I'm reading many comments from other sources stating to FL size all the time. This is true for certain types of actions, but for bolt guns I would urge people to consider neck sizing. Are there many people that are taking advantage of neck sizing for bolt guns???
- Thread starter boltgunluvr
- Start date
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
I don't shoot enough to be able to compare FL sizing vs neck sizing.
But i do think in certain instances they both have their advantages.
obviously for semi autos FL all the time
I do think neck sizing for belted mags can help extend brass life
But other than that i don't know what to believe.
I neck size for a few of my rifles, and FL after about the 4th or 5th use of the brass.
Neck sizing is just quick and easy to me.
I don't know if one is more accurate than the other. I would think FL sizing would be more accurate especially if you have good dies as you are uniforming each case to the same specs and limiting variables, at least that is how i see it.
Sure once fired brass is fire formed to your chamber, but you are also assuming that each case behaved the exact same when fired as far as its position in the chamber, its expansion and rebound ect... and i just don't think that is the case all the time.
just my opinion
I don't shoot enough to be able to compare FL sizing vs neck sizing.
But i do think in certain instances they both have their advantages.
obviously for semi autos FL all the time
I do think neck sizing for belted mags can help extend brass life
But other than that i don't know what to believe.
I neck size for a few of my rifles, and FL after about the 4th or 5th use of the brass.
Neck sizing is just quick and easy to me.
I don't know if one is more accurate than the other. I would think FL sizing would be more accurate especially if you have good dies as you are uniforming each case to the same specs and limiting variables, at least that is how i see it.
Sure once fired brass is fire formed to your chamber, but you are also assuming that each case behaved the exact same when fired as far as its position in the chamber, its expansion and rebound ect... and i just don't think that is the case all the time.
just my opinion
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
I need to worry about other things, so my ammo must chamber every time, there is no time saving, no increase in brass life, no accuracy improvement from NS only, I tried it, it works great until your at a match and your ammo won't chamber, any benefit NS only people say I have proven wrong or equaled/exceeded on the range with FL sized brass.
I need to worry about other things, so my ammo must chamber every time, there is no time saving, no increase in brass life, no accuracy improvement from NS only, I tried it, it works great until your at a match and your ammo won't chamber, any benefit NS only people say I have proven wrong or equaled/exceeded on the range with FL sized brass.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
I FL size every 4-5 times to avoid this situation. And I don't load "hot" which helps also.
I FL size every 4-5 times to avoid this situation. And I don't load "hot" which helps also.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SubXerO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't shoot enough to be able to compare FL sizing vs neck sizing.
But i do think in certain instances they both have their advantages.
obviously for semi autos FL all the time
I do think neck sizing for belted mags can help extend brass life
But other than that i don't know what to believe.
I neck size for a few of my rifles, and FL after about the 4th or 5th use of the brass.
Neck sizing is just quick and easy to me.
I don't know if one is more accurate than the other. I would think FL sizing would be more accurate especially if you have good dies as you are uniforming each case to the same specs and limiting variables, at least that is how i see it.
Sure once fired brass is fire formed to your chamber, but you are also assuming that each case behaved the exact same when fired as far as its position in the chamber, its expansion and rebound ect... and i just don't think that is the case all the time.
just my opinion </div></div>
I have found that neck sized rounds have improved accuracy. I FL size about every 4th or 5th also.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SubXerO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't shoot enough to be able to compare FL sizing vs neck sizing.
But i do think in certain instances they both have their advantages.
obviously for semi autos FL all the time
I do think neck sizing for belted mags can help extend brass life
But other than that i don't know what to believe.
I neck size for a few of my rifles, and FL after about the 4th or 5th use of the brass.
Neck sizing is just quick and easy to me.
I don't know if one is more accurate than the other. I would think FL sizing would be more accurate especially if you have good dies as you are uniforming each case to the same specs and limiting variables, at least that is how i see it.
Sure once fired brass is fire formed to your chamber, but you are also assuming that each case behaved the exact same when fired as far as its position in the chamber, its expansion and rebound ect... and i just don't think that is the case all the time.
just my opinion </div></div>
I have found that neck sized rounds have improved accuracy. I FL size about every 4th or 5th also.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
Neck sizing used in conjuction with a body die goes a little way in bridging the gap between the two. However with a good set of FL dies I bet most won't know the difference with regards to accuracy, I certainly don't. I've not seen any evidence to say that FL sizing adversely effects case life either.
