

saving the amax for groundhogs </div></div>

There is no way a 260 is going to push a 142 at those speeds!</div></div>

dont know what to tell u, but chked it on 2 cronos... 26" shilled


also even with the 123 at a more normal speeds it still has better drift over the 140smk

 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

Something to consider in bullet choice. The berger 130 vld has a .552 g1. If you can drive it to 3k it has very good ballistics, even when compared to the heavies. This translates into 4.9mils at 800 and 6.0mils at 900. This dope was verified at a da of 450. This load is from a 22.5" barrel and could be pushed to at least 3050. As this load is right in the middle of a accuracy node I saw no reason to go faster. Also this is using h4350.
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rthur</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Something to consider in bullet choice. The berger 130 vld has a .552 g1. If you can drive it to 3k it has very good ballistics, even when compared to the heavies. This translates into 4.9mils at 800 and 6.0mils at 900. This dope was verified at a da of 450. This load is from a 22.5" barrel and could be pushed to at least 3050. As this load is right in the middle of a accuracy node I saw no reason to go faster. Also this is using h4350. </div></div>

Care to share the charge weight?

I've got to run 44.5gr H4350 to get near 3000fps with the 130 VLD, from a 26" barrel no less.

43.5gr RL17 gets me above 3000fps easily.
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

Yep,
rem brass
h4350 @ 45.9gr
wolf lr
col 2.880
This is a bartlein barrel with a defiance action with a tac/match reamer.
I have also loaded this in nosler brass and it is about 10fps faster on average.

Something I may add this barrel may be unusually fast for its length, these velocities have been checked on a oehler many times.
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

When I ran 130 Berger VLD's I ran them at 2,950 fps, easy load, no pressure.

I have a load with 139's in RP hulls that'll run 2,890 and shoot in a dot, again, no pressure except on Saturdays if it's raining in Mingus TX.

While 3,200 fps in a 260 seems high and I‘d have to see it, with RL19 it's not completely unbelievable. I’ve seen the 260 defy reason and conventional wisdom.

I've seen 165's @ 3,500 fps from a 300 Jarrett and 40's at 4,500 from a 22-250. Neither had pressure issues and both shot in dots. Sometimes, good shit happens without a reason.
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rthur</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep,
rem brass
h4350 @ 45.9gr
wolf lr
col 2.880
This is a bartlein barrel with a defiance action with a tac/match reamer.</div></div>

Okay, 3.5" less barrel and 1.4gr more powder to match velocities, I don't feel so bad now...LOL
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

260 rem with h4350 with 43gr i ran 130 accubonds for hunting at 2830 with excellent accuracy and I'm working on some 140 amax h4350 42.2gr at 2760 and shot 1/2 moa at 300. i would really like to try the 130 vld's i have used them in every gun of mine so far except the 260 i probably better try them
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

How hot are the 123's the 140's seem about right. it's hard to beat good BC's at distance.
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

Ring: What Chrony are you using to measure velocity? What is your OAL with the 123's?
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There is no way a 260 is going to push a 142 at those speeds!</div></div>
I got 2918 as an average of 5 rds with a high of 2930. this is a 26in barrel stock savage LRP and a full 44.5gr of H4350
 
Re: 260 123amax VS 140..

Forget the crono's and shoot the number's,200yr to 1000 or whatever and see what the moa's or mil's are at the distance's compare the chart and you will see how fast you are in real world ? Works every time , crono's are good to get some beginer's info , then shoot the number's , most times , no lying there .
 
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