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building a 6mm something, looking for input

johninok

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 6, 2011
154
1
51
central ok
Collecting parts for a new build, rem SA with hopefully factory BDL metal. Heavy sporter at 22" or so.
thinking about .243, 243 improved, etc. Wanting to shoot the 105 VLD bullets. Will these feed from a factory set up, or will they be so long I have a single shot?
Would really like to stay in the 6mm bore for this build, any thoughts on other chamberings that fit the criteria? Will be a dual use rifle, deer, and steel out to 700 yards or so. thanks, John
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

243 Win. Can't beat it, should't have to single shot either. I can touch the lands in my rifle with plenty of room to spare length wise. Also, If you ever decide to go with a detachable mag setup, the 243 feeds perfectly.
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

Second vote for 243 win. Make to get a 1:8 twist for those 105's. Lots of very good load data for the 243 win. I have a 26" barrel but plan to shorten it to 22".
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

If you ever visit accurateshooter.com they have a lot of info on 6mm rounds. 6xc, 6x47 lapua, 6-250, 6SLR are just some of them. I would say the 6mmbr and that family but I have heard of feeding problems unless you do some mods to the mag. But I shoot a 6BRX myself out to 600 yards and love it. Just last week I shot a four shot group at 600 and three went into a group of .880" when the fourth shot opened the group to 2.3". Plus there is no recoil to those kinds of rounds if you are recoil sensitive.
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6XC </div></div>

What this wise gent suggested!!!!! The XC will do anything the 243 will do with less powder and longer barrel life! It and numerous others came about because of the shortfalls of the 243 etc.
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

The good news is that there are a bunch of excellent 6mm's. It's hard to go wromg with any of them.

I don't think you'll need the power of the 243AI for your use. The 6xc, 6slr, and straight 243 would work fine.

Take a look at die cost, brass cost, and barrel life and make your decision from there.

The standard 243 isn't perfect, but it's super easy to live with.
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

If accuracy is most important - I would go with the 6BR. This is what I was able to do on steel at 500yd just "messing around".

target.jpg
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeffvn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6x47 Lapua, 6 SLR, or 6 Creedmore

Jeffvn </div></div>

This.... i just did a 6slr and it shoots. 24" barrel and i can get 3150fps pretty easy with the 105 hunting vld. I think youd be fine with the 6x47L, 6cm, 6mm rem, 243 win. They all should shoot just fine they're just a good all around caliber.

Xdeano
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeffvn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6x47 Lapua, 6 SLR, or 6 Creedmore

Jeffvn</div></div>

i second the 6x47 lapua. I've got one and it hammers with 105 hybrids!
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

you guys have me thinking. Which of these will feed reiliably in a rem SA?
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johninok</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you guys have me thinking. Which of these will feed reiliably in a rem SA? </div></div>

6XC & 6x47 Lapua have the best brass available. 6XC brass is cheaper but the 6x47 Lapua will drive the 105 faster. Both feed from an AI magazine like a fat chick at a buffet.

For mag feeding I'd pass on the 6BR, BRX, Dasher or any other varient of the 6BR.
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

6XC
buy brass direct from Tubbs @ $68 x100

SLR good option, brass is easy to find, no fire forming
243/260 done right

6-250
easy neck up, XC is just a blown 250

6x47
I shoot a 6.5x47 great lil round, cost of brass is stupid expensive, will not build another thou i have enuff brass to last
well past my expiration date.

So in a short barrel TAK type rig
melonite barrel
6XC
guessin barrel life would be 8K or so
buy 500 cases and go to town
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Will the 6XC hit 3100 with the 105 Hybrids?

j </div></div>

Jason, using the Norma brass it should. I am currently running 3000 and change with my 26" Rock and moly 107 Sierra.This with reformed Win 22/250. The Norma/Tubb brass will run higher pressures with naked. I have pushed the 107SMK to about 3100 IIRC with H4350. In my 6x47L I am running the 107SMK @ 3160 with no pressure using 40gr of RL17 and Broughton 8 twist @ 26".
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

I am shooting 3140 with 105 hybrids in a xc

I have a 27 inch Krieger

39.6 grains H4350

I was shooting a hotter load than above. Ran into primer issues in the rain so I slowed here back

Accuracy is amazing up close and at 1K
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 105amatt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">243 Win. Can't beat it, should't have to single shot either. I can touch the lands in my rifle with plenty of room to spare length wise. Also, If you ever decide to go with a detachable mag setup, the 243 feeds perfectly.</div></div>

Standard .243 works great. Not sexy or new but will do everything you need and brass is cheap and plentiful.
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

I agree with rob01 above. the standard 243 will be everything you need it to be without having to form brass which can be a pain
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

+1 more for the standard 243. Also, factory ammo options are vast with the 243. It can also send the 105 vld's to your desiredvelocity with ease..
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johninok</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you guys have me thinking. Which of these will feed reiliably in a rem SA? </div></div>