Neck sizing used in conjuction with a body die goes a little way in bridging the gap between the two. However with a good set of FL dies I bet most won't know the difference with regards to accuracy, I certainly don't. I've not seen any evidence to say that FL sizing adversely effects case life either.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
I think what gives Full Length Sizing a bad rap is when people use a regular (non bushing) Sizing die WITH an expander. So the brass is sized really small and then expanded with the expander button. This works the brass more than necessary.
HOWEVER if you Full Length size with a Bushing Die using the correct bushing size and remove the expander, the brass is only sized a small amount and the shoulder is pushed back every time (again a small amount) to the Correct depth. Each reloading session is consistant.
I believe this is a better process than Neck Sizing.
I think what gives Full Length Sizing a bad rap is when people use a regular (non bushing) Sizing die WITH an expander. So the brass is sized really small and then expanded with the expander button. This works the brass more than necessary.
HOWEVER if you Full Length size with a Bushing Die using the correct bushing size and remove the expander, the brass is only sized a small amount and the shoulder is pushed back every time (again a small amount) to the Correct depth. Each reloading session is consistant.
I believe this is a better process than Neck Sizing.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
what brand of FL sizer is best?
what brand of FL sizer is best?
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
Well, I was a religious neck sizer. I felt it really improved my accuracy. I then got a wild hair and got a new barrel for my gun and I am now stuck with about 300 rounds of ammo necked for my old factory remmy barrel. Live and learn, I am now fl sizing to avoid this situation.
Well, I was a religious neck sizer. I felt it really improved my accuracy. I then got a wild hair and got a new barrel for my gun and I am now stuck with about 300 rounds of ammo necked for my old factory remmy barrel. Live and learn, I am now fl sizing to avoid this situation.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
I have a lot of very accurate rifles ...My 6mbr being the most accurate. When I do my part it will shoot in the 0.1's. I full length size even with that rifle.
I have never seen a rifle shoot more accurately with neck sizing only...Not once. If you seen an improvement neck sizing you are doing something wrong with your FL die.
When neck sizing and the cases get tight too tight in the chamber expect accuracy to fall off.
I have a lot of very accurate rifles ...My 6mbr being the most accurate. When I do my part it will shoot in the 0.1's. I full length size even with that rifle.
I have never seen a rifle shoot more accurately with neck sizing only...Not once. If you seen an improvement neck sizing you are doing something wrong with your FL die.
When neck sizing and the cases get tight too tight in the chamber expect accuracy to fall off.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
Since 100% reliability is more important than an addition tenth or two of accuracy, I FL resize everytime. BUT I do adjust my FL die to resize only as much as I have too and no more (that helps my case life).
Since 100% reliability is more important than an addition tenth or two of accuracy, I FL resize everytime. BUT I do adjust my FL die to resize only as much as I have too and no more (that helps my case life).
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MNS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what brand of FL sizer is best?</div></div>
Go with Redding or Forster.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MNS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what brand of FL sizer is best?</div></div>
Go with Redding or Forster.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
Full length size, reliability trumps all.
Full length size, reliability trumps all.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
On what grounds do you urge neck sizing? I have shot for many years and handloaded for as long as I have owned a centerfire rifle, 30+ years now. I can tell you in no instance has neck sizing been anything besides a headache. I can tell you that neck sizing a belted magnum is a good way to ensure you experience the joys of opening a bolt with a hammer, even with the magical Lee collet die. I have seen many failures to chamber on the firing line in a match. 99% can be attributed to neck sizing, the other 1% can be attributed to a bad piece of brass.
If you know how to properly set up a FL die, and properly anneal cases, there is no reason to ever own a neck die.
The biggest reason most people will never see any accuracy advantage in neck sizing over FL sizing is that none exists.
On what grounds do you urge neck sizing? I have shot for many years and handloaded for as long as I have owned a centerfire rifle, 30+ years now. I can tell you in no instance has neck sizing been anything besides a headache. I can tell you that neck sizing a belted magnum is a good way to ensure you experience the joys of opening a bolt with a hammer, even with the magical Lee collet die. I have seen many failures to chamber on the firing line in a match. 99% can be attributed to neck sizing, the other 1% can be attributed to a bad piece of brass.
