Reading topics with folks asking questions concerning what dies are best. Are there very many people that have considered that one may have great dies, but still get questionable results because their press ram me be a little off? OR vise-versa?? With so many tolerances in different places, the possibilities can vary.
- Thread starter boltgunluvr
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Re: Bad dies, bad press or combo of both???
+1 to rrflyer comment. Took me a while to learn that. I take a lot more time (care) now than when I started. I go slow as the ram goes up and when it reaches (doesn't HIT) the stop I hold it there for a few seconds before reversing. I've seen more consistent shoulder bump, neck size and seating depth measurements with no other change than slowing down the process.
There might be the occasional press issue but on the better ones I would think they're few and far between. Of course some guys would say if you aren't using an arbor press then you have press issues.
+1 to rrflyer comment. Took me a while to learn that. I take a lot more time (care) now than when I started. I go slow as the ram goes up and when it reaches (doesn't HIT) the stop I hold it there for a few seconds before reversing. I've seen more consistent shoulder bump, neck size and seating depth measurements with no other change than slowing down the process.
There might be the occasional press issue but on the better ones I would think they're few and far between. Of course some guys would say if you aren't using an arbor press then you have press issues.
Re: Bad dies, bad press or combo of both???
I think there is a lot of talk about good and bad dies, which are the best and the same thing with the press. Almost all of it is Ford/Chevy opinion. All the dies available are capable of producing quality handloads and certainly, every press on the market is good enough. I am a little mystified by some that really think this or that press is junk or that you can buy some dies that won't resize a cartridge case adequately.
Yes, there are some dies that have better features and cost more but the inexpensive ones, (read Lee) are just as accurate as those costing ten times as much. Same with the Co-AX press. Yes it's beefy and it is well made and costs more, but a RCBS press at a lower cost is just as accurate and will last decades and produce excellent quality reloads.
So, I think the question is misguided. People have preferences and that doesn't mean this is the case:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but still get questionable results because their press ram me be a little off?</div></div>
I have an assortment of dies from different manufacturers and I'm not throwing any of them away. I have three presses from two different manufacturers and I trust them all. I just do not understand the concern? These devices are simple and hardly ever wear out with bare minimum care. The dies should last a lifetime and then some. BB
edit: and yes, I am guilty of having a preference for straight line seating ides and an arbor press. I also like bushing dies, but I do not think that is the question at hand.
I think there is a lot of talk about good and bad dies, which are the best and the same thing with the press. Almost all of it is Ford/Chevy opinion. All the dies available are capable of producing quality handloads and certainly, every press on the market is good enough. I am a little mystified by some that really think this or that press is junk or that you can buy some dies that won't resize a cartridge case adequately.
Yes, there are some dies that have better features and cost more but the inexpensive ones, (read Lee) are just as accurate as those costing ten times as much. Same with the Co-AX press. Yes it's beefy and it is well made and costs more, but a RCBS press at a lower cost is just as accurate and will last decades and produce excellent quality reloads.
So, I think the question is misguided. People have preferences and that doesn't mean this is the case:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">but still get questionable results because their press ram me be a little off?</div></div>
I have an assortment of dies from different manufacturers and I'm not throwing any of them away. I have three presses from two different manufacturers and I trust them all. I just do not understand the concern? These devices are simple and hardly ever wear out with bare minimum care. The dies should last a lifetime and then some. BB
edit: and yes, I am guilty of having a preference for straight line seating ides and an arbor press. I also like bushing dies, but I do not think that is the question at hand.
Re: Bad dies, bad press or combo of both???
Very similar to shooting, accuracy is often more about the shooter than the equipment.
Agree on the dies too, I have dies from Forster, Redding, RCBS and yes Lee (really like the collet). I would love to try out a custom die but quite honestly I'm not sure it would improve my scores. Until I get to the point where I shoot well enough that I think it might help me pick up a point or two I'll continue to focus on improving how I shoot/load.
Very similar to shooting, accuracy is often more about the shooter than the equipment.
Agree on the dies too, I have dies from Forster, Redding, RCBS and yes Lee (really like the collet). I would love to try out a custom die but quite honestly I'm not sure it would improve my scores. Until I get to the point where I shoot well enough that I think it might help me pick up a point or two I'll continue to focus on improving how I shoot/load.
Re: Bad dies, bad press or combo of both???
Smooth slow operation and good dies usually mean good ammo.
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I completely agree with you. If folks will focus on smooth and consistent operation, I think they'll be pleased. I also believe all the manufacturers are producing great quality stuff.
Smooth slow operation and good dies usually mean good ammo.