6XC brass is cheaper but the 6x47 Lapua will drive the 105 faster.
</div></div>
How will the 6x47 push any bullet faster than the 6XC? The 6XC has more case capacity...doi?
With a 22" bbl. you'll need more capacity than any 6BR variant to get the 105's out to 1K yds. so I would say 6XC or larger case.
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

6mm Crusader and blow the rest of them out of the water
smile.gif


Brass is now available, and it feeds from a AI mag. 105's out to 3400fps and 115's to 3300fps.Run the figures and you will see that it compares against a 7WSM! Barrel life isn't great but there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Out of the rest I'd take the 6mmSLR, and get the extra velocity over the 6XC.
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

308/260/243
All suffer from same issue, piss poor case design

No fire forming and this is corrected via SLR

65_cartridges__2.jpg

260,6.5SLR,6.5CM,6.5x47

As shown via photo SLR fixes piss poor 243/260 case, you dont fire form ... its a push die

so if ya think 243 is answer at least do it right via SLR, the improved shoulder and longer neck will give better barrel life.
243 WIN brass is good n easy to find

The XC n CM are almost identical, the difference in price is $6 x100 ... $62 vs $68
Personally i would rather run Norma brass than Hornady, so XC makes most sense

My 20" x47 "da pig gun"
123 scenar 3023fps via re17
reverse calc based on actual dope used
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bolloxinaspanner</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johninok</div><div class="ubbcode-body">you guys have me thinking. Which of these will feed reiliably in a rem SA? </div></div>

6XC brass is cheaper but the 6x47 Lapua will drive the 105 faster.
</div></div>
How will the 6x47 push any bullet faster than the 6XC? The 6XC has more case capacity...doi?
With a 22" bbl. you'll need more capacity than any 6BR variant to get the 105's out to 1K yds. so I would say 6XC or larger case. </div></div>

Because the case design at the web is stronger than the other 6mm's mentioned. Rated for 64,000 PSI coupled with a small primer pocket and small flash hole. There's a lot of extra brass at the bottom part of the case. The composition of the brass might have something to do with it as well??? I had a 6.5-284 benchrest rifle before. The Lapua brass would hold pressures fine. With Nosler brass using the same gun,bullets,powder,primers I had to reduce the load a full 3 grains before pressure signs normalized.

The truth is there is plenty of pressure when pushing a 105 at 3100fps or above. It's just that the case is so strong you can't tell. I did a pressure experiment on my 28" barrel,6x47L,R-17 powder one time with 105's and 115's to see when the bolt on my rifle got sticky. Granted I was using a crappy chrono so I'm unsure what the actual velocity was but the 105's went to 3347 fps and 3230 fps with 115's. Barely getting smoke around the primer and the pockets were still tight enough to reload the cases again.
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

Definitely 243 Win.....its win/win situation. No feeding issues so it can be a repeater. No brass issues, no die issues, years of loading data. And don't forget, 243 Win pulls triple duty if necessary...target, deer, AND varmint but I prefer it for target & deer. I do know a few people that took elk with 243 Win. Make a careful barrel/bullet selection and you'll be very happy. A 243 AI is only going to cause more barrel wear.
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

Jedi has it down. I shoot 6xc and it's great, but if you're leaning towards a little more capacity of the .243 then do it right with the SLR. I think the SLR is is going to become pretty popular.
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bolloxinaspanner</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
johninok said:
you guys have me thinking. Which of these will feed reiliably in a rem SA? </div></div>

6XC brass is cheaper but the 6x47 Lapua will drive the 105 faster.
</div></div>

Because the case design at the web is stronger than the other 6mm's mentioned. Rated for 64,000 PSI coupled with a small primer pocket and small flash hole. There's a lot of extra brass at the bottom part of the case.
</div></div>
6XC has same rating and the chamber design has more to do with case failure (which is what I think you are driving at) than nominal differences in case design. Everybody's mileage will vary but I would rather have more case capacity than ride the ragged edge of case failure/bullet failure on a hot day at a match. Running hot loads with long pills will also torch the lands at the case mouth a lot sooner.
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bolloxinaspanner</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bolloxinaspanner</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
johninok said:
you guys have me thinking. Which of these will feed reiliably in a rem SA? </div></div>

6XC brass is cheaper but the 6x47 Lapua will drive the 105 faster.
</div></div>

Because the case design at the web is stronger than the other 6mm's mentioned. Rated for 64,000 PSI coupled with a small primer pocket and small flash hole. There's a lot of extra brass at the bottom part of the case.
</div></div>
6XC has same rating and the chamber design has more to do with case failure (which is what I think you are driving at) than nominal differences in case design. Everybody's mileage will vary but I would rather have more case capacity than ride the ragged edge of case failure/bullet failure on a hot day at a match. Running hot loads with long pills will also torch the lands at the case mouth a lot sooner. </div></div>

I looked it up and the Tubb 6XC does have close to 64,000 PSI rating. I didn't realize that. Good to know. However I found this post about 6XC brass interesting.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2739834

I will mention that the 6.5x47L case is the strongest case I've ever shot. It's been 5 years now since I bought them and I don't anticipate having to buy cases for many more years.