If you know how to properly set up a FL die, and properly anneal cases, there is no reason to ever own a neck die.
The biggest reason most people will never see any accuracy advantage in neck sizing over FL sizing is that none exists.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bward</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MNS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what brand of FL sizer is best?</div></div>
Go with Redding or Forster. </div></div>
Agreed, both are excellent and will give great results.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bward</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MNS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what brand of FL sizer is best?</div></div>
Go with Redding or Forster. </div></div>
Agreed, both are excellent and will give great results.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On what grounds do you urge neck sizing? I have shot for many years and handloaded for as long as I have owned a centerfire rifle, 30+ years now. I can tell you in no instance has neck sizing been anything besides a headache. I can tell you that neck sizing a belted magnum is a good way to ensure you experience the joys of opening a bolt with a hammer, even with the magical Lee collet die. I have seen many failures to chamber on the firing line in a match. 99% can be attributed to neck sizing, the other 1% can be attributed to a bad piece of brass.
If you know how to properly set up a FL die, and properly anneal cases, there is no reason to ever own a neck die.
The biggest reason most people will never see any accuracy advantage in neck sizing over FL sizing is that none exists. </div></div>
if people are dumb enough to bring ammo to a match that doesn't chamber in their gun, then i think that gives you and idea of how meticulous they are with their handloading..... and the answer is not at all.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On what grounds do you urge neck sizing? I have shot for many years and handloaded for as long as I have owned a centerfire rifle, 30+ years now. I can tell you in no instance has neck sizing been anything besides a headache. I can tell you that neck sizing a belted magnum is a good way to ensure you experience the joys of opening a bolt with a hammer, even with the magical Lee collet die. I have seen many failures to chamber on the firing line in a match. 99% can be attributed to neck sizing, the other 1% can be attributed to a bad piece of brass.
If you know how to properly set up a FL die, and properly anneal cases, there is no reason to ever own a neck die.
The biggest reason most people will never see any accuracy advantage in neck sizing over FL sizing is that none exists. </div></div>
if people are dumb enough to bring ammo to a match that doesn't chamber in their gun, then i think that gives you and idea of how meticulous they are with their handloading..... and the answer is not at all.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
I neck size with a collet die. I find it is easier than messing with lube. No problems with reliability. Have not noticed any accuracy change at all. The only benefit I currently see is ease of use.
I think you're going to get the same performance either way.
As to having neck sized brass that fits an old rifle, come on, really? Really? You should have a way to size the body. If you owned only a neck die and no body or FLS die, it is your fault for not preparing. Just get a body die for all of $20 and resize your brass, fire in the new rifle, and neck size from there. Not hard.
Like SubXerO said, if you bring ammo to a match that doesn't chamber, you screwed up. Don't blame the tool for the users incompetence. ID10T user errors aren't just for computers. Trust me, I know, I'm the only one I know of who forgot to lube a case (used to neck sizing for the bolt gun) stuck it in the die, finally pulled it out and promptly inserted another lube free case into the die.
When you screw up, <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">YOU</span></span> screw up.
I neck size with a collet die. I find it is easier than messing with lube. No problems with reliability. Have not noticed any accuracy change at all. The only benefit I currently see is ease of use.
I think you're going to get the same performance either way.
As to having neck sized brass that fits an old rifle, come on, really? Really? You should have a way to size the body. If you owned only a neck die and no body or FLS die, it is your fault for not preparing. Just get a body die for all of $20 and resize your brass, fire in the new rifle, and neck size from there. Not hard.
Like SubXerO said, if you bring ammo to a match that doesn't chamber, you screwed up. Don't blame the tool for the users incompetence. ID10T user errors aren't just for computers. Trust me, I know, I'm the only one I know of who forgot to lube a case (used to neck sizing for the bolt gun) stuck it in the die, finally pulled it out and promptly inserted another lube free case into the die.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SubXerO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
if people are dumb enough to bring ammo to a match that doesn't chamber in their gun, then i think that gives you and idea of how meticulous they are with their handloading..... and the answer is not at all. </div></div>
Hmmm. No I think that most of these people I refer to are stuck in the 60's doing things the way they did back in the hayday of the benchrest game. Most of the guys that I have seen this happen to are very meticulous, not so meticulous that they chamber every round in a pistol or rifle that wears a 6oz trigger, before match day. Did I mention that I have heard guys lament,"THat round looks fine on the headspace guage". I have seen it happen to the best of the neck sizers.
