I'm currently deployed to Afghanistan, and I decided awhile back to start my first precision rifle build. A friend recommended a Remington 700 LTR, and I went ahead and bought one. I've since been dumping money into parts and upgrades, and I'm starting to wonder: Is it worth it to put almost $2,000 into a factory barreled action? I'm sitting on a bunch of badger parts (Including M5 DBM), I've got a Mcmillan stock on order, a Versa-pod, and I''ve got a Vortex to go on top until I can find a deal on some better glass. But I'm starting to think it would be a smarter investment to just save all the parts for a better action and custom barrel. Any thoughts?
- Thread starter jrhan762
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Re: Remington factory action/barrel quality...
I think it would have been smarter to take the $ already spent and invested it into a high end factory rifle like the TRG or AIAW/AE. You could proably be into a new nonfolder TRG for the cash you have invested (which is a much better system IMO, Im not a big fan of Remington or Remington stlye actions). But with that being said it is just my opinion. You have a very nice factory rifle that may shoot very good in the LTR and it sounds like you have a solid parts spec. I say put it all together and see what it will do, you may be impressed! Dont be fooled into thinking that you myst have a custom barrel on a trued action or custom action to shoot very good. I have seen many factory Remingtons and Savages give any custom a run for their money.
I think it would have been smarter to take the $ already spent and invested it into a high end factory rifle like the TRG or AIAW/AE. You could proably be into a new nonfolder TRG for the cash you have invested (which is a much better system IMO, Im not a big fan of Remington or Remington stlye actions). But with that being said it is just my opinion. You have a very nice factory rifle that may shoot very good in the LTR and it sounds like you have a solid parts spec. I say put it all together and see what it will do, you may be impressed! Dont be fooled into thinking that you myst have a custom barrel on a trued action or custom action to shoot very good. I have seen many factory Remingtons and Savages give any custom a run for their money.
Re: Remington factory action/barrel quality...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrhan762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm currently deployed to Afghanistan, and I decided awhile back to start my first precision rifle build. A friend recommended a Remington 700 LTR, and I went ahead and bought one. I've since been dumping money into parts and upgrades, and I'm starting to wonder: Is it worth it to put almost $2,000 into a factory barreled action? I'm sitting on a bunch of badger parts (Including M5 DBM), I've got a Mcmillan stock on order, a Versa-pod, and I''ve got a Vortex to go on top until I can find a deal on some better glass. But I'm starting to think it would be a smarter investment to just save all the parts for a better action and custom barrel. Any thoughts? </div></div>
I don't think you've been excessive. If you had the factory action trued it'll be another $250-$350 to get it on par with a custom action. Tons of smiths use the Rem action in their custom guns and those guns sell for $2000-$4500 so don't second guess yourself. Also remember that this is NOT an inexpensive hobby by any standpoint. If you go the cheap route by buying a cheap gun, cheap ammo, optics etc. you're not going to achieve a higher level of shooting. It pays to play. As the above mentioned, theTRG and AI series are amazing guns factory but with the right smith, he can make yours equal. Take what you have, shoot it, get good with it then late down the road sell it and buy something of the above mentioned. My .02.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrhan762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm currently deployed to Afghanistan, and I decided awhile back to start my first precision rifle build. A friend recommended a Remington 700 LTR, and I went ahead and bought one. I've since been dumping money into parts and upgrades, and I'm starting to wonder: Is it worth it to put almost $2,000 into a factory barreled action? I'm sitting on a bunch of badger parts (Including M5 DBM), I've got a Mcmillan stock on order, a Versa-pod, and I''ve got a Vortex to go on top until I can find a deal on some better glass. But I'm starting to think it would be a smarter investment to just save all the parts for a better action and custom barrel. Any thoughts? </div></div>
I don't think you've been excessive. If you had the factory action trued it'll be another $250-$350 to get it on par with a custom action. Tons of smiths use the Rem action in their custom guns and those guns sell for $2000-$4500 so don't second guess yourself. Also remember that this is NOT an inexpensive hobby by any standpoint. If you go the cheap route by buying a cheap gun, cheap ammo, optics etc. you're not going to achieve a higher level of shooting. It pays to play. As the above mentioned, theTRG and AI series are amazing guns factory but with the right smith, he can make yours equal. Take what you have, shoot it, get good with it then late down the road sell it and buy something of the above mentioned. My .02.
Re: Remington factory action/barrel quality...
IMO it might depend on what you want it for. Everyone wants to shoot bugholes at long range, but with what bullet, and at what range? Are we punching holes in paper, or in deer-sized moving targets?
On close examination (but with the naked eye) of the old Rem 700P barrel recently removed from my factory Rem, it is obvious that the chamber is not concentric with the bore. I will say, however, that the barrel has some 3000 rounds through it, though I am doubtful that the type of off-center condition I am seeing could be caused by use. Also, I had noticed early on that some loaded rounds would not fall into and out of the chamber cleanly and without coaxing, and upon removal would show rubbing on the side of the bullet; these were rounds which had little or no runout.
