problems with a die

[Subxero]

So not to long ago i bought a hornady ND FL die for .308.

I noticed from the start that not only was it hard to feed the brass but extracting the brass from the die was also difficult.

Then the brass was a little tight to close in the chamber.

I'm thinking that either the neck is getting sized too small and thus making it hard for the expander to pull back through and it is stretching my brass.

or the expander is too big and stretching the brass.

Is there a good way to figure out the issue?

thinking i could remove expander ball, size i piece of brass, measure neck ect... then do same with expander in place and look for the differences?

anyone have experience with this?

 

[1lnbrdg]

Re: problems with a die

Sounds like a good start. Are you getting any lube inside the case?

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: problems with a die

Is this your first attempt at handloading? My first inclination is the die is set up improperly, not that it has some defect? BB

 

[Subxero]

Re: problems with a die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is this your first attempt at handloading? My first inclination is the die is set up improperly, not that it has some defect? BB </div></div>

please let me know why you feel the die is set up incorrectly, what information provided leads you to this conclusion?

 

[Subxero]

Re: problems with a die

i use imperial sizing wax, and have put some lube in the case mouths but it still requires more force than it should especially when extracting.

i contacted hornady and they want me to send the die back for them to check it out.

I hate sending stuff back, it is a waste of my time but it might be the only option at this point

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: problems with a die

What's the inside measurement of the neck? What lube are you using? The neck will be under sized with out the expander ball. Depending on the die you may not be able to resize said shell after wards. (A redding .223 button will not go down a case thet ahs been sized but will pull back out of the case. The knurls get hung up on the case mouth.) If you are used to .223 cases .308's feel harder.

Your inner diameter should be .305 maybe .306. I'm not sure what your case should measure without an expander ball. As for the newly sized brass not chambering I'd guess that the die isn't down all the way. Try turning the die down about 1/8th of a turn and try again, 1/8th is almost 9 thousandths of an inch. If you are a good judge of it try a 16th of a turn. Or go back and re-read your die set up.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: problems with a die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SubXerO</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is this your first attempt at handloading? My first inclination is the die is set up improperly, not that it has some defect? BB </div></div>

please let me know why you feel the die is set up incorrectly, what information provided leads you to this conclusion?

</div></div>

If the die isn't set right the case won't size all the way. When you chamber the case you size the case down to your chamber. That is why it is hard to chamber.

 

[Subxero]

Re: problems with a die

all good points,

I do reload a lot of .223 and it is easy going, i also reload a lot of .243 which is also easy going.

Yeah, not sure how measuring things would help me out as i don't know what the expected sizes should be.

can't remember what the case mouths are measuring off the top of my head, when i get home i will check, and check the dimensions of the expander ball itself as well. But i think the inner diameter is close to .304, or .305 if i remember correctly.

As far as the chambering, the die not being down far enough is a typical problem and i have looked into this, thanks for the suggestion but this not my problem.

The case extraction is my main concern for now, The case disengages the die perfectly fine but when it gets down to the expander ball it is super difficult to get the rest of the way.

I might just buy another FL die and see how it does, will give me something to compare too.

 

[Subxero]

Re: problems with a die

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunsnjeeps</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SubXerO</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is this your first attempt at handloading? My first inclination is the die is set up improperly, not that it has some defect? BB </div></div>

please let me know why you feel the die is set up incorrectly, what information provided leads you to this conclusion?

</div></div>

If the die isn't set right the case won't size all the way. When you chamber the case you size the case down to your chamber. That is why it is hard to chamber. </div></div>

sorry to sound like a jerk on this one,

but i have seen it 1000 times, any time someone has an issue with a die, it is automatically everyone says that they don't have it set up right. And yes this can be the case, but for once, i would like people the read the post, and see that chambering is only part of the problem and setting the die up incorrectly would help explain this but this alone and have little to do with the extraction issue when it encounters the expander ball.

I use a Forster CO-AX which is super easy to use as far as i am concerned and gives me lots of mechanical advantage

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: problems with a die

My comprehension is generally more than adequate.The reason you see the same response 1000 times is because 999 of those times, the die is not set correctly. Your explanation of the problem is why I asked the question. As you have experience, maybe you should just send the die to the manufacturer? BB

 

[Subxero]

Re: problems with a die

so update, my inside case diameter after sizing measures .303 seems a little small but given the variability in dies it is probably well within limits.

Took the die apart, polished the expander ball with my dremel and a wire brush attachment then a buffer attachment, and put a little sizing wax on it.

The next 4 cases, did standard lube with sizing wax on outside and just run finger over case mouth and they went super smooth...

but it was short lived, despite countinuing to lube the case mouths after a few more extractions it was back to being difficult.