Neck sizers often also get the idea they do not need to anneal their brass because they aren't working the brass nearly as much.
Neck sizing IS quick and easy and that is why I suspect that so many people opt for it over actually learning to properly set up a FL die. Personally I always thought quick and easy was better suited to cleaning toilet bowls, or baking cakes, or shopping by mail, not reloading match grade ammo.
I have tried both sides of the coin. I have never seen any advantage to neck sizing over FL, not one single entry in the pro column. Maybe I am doing it wrong.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SubXerO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
if people are dumb enough to bring ammo to a match that doesn't chamber in their gun, then i think that gives you and idea of how meticulous they are with their handloading..... and the answer is not at all. </div></div>
Hmmm. No I think that most of these people I refer to are stuck in the 60's doing things the way they did back in the hayday of the benchrest game. Most of the guys that I have seen this happen to are very meticulous, not so meticulous that they chamber every round in a pistol or rifle that wears a 6oz trigger, before match day. Did I mention that I have heard guys lament,"THat round looks fine on the headspace guage". I have seen it happen to the best of the neck sizers.
Neck sizers often also get the idea they do not need to anneal their brass because they aren't working the brass nearly as much.
Neck sizing IS quick and easy and that is why I suspect that so many people opt for it over actually learning to properly set up a FL die. Personally I always thought quick and easy was better suited to cleaning toilet bowls, or baking cakes, or shopping by mail, not reloading match grade ammo.
I have tried both sides of the coin. I have never seen any advantage to neck sizing over FL, not one single entry in the pro column. Maybe I am doing it wrong.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
Interesting thread. I have done both and had no issues. However, i have talked to Sarver in length about this and he full length resizes all the time. His thought is the brass is the same everytime. Neck sizing only the shoulder is constantly changing. He even talked about how to chamber the resized brass in a bolt gun to make sure the head space was right.
I kind of shied away from full length resizing everytime as I only have a Lee full length die and I believe it overworks the brass. I think running a bushing die would be better without the expander ball. I have had great luck with the Lee collet die as far as keeping bullet runout to a minumum.
Just to see how it shot, I tool some of my older brass and setup the FL die so the bolt, without the firing pin assembly, would drop with the case chambered. I then trimmed and champhered the cases, turned the necks and put them through the collet die. Let's just say it shot very well, so I may have just become a full length resize always convert.
I am switching the rifle from a 308 to a 260 in about 5-6 months, so this will influence what dies I get and my reloading process.
Interesting thread. I have done both and had no issues. However, i have talked to Sarver in length about this and he full length resizes all the time. His thought is the brass is the same everytime. Neck sizing only the shoulder is constantly changing. He even talked about how to chamber the resized brass in a bolt gun to make sure the head space was right.
I kind of shied away from full length resizing everytime as I only have a Lee full length die and I believe it overworks the brass. I think running a bushing die would be better without the expander ball. I have had great luck with the Lee collet die as far as keeping bullet runout to a minumum.
Just to see how it shot, I tool some of my older brass and setup the FL die so the bolt, without the firing pin assembly, would drop with the case chambered. I then trimmed and champhered the cases, turned the necks and put them through the collet die. Let's just say it shot very well, so I may have just become a full length resize always convert.
I am switching the rifle from a 308 to a 260 in about 5-6 months, so this will influence what dies I get and my reloading process.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
Just wanted to add, I am contemplating body sizing and then neck sizing just to see what that feels like running through my rifle. Doubt anything important will come of it.
Just wanted to add, I am contemplating body sizing and then neck sizing just to see what that feels like running through my rifle. Doubt anything important will come of it.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
I am a NO sizer most of the time.
I have heard that FL sizers have some small accuracy gain over NO sizing regimens. However, I make ammo that shoots 0.35" 5-shot grups from a factory rifle, so whatever the accuracy gain is is it only useful in competition.
I NO size because of brass life, I get 30+ reload cycles on brass shooting a stiff load of 47.8 gr Varget pushing 155 Scenars with WIN cases.
I have also been successful with NO sizing my AR15 loads--much to the contray of stories around the net that indiate you can NO size for a semi. You can, you just HAVE to measure the shoulder position before deciding to NO size of to FL or body size the cases.