Also, the throat on the barrel was always very long; it was impossible, for example, for me to seat 155 Scenars long enough to reach the lands. The barrel shot Sierra MK 168's and 175's all day long at just over a half inch at 100 yards, but <span style="font-weight: bold">it absolutely refused to shoot any vld style bullets, at all, ever</span>, rendering it unsuitable for my intended use (F Class). If your bullet selection will be influenced by terminal ballistics, that should also be taken into consideration.
I am a huge fan of the AICS platform. If they made it for Savage, I'd think harder about Savage.
IMO it might depend on what you want it for. Everyone wants to shoot bugholes at long range, but with what bullet, and at what range? Are we punching holes in paper, or in deer-sized moving targets?
On close examination (but with the naked eye) of the old Rem 700P barrel recently removed from my factory Rem, it is obvious that the chamber is not concentric with the bore. I will say, however, that the barrel has some 3000 rounds through it, though I am doubtful that the type of off-center condition I am seeing could be caused by use. Also, I had noticed early on that some loaded rounds would not fall into and out of the chamber cleanly and without coaxing, and upon removal would show rubbing on the side of the bullet; these were rounds which had little or no runout.
Also, the throat on the barrel was always very long; it was impossible, for example, for me to seat 155 Scenars long enough to reach the lands. The barrel shot Sierra MK 168's and 175's all day long at just over a half inch at 100 yards, but <span style="font-weight: bold">it absolutely refused to shoot any vld style bullets, at all, ever</span>, rendering it unsuitable for my intended use (F Class). If your bullet selection will be influenced by terminal ballistics, that should also be taken into consideration.
I am a huge fan of the AICS platform. If they made it for Savage, I'd think harder about Savage.
Re: Remington factory action/barrel quality...
Lesson learned... If you are shooting say 500-600 yards or less, a factory 700 can shoot well. If you plan on shooting 600-2000 yards or more, then you should rebarrel or go with a custom rifle or AI, TRG or the like. I have watched the results of many long range matches (high power prone, factory BR & F-class) and a Factory 700 is almost never near the top. Then again...a Factory 700 isn't $2500 and up.... If a 700 shot as good as the high end customs and high end factory rifles...it would be in the same price range I'd imagine or the high end riflemakers/builders would be outa business.
Lesson learned... If you are shooting say 500-600 yards or less, a factory 700 can shoot well. If you plan on shooting 600-2000 yards or more, then you should rebarrel or go with a custom rifle or AI, TRG or the like. I have watched the results of many long range matches (high power prone, factory BR & F-class) and a Factory 700 is almost never near the top. Then again...a Factory 700 isn't $2500 and up.... If a 700 shot as good as the high end customs and high end factory rifles...it would be in the same price range I'd imagine or the high end riflemakers/builders would be outa business.
Re: Remington factory action/barrel quality...
Thanks for all the responses! I'm really just getting started with shooting longer ranges, I'm an AR guy. My intention with this rifle is to get it right the first time; so there won't have to be a next time. I'll get it trued and see what it does; by the time my stock is shipped, I should know if it's it got any issues. Thanks again!
Thanks for all the responses! I'm really just getting started with shooting longer ranges, I'm an AR guy. My intention with this rifle is to get it right the first time; so there won't have to be a next time. I'll get it trued and see what it does; by the time my stock is shipped, I should know if it's it got any issues. Thanks again!
Re: Remington factory action/barrel quality...
Have you shot your LTR yet? It may be fine the way it is, I would see how it shoots before you plan on getting it trued.
Have you shot your LTR yet? It may be fine the way it is, I would see how it shoots before you plan on getting it trued.
Re: Remington factory action/barrel quality...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMC mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you shot your LTR yet? It may be fine the way it is, I would see how it shoots before you plan on getting it trued. </div></div>
+1.
Nothing wrong with an R700. Here is a pic that my wife shot with a 5R:
Take a read of this post:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1824082&page=1 (AI AW vs 700 style actions ...which fails more?) It won't necessarily answer your questions, but will give you lots of think about. IMO, this was the highlight, Lowlight answering Chiller's question on why he sees problems with customs actions during matches:
<span style="font-style: italic">They fail in a multitude of places, mainly due to the tolerances not accepting the dirty and debris that find their way into the actions.
Can this effect the triggers too, yes, that does happen, but trigger are part of the system, and usually when people go ahead and buy a custom action they get a high speed trigger too... the biggest trigger offender is the Jewell. They fail more than most in the field. I wouldn't use a Jewell if you gave me one, plus a $1000 for my troubles.
The other issue I have seen is with the Surgeons, they bounce the empty brass back into the action, causing problems. Preston's answer I have heard repeated is, "don't run the bolt like they do at RIfles Only", but I also know its happening more often, however there is a fix, as I know GAP has wrenched on them and removed the problem. The RSR seems to be fine, its the one with the built in rail that seems to do this. I also know we have screwed up the Lawton's pretty bad as well.