[/quote]
I completely agree with you. If folks will focus on smooth and consistent operation, I think they'll be pleased. I also believe all the manufacturers are producing great quality stuff.
Re: Bad dies, bad press or combo of both???
Glad to see people responding. I've experienced most accuracy issues related to bullet type (boattail vs flat base) OR bullet depth seating. Not powder, dies, press, etc. TY for responses.
Glad to see people responding. I've experienced most accuracy issues related to bullet type (boattail vs flat base) OR bullet depth seating. Not powder, dies, press, etc. TY for responses.
Re: Bad dies, bad press or combo of both???
Plus alot of it is sorta luck with dies matching chambers closely and you hope that the die is as close to your chamber as practical and with varying machining tolerances and human error chambering a barrel improperly can induce problems that are hard to diagnose.
Plus alot of it is sorta luck with dies matching chambers closely and you hope that the die is as close to your chamber as practical and with varying machining tolerances and human error chambering a barrel improperly can induce problems that are hard to diagnose.
Re: Bad dies, bad press or combo of both???
If you don't use Redding dies and a Co-Ax press you have never loaded any ammo to it's true potential. You also must have super shiny brass that has been cleaned with SS media and or ultrasonic cleaning. It is imperative that all primer pockets be uniformed and spit shined and of course all cases must be sorted by weight and volume.
This statement is of course untrue, and has been proven untrue for many years before any of this stuff became the rage.
I agree with many of the above statements by other posters, much of the equipment out there is just fine, and quite capable of loading match grade ammo.
I too have used some of the more expensive equipment and custom dies. Most shooters will never benefit from the voodoo that is required in BR competition.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: in2deep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Plus alot of it is sorta luck with dies matching chambers closely and you hope that the die is as close to your chamber as practical and with varying machining tolerances and human error chambering a barrel improperly can induce problems that are hard to diagnose.
</div></div>
This statement is the most overlooked factor when a reloader begins his quest for accuracy. Reloading is easy when you have a good chamber with tight tolerances, especially in reference to concentricity with the bore, and minimal headspacing for reliable feeding.
My newest custom rifle is the easiest to load quality ammo for of any rifle I have owned. I use a plain jane Rockchucker and factory run Redding dies. No special seater and no special sizer. It has shot well under MOA out to 1000yd, I have yet to determine if it will do that "all day long". It has taught me that money spent on the right gunsmith who treats chambering as an artform, trumps money spent on high end handloading equipment.
A factory chamber can be exceptional but you are at the mercy of the gods in getting one. There have been untold fortunes expended on chasing accuracy from factory chambers, by buying "better" loading equipment than one should reasonably need. I am sure there have been instances of buying the best loading tools money could buy in which the overspending for that last farction of an inch in accuracy, could have been better spent on superior chambers and barrels, thus eliminating the most likely culprit.
If you don't use Redding dies and a Co-Ax press you have never loaded any ammo to it's true potential. You also must have super shiny brass that has been cleaned with SS media and or ultrasonic cleaning. It is imperative that all primer pockets be uniformed and spit shined and of course all cases must be sorted by weight and volume.
This statement is of course untrue, and has been proven untrue for many years before any of this stuff became the rage.
I agree with many of the above statements by other posters, much of the equipment out there is just fine, and quite capable of loading match grade ammo.
I too have used some of the more expensive equipment and custom dies. Most shooters will never benefit from the voodoo that is required in BR competition.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: in2deep</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Plus alot of it is sorta luck with dies matching chambers closely and you hope that the die is as close to your chamber as practical and with varying machining tolerances and human error chambering a barrel improperly can induce problems that are hard to diagnose.
</div></div>
This statement is the most overlooked factor when a reloader begins his quest for accuracy. Reloading is easy when you have a good chamber with tight tolerances, especially in reference to concentricity with the bore, and minimal headspacing for reliable feeding.
My newest custom rifle is the easiest to load quality ammo for of any rifle I have owned. I use a plain jane Rockchucker and factory run Redding dies. No special seater and no special sizer. It has shot well under MOA out to 1000yd, I have yet to determine if it will do that "all day long". It has taught me that money spent on the right gunsmith who treats chambering as an artform, trumps money spent on high end handloading equipment.
A factory chamber can be exceptional but you are at the mercy of the gods in getting one. There have been untold fortunes expended on chasing accuracy from factory chambers, by buying "better" loading equipment than one should reasonably need. I am sure there have been instances of buying the best loading tools money could buy in which the overspending for that last farction of an inch in accuracy, could have been better spent on superior chambers and barrels, thus eliminating the most likely culprit.