I am a NO sizer most of the time.
I have heard that FL sizers have some small accuracy gain over NO sizing regimens. However, I make ammo that shoots 0.35" 5-shot grups from a factory rifle, so whatever the accuracy gain is is it only useful in competition.
I NO size because of brass life, I get 30+ reload cycles on brass shooting a stiff load of 47.8 gr Varget pushing 155 Scenars with WIN cases.
I have also been successful with NO sizing my AR15 loads--much to the contray of stories around the net that indiate you can NO size for a semi. You can, you just HAVE to measure the shoulder position before deciding to NO size of to FL or body size the cases.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SubXerO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
if people are dumb enough to bring ammo to a match that doesn't chamber in their gun, then i think that gives you and idea of how meticulous they are with their handloading..... and the answer is not at all. </div></div>
Hmmm. No I think that most of these people I refer to are stuck in the 60's doing things the way they did back in the hayday of the benchrest game. Most of the guys that I have seen this happen to are very meticulous, not so meticulous that they chamber every round in a pistol or rifle that wears a 6oz trigger, before match day. Did I mention that I have heard guys lament,"THat round looks fine on the headspace guage". I have seen it happen to the best of the neck sizers.
Neck sizers often also get the idea they do not need to anneal their brass because they aren't working the brass nearly as much.
Neck sizing IS quick and easy and that is why I suspect that so many people opt for it over actually learning to properly set up a FL die. Personally I always thought quick and easy was better suited to cleaning toilet bowls, or baking cakes, or shopping by mail, not reloading match grade ammo.
I have tried both sides of the coin. I have never seen any advantage to neck sizing over FL, not one single entry in the pro column. Maybe I am doing it wrong. </div></div>
who cares what the trigger is set to, if you are checking fully loaded live ammo anywhere but the range with the firing pin in you are again not so bright.
just like another poster said, if your ammo is not chamber it is something you messed up.
It comes with both FL and NS brass.
How many threads are there, "My FL sized reloads chamber slightly tight, or not at all" because they don't screw the die down tight enough.
it goes both ways.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: armorpl8chikn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SubXerO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
if people are dumb enough to bring ammo to a match that doesn't chamber in their gun, then i think that gives you and idea of how meticulous they are with their handloading..... and the answer is not at all. </div></div>
Hmmm. No I think that most of these people I refer to are stuck in the 60's doing things the way they did back in the hayday of the benchrest game. Most of the guys that I have seen this happen to are very meticulous, not so meticulous that they chamber every round in a pistol or rifle that wears a 6oz trigger, before match day. Did I mention that I have heard guys lament,"THat round looks fine on the headspace guage". I have seen it happen to the best of the neck sizers.
Neck sizers often also get the idea they do not need to anneal their brass because they aren't working the brass nearly as much.
Neck sizing IS quick and easy and that is why I suspect that so many people opt for it over actually learning to properly set up a FL die. Personally I always thought quick and easy was better suited to cleaning toilet bowls, or baking cakes, or shopping by mail, not reloading match grade ammo.
I have tried both sides of the coin. I have never seen any advantage to neck sizing over FL, not one single entry in the pro column. Maybe I am doing it wrong. </div></div>
who cares what the trigger is set to, if you are checking fully loaded live ammo anywhere but the range with the firing pin in you are again not so bright.
just like another poster said, if your ammo is not chamber it is something you messed up.
It comes with both FL and NS brass.
How many threads are there, "My FL sized reloads chamber slightly tight, or not at all" because they don't screw the die down tight enough.
it goes both ways.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am a NO sizer most of the time.
I have heard that FL sizers have some small accuracy gain over NO sizing regimens. However, I make ammo that shoots 0.35" 5-shot grups from a factory rifle, so whatever the accuracy gain is is it only useful in competition.
<span style="color: #990000">I NO size because of brass life, I get 30+ reload cycles on brass shooting a stiff load of 47.8 gr Varget pushing 155 Scenars with WIN cases. </span>
I have also been successful with NO sizing my AR15 loads--much to the contray of stories around the net that indiate you can NO size for a semi. You can, you just HAVE to measure the shoulder position before deciding to NO size of to FL or body size the cases. </div></div>
Mitch please explain to me how you manage this with Winchester cases. I can almost believe that feat being done with Lapua brass, but I lose primer pocket tightness with Win 223 cases at about 7 firings in my custom pistol, and at about 10-12 firings they are too loose for my taste. This all with a load that is 1 grain less than max but showing no pressure signs. I have heard this before and want to know how the NO dies extend primer pocket life. I have for the most part exclusively loaded with FL dies. I have made brief excursions to neck sizing with a few cartridges that I got deals on deluxe dies sets over the years. Without a doubt the single limiting factor in all my reloading is loose primer pockets. For the record I am not a speed freak and do not push my brass.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am a NO sizer most of the time.