Manufacturers think custom means "tight tolerance" as though they are trying to get the accuracy from the action, and frankly I don't think that is the answer. The accuracy is the barrel. I would rather a looser action than a problem in the dirt. What I "might' lose from being a bit looser, I will gain by driving the rifle right as well having it actually work the first time. When you look at that video from Zak, if you think even after recovering from the problem they will maintain their accuracy, then you don't shoot enough. In that situation a flustered shooter will be more likely to blow the shot.
As far as lubing them, I know my Nesika K action needs a bunch of grease or it will gall the lugs a bit. The tolerance is too tight so you have to overly clean the bolt and keep it well lubed to work. My Remingtons, and my AIs you don't need near the maintenance and yet, I can't tell the difference in accuracy. I always ask that I don't get a rifle with "Benchrest/Match/Super Tight, tolerances. I want a loose chamber too.
Match is fine, Tactical is different, and these aren't benchrest guns... give me some wiggle room because the thing is gonna get shot, and its gonna get dirty.</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMC mustang</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you shot your LTR yet? It may be fine the way it is, I would see how it shoots before you plan on getting it trued. </div></div>
+1.
Nothing wrong with an R700. Here is a pic that my wife shot with a 5R:
Take a read of this post:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1824082&page=1 (AI AW vs 700 style actions ...which fails more?) It won't necessarily answer your questions, but will give you lots of think about. IMO, this was the highlight, Lowlight answering Chiller's question on why he sees problems with customs actions during matches:
<span style="font-style: italic">They fail in a multitude of places, mainly due to the tolerances not accepting the dirty and debris that find their way into the actions.
Can this effect the triggers too, yes, that does happen, but trigger are part of the system, and usually when people go ahead and buy a custom action they get a high speed trigger too... the biggest trigger offender is the Jewell. They fail more than most in the field. I wouldn't use a Jewell if you gave me one, plus a $1000 for my troubles.
The other issue I have seen is with the Surgeons, they bounce the empty brass back into the action, causing problems. Preston's answer I have heard repeated is, "don't run the bolt like they do at RIfles Only", but I also know its happening more often, however there is a fix, as I know GAP has wrenched on them and removed the problem. The RSR seems to be fine, its the one with the built in rail that seems to do this. I also know we have screwed up the Lawton's pretty bad as well.
Manufacturers think custom means "tight tolerance" as though they are trying to get the accuracy from the action, and frankly I don't think that is the answer. The accuracy is the barrel. I would rather a looser action than a problem in the dirt. What I "might' lose from being a bit looser, I will gain by driving the rifle right as well having it actually work the first time. When you look at that video from Zak, if you think even after recovering from the problem they will maintain their accuracy, then you don't shoot enough. In that situation a flustered shooter will be more likely to blow the shot.
As far as lubing them, I know my Nesika K action needs a bunch of grease or it will gall the lugs a bit. The tolerance is too tight so you have to overly clean the bolt and keep it well lubed to work. My Remingtons, and my AIs you don't need near the maintenance and yet, I can't tell the difference in accuracy. I always ask that I don't get a rifle with "Benchrest/Match/Super Tight, tolerances. I want a loose chamber too.
Match is fine, Tactical is different, and these aren't benchrest guns... give me some wiggle room because the thing is gonna get shot, and its gonna get dirty.</span>
Re: Remington factory action/barrel quality...
+1 for the two above
+1 for the two above
Re: Remington factory action/barrel quality...
See how it shoots. A new barrel and trying the action,and don't forget a good bedding job can work wonders. I personally will never take another chance with a factory Remington weapon and think it will be accurate out of the box. I've already killed one r700 and a working on the next. It's always a crap shoot when you buy factory Rem.
See how it shoots. A new barrel and trying the action,and don't forget a good bedding job can work wonders. I personally will never take another chance with a factory Remington weapon and think it will be accurate out of the box. I've already killed one r700 and a working on the next. It's always a crap shoot when you buy factory Rem.
Re: Remington factory action/barrel quality...
I would definitely see how it shoots first, if it shoots to your liking; spend the extra cash you would have used to true it to save for a new barrel. Learn how to shoot with the stock barrel, then upgrade to a higher quality one once you are proficient at the art of long range shooting. just my $.02
I would definitely see how it shoots first, if it shoots to your liking; spend the extra cash you would have used to true it to save for a new barrel. Learn how to shoot with the stock barrel, then upgrade to a higher quality one once you are proficient at the art of long range shooting. just my $.02
Re: Remington factory action/barrel quality...
I have a remington 5R and the quality is very good. I give the factory action and barrel a chance. If it shoots what you want it to and so forth then leave it alone. You wont need to go to a custom gun since factory gun is doing what you want.
I would take a factory action and barrel over any custom barrel and action if it did what i wanted it to do.
Heath
I have a remington 5R and the quality is very good. I give the factory action and barrel a chance. If it shoots what you want it to and so forth then leave it alone. You wont need to go to a custom gun since factory gun is doing what you want.
I would take a factory action and barrel over any custom barrel and action if it did what i wanted it to do.
Heath
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