Think this week i will pick up another cheaper FL die and give it a go.

 

[boltgunluvr]

Re: problems with a die

assuming you are trimming cases as necessary?????

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: problems with a die

Expalined why I agreed it could be the die set up. Measured a few of the necks from my Redding Dies on once fired Lake City. They're .305, the ball is .307. I didn't size one without the ball since everything I have is either primed or ready to prime.

It sounds like after you removed the wax from the ball they started dragging again. Try a handfull and lube the inside of every third one with a qtip.

Did the cases you sized after polishing the ball chamber any better?

 

[jeff1383]

Re: problems with a die

Have the same die set but for 6.5 grendel..had the same problem as yourself. I polished the expand ball for starters...got a little better. I always lube cases then hit the mouths with hornady one shot and it runs perfectly. GL

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: problems with a die

Your difficulty is pulling out the expander ball, the case isn't sticking in the die as your original post made it sound. A thou or two smaller neck makes a big difference when we're talking about pulling a metal ball out of a too small metal hole/neck. Since that involves both high friction and some carbon contamination inside the neck you can polish the ball every half dozen times or use a lube or put up with it as the rest of us do.

You are correct in that there's no adjustment to change the neck but your first post gave equal billing to chambering difficulty and that usually IS a failure to push the case into the die properly and that IS a user adjustment problem.

When it's "hard to feed the brass" into a die it's virtually always due to improper lube application, especially with a high leverage press such as the Coax.

"Sorry to sound like a jerk on this one," .. well, at the risk of sounding harsh, I wonder about people who ask poorly worded questions and then get offended when some of the advice received isn't what is wanted to be heard. For one thing, if they already know what the answer is and isn't, and already know what they're going to do about it (buy new dies), why ask us?

 

[Subxero]

Re: problems with a die

Cases are trimmed, and i am putting a very moderate amount of lube on the case mouths as i stated earlier.

After polishing the ball ect... i am starting to think it might be a combination of things like fuzzball mentioned. I think it is a tight die to begin with and that in combination with the carbon build up on the expander ball only makes things worse and more lube than i am used to might be required

I have some more cases at home i will mess with tonight, I will go heavy on the lube in the mouths, i usually only put a tiny bit as that is all i have ever needed and never wanted to over do it.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: problems with a die

The "screech" sound, when, (on the down stroke) you pass the expander ball through the neck area is very common. I generally use a nylon bore brush of appropriate diameter on all necks while in the loading block, before I pick up each for inserting in the shell holder, rubbing a slightly oily forefinger and thumb on the case body while doing so.

This is all that is needed and the "screech" goes away with very little lube, and in my case, I use WD40 on the bore brush, so expander balls and necks are seldom a problem. Hornady uses an elliptical expander ball and the theory is that it doesn't distort the necks as much; but is a solution to a non problem, as far as I am concerned.

The 308 case is extremely forgiving and easy to load for, I have never had any problem whatsoever, sizing or seating, and just about any manufacture is completely adequate, whether you choose bargain brand or expensive custom micrometer dies. BB

 

[Subxero]

Re: problems with a die

I will try doing a quick brush of the insides of the necks as well and see how that serves me.

thanks for the thought

 

[former naval person]

Re: problems with a die

A cleaning brush with some 0000 steel wool wound on it and spun in a drill while brushing the inside of the case necks will really smooth things up. I do that then lightly lube the inside of the necks with a graphite in alcohol (Lock Ease) suspension. No petroleum products in the case with that stuff.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

Re: problems with a die

Any petroleum or lube of any kind used on the necks while resizing <span style="text-decoration: line-through">should not</span> will not be a problem if you go right to the tumbler and the corn cob. BB

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: problems with a die

Any resolution?

 

[Conrad]

Re: problems with a die

I know this could also be taken as a "blanket statement", but why not just forego the problem and get a bushing die set? It really takes a lot of wear off your brass. With that said I think with polishing things up will help. Another option, and I know Forster does it, but you might ask Hornady if they'll hone a custom neck diameter in that die for you. Cheaper option to buying a FL bushing die.

 

[Subxero]

Re: problems with a die

I reloaded some the other day, i just ended up lubing the crap out of the inside necks. It got me through with out to much hassle. I still think something is off with the die though.

i have lost interest for the moment in figuring it out as i got new reloading some for my new rifle so working up a load as now taken priority

 

[milo 2.0]

Re: problems with a die

Try polishing the inside of the die with some Flitz and a drill and bore mop. I had to do this to a Hornady die, and really don't like them.