I have heard that FL sizers have some small accuracy gain over NO sizing regimens. However, I make ammo that shoots 0.35" 5-shot grups from a factory rifle, so whatever the accuracy gain is is it only useful in competition.
<span style="color: #990000">I NO size because of brass life, I get 30+ reload cycles on brass shooting a stiff load of 47.8 gr Varget pushing 155 Scenars with WIN cases. </span>
I have also been successful with NO sizing my AR15 loads--much to the contray of stories around the net that indiate you can NO size for a semi. You can, you just HAVE to measure the shoulder position before deciding to NO size of to FL or body size the cases. </div></div>
Mitch please explain to me how you manage this with Winchester cases. I can almost believe that feat being done with Lapua brass, but I lose primer pocket tightness with Win 223 cases at about 7 firings in my custom pistol, and at about 10-12 firings they are too loose for my taste. This all with a load that is 1 grain less than max but showing no pressure signs. I have heard this before and want to know how the NO dies extend primer pocket life. I have for the most part exclusively loaded with FL dies. I have made brief excursions to neck sizing with a few cartridges that I got deals on deluxe dies sets over the years. Without a doubt the single limiting factor in all my reloading is loose primer pockets. For the record I am not a speed freak and do not push my brass.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
Interesting conversation.I have read this thread with great interest as I have just recently ventured into match grade .308 reloading, after having have been reloading pistol rounds since 1977. I just purchased a 3-die set of Redding Type S Competition dies and thought I had this whole neck sizing vs FL sizing thing down. I am going to load for a SSG PII bolt gun and an Armalite AR10(T), so now I am wondering if I should grab a Redding Type S FL sizing die as well just to have in my reloading "tool box". I guess my point is that I am realizing that we all have to develop our process via OJT, taking into consideration all of the opinions and experiences of others.
Now if I can just decide whether to use a large or small expanding ball, or none at all!
Interesting conversation.I have read this thread with great interest as I have just recently ventured into match grade .308 reloading, after having have been reloading pistol rounds since 1977. I just purchased a 3-die set of Redding Type S Competition dies and thought I had this whole neck sizing vs FL sizing thing down. I am going to load for a SSG PII bolt gun and an Armalite AR10(T), so now I am wondering if I should grab a Redding Type S FL sizing die as well just to have in my reloading "tool box". I guess my point is that I am realizing that we all have to develop our process via OJT, taking into consideration all of the opinions and experiences of others.
Now if I can just decide whether to use a large or small expanding ball, or none at all!
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
Jager, if you are loading for a gas gun - FULL LENGTH SIZE your brass.
Jager, if you are loading for a gas gun - FULL LENGTH SIZE your brass.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
This is a situation where one "size" does not fit all, and there are reasons for neck sizing, partial full size, bushing dies, etc and it doesn't help to pronounce one method or another as suitable for everybody without knowing what discipline these people might be engaged in. Or, what type of firearm is being used, one of the first things I want to know when the question comes up.....WHAT'S BEST. And, for some folks, it doesn't matter, until they can no longer chamber a cartridge.
There are people that bust caps week after week at targets and don't know the difference between one load, one lot or one brand of ammo and will never appreciate the distinction while they play with seating depth. Okay, I'm exaggerating, but my point is, full length or neck sizing both have advantages but it's hard to generalize and therefore, it's a hard question to answer. Everybody wants a simple answer. BB
This is a situation where one "size" does not fit all, and there are reasons for neck sizing, partial full size, bushing dies, etc and it doesn't help to pronounce one method or another as suitable for everybody without knowing what discipline these people might be engaged in. Or, what type of firearm is being used, one of the first things I want to know when the question comes up.....WHAT'S BEST. And, for some folks, it doesn't matter, until they can no longer chamber a cartridge.