My theory is that chamber design "within reason" has little to do with case life. I think the metallurgy in the case has more to do with the cases ability to handle pressure, along with the attributes I've already mentioned. Next would be how much the case is resized every time. If a case is only sized a few .001's to fit in it's chamber (Edit) "match dies and match chamber" vs being sized .010 to fit,(Edit) "I meant a biggish chamber and smallish dies over sizing the brass", the latter case will fail sooner. Back to my 6.5-284 analogy... It's the best example I can think of to make my point but not the only example I've had the displeasure to experience.

I learned my lesson about throat life after the last 6x47L barrel went south at 1500 rounds. Striving for that extra fps wasn't worth the hassle. I've been plenty competitive shooting long range at 3025 fps with 115's, which is a medium load in my rifle. My hat is off to anyone who can guess/read .1 mil in the wind, which is that extra 100 fps. I know I can't.

All that being said. If I had more expendable income I'd be looking real hard at the 6mm Crusader, 3300 fps =.2 mil advantage in the wind is notable. The problem is that most of the tactical matches I've been to have a 3100 fps velocity cap. One could always load it lighter if they wanted and preserve some barrel life but Nah, I'll stick with what I got.
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

If your shooting alot of TAK matchs and lose alot of brass then the SLR maybe perfect
WIN brand brass is good, plentiful and cheap
the extra case cap allows use of slower powders or extra performance, thou melonite barrel will for sure help.
2x even 3x is being touted as common for the cost all my future barrels will be done for sure.
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I looked it up and the Tubb 6XC does have close to 64,000 PSI rating. I didn't realize that. Good to know. However I found this post about 6XC brass interesting.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2739834
</div></div>
I'll see you Mudcat and raise you German Salazar.
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/06/cartridges-6xc-for-long-range-prone.html
"If a case is only sized a few .001's to fit in it's chamber vs being sized .010 to fit, the latter case will fail sooner."
That is the exact problem the early 6XC shooters experienced with Tubb's relatively enormous chamber for the Highpower version of the cartridge. If you pumped up the load to push the 115's out to 1k yds. to approach the BC of the 6.5/284, case life suffered accordingly. When I settled on the 6XC for my LR rifle I ordered Dave Kiff's LR-6XC reamer with much more svelte dimensions. With that chamber and Norma brass I gladly gave my Tubb brass and fire formed Win. brass the old heave-ho. QED, chamber design will remain my holy grail, metallurgy is way too amorphous and untestable by Joe Bag O'Donuts.
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

I did a 243 ai. I really like it, yeah fire forming is a pain but go stuff the cases with 11 grains of unique and fill with creame of wheat and toilet paper and you can have these formed right up out in the garage in no time. also I don't see myself EVER needing to trim these cases as the fire forming shortens the case neck. so your trading fire forming for case triming, I think I like fire forming better.

be skeptical on the speeds claimed by some I ran 3200+ with 105's and no pressure signs but after 3 loadings my primer pockets were very loose. I have had to back my load off to 3130 fps with 105' and that is with a case with quite a big more compacity than many of those mentioned this is with lapua brass. as to feeding I had trouble getting my AI cases to feed right, so I found someone selling an old HS precision detachable mag setup, now they feed very well.
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

6XC: My last 4 shot group at 1000 was 5.6" in windy conditions. I think all of the 6mms shoot well but with the 3200 fps speed limitations with most comps some of the hotter cartridges lose their advantage i.e. 243AI, 6CM, SLR. 6XC is predominately used in the square range games and I felt it was a good fit for the practical shooting side. As a brand new reloader, I could buy factory brass and there are a lot of folks around who could answer my questions about powders, primers, loads, chambers, and bullets. I guess if I were a more confident/experienced reloader I would have gone with one of the hotrods... But I'm happy with what I've got below for now
smile.gif
p.s. no case trimming

HawksRidge6XC4350testload.gif
 
Re: building a 6mm something, looking for input

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jedi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your shooting alot of TAK matchs and lose alot of brass then the SLR maybe perfect
WIN brand brass is good, plentiful and cheap
the extra case cap allows use of slower powders or extra performance, thou melonite barrel will for sure help.

<span style="color: #FF0000">2x even 3x is being touted as common for the cost all my future barrels will be done for sure. </span></div></div>

Hopefully I can give you guys a report on a Melonited barrel's life in 2-3 years
wink.gif
Last time I measured the throat on my 6x47L it was .008 at 1350 rounds.

I'm having all my future barrels Melonited.