There are people that bust caps week after week at targets and don't know the difference between one load, one lot or one brand of ammo and will never appreciate the distinction while they play with seating depth. Okay, I'm exaggerating, but my point is, full length or neck sizing both have advantages but it's hard to generalize and therefore, it's a hard question to answer. Everybody wants a simple answer. BB
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
I have both types of sizing die for my bolt 308, but I usually neck size only using an RCBS bushing die. This is because its faster and I don't need lube.
According to the instructions that came with the die, neck sizing only works the brass less and uses the powder more efficiently near max loads. This is because you are not using some of your powder charge to expand the brass out to the chamber while firing.
I noticed during load development that my FL sized brass had pressure signs with lower muzzle velocities than my NS only brass.
FL sized brass definately chambers more easily, though.
I will be switching to .260 shortly and I haven't yet decided which type of sizing I will do for this new caliber.
I have both types of sizing die for my bolt 308, but I usually neck size only using an RCBS bushing die. This is because its faster and I don't need lube.
According to the instructions that came with the die, neck sizing only works the brass less and uses the powder more efficiently near max loads. This is because you are not using some of your powder charge to expand the brass out to the chamber while firing.
I noticed during load development that my FL sized brass had pressure signs with lower muzzle velocities than my NS only brass.
FL sized brass definately chambers more easily, though.
I will be switching to .260 shortly and I haven't yet decided which type of sizing I will do for this new caliber.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cchurchi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... This is because you are not using some of your powder charge to expand the brass out to the chamber while firing.</div></div>
So is the powder more efficient after each time its neck sized? If yes, would this then imply that there is a loss in precision. Having to FL resize every x number of firings, as mentioned previously, answers this question for me. But it is probably negligible...can someone confirm? I'm guessing not enough to change your DOPE, but may be concern for benchresters?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cchurchi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... This is because you are not using some of your powder charge to expand the brass out to the chamber while firing.</div></div>
So is the powder more efficient after each time its neck sized? If yes, would this then imply that there is a loss in precision. Having to FL resize every x number of firings, as mentioned previously, answers this question for me. But it is probably negligible...can someone confirm? I'm guessing not enough to change your DOPE, but may be concern for benchresters?
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BreakBad</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cchurchi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... This is because you are not using some of your powder charge to expand the brass out to the chamber while firing.</div></div>
So is the powder more efficient after each time its neck sized? If yes, would this then imply that there is a loss in precision. Having to FL resize every x number of firings, as mentioned previously, answers this question for me. But it is probably negligible...can someone confirm? I'm guessing not enough to change your DOPE, but may be concern for benchresters?
</div></div>
Yes it's more efficient in the way that a cars power delivery is more efficient than a boat. However, the actual amount of efficiency increase is negligible. Not an expert here but we are talking about MAYBE 1-2 fps not even a change in accuracy. Think about how easy it is to bend brass with pliers. I doubt it takes all that much psi to expand brass by a couple of thousandths.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BreakBad</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cchurchi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... This is because you are not using some of your powder charge to expand the brass out to the chamber while firing.</div></div>
So is the powder more efficient after each time its neck sized? If yes, would this then imply that there is a loss in precision. Having to FL resize every x number of firings, as mentioned previously, answers this question for me. But it is probably negligible...can someone confirm? I'm guessing not enough to change your DOPE, but may be concern for benchresters?
</div></div>
Yes it's more efficient in the way that a cars power delivery is more efficient than a boat. However, the actual amount of efficiency increase is negligible. Not an expert here but we are talking about MAYBE 1-2 fps not even a change in accuracy. Think about how easy it is to bend brass with pliers. I doubt it takes all that much psi to expand brass by a couple of thousandths.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MNS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what brand of FL sizer is best? </div></div>
That's like asking 'what brand rifle is the best?'
anyhow, I do it not for the arguement of accuracy, but less stress on the brass... my lapua last very long this way.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MNS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what brand of FL sizer is best? </div></div>
That's like asking 'what brand rifle is the best?'
anyhow, I do it not for the arguement of accuracy, but less stress on the brass... my lapua last very long this way.
Re: Sizing Cases...Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing
I'll be looking for comments on my next topic....Neck sizing...Bushing Dies vs Collet Dies. I want to hear it all.
I'll be looking for comments on my next topic....Neck sizing...Bushing Dies vs Collet Dies. I want to hear it